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[Mania Guidelines] Remove all "Additional Guidelines if Normal/Hard is used as lowest difficulty

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Topic Starter
Feerum
Basically what the title said. The RC is now in affect for some times. Over this time i noticed that these guidelines get paid less to no attention at all. Additionally i think they give some limitations in mapping styles which let the difficulties look less what they actually should. A Normal and a Hard. The set of rules and guidelines we already have for both of these difficulties should be enough.

Last but not least i noticed that Modder and even some BNs mix them up and use the normal guidelines in their modding, despite the additional guidelines should apply. This will make everyone's life simply easier.

Therefore here my suggestion:

We will remove following Guidelines from the Ranking Criteria:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

If a Normal difficulty is required and used as the lowest difficulty of a beatmapset, it should also follow these guidelines:

- Consecutive 1/4 snaps should only be three notes long. More dense rhythms are not appropriate for the lowest difficulty of a beatmapset.

Ranking Criteria wrote:

If a Hard difficulty is required and used as the lowest difficulty of a beatmapset, it should also follow these guidelines:

- Chords within streams are discouraged. The density of these patterns is often too difficult for players of this skill level, especially when used on the lowest difficulty of a beatmap set. However, using a chord at the beginning/end of a stream is fine.

- Short-term slider velocity changes should be used cautiously. Changes should only happen for sections of different pacings and the slider velocity should not be drastically variable.
Opinions are welcome! Although i doubt there will be a lot of voice against removing these guidelines but if, feel free to say so!
MJH
yes!

Edit: and I thought it only works to widen the gap and deprive players of a room for improvement.
FAMoss
totally fine.
Davvy
These guidelines are mainly in place because when a hard or normal is used as the lowest difficulty they should be made accessible towards lower-end players from what I understand. My argument why they shouldn't be in place is because of how these difficulties just becomes watered down hards or normals while still having the same general density as a hard or normal, causing the mapping to become superficial in some cases. There's still plenty of content for lower-end players, and since these difficulties are a hard or a normal they should abide by the same constraints, and not just additional constraints on top since it should be decided by the mapper, modder and BN, not rules, just how difficult the normal or hard should be.
Madoka2574
Well I'm neutral on this issue but i'd like to say a little based on the purpose of the RC.

To be brief, I think the additional RC for Normal can be kept and that of Hard should be removed.

Usually RC is used to limit the actual difficulty of a map so that it fits players on this level. Also it is intended to have players of all levels enjoy a set.

In normal spread, the lowest diff can be Easy or Normal which is optional. If u want newbie players to be able to play this set, making Normal easier is necessary.

But when will there be Hard as the lowest diff? Yeah it is when the duration is above 3:30. RC has become more lenient on spread if the duration is longer. The restriction is to limit the difficulty at Hard. It is intended for players at Hard level, not something for newbies, so it is enough to apply normal guidelines of Hard.
Aruel
I strongly agree that normal, hard both will be removed,
these guidelines are usually intended to provide better access to lower-skill players, but I think this additional guideline just widens the gap between higher difficulty(ex, normal with additional guideline -> just hard), but also normal guidelines give good access to lower-skill players already
in conclusion, additional guideline has no meaning for existence for me
lenpai
onion here

removal of the guideline would allow for a more organic diff spread where the highest diff is a higher end insane

by enforcing lowest diff guidelines something that could be a:
higher end normal -> higher end hard -> high end insane

would have to be a:
normal -> lower end hard -> higher end hard -> higher end insane

in the same vein, this has been an effect of observing lowest diff hard guidelines such that:
lower end hard -> high end insane

which produces a giant difficulty gap

tl;dr

yes for more organic diffculty spreading
Arzenvald
at the first, i thought the guidelines are here to make some sort of standardization of osu!mania charts, especially on the lower end, but yeeeeeeaaaaaahhhh it mostly doesn't work

as long as the lowest difficulty of the set being mapped accordingly to its difficulty target, and stays accessible for the target audience, the removal of guidelines should be alright
Topic Starter
Feerum

Madoka2574 wrote:

[...]In normal spread, the lowest diff can be Easy or Normal which is optional. If u want newbie players to be able to play this set, making Normal easier is necessary. [...]
If you want to make your map accessible for newbies, i don't see any problem in just mapping the spread starting from the Easy instead of making an "easier Normal".

And as you said, it's pmuch optional and every mapper can decide that for themselves :)

HOWEVER, since no one was really against this change, i made a pull request to apply it soon to the RC:
https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/4466
Topic Starter
Feerum
This change is now merged and in effect immediately
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