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Average BPM vs Most Common BPM

posted
Total Posts
20

Average BPM vs Most Common BPM

Average
40
31.01%
Most Common
89
68.99%
Total votes: 129
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Aqo
Not posting this is feature requests because this is a poll for community discussion before actually bringing up any suggestion.

So, does anybody actually find average bpm useful at all? If a map has 20 seconds in the start where it's 170bpm and then the entire rest of the map which is 4 minutes is 230bpm, does knowing that the average bpm is 200 really help you? Won't it be a ton more useful to know that the main body of the map is 230bpm and display that?

Discuss.

Example map: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/45935
The bpm range for this map is 90-241 however the large portion of the map is 186bpm. Won't knowing that it's 186bpm be infinitely more useful than knowing that the "average" bpm is 161 (which doesn't really tell us anything)?
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
Average bpm would seem to be 225.38, but that's not the point

What would happen if there was more than one most common bpm?
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Aqo

those wrote:

Average bpm would seem to be 225.38, but that's not the point

What would happen if there was more than one most common bpm?
I have never seen a map that has more than two bodies of bpm that are exactly the same ms amount.

Going by player logic, if this situation happens, the higher bpm should display as the most common one.

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/60748
This map is composed half of 198bpm and half of 240bpm. I'm not sure which one is longer; if one is significantly longer I'd prefer that one to show as the "most common" one. If they're approximately the same, I'd prefer 240bpm to show, since play-wise a 240bpm section is longer than a 198bpm section with the same length since you hit more notes.

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/40233 [Origin]
This map is mostly 160bpm and has a short ending which is 240bpm. I believe it's more useful to know that the main body of the map is 160bpm, since that's pretty much what you're going to play on. For some reason the average bpm that displays for this is 126, I don't know how is this even logical but either way this tells me nothing useful.

BPM is not speed. BPM is tempo. It is possible to map lower bpms faster or higher bpms slower. I think the logic behind "average bpm" was to give the user the idea of average speed of the map, except it doesn't do this at all due to how mapping works for this game. As far as tempo goes, "average tempo" makes no sense. Either that tempo is in the song, or it isn't. Displaying a tempo that isn't in the song is zero vital information.
Last edited by Aqo , edited 1 time in total.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
deltamax would show as 100 BPM with most common BPM.

I think that BPM-range is fine, as it tells you the minimum and the maximum BPM, so I can tell before playing the map if I can even do it speedwise. non-sudden speedchanges in BPM are easy to adjust to, and unexpected ones won't be any easier to play with the knowledge of common BPM.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Aqo

Tanzklaue wrote:

BPM-range is fine
BPM Range *IS* fine. Please keep it. It is very useful.

I'm talking about the recent thing that you see on the right side. i.e. range|average(?)

Last edited by Aqo , edited 2 times in total.
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
I agree that in some cases a fairly low bpm map gets overshadowed by a small section of higher bpm. I always sort my maps by BPM and I find this rather dull seeing how many maps that are within my favoured range of BPM are hidden at the very bottom of my list.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Aqo wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

BPM-range is fine
BPM Range *IS* fine. Please keep it. Is is very useful.

I'm talking about the recent thing that you see on the right side. i.e. range|average(?)

ah okay, I wasn't online for some days, didn't know about that. my bad.

average BPM is pretty much useless, as in some cases, it will result in an BPM that isn't featured in the map. the only case where it would be accurate is if for expample the map would have 80-160-240 BPM, then showing 160 BPM as average. in any other case, average BPM would be close to uselessness.

also lol, average of 187 and 200 is 163. remembers me of an case where a classmate had 1,75 and 1,5 as grades, and the final grade he got was 1,25.
enik
276 posts
Joined December 2011
enik
lol really, how come it says 163, it's not even in minimum bpm range.

but how you gonna measure bpm if it is constantly changing? like these maps http://osu.ppy.sh/b/60743 http://osu.ppy.sh/b/100626 (i'm not sure though if it does)
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare

enik wrote:

lol really, how come it says 163, it's not even in minimum bpm range.

but how you gonna measure bpm if it is constantly changing? like these maps http://osu.ppy.sh/b/60743 http://osu.ppy.sh/b/100626 (i'm not sure though if it does)
yeah. Also Stuff like DeltaMAX and Stream and Jump compilations. They keep increasing the BPM. showing 190~ BPM (just guessing) as the average BPM in jesus' Deathstream compilation would make no sense, since it gets up to 270 BPM
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Aqo
In maps like that nothing that you would display would make sense, other than making a full list of all bpms that lasted for more than 15 seconds in a row, but has too much gui-clutter potential. Might as well just not have any extra bpm information for those and only show the min-max because that's the only thing that tells you anything vital in a compact way.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
I don't think they will remove the BPM range. At least I hope they don't. Average BPM isn't accurate.

Do not remove useful information for non-useful information.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
i don't even pay attention to the numbers after the bar.

i just say to hell with it whenever i see it.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
shouldnt this be in feature requests?
[Luanny]
8,248 posts
Joined April 2011
[Luanny]

aheuaheuehau
of course most common
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
I remember in IRC, Aqo was telling me it was most common BPM when I said it was the average BPM

Good times.




On topic: It doesn't really matter
Mismagius
9,268 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius
where is the "i don't give a fuck" option
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
here, the red button
bwross
265 posts
Joined December 2009
bwross
It's a common statistical mistake to apply mean where it doesn't belong, when mode or median are more appropriate as a representative of what's "average". This is one of those cases, the mode is far better. The current mean calculation is at best misleading, and is often nonsensical or way off (see the example image above, where the mean is outside of the range). At the very least, it still needs work.

As for measuring mode, I wouldn't go with ms, but with beats. Ties broken with the highest BPM seems appropriate.
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West
Looks like most everyone, including myself, agrees with you. Why not make it a feature request?
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Aqo
Alright looks like this discussion has been settled.

Time to throw all your stars
p/2012233
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