So, let's make multiplayer matches a little more interesting and competitive!

This idea is basically being able to make a special multiplayer room which could work as a mini-tournament. Basically, the player getting the lowest score out of everyone gets eliminated, he won't be kicked out of the room but marked as a player who's out of the game and can't participate anymore*, though he can stay to read chat, see results and maybe even somehow spectate how the game is going. This "tournament" ends when there is only one player remaining, thus he is declared as the winner.

*By participate I mean, it would be good if these players who are already out of the tournament can keep playing the maps w/o participating on the tournament itself. This should be up to them, if they prefer to spectate and talk that should be fine, but if they get bored and feel like playing w/o leaving the room then it'd be nice if they could participate on the maps themselves but not get listed together with the other players (maybe having their scores marked as "Disqualified" (where you get the Failed thing) and ranked below everyone (even players who have failed). Just so participants won't get confused between who are actually playing and who are already out.

When the tournament starts, no more players can join the room until the tournament has ended. The tournament can't start unless you have 3 players on the room. Maps will always be chosen by the one hosting the room, thought it would be ideal if all the maps could be selected before even starting the tournament since you could agree with all players if those maps are fine and then the tournament would start (to avoid having any disagreement after starting, like the host picking some ridiculous/troll map). But I don't know how hard it would be to code this. If this thing about having the ability to pick every map before even starting is possible, being able to select mods for each map (and having everyone agree on this) would be a good idea too, just to make it more interesting, could work all no-mod anyways (to begin with and try this out).

Having a multiplayer-spectator mode for this would be cool, something like what is proposed here: t/112909. Being able to spectate like this after losing (thus w/o leaving the room) would be great, so people losing (and waiting to play another tourney) won't need to quit and then rejoin.

That's pretty much it. This could work for TAG playing too or team playing. Guess this could make MPs a little more interesting and fun, rather than just playing the same map as some other guy at the same time.

There are a lot of details that make this extremely complicated to do. I suppose this could be ignored for starters. Like just getting a room, 3-8 players join, tournament starts, loser gets kicked out and other players keep playing until it finishes, maps get picked on the run by host.

While we're at it, we should raise the room cap. I'm sick of just 8 people per room.... Intervals that are divisible into nice tourney friendly brackets would be cool. We could even arrange OWC to work in one whole sitting.

Inb4 64 players with [no map]... okay maybe that isn't such a good idea.

An alternative to this would be:

Having 1 or 2 official rooms where the tourney is neverending. This means whenever a player loses, a new one comes up. For this people should be able to request a slot and then get queued on a waiting list. When their turn comes, they will get an invitation by BanchoBot to join the room, which expires after 30 seconds and then if the player doesn't respond to the invitation the next one on the list will get invited. Not proposing this for random rooms since I can't see lots of players joining there, having 1 or 2 rooms for this (which are there 24/7) would make it nice maybe for good players who just want some fun to go there and play against others, on some nice MP matches, being able to challenge each other on real time.

Problems with this idea:

1- Maps will get picked on the moment, player getting #1 score on the last map will get the ability to pick the next map. He can pass that privilege to any other player if he desires. Problem with this is I can see some kids getting there and picking troll maps just to annoy people. For this there could be some kind of vote system to avoid this (like rejecting a map or changing room's "host"). But then again this could be abused by a few kids getting in the room, like just get 2 or 3 friends there and you could troll the room pretty much 24/7 if you want. I can't think of a solution to this.

2- TONS OF BAD PLAYERS JOINING. This would of course work for at least decent players, but then you could end up getting a neverending wait to join because of rank #983589 players who just randomly join, play and quit after 10 seconds because they failed the map. Yes, you do get a lot of those on common multiplayer rooms, it usually doesn't matter, but this here would be a problem since players really willing to play would have to wait forever to join because of these players who just join and quit.

3- People could troll and ruin the whole room forever. Having an AFK host would be enough, or even AFK players. This would be solved by just adding some time-limit like 2 minutes max for picking and starting the match. Then you'd get problems about people not having the map, and then I can't really think of any idea for this. Just that only ranked maps should be allowed here and that the wait might be extended by 90 or 120 seconds after the map is decided.

I love both your original and alternative ideas! The original idea has a few obstacles that needs to be sorted out first (eg multiplayer spectating) so it's hard to comment. I can try to provide some ideas for the alternatives using arcade games as examples:

Wishy wrote:

An alternative to this would be:

Having 1 or 2 official rooms where the tourney is neverending. This means whenever a player loses, a new one comes up. For this people should be able to request a slot and then get queued on a waiting list. When their turn comes, they will get an invitation by BanchoBot to join the room, which expires after 30 seconds and then if the player doesn't respond to the invitation the next one on the list will get invited. Not proposing this for random rooms since I can't see lots of players joining there, having 1 or 2 rooms for this (which are there 24/7) would make it nice maybe for good players who just want some fun to go there and play against others, on some nice MP matches, being able to challenge each other on real time.

This is like the classic "King of the Hills" you see at the arcade (eg Street Fighter) or at the pool table. This should work well if you can keep the turnover high. A basic ladder point system may work in this case.

Assuming the room has an 8-Player limit, plus another 30 on the waiting list. For each player who joins the room they get 2 (ladder) points.

After each song the ladder points are adjusted depending on how you fared, eg:
1st = +2
2nd = +1
3rd = 0
4th to 6th = -1
7th = -2
8th = -3

When a player's ladder point becomes negative he'll be kicked out of the game.

So in order to stay in the game a player must constantly be in the top 3. For a player who hasnt gained any extra point since joining the game, he will lose immediately if he becomes the 8th. I think this system should speed up the turnover, but of course these are just my rough idea and the numbers can be tweaked to suit.

Wishy wrote:

Problems with this idea:

1- Maps will get picked on the moment, player getting #1 score on the last map will get the ability to pick the next map. He can pass that privilege to any other player if he desires. Problem with this is I can see some kids getting there and picking troll maps just to annoy people. For this there could be some kind of vote system to avoid this (like rejecting a map or changing room's "host"). But then again this could be abused by a few kids getting in the room, like just get 2 or 3 friends there and you could troll the room pretty much 24/7 if you want. I can't think of a solution to this.

If we use Street Fighter (arcade) as example: the winner cannot change his character, but the challenger gets to pick his. I think since the winner already got +2 (ladder) points, it's only fair for new comers to choose the next song. If there are more than 1 new comers joining the room (eg 3 people got eliminated in the last map), the first new comer joining gets to pick the song. I'll explain how the list work in the answer to your next problem.

Wishy wrote:

2- TONS OF BAD PLAYERS JOINING. This would of course work for at least decent players, but then you could end up getting a neverending wait to join because of rank #983589 players who just randomly join, play and quit after 10 seconds because they failed the map. Yes, you do get a lot of those on common multiplayer rooms, it usually doesn't matter, but this here would be a problem since players really willing to play would have to wait forever to join because of these players who just join and quit.

Continuing from previous example, let's assume that 3 slots has become available after a song and there're 30 people on the waiting list. The top 3 players in the waiting list will be provided with a "Join Game" and they will have only have 20s to click the "Join Game" button. They will forfeit their position in the cue and name removed from the waiting list when the time is up; the next player in the cue will then be offered the "Join Game" button. It is the first player to click the "Join Game" button that gets to choose the next song. Just to clarify, a player's position in the cue is solely on a "First Come First Served" basis, ie Time of Joining only.

Wishy wrote:

3- People could troll and ruin the whole room forever. Having an AFK host would be enough, or even AFK players. This would be solved by just adding some time-limit like 2 minutes max for picking and starting the match. Then you'd get problems about people not having the map, and then I can't really think of any idea for this. Just that only ranked maps should be allowed here and that the wait might be extended by 90 or 120 seconds after the map is decided.

Let's stick to the same arcade system. The new comer will have 60s to choose a song (this is comparable to arcade DDR). If the host fail to choose the song in time, the system will automatically ramdom the next song (as if F2 is pressed).

60s may seem very short but please take into consideration that with my proposed "new comer picks next map" system, the host would have plenty of time to think about what map to play when he gets to join the room. So in a sense 60s is a lot of time already. I think even 30/45s might work.


In addition to the above, I think it'll be neat if the (ladder) point can be displayed next to each player's ID. It will be extra cool if the winner can have a "XXX Wins In A Row!" displayed next to his ID. Just like Street Fighter lol

I'm just trying to pitch in some ideas, what do you guys think?

EDIT: I just realised that there's a lot to read after posting, apologies in advance!

bahamut_2000 wrote:

This is like the classic "King of the Hills" you see at the arcade (eg Street Fighter) or at the pool table. This should work well if you can keep the turnover high. A basic ladder point system may work in this case.

Assuming the room has an 8-Player limit, plus another 30 on the waiting list. For each player who joins the room they get 2 (ladder) points.

After each song the ladder points are adjusted depending on how you fared, eg:
1st = +2
2nd = +1
3rd = 0
4th to 6th = -1
7th = -2
8th = -3

When a player's ladder point becomes negative he'll be kicked out of the game.

So in order to stay in the game a player must constantly be in the top 3. For a player who hasnt gained any extra point since joining the game, he will lose immediately if he becomes the 8th. I think this system should speed up the turnover, but of course these are just my rough idea and the numbers can be tweaked to suit.

I think this is great and yeah, "don't vote on numbers", numbers could be changed a little bit and yeah this is a great idea.

If we use Street Fighter (arcade) as example: the winner cannot change his character, but the challenger gets to pick his. I think since the winner already got +2 (ladder) points, it's only fair for new comers to choose the next song. If there are more than 1 new comers joining the room (eg 3 people got eliminated in the last map), the first new comer joining gets to pick the song. I'll explain how the list work in the answer to your next problem.

Thing about this is that you can get a newbie join and pick whatever shit he wants just to troll or just to see pros play impossible crap. This is not fun at all and I can see this happen a lot. I mean players joining with ideas not related to actually playing.

Continuing from previous example, let's assume that 3 slots has become available after a song and there're 30 people on the waiting list. The top 3 players in the waiting list will be provided with a "Join Game" and they will have only have 20s to click the "Join Game" button. They will forfeit their position in the cue and name removed from the waiting list when the time is up; the next player in the cue will then be offered the "Join Game" button. It is the first player to click the "Join Game" button that gets to choose the next song.

Even when your idea is good, you will still get tons of random_38535, rank #895828, plays 300, trying to join those rooms. Which results on long waits for everyone else wanting to actually play, and yeah those players also join w/o really having any map, don't even know a thing about the game since they are not really active/don't care. If you try random rooms on multiplayer you will see MANY of those. Just host any popular song, add DT, you will get TONS of #539558 players joining (or even #0), playing for 5 seconds and leaving. Of course, it's quite normal to get random players who don't even have the map and got shitty internet connections meaning eternal waits. I can't think of any way to avoid this honestly, maybe putting some limit@rank, like only top 5k or so. And no, I'd like to avoid the possibility of having jdipowq_42198 rank #555555 picking a map.

Let's stick to the same arcade system. The new comer will have 60s to choose a song (this is comparable to arcade DDR). If the host fail to choose the song in time, the system will automatically ramdom the next song (as if F2 is pressed).

60s may seem very short but please take into consideration that with my proposed "new comer picks next map" system, the host would have plenty of time to think about what map to play when he gets to join the room. So in a sense 60s is a lot of time already. I think even 30/45s might work.

I support the time limit but not the solution you are proposing is bad. Many players have TONS of maps, I personally have over twenty thousand maps. Most of them are either terrible bad maps or just very easy. I mean, out of every ranked mapset you usually get just one insane difficulty and the rest are just a joke for any good player, so if a newcomer can't make up his mind in that minute, you're highly likely to get a bad map or just a very easy one which everyone will get bored to hell with. Let's not even talk about a 40 min map getting randomed.

Then again, I can't think of anything to avoid the fact that I may join the room and just pick paraparamax, start the game and quit, inb4 room is ruined for 30 minutes. I'd prefer host being randomed between #1-#4 players (meaning last map's best scores, not higher points) since it's safer. And then again getting the option to vote if some maps should be rejected and host privileges randomed between #1-#4 again excluding the one who just had it. I can just go and pick paraparamax before leaving for the sake of trolling and ruin everyone's game, then if there was some voting system where 5 votes could force change that it could be solved.

In addition to the above, I think it'll be neat if the (ladder) point can be displayed next to each player's ID. It will be extra cool if the winner can have a "XXX Wins In A Row!" displayed next to his ID. Just like Street Fighter lol

I'm just trying to pitch in some ideas, what do you guys think?

EDIT: I just realised that there's a lot to read after posting, apologies in advance!

These are fine.

lol the posts are getting too long to quote so I wont.

I see where you're coming from regarding random/troll people joining the game. And yeah it's not easy to solve. This may take some thinking time.

To help solve some of the problems for time being, I think we can make it so that anyone can start a new room with this new game mode (instead of 2-3 perma room). This should somewhat ease the congestion problem, and hopefully some troll problem (trolled room dies out over time etc but no guarantee).

Also the room can be designated a Star Rating when it is first hosted (this will have to be a selectable option in the New Game dialogue). People can only pick maps of that Star Rating as others are locked out. The biggest problem I see in this is the 5-Star maps, as current difficulty levels vary too much from map to map. Someone will have to come up with a better solution for this I suppose.

Aaaaaahhh long consecutive blocks of text >.<

Yeah it'd be nice to have a multiplayer arena.

bahamut_2000 wrote:

lol the posts are getting too long to quote so I wont.

I see where you're coming from regarding random/troll people joining the game. And yeah it's not easy to solve. This may take some thinking time.

To help solve some of the problems for time being, I think we can make it so that anyone can start a new room with this new game mode (instead of 2-3 perma room). This should somewhat ease the congestion problem, and hopefully some troll problem (trolled room dies out over time etc but no guarantee).

Also the room can be designated a Star Rating when it is first hosted (this will have to be a selectable option in the New Game dialogue). People can only pick maps of that Star Rating as others are locked out. The biggest problem I see in this is the 5-Star maps, as current difficulty levels vary too much from map to map. Someone will have to come up with a better solution for this I suppose.

Yeah posts are getting way too long lol.

Trolling is always a problem.

The alternative idea is pretty much the same as the first just more developed and thought for big masses of players, guess we can just think of this if the original one gets implemented to begin with.

And about the map pretty much the same as before, we don't really need to think about this since the original idea is already quite complicated to implement I guess.

that's a cool idea.

tl;dr, but I think that's a nice idea.

Wishy wrote:

Problems with this idea:

1- Maps will get picked on the moment, player getting #1 score on the last map will get the ability to pick the next map. He can pass that privilege to any other player if he desires. Problem with this is I can see some kids getting there and picking troll maps just to annoy people. For this there could be some kind of vote system to avoid this (like rejecting a map or changing room's "host"). But then again this could be abused by a few kids getting in the room, like just get 2 or 3 friends there and you could troll the room pretty much 24/7 if you want. I can't think of a solution to this.

2- TONS OF BAD PLAYERS JOINING. This would of course work for at least decent players, but then you could end up getting a neverending wait to join because of rank #983589 players who just randomly join, play and quit after 10 seconds because they failed the map. Yes, you do get a lot of those on common multiplayer rooms, it usually doesn't matter, but this here would be a problem since players really willing to play would have to wait forever to join because of these players who just join and quit.

3- People could troll and ruin the whole room forever. Having an AFK host would be enough, or even AFK players. This would be solved by just adding some time-limit like 2 minutes max for picking and starting the match. Then you'd get problems about people not having the map, and then I can't really think of any idea for this. Just that only ranked maps should be allowed here and that the wait might be extended by 90 or 120 seconds after the map is decided.

How about:
1. The map gets picked inbefore the mini tournament starts (in other words, no changing beatmaps throughout the game) with either every player picks a map, or the host picks, or even randomized (Guess we'll need a difficulty filter for this one)
2. I have no idea on the second problem here. But I recall that I have seen a "Multiplayer Quit Rate" (correct me if I'm wrong) and that might help. For a more ridiculous idea, why not decrease one's PP if they leave a game #BadIdea
3. Well... with the first point stated above, guess the troll problem is resolved...

I'd support if i have stars.. it's been a few months and I haven't got any stars

Interesting idea.

Would be great if there was a marathon mode along with this to speed up matches-

Host picks a play list and options (8 songs, bottom player gets null from the match / 4 songs, bottom 2 players get null)
All players have maps and ready up
Everyone plays all songs (there will be the result screen, but next map will play when everyone hits a button for ready)
Players that leave will take up the bottom slots (Catch is that these rooms will have to be hidden after the playlist starts)

Sounds like fun.

COOL! +2