There is something i never liked about this new system of Starring.
Stars can be given freely and i think this is not a step to what we wanted to change about the previous system.
Let me explain:
Many maps have lots of stars because users think that map is good, but how many of those stard are given upon request of the mapper? I saw many people giving stars without even looking at the map they gave the star to (and sometimes the map sucked).
Result -> That map goes up in priority.
I also saw maps completely ignored because the mapper was a newbie (and so he didn't know anybody here in the game) when maps were actually well made.
Result -> map goes down in priority.

This isn't what we wanted. We were trying to search a system to prioritize well made maps, not "most known" maps.

So here's a suggestion:
The user has to pay 1 Kudosu to give a Star to a map.

I think this will have several advantages:
- Users will star only after modding and this will increase their modding experience (and we'll have
better and better modding and maps by users).
- Even if spending a Kudosu to star a map, if their modding was good they will receive another kudosu (so they actually spent nothing by starring that map).
- Stars will have a greater meaning and maps with more stars will surely be better (or older) than maps with less stars.
- Only good maps will receive stars (there won't be any more requests like "Can you star my map?").

The main problem is: only users that experienced modding will give stars. I know this can be something someone won't like, but i think this will have some good points, because:
User wants to mod or star maps -> User will learn how to mod -> User will mod maps -> User will get kudosu and more knowledge of modding -> User will star good maps.

Please let me know about what you think about this idea.
Any suggestions or critics are welcome.

Thanks for reading

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

There is something i never liked about this new system of Starring.
Stars can be given freely and i think this is not a step to what we wanted to change about the previous system.
Let me explain:
Many maps have lots of stars because users think that map is good, but how many of those stard are given upon request of the mapper? I saw many people giving stars without even looking at the map they gave the star to (and sometimes the map sucked).
Result -> That map goes up in priority.
I also saw maps completely ignored because the mapper was a newbie (and so he didn't know anybody here in the game) when maps were actually well made.
Result -> map goes down in priority.

This isn't what we wanted. We were trying to search a system to prioritize well made maps, not "most known" maps.

So here's a suggestion:
The user has to pay 1 Kudosu to give a Star to a map.

I think this will have several advantages:
- Users will star only after modding and this will increase their modding experience (and we'll have
better and better modding and maps by users).
- Even if spending a Kudosu to star a map, if their modding was good they will receive another kudosu (so they actually spent nothing by starring that map).
- Stars will have a greater meaning and maps with more stars will surely be better (or older) than maps with less stars.
- Only good maps will receive stars (there won't be any more requests like "Can you star my map?").

The main problem is: only users that experienced modding will give stars. I know this can be something someone won't like, but i think this will have some good points, because:
User wants to mod or star maps -> User will learn how to mod -> User will mod maps -> User will get kudosu and more knowledge of modding -> User will star good maps.

Please let me know about what you think about this idea.
Any suggestions or critics are welcome.

Thanks for reading

Good Idea O_O

I quote you

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

I saw many people giving stars without even looking at the map they gave the star to (and sometimes the map sucked).

While it is the individual's choice if they want to be careless and stupid, I honestly don't see why anyone would do this. Is giving stars to someone else's map currently free? (I just read the thread, yes it is) Because I think that might need to be changed. We'd been discussing this a while ago. One of the arguments to not just jumping on board with this is that "people are selfish" and at that rate the flow of stars being attributed to beatmaps would slow down, and the SP+30 maps wouldn't be as common. Personally, I'm fine with this. I think it's a good idea, because it gives more meaning to them.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

I also saw maps completely ignored because the mapper was a newbie (and so he didn't know anybody here in the game) when maps were actually well made.
Result -> map goes down in priority.

This is actually kind of what is intended in some sense. The idea is to encourage new mappers to go out and mod other people's beatmaps. They may not be good at it first, but they will improve as they do it more, and also get a better understanding of what constitutes a good beatmap. They can thus improve their own maps, use kudosu gathered from the quest for improvement on these maps, and become more well-known.

So yeah costing stars for other maps may inevitably prove beneficial. Consider that, if you like a map and want to give it a star, but you're too cheap/selfish to sacrifice your own map...you'll probably get that kudosu back if you do a good job modding the map you like.

I agree that charging kudosu for stars would make the star system more effective; starred maps would actually MEAN something since the one starring it would have had to have some mapping experience. The only problem I see with this though is that yes, you would get your kudosu back if you modded & starred a map, but that still means that you end up with 0 kudosu from that mod, which will likely discourage people from doing it.

I here's what I would suggest:
Mod post: +2 kudosu
Mod post (recently unmodded): +3 kudosu
Star: -1 kudosu
Self-star: not exactly sure how these should be handled, but maybe -2 kudosu for +1 priority?

Either that or keep the system how it is and make stars -0.5 kudosu, but I dunno if we want to get into decimals

This suggestion opens up possibilities, as like any other suggestions. Let me break down what I have discovered about this suggestion:

1. Less kudosu stars will be given out (or reluctantly if the reverse happens). This will have either a negative or positive impact on pending maps, of which is totally unclear until we actually see for ourselves. We might be able to see fewer high-priority maps, but we might also see more low-priority ones. The point of giving out kudosu stars to maps other than your own is to support those maps and approve their quality.

2. Modders are discouraged to send out easy kudosu stars. It might make them more hesitant to star maps, but if very good reasons are present for the modders to use as logical basis, then we can expect higher-quality maps from highly-starred maps (remember that though the two are interrelated to each other, they do not always pertain to a single type of map).

In my opinion, I would find a better restriction for such a potentially-abusive feature. Making modders spend kudosu just to give out support to something they will not directly benefit from might cause some reluctancy in modding.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

I saw many people giving stars without even looking at the map they gave the star to (and sometimes the map sucked).

can you give some examples to back this up?

1 kudosu per star doesn't help - they just have to make a post first.

I think this is kind of taking away from the whole idea of attention going to stuff people like and want to see ranked.

I'm sorry, but I don't like this idea, not at all. I don't like the idea of losing kudosu for saying, "I like this map, it's great, and I want to see it ranked."

As well, you missed the part where stars from BATs are worth a healthy +3 in priority. I mean, it's still us starring stuff, and still us saying "This is an awesome map and I want to see this get ranked", just like with regular modders. But it's worth three times as much as the regular modder. So what happens there?

An64fan wrote:

I think this is kind of taking away from the whole idea of attention going to stuff people like and want to see ranked.

I'm sorry, but I don't like this idea, not at all. I don't like the idea of losing kudosu for saying, "I like this map, it's great, and I want to see it ranked."

As well, you missed the part where stars from BATs are worth a healthy +3 in priority. I mean, it's still us starring stuff, and still us saying "This is an awesome map and I want to see this get ranked", just like with regular modders. But it's worth three times as much as the regular modder. So what happens there?

Hmm, you do have a good point. I looked at the maps in Pending with the most priority and pretty much all of them are there because of BAT stars and Kudosu stars. And if you have a lot of either of those, that means either a lot of BATs like your map, or you have a lot of experience modding other maps so you really do know what you are doing.

haha I must sound kind of wishy-washy but yeah, I'm starting to like the system we have now again. Oh well, I'll just wait and see where this thread goes I guess.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Limit the number of stars that can be given, like 1 star a month or two weeks.

Download: Yousei Teikoku - Kokou no Sousei (Saten-san) [Medi's Hyper-insanity].osu

hmm...

What if you had a set amount of stars that you could give out at the start, say 3, but you earn more of these stars along with the kudosu you earn? So for each kudosu you receive you can give out another star. I think this way is the best of both worlds - mappers with experience give out the stars, and they don't have to sacrifice their own kudosu to do it. This will also make the average user use their stars less haphazardly, so getting a star from someone will actually mean something.

Atmey wrote:

Limit the number of stars that can be given, like 1 star a month or two weeks.

I don't like this either. I mean, this is completely limiting the kind of priority that can be given out to maps and would very strictly limit how much could be given out.

The ideas posted in this thread so far, if implemented, would just discourage people from starring maps. Starring maps which you like is important. We destroy that, we pretty much crush one of the most important purposes of the kudosu system, which is to help organize the pending maps lists based on how people like it. Limiting the stars we can give out would not benefit a few maps and just make the entire system utterly useless for most of the rest.

If my opinion, if the system were to be changed, it should be changed to allow users to star maps even more. For example, saaaay... Let's say a map doesn't get kudosu very often anymore, because everyone's starred it already, or maybe not too many people have actually taken an interest in the map. The interest of a few or many individuals may still be there, right? Perhaps allowing members to star maps again if it hasn't had any boost in priority for a while. In my opinion, dedicated interest is more important than looking at a map, deciding you like it, starring it, then wandering away and never coming back to it. Dedicated interest means that people still care about it, and that's good, right?


I am being completely honest here: I think that, no matter what way you put it, limiting how much we can looooooove the maps we really do love is taking an ugly step backwards. I won't say that "I'm right" or "you're wrong", but I will take firm my position on this matter. With that, I'm more than willing to back my position up against whatever is put out into this thread, as is being seen.

End of post.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

peppy wrote:

can you give some examples to back this up?

I knew someone was going to ask me to, but until that i chose not to do so.
Anyway, here are two examples that happened in the italian community:
First: a map that received stars and wasn't worthy: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/4428
This map received a star right after the submission and another one two days later. I was disappointed by the two users before me because the map had wrong timing and beats wrongly timed and spaced.
Then: a good map form a new user: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/5733
This guy was a new user and when chatting with me in the Italian channel i got the news he made a map. I was stunned by the perfect timing and the almost perfect spacing, but he didn't know anything about the modding system.

This "starring without looking" happened (and is happening) to my maps also. And i don't like it.
Maybe you think I'm crazy, but if a user gives me a star without even looking the map, oh well, i like more not having that star at all.

That's what i'm trying to search a solution to. Maybe my first post makes you misunderstand the point of this topic (and maybe it's fault of my english):
I like the actual system because it lets users take part at the modding process, and the balance between kudosu and stars is good, but this way of giving stars has this big problem...
When something is free people are always inclined to abuse it...

I think the best way to solve this issue is that, whenever a player mods a map and recieves Kudosu from modding it, he automatically recieves one star as well.

So that player will be getting his kudosu for personal use, and Stars for... well yes giving them away to other maps.

What if the player has nothing to mod on that map?
He can always use the stars from his other mods to give away.

After all, modders are those who really know if the map has potential or not~

I think this might work.

kkthxbai.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

First: a map that received stars and wasn't worthy: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/4428
This map received a star right after the submission and another one two days later. I was disappointed by the two users before me because the map had wrong timing and beats wrongly timed and spaced.

Remember: kudosu stars are subjective to the user's opinion on the map. They might give stars to maps that you think aren't worthy, but you might've given stars to maps that they think aren't worthy as well.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

Then: a good map form a new user: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/5733
This guy was a new user and when chatting with me in the Italian channel i got the news he made a map. I was stunned by the perfect timing and the almost perfect spacing, but he didn't know anything about the modding system.

Then tell the new guy about the modding system. He'll probably get the idea in less than a minute or so, and will be able to catch on.

Like I've said before, the reason why kudosu stars have been created is for normal people to be able to give out support to maps that they think are worthy of being looked at. Before then, we could only spam links at BATs in hopes of them clicking on it, and that went to bad points occasionally. If we make it so that people will have to sacrifice one kudosu point for a star, then there will come a time where people won't just star as much (hence plotting the possibility of the system's eventual downfall)

Also, if someone tries to "cheat" the system by making people spam kudosu stars on his map (and let's assume that he did so before actually consulting modders), people will be able to figure out that the map really was not done well. Remember that in order for a map to be bubbled or ranked, a BAT will have to consult the map first.

How about this:
If someone tries to give a star to someone's map, they have to type out a very good reason why it should be starred (in a small
comment box below the reply box), this star and comment would be left undecided (unstarred) in the map
until the mods checks on that map where they could agree or disagree with that reason
and could allow or reject it from starring the map.

Would this idea be useful?

No P-Drogan,

And i assume that when you refer to "mods" you are referring to BATS.
And the only reason they check maps is because of the stars...
This idea of yours will just add more work.

I still think the idea i posted is better~

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Ekaru wrote:

@Sir Minelli: That idea doesn't work either. Why? Because if a map has nothing wrong with it and is rankable, that map couldn't get a priority boost.

Ekaru, if its rankable then you will use the stars you got from other mods to star it... did you at least read my post?

Here you go pal: What if the player has nothing to mod on that map?
He can always use the stars from his other mods to give away.

Yeah, but Minelli, listen:

Restricting how many stars we can give out or how they're given out just discourages us from slapping them onto every map we like.

And as Ekaru pointed out, if a map has nothing wrong with it, as of now, all we can really do is just say, "Well, I don't see anything wrong with this at all, but I like it, so here's some priority!" It's not a kudosu-earning post, as you weren't able to provide any helpful feedback, which completely destroys any system of spending kudosu to give priority.

Also, what would be the point of getting one kudosu per post and spending one kudosu to star the map? It seems quite the unnecessary step, you know. I mean, I star quite a bit of what I look at, because most of what I look at is of high quality and appeals to me. Very unnecessary step and one which would award for posts which are like "I like this" or "I see nothing wrong with this. Since those people might not always give stars, or may have already starred it because they looked at it before and liked it, such a system is also flawed.


By the way:

As well, you missed the part where stars from BATs are worth a healthy +3 in priority. I mean, it's still us starring stuff, and still us saying "This is an awesome map and I want to see this get ranked", just like with regular modders. But it's worth three times as much as the regular modder. So what happens there?

No one has addressed how this would be approached in any such system which has been suggested.

Well this isnt a big deal anyways, what trully matters is the Free kudosu give away.
Iv seen posts saying: "I like the map, here you go, a star"... and he gets kudosu for giving the star...

I mean.. wth is that.
That takes away my willing to mod, knowing i will bust my ass off for getting the same kudosu the other noob got just for giving out a star. The noob actually would be the one giving the kudosu for that~
Even though i trully dont mod for kudosus, i dont use the kudosus at all... i just like collecting them, not using them :3
I just mod for helping others, but when i see others getting free kudosus like that... mmm that worries me, and i bet the modders who actually use their kudosus, will find this unattractive as well.

This is a totally different subject but kinda goes along with the stars issue, just wanted to express my anger >:

Sir Minelli wrote:

Well this isnt a big deal anyways, what trully matters is the Free kudosu give away.
Iv seen posts saying: "I like the map, here you go, a star"... and he gets kudosu for giving the star...

I mean.. wth is that.
That takes away my willing to mod, knowing i will bust my ass off for getting the same kudosu the other noob got just for giving out a star. The noob actually would be the one giving the kudosu for that~
Even though i trully dont mod for kudosus, i dont use the kudosus at all... i just like collecting them, not using them :3
I just mod for helping others, but when i see others getting free kudosus like that... mmm that worries me, and i bet the modders who actually use their kudosus, will find this unattractive as well.

This is a totally different subject but kinda goes along with the stars issue, just wanted to express my anger >:

This issue is addressed here

Anyway, I decided that I like the system as it is now. It may not be perfect, but I'm really yet to hear/think of a better system so far.

Actually, I figure this place is probably as good as any to ask this.. should our criteria for giving out stars be the same as a BAT's criteria for starring a map (the non-priority type of star)?