Songs with complex timing (rubato etc.) dictates frequent use of uninherited timing points. Without using tools like "omit first bar line", the timing points can potentially generate clutter not related to the rhythm in the form of not-on-time barlines. While this is less a concern for people using skins that turn barlines off, it matters for those who play with barlines. Therefore it is a good idea to add barline-related rules to the RC.

Here is the rule from osu!taiko:

The Omit first bar line feature of an uninherited timing point must be used when a BPM change/metronome reset would hinder gameplay experience aesthetically by adding unnecessary bar lines.

Here is the suggestion by Davvy (post here with optional clause added):

Barlines must not occur two or more times per beat and then must be omited accordingly. Too many barlines in a short time-span may confuse players having barlines enabled. While not necessary, barlines should reflect the music properly and it is highly recommended to use omit barlines in case of multiple bpm-changes that properly reflects the measures of the music.

Any opinions?

If there is a reference point for what conditions to use and when to avoid using it, I think it can be a great help when mapping.

On a second thought, porting this as-is might not represent our expectations about timing well.

Here is my expectations of barline omission/metronome resets. Say that a song is in a signature of 4/4. We would then expect that every 4 beats there is a barline. When an uninherited timing point is not on a downbeat, it should have "omit first bar line" checked, and should be followed by a metronome reset on the next downbeat.

I would like to know what other people think about this.

This kind of case is rare in mania ranked pool, pretty hard to say if it is necessary enough to be added into mania RC.

But there is a big different factor between taiko and mania, called "scroll speed". Players can set the scroll speed to fit their skin or something else. This factor leads to some situations that we cant expect. Omit the bar line will probably affect the gameplay on the another side, it will bring on the countereffect maybe.

I personally don't know if we really need this. I myself was never really disturbed from too many bar lines. And i played maps with complex timings already.

But this really speaks only for myself. Could 1-2 mapping examples where it get's really annoying because of too many timing points?

Like a reference point, when does it start to be annoying. Does it need to be with every timing/signature change? etc. More detailed Information would be useful

If this really gets annoying in complex timing for other players i don't see a reason not to add it. But i would like to hear more opinions about this

From my own maps, it does get obtrusive at times when I'm not omitting barlines, good examples being my extreme timing done on maps such as this https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1109260 and this https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1082150#mania/2263580.

What hinders players the most is when multiple barline gets spammed in a single measure especially in the La Campanella example when not much is going on. So using my own timings as a reference point would be adequate for when it can get really bad for those using barlines. For example, earlier this map https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1236247#mania/2569839 didn't have any omit barlines and now with it enabled it plays more fluidly, especially the lower diffs where complex timing happens for nothing, distracting players who play with barlines.

Another reason I have for some kind of barline rule, is that it makes sense from a musical point of view. Barlines are there to indicate measure, in other words it's a direct relation to the time signature and dictates both how music is played and phrased, in rhythm games it helps us gauge timing since they occur on steady intervals.

However, I do think this rule would be a bit too restrictive, not everyone knows how to use omit barlines and not everyone has the amount of timing knowledge needed to utilize it, so I propose a different suggestion.

Barlines must not occur two or more times per beat and then must be omited accordingly. Too many barlines in a short time-span may confuse players having barlines enabled.

What this would achieve is an easy way of checking if the barline usage is improper for any bn, and would ensure a more smoother playing experience for players who use barlines on maps with complex timing. I would also add in an optional clause stating: While not necessary, barlines should reflect the music properly and it is highly recommended to use omit barlines in case of multiple bpm-changes that properly reflects the measures of the music.

You could rationalise many kinds of barline changes, maybe you want to accent something in particular, maybe you think that this is actually a syncopated downbeat or whatever, however when it occurs several times in one beat it's too much as it first of all might hinder gameplay and second of all doesn't make any sense musically as no one would write measure lines multiple times per baseline-unit of time (in the case of osu this would be referred to as "beats") so that's why I think this change would make sense and wouldn't be too much for BNs to check for.

updated, thanks

uh, if those "barlines" work the same way as in taiko then just use the current taiko rule about that ?

The Omit first bar line feature of an uninherited timing point must be used when a BPM change/metronome reset would hinder gameplay experience aesthetically by adding unnecessary bar lines.

realy0_ wrote:

uh, if those "barlines" work the same way as in taiko then just use the current taiko rule about that ?

The Omit first bar line feature of an uninherited timing point must be used when a BPM change/metronome reset would hinder gameplay experience aesthetically by adding unnecessary bar lines.

Oh yeah that is what I originally proposed