Proposal: A mapper should be able to justify their BG like any other element in their map, as it is in fact a part of the map. Although this is usually enforced already, nowhere in the ranking criteria does it specify that BGs should fit the song. Making a guideline detailing this is what i propose here.

Why: As said BGs are part of the map. Most of the ranking section follows this logic, but too many BGs are replaced by a generic anime-girl-in-swimsuit BG even if it barely/doesnt whatsoever fit with the song.
Examples:
beatmapsets/624963#osu/1317124
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/754277#osu/1588075
beatmapsets/1031877#mania/2157779
Now you might say, "oh these are just generic backgrounds", and that is what i think is the issue. A little more thought into selection of background is something i think is quite important. The image used doesnt even have to directly relate with the song, as long as it fits thematically with the song. An example would be beatmapsets/817667#osu/1714637 this, where the BG depicting a whale doesnt have much to do with the song, but drives in the same eerie feeling that the song does. As for the three examples provided where i believe it doesnt fit, you have "Extra Mode", where other ranked versions also use an anime girl BG, however those seem to fit better thematically (although this is also vague). For "The Commanders", the background is really unfitting, having a hardstyle song with almost no lyrics (and all lyrics are english, as well as more like a voiceover than singing), and about 80% of the lyrics are male as well, have this kind of BG seems illogical. On another note, the BG itself is already a bit questionable for ANY song, but thats a whole other issue, which is already in the ranking criteria.
For the third song, "You're Beautiful", i also dont see how two anime girls with a rifle fit with the song, a purely electronic song.

Even if you dont agree with what i consider to be unfitting backgrounds, i'd like to hear if there are any arguments AGAINST placing a guideline in the ranking criteria about BGs having to fit with the song. This is also not just about anime BGs, although in most cases if a BG is unfitting, it is because people just slapped an anime girl in the BG and called it a day. I'm sure there are cases where an anime BG would have been more fitting for a song, but that is not the discussion taking place either.

TL;DR add a guideline to the ranking criteria specifying that BGs should be fitting with the song, however subjective this guideline may be.

Additional note, if im wrong and there already is a guideline i apologize, but from my searching i could not find one anywhere stating this.

I understand what you're coming from, but what metric should be consider to even begin with?

Let's take *Feel Seasickness...* by Camellia for example, do you think a random bg with a loli and and big bowl of ramen should be considered fitting with the song? If it's not then I have to say that this is what literally is going on in the bg Konami provided for the song, which means it's still fitting.

And I'm not even mentioning about those EDM repost channels, who just slaps any bg into the song as long as they just fit the theme of the music, no matter if it's anime or realistic or whatever.

If the guideline is to make sure the BG fit the "theme" of the song? Sure go ahead. But the whole BG? Then that's a big -1 from me here.

+1 although what would be hard for BN's is specifying does it really fit the song it's not like there is and can be something that measures if It fits the song or not that's why I think this proposal wouldn't work well

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

I understand what you're coming from, but what metric should be consider to even begin with?

Let's take *Feel Seasickness...* by Camellia for example, do you think a random bg with a loli and and big bowl of ramen should be considered fitting with the song? If it's not then I have to say that this is what literally is going on in the bg Konami provided for the song, which means it's still fitting.

And I'm not even mentioning about those EDM repost channels, who just slaps any bg into the song as long as they just fit the theme of the music, no matter if it's anime or realistic or whatever.

If the guideline is to make sure the BG fit the "theme" of the song? Sure go ahead. But the whole BG? Then that's a big -1 from me here.

If its provided by THE OFFICIAL SOURCE for the song then it is fitting, even if its a bit weird for the song. Im talking about when a map has a completely unrelated BG, both in terms the BG not coming from the same source, and the BG not having anything to do with the song, or the music video for the song, the album, etc. If its completely unrelated (which your example WOULDNT be), then it should be up for getting vetoed and forced for BG changes (if ofc veto mediation agrees).

Reforms Expert wrote:

+1 although what would be hard for BN's is specifying does it really fit the song it's not like there is and can be something that measures if It fits the song or not that's why I think this proposal wouldn't work well

There are loads of ranking criteria guidelines that are highly subjective, especially the ones in place about BGs right now (e.g. what is considered NSFW, what isnt), in the same vein this would be on a case by case basis and be enforced by individual BNs who care, and who feel that a BG doesnt fit with the song enough to justify it being the BG for the map.

Getting veto'd for unfitting BG? Do dramas about map being veto'ed for having a difficulty name that's somehow related to the song and for having a BG edited to match the song not enough??? (I'm not being unironic, those dramas actually happened)

NSFW content is subjective, yes, but it still has a clear boundary between those contents. Now what are those barriers between bg that is fitting with the song and bg that isn't? Other rhythm games can even make their own bg that is completely derailed the original art the original author provided but still highly acceptable by majority of players (Like what Phigros has done with tons of songs like End Me, Reimei or Orthodox, or Dynamix with even more songs). If following your logic, then Cheri's self-made bg for her maps should be unranked too, but no one has going against to that afaik.

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

Getting veto'd for unfitting BG? Do dramas about map being veto'ed for having a difficulty name that's somehow related to the song and for having a BG edited to match the song not enough??? (I'm not being unironic, those dramas actually happened)

NSFW content is subjective, yes, but it still has a clear boundary between those contents. Now what are those barriers between bg that is fitting with the song and bg that isn't? Other rhythm games can even make their own bg that is completely derailed the original art the original author provided but still highly acceptable by majority of players (Like what Phigros has done with tons of songs like End Me, Reimei or Orthodox, or Dynamix with even more songs). If following your logic, then Cheri's self-made bg for her maps should be unranked too, but no one has going against to that afaik.

What? Cheri's backgrounds arent unfitting thematically. Shuu no Hazama gives a similar feeling to the song, Snow day literally has a christmas-y BG, etc.
As for your point about other rhythm games, this is osu! not other rhythm games. what they do has nothing to do with what osu! does.
About the subjective part, yes that is subjective. I am still advocating for atleast a MENTION of BGs fitting with the song in SOME WAY, and that the mapper should be able to argue FOR THEIR BACKGROUND, in the same way a mapper would argue for NOT APPLYING A MOD on their map, if someone brings the BG up as an issue

Would say that i'm half agree, the lack of "definition" on what is fitting could become a big debate in each individual mapset due to how people resonate with the song and the background differently, since, i believe choosing a background that fits the mood of the song is kinda instinct-based. But, i will argue that no one will be dumb enough to put anime lolis in the dragonforce song.

This maybe could also prevent some lazy/lackluster "meme edits" background to go through ranked section as well, if anyone aware of this mapset beatmapsets/1220099#mania/2538159 that once had a "creepy smile" edit to it and almost passed because "there are no rules that prevent it". the VCC doesnt really cover that.

Rivals_7 wrote:

Would say that i'm half agree, the lack of "definition" on what is fitting could become a big debate in each individual mapset due to how people resonate with the song and the background differently, since, i believe choosing a background that fits the mood of the song is kinda instinct-based. But, i will argue that no one will be dumb enough to put anime lolis in the dragonforce song.

This maybe could also prevent some lazy/lackluster "meme edits" background to go through ranked section as well, if anyone aware of this mapset beatmapsets/1220099#mania/2538159 that once had a "creepy smile" edit to it and almost passed because "there are no rules that prevent it". the VCC doesnt really cover that.

It is exactly for edge cases like these, where the BG is pretty evidently unfitting. Im not saying the 3 examples i brought up would have to be changed if this guideline gets implemented, but that was to spark debate, as i think more fitting BGs could have been chosen for those 3 ranked maps.
It serves exactly as a baseline to prevent those meme edits you mention, as well as someone trying to throw a loli BG on dragonforce songs, and depending on how severe or lenient the guideline is, maybe more than that could be changed as well.
This purely serves to give BN/NAT/GMT members reasonable grounds to force a change or discuss wether a BG needs a change, because as it is by nature subjective, this atleast allows them to have a good reason to try and challenge a background they deem unfitting.

The only cases where such a guideline could be applied are maps that use backgrounds of media which are not related to the song in any way because that would be misleading. Everything else should be up to the mapper and not regulated by the RC because you just can't define what fits and what doesn't. I think the examples that were linked are perfectly fine and mappers should never be forced to change their background unless it's considered explicit content (or the case mentioned above).

Well technically manga/anime fits with the artist of the song (USAO and lapix) based on their previous releases. So if there's no official art for the song that differs a ton I'd say it's fine to use any piece that fits the role if it helps the map. For example, none of the girls in those backgrounds you've mentioned don't feel ominous. Like a battle is going to happen, and this is something that would fit it.

And I'd disagree with the whale background, I don't think it fits at all with the song, it just makes me wonder "what does this song have to do with a whale." (But i do see where they are coming from abstractly) So nothing apparently, but it's still kept because people are gonna disagree.

As for the actual rule, I thought it was one of those rules that didn't have to be said. It's like as essential to mapping to the song as having an appropriate background.

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

The only cases where such a guideline could be applied are maps that use backgrounds of media which are not related to the song in any way because that would be misleading. Everything else should be up to the mapper and not regulated by the RC because you just can't define what fits and what doesn't. I think the examples that were linked are perfectly fine and mappers should never be forced to change their background unless it's considered explicit content (or the case mentioned above).

I'm a little late, but mostly this take. Like, for instance, if you were mapping a song from a specific anime, it would only make sense to use a background from that anime. I think that's completely reasonable for an instance like that. -But for independent songs that aren't attached to anything, don't you think it would be a bit limiting or ambiguous as to only allow a specific type of background for those songs?

Like, what if someone was mapping an EDM song that had nothing to do with any source material? What is the criteria of the background they should use? Only the cover art? What if multiple songs from the album got mapped? They'd all look identical in the beatmap listings until you played them.

I can understand the concerns with this proposal, but it isn't always easy to find the 'exact' fitting art for certain songs, and it does make sense why people tend to pick art that's attractive or pops, but isn't necessarily 100% fitting. I think that a requirement like this would either be too strict, or too ambiguous. It's best just to leave the only BG requirement as being PG.

It'd be nice to have fitting art 100% of the time, but maybe it isn't always realistic.

there are tons of bgs that don't have anything to do with the song or map across all eras of osu and nobody really cares. i get the concern but it seems out-of-touch with community expectation

fwiw, if you think a map can be improved by having a more "fitting" background, you (and anyone else) can leave a mod on the map suggesting to change it. I don't think this is necessary as an RC guideline.

i don't think it's reasonable to expect every bg to have a clear connection to the song. i pick backgrounds based on mood of the song, which isn't something the ranking criteria can really define because that interpretation is different between people

clayton wrote:

fwiw, if you think a map can be improved by having a more "fitting" background, you (and anyone else) can leave a mod on the map suggesting to change it. I don't think this is necessary as an RC guideline.

this is also important

gonna close