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[Rule] Maximum of 8 Difficulties

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Topic Starter
those
If you were given the choice to change this rule, how would you change it? Would you increase the number? Decrease it? Remove the rule entirely?
Please back up your opinion.

Verdict: rule removed.
awp
As absurd as 8 difficulties sounds, putting a hard maximum on the number of difficulties actually sounds more absurd.

What's the alternative to hitting the difficulty cap? Splitting it into two mapsets. Now we need to download all those bulky resources (mp3, skin/SB if applicable, etc) twice. Nah, I'd rather just download the one beatmap set.
Oinari-sama
I personally think that a 7-Star system can better represent map difficulties than the current 5-Star system.

The current system works well for 4 Star maps and under, but the same cannot be said for 4.5/5 Star maps. Some old 4.5 Star maps are harder than new 5 Star maps, this is probably because at the moment the 5 Star rating covers too wide a range.

I reckon the current 5 Star rating should be split into 3 categories:
-New 5 Star (Easy-5)
-New 6 Star (Medium-5)
-New 7 Star (Hard-5 and above)

The new 7 Star maps will target those that can only be consistently FC'ed by the top 1000-2000 players.

Playing 5 Star maps in MP mode is just like playing Russian roulette at the moment, you never know what you're gonna get....
Topic Starter
those

bahamut_2000 wrote:

I personally think that a 7-Star system can better represent map difficulties than the current 5-Star system.

The current system works well for 4 Star maps and under, but the same cannot be said for 4.5/5 Star maps. Some old 4.5 Star maps are harder than new 5 Star maps, this is probably because at the moment the 5 Star rating covers too wide a range.

I reckon the current 5 Star rating should be split into 3 categories:
-New 5 Star (Easy-5)
-New 6 Star (Medium-5)
-New 7 Star (Hard-5 and above)

The new 7 Star maps will target those that can only be consistently FC'ed by the top 1000-2000 players.

Playing 5 Star maps in MP mode is just like playing Russian roulette at the moment, you never know what you're gonna get....
I think you may be in the wrong thread, sir.
Cygnus
I don't really see the point why there's a limit. I actually find it fun to see a map with tons of diff (Within Temptation, Marathon maps, etc) probably because they give more and more challenging stuffs especially when one user loves the map so much. Eh
Ekaru

awp wrote:

As absurd as 8 difficulties sounds, putting a hard maximum on the number of difficulties actually sounds more absurd.

What's the alternative to hitting the difficulty cap? Splitting it into two mapsets. Now we need to download all those bulky resources (mp3, skin/SB if applicable, etc) twice. Nah, I'd rather just download the one beatmap set.
Agreed.

Just make a "You'll have a hard time getting a map with a lot of diffs modded" note somewhere in the Ranking Criteria and all would be fine IMO.
MMzz

Ekaru wrote:

awp wrote:

As absurd as 8 difficulties sounds, putting a hard maximum on the number of difficulties actually sounds more absurd.

What's the alternative to hitting the difficulty cap? Splitting it into two mapsets. Now we need to download all those bulky resources (mp3, skin/SB if applicable, etc) twice. Nah, I'd rather just download the one beatmap set.
Agreed.

Just make a "You'll have a hard time getting a map with a lot of diffs modded" note somewhere in the Ranking Criteria and all would be fine IMO.
As true as that is Ekaru it sounds VERY negative. :P
Aurele
Just a little thought (That I've been thinking of since a long time..)
I actually thought to increase it to 9 since Catch the Beat difficulties are now rankable and why am I referring to that? Well because since they're now rankable, a mapper could have three Catch the Beat difficulties, Three Taiko difficulties and three Standard difficulties. So actually, the gasp here would be Easy/Normal/Hard or Normal/Hard/Insane.

Anyways, that's just a thought I wanted to shout out.
Oinari-sama
Jumped the gun, my bad :?
NatsumeRin
Remove it entirely.
For new mappers, i guess they won't spend several months just to make more diffs. And for experienced mappers, they should know that would cause much more trouble to rank that. And as they already know, they can judge if it worths themselves.

I have 3 8-diffs mapset ranked now (probably the most among mappers), it's because people rushed in to provide gds, and i won't reject if it has a good quality. I know it would be harder to get a map ranked because of this, but i think it won't hurt to give people more enjoyable diffs.
Starz0r

NatsumeRin wrote:

Remove it entirely.
For new mappers, i guess they won't spend several months just to make more diffs. And for experienced mappers, they should know that would cause much more trouble to rank that. And as they already know, they can judge if it worths themselves.

I have 3 8-diffs mapset ranked now (probably the most among mappers), it's because people rushed in to provide gds, and i won't reject if it has a good quality. I know it would be harder to get a map ranked because of this, but i think it won't hurt to give people more enjoyable diffs.
This. I would hate to have a max of 8 diffs, it would just ruin the whole purpose of having a map with diffs from so many other people. Such as: Atama No Taisou
Scorpiour
i would like to suggest three choices:

1. reduce the diff limit to 5 (without taiko/ctb) or 7 (within taiko/ctb), and the creator must make at least one insane diff if there're no less than two insanes, or one hard diff if there's only one insane.

that because i think creator must contribute the largest part of works in a mapset, or it is meaningless. Allowing GD for guest mappers who really love the song but have no enough time/ or similar reason that cannot be make a full mapset.

2. Creator must make the diffs which have a proper diff spread, and allows unlimited GD amount.

if a map has a proper diff spread within, it would make all players enjoy it. So, additional GDs could be considered as "extras" for pro players. eg. creator makes E-N-H-I, and then add 3 insane level GDs for pro players, it is acceptable.

3. Remove this rule, and ask MAT/BAT to handle it

all will be depended on each single cases, staffs will decide it and won't be disturbed by a general rule.
TheVileOne
Rule is kind of pointless and i'd argue it's unenforceable too. Try giving a good reason why a player should get rid of one of his difficulties. yeah, trying to enforce it will make you look like a rule nazi. There should be no hard limit, because the difficulty level manages itself.
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
if you remove this rule NTR will make a map 16 diffs which will take people 6 hours to mod

well it only needs extra diffs for osu!mania i think
Konei
In my opinion it is just pointless to keep an user away from putting as many diffs as he want in his mapset.
By the way; actually I don't even think this needs a note or such as it should be clear that people are having a harder time modding
8 diffs than 4 diffs :P Also would recommend then that the creator of the map should have a reasonable part of diffs self mapped.
Mithos
As long as the difficulties are easy to tell apart in the song selection screen, I have nothing wrong with having maps with a lot of difficulties, especially when we are getting Taiko/CTB/Mania maps in the mix.

I think if we removed the limit, there would still be a barrier to how many difficulties you could get modded to the point where you can rank them. It's a lot easier to get mods for a 3-4 diff mapset than a 6+ diff mapset. If someone wants to take up the challenge of getting every one of their difficulties ranked, they shouldn't be stopped at 8.
Kin
I think it's better to fix a limit of Difficulties by mode
For exemple 5 or 4 standard diff (1 easy + 1 normal + 1 hard + 1 insane + maybe 1 extra) + 4 or 5 taiko diff (1 kantan + 1 futsuu + 1 muzukashii + 1 oni + maybe 1 inner oni) + 1 or 2 ctb diff
Drafura

Kin wrote:

1 or 2 ctb diff
Why ? Imo each playmode should be able to get his own diffspread in the mapset even osu!mania ones. But hey this means ENHIX x4 = 20 diffs in a mapset.
TheVileOne
I modded a map that is going to violate the 8 difficulty rule. it doesn't make sense to me that the only maps that innocently break this rules are ones with taiko modes in them. This rule should only apply to same mode difficulties, because requiring at least 2 of a gamemode eats up difficulties fast and different gamemodes require a different type of modder anyways.

Easy-Normal-Hard-2 insanes-2 taikos = 7 difficulties. If we require two mania difficulties, then that's 9 without even having a CTB.

IMO, the difficulty spread rule covers the bases quite thoroughly. As long as they have a suitable easy difficulty, and a Hard, they can have as many Insanes as they want if I understand the rule correctly. At least Natsumerin got away with more than 2 insanes because of that. Instead of hard limiting the number of maps, we could instead expand upon the type of requirements for having larger beatmap sets.
Kuro
I think the limit should be 10 diffs in a set. Now we need to have two taiko diffs to have it ranked and if you have Easy, Normal, Hard, Insane, Muzukashii, Oni that's already 6 diffs (not including ctb and o!mania). If it takes too long to get it ranked because people don't want to mod so many diffs, the first things to be removed are any non-standard diffs. So no one will probably ever get 10 diffs ranked anyway, unless they're prepared to wait.

On another note: Having 4-5 standard diffs and then 2 taiko diffs is why the majority of skilled players in the taiko community are still playing unranked taiko diffs and will continue to do so. No standard mapper would want to add their own taiko or taiko GDs to their beatmap sets knowing it'll be hard to get it ranked because of the # of diffs.
Sakura
To the ones wanting a limit of X number of difficulties (total, per gamemode, w/e), why do you think there should be any limit at all?
Yuzeyun
@^ It depends. I wouldn't mind a 500-diff mapset, but that'd become huge after a moment, and horribly tedious to mod, especially when the song is as long as Anjuu, for example. Special Marathon songs can have 60 diffs as long as the maps per song are the same as the map in the final Marathon diff.

The ideal mapset imo would be : 1-2x CTB and Mania, 2~4x Taiko and 2~4x Standard, adjusted to the feeling of the song, making it from 5 to 10 difficulties. 8 diff mapset is a bit restricting for the most extended one, but is still fine for wide-mode mapsets.

Dual mapsets have 8 diffs : Impossible to add CTB/Mania diffs atm.
Tri and Quad mapsets would be interesting, but 12 and 16 diffs become tedious to mod (A 1-minute song could take one full day to mod while we could do that in 3 hours in some cases.)
Azusa Nakkano
Exept if there is CTB,Taiko and Standard difficulites are there,i don't understand how could you make 8 difficulties mapped as well...It could take so much time to a song
LKs
this rule could, or should be eliminated

because maps with countless diffs are still the minority. what's more it's even rare to see those maps are aiming for/qualified for ranking

so XATs can easily handle if such cases just happen sporadically

btw frankly, if a mapper does love a song and decides to map all 3 or even 4 modes. it may comes to like this:

2~6 standard diffs (yes E, N, H, I-, I, I+)
2 taiko diffs
1~2ctb diffs (H, I)
mania(?)
Ava

LKs wrote:

2~6 standard diffs (yes E, N, H, I-, I, I+)
Why I- ? I and I+ is enough imo.
OnosakiHito

awp wrote:

As absurd as 8 difficulties sounds, putting a hard maximum on the number of difficulties actually sounds more absurd.

What's the alternative to hitting the difficulty cap? Splitting it into two mapsets. Now we need to download all those bulky resources (mp3, skin/SB if applicable, etc) twice. Nah, I'd rather just download the one beatmap set.

NatsumeRin wrote:

Remove it entirely.
For new mappers, i guess they won't spend several months just to make more diffs. And for experienced mappers, they should know that would cause much more trouble to rank that. And as they already know, they can judge if it worths themselves.
I have the same opinion as those two. Nothing more to say from my site.
TheVileOne

Sakura wrote:

To the ones wanting a limit of X number of difficulties (total, per gamemode, w/e), why do you think there should be any limit at all?
I think if you're going to map a full beatmap set for two different gamemodes within the same set, then it'd really be better off if each mode was its own set. That's my opinion until someone changes it.
woc2006
For single mode in mapset, keep 8 diff limitation.
Sakura

TheVileOne wrote:

Sakura wrote:

To the ones wanting a limit of X number of difficulties (total, per gamemode, w/e), why do you think there should be any limit at all?
I think if you're going to map a full beatmap set for two different gamemodes within the same set, then it'd really be better off if each mode was its own set. That's my opinion until someone changes it.
Does it make sense to download the same mp3 twice (or even thrice), the same SB if it exists, and anything else like videos for the sake of having it split into different game modes?
Kuro

Sakura wrote:

TheVileOne wrote:

I think if you're going to map a full beatmap set for two different gamemodes within the same set, then it'd really be better off if each mode was its own set. That's my opinion until someone changes it.
Does it make sense to download the same mp3 twice (or even thrice), the same SB if it exists, and anything else like videos for the sake of having it split into different game modes?
I think he meant this concept:

Song Folder
  1. Video
  2. Music
  3. SB
  4. Subfolder: osu!standard
    1. E-N-H-I
  5. Subfolder: Taiko
    1. K-F-M-O
  6. Subfolder: CTB
    1. E-N-H-I
  7. Subfolder: osu!mania
    1. E-N-H-I
Or something similar... Correct me if I'm wrong but there would be no need to re-download if it was structured like this.... :P
TheVileOne
I say that because the more difficulties there are the harder it is to navigate through the beatmap. If there are 4 of one gamemode, and 4 of another, there are four beatmaps from a gamemode a lot of people aren't even going to play. But yeah it wouldn't be very efficient, I agree. It would be kind of a messy beatmap set.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to let us be able to hide mode specific difficulties.
Stefan

Gabe wrote:

Just a little thought (That I've been thinking of since a long time..)
I actually thought to increase it to 9 since Catch the Beat difficulties are now rankable and why am I referring to that? Well because since they're now rankable, a mapper could have three Catch the Beat difficulties, Three Taiko difficulties and three Standard difficulties. So actually, the gasp here would be Easy/Normal/Hard or Normal/Hard/Insane.

Anyways, that's just a thought I wanted to shout out.
A really good point. However, since I am pretty sure that there will be more CTB Diffs made (talking about all non-Rain Diffs) the Rule would be a obstacle. And ofc, there is still osu!mania. I really can imagine 14- until 18-Diff Mapsets in the near future. Also, the person should decide if he keeps his Map longer unranked or if he wants to "rush" it to the Rank. I actually hate it when people are saying that it will takes longer because of eight Diffs (and maybe more later).

_Gezo_ wrote:

I wouldn't mind a 500-diff mapset, but that'd become huge after a moment, and horribly tedious to mod, especially when the song is as long as Anjuu, for example.
No offense, but I find this example very very bad.
theowest

TheVileOne wrote:

Perhaps it would be a good idea to let us be able to hide mode specific difficulties.
t/80237/

all I have to say about this topic: The more the merrier, 8 is perfect.
Topic Starter
those
Rule will be removed. Wiki has been updated accordingly.
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