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Beatmap Spotlights (Summer 2020) - Discussion Thread

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Willy
I'm not sure that we quite understood each other here peppy so I just want to take a minute to explain myself through your response. Sorry if I come across as rude or anything I'm just trying to translate the experiences of a player who has sunk 12+ hours into spotlights already.

peppy wrote:

1. spinner skinning is coming this week, was hoping to get it in last week, but alas. this is the only remaining non-skinnable gameplay element (you mention there are others so please fill us in so we don't miss them, because we are unaware of any!).
Good to hear that spinners are going to be skinnable, I hope more things will be skinnable soon. I did mention some things very briefly that need fixing though in my post: "This is not to mention some of the other major skinning problems like sliderborders are much thicker on lazer than they should be and immediately disappearing circles don't work."

peppy wrote:

2. borderless doesn't perform differently, that's just how borderless works. it may be specific to your drivers (each driver handles this as they want). you should always be playing fullscreen if you care about latency at all.
I've been down this road before but it was just a quick mention for something that I have had trouble with.

peppy wrote:

lazer will NOT steal focus. there is no code for this. it may again be an issue with your drivers so please report it as a bug with a video and specs of your driver and hardware versions so we can look into it (we've not had a single report of this yet).
Actually this has been reported before and I've just replied to it with a video of lazer stealing focus. If you'd like further information and specifics I'd be glad to help!

Try to look at these two things from my perspective though. The drivers may be the sole cause of everything I've experienced but just imagine you're in this position. I am the average user. I have never had a problem with any other game or program stealing focus before. Stable with borderless works absolutely fine. When I play lazer though I have problems and when I report them I'm just told that it's my drivers. The drivers that have not cause an issue for anything on my computer ever before but just suddenly don't work with lazer and lazer only. It may indeed be the drivers, but nothing else on my PC shows it.

peppy wrote:

3. please see the lazer disclaimer. please also see that this whole spotlight is a test and it is DUE TO THE SPOTLIGHT that we are quickly adding / changing game mechanics. if you aren't a fan of this, wait for things to stabilise, maybe in a few months?
That's fine but then why are you holding a competition in official capacity. Again please imagine yourself as one of the competitors in a competition where every week the rules are changed. You say in the next line that the badge is the reward to draw people in but you should realize that people are going to treat this like a real competition because a badge is an official reward. How do players get badges? Winning tournaments, and that's the mindset they carry over.

peppy wrote:

each week, everyone is on a level playing field.
Now that this change is pushed people who play in week 5 and 6 are biased over week 1 and 2. Not exactly the most even playing field I can imagine but I understand that within a week everyone is equal.

peppy wrote:

this means you have to replay a previous map? okay. if that annoys you, maybe it's time to take a break from the game (or at very least this kind of experimental system).
This means that EVERYONE has to replay EVERY map. It's not just me upset. If you don't think I'm credible then take a look at the posts by Kingling or Sleepteiner. That last sentence though is true and it has been something I've been thinking about.

peppy wrote:

4. the badges are there to incentivise and to let us gather feedback from players that otherwise wouldn't bother. if it turns you off that's fine; we have so much positive feedback coming from others who have participated.
All of this happens because people are expecting a normal competition from a badged event even if it is branded as a test run. I will be the first to say that I think competitions of this format are great and I am happy that this is being explored and tested. I just think that the idea of a "test run" where rules are constantly changing doesn't meet the criteria for a badge. Would you let a first time tournament host have a badge for their experimental tournament idea?

I personally think that beatmap spotlights should have a custom reward not like any other to not be confused in this way. Imagine each division colors your profile a different way instead of using the default pink, I think that would be a reward many people would be interested in and would go for not expecting an official competition in the test run. Here's a simple example of what I mean:

That or putting a little division icon near your name on profile or something else unique to signify it.

I hope some of my points are a little more clear now, thank you for taking the time to respond! I really do hope that spotlights is able to run smoothly and find its footing here, I wouldn't be leaving all these paragraphs if I didn't.
Sleepteiner
I can sort of understand why people are against badges for a test run, however, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these badges going to go away at the end of the season? Personally, I don't see too much of an issue with a temporary badge for a test run. And, if it helps the spotlight team test how badges will work with this new system in the future, then I'm completely fine with it.

Although, I'm too not big into the tournament scene, so my view of badges may differ from people who have worked really hard to get them normally.
Danny Carey
From what we've been told, the highest tier badges will stay permanently. If all badges were temporary then I also wouldn't have an issue.
Topic Starter
Loctav
Keep in mind that sticking to "Top 50 gets Rhythm Incarnate" requires us to have enough participants, so we don't have overlaps (~2500 participants are required for that)

On other news, the Playlist D is now available on the wiki! The badges will be updated under the week and supporters are being distributed today.
KcHecKa
Yeah I kinda assumed this, when the first week happened and there was only 100~ Mania participants. It would be weird to have 50 (half) of them all get rhythm incarnate, making the next "top 3%" kinda overlap into that.
Topic Starter
Loctav

Kingling wrote:

From what we've been told, the highest tier badges will stay permanently. If all badges were temporary then I also wouldn't have an issue.
The rhythm incarnate badges are meant to stay (for now). We are currently exploring options for an alternative way to reflect your tier. Badges overally are an interim solution that won't stay forever.

Once we have explored a proper spotlight-specific solution to reflect your tier, everyone will be able to keep their tier permanently on their profile (as a medal or as something entirely else, depends on what we settle down with).

Generally, badges are only utilized and temporary for now because we do not have an own spotlight-specific system for that part, yet. That being said, once we have a solution in place, even the permanent rhythm incarnate badges will be converted into the system and the "temporary badges" that may have disappeared already will be ported into the system, too, effectively restoring it.
clayton

Loctav wrote:

That being said, once we have a solution in place, even the permanent rhythm incarnate badges will be converted into the system and the "temporary badges" that may have disappeared already will be ported into the system, too, effectively restoring it.
this is exactly what Kingling and Willy and most people concerned about the future of spotlights don't want -- all of the rewards from this test run should be temporary, because it's a test run. they should be gone by the time the first non-test season starts and never "restored" later

peppy wrote:

this means you have to replay a previous map? okay. if that annoys you, maybe it's time to take a break from the game (or at very least this kind of experimental system).
you want people to not participate if they're annoyed by the unstable nature of a "test run", but also advertise permanent rewards that can never be earned again without participating in the test run. really mixed message here. as a player annoyed by a lot of the choices made for spotlights and lazer scoring now, I'm still keeping up with the lobbies anyway because I don't want to miss out on an exclusive permanent reward.
Lefafel
It has been common practice for years in online multiplayer games that early playtesters (alpha, beta, what have you) are given exclusive cosmetic rewards to show their participation. In-game user titles, character skins and so on. I don't see how these spotlight medals (that temporarily are showing up as badges) are functionally different from a beta-tester cape in an MMO or an exclusive skin in a MOBA.
clayton
I'd be on board with some small token of participation like that.

they are functionally different because these badges (and whatever comes to replace them) are rating your performance in spotlights, not only your participation. they don't say "I was there!", they say "this is how I performed", which is unfortunate given all the hiccups with lazer that are making it feel unsuitable as a competitive environment, for now at least
Ephemeral
open to suggestions about how to proceed with the enduring prize element - noting that any sort of base participation badge awarded to all people in the program would easily be >1k+ profile badges at this point

limiting the rewards to RI was kind of a compromise between having prizes and not flooding the system with tons of them, 1k badges is not a small number by any means
Lights

Ephemeral wrote:

open to suggestions about how to proceed with the enduring prize element - noting that any sort of base participation badge awarded to all people in the program would easily be >1k+ profile badges at this point

limiting the rewards to RI was kind of a compromise between having prizes and not flooding the system with tons of them, 1k badges is not a small number by any means
small? certainly not. But what is the cost of awarding a badge to a lot of people? even if a few thousand people get that easy badge, theres still well over a million people whom don't have that badge. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the intended purpose of badges, but I don't see the harm in awarding them slightly more liberally than past ones have been.
Rocma
hi! I would like to write some suggestion about some issues on osu!catch spotlight!

Current problems in the scoring system:
1. Bananas
2. Acc (droplets)
3. Combo weighting

Playability
Horrible lag of freezes mid gameplay - imagine you're hitting a slow long slider in standard and you miss in the middle of it -> makes hitting consecutive hyperdashes very diffifcult
big droplets do not gain hyperdashes regardless of distance, they should
huge lag spikes before the spinner

Because of said scoring/playability problems, there are some key balance issues as well
If the mappool is easy (without mods currently they are) the leaderboards depend more on spinners than misses
For example, you can make up for missing once or twice on difficult maps by simply spinning better on say, the 6 minute platter.

Some solutions:
Right now with said problems, it's almost meaningless to give badges solely depending on who is top 3% or dividing up rank divisions.

1) Don't give out badges period - this is simple but people might get mad
2) Come up with a more flexible badge threshold, like giving everyone who is within 1% of the final score of the top finisher gets the badge which is something already suggested. (just an example as I said on discord)
3) Give everyone a test run badge
4) As said at the beginning, give the entire top 50 the rhythm incarnate badge or to a simliar degree. Players are discouraged from playing because they know that only 4~5 top players who fc every map with near max spinners will get the badge, thus giving up before trying. By giving people badges, they will play more and the feedback will help make the gameplay smoother.

thanks to my secret friend translating :D
Danny Carey
I think an ideal reward would just be a medal (similar to the beatmap pack and hush hush medals) that is given to everyone who played in the spotlights simply saying 'I participated in the test run'. No sign of rank, no sign of anything to do with how well they performed.
clayton
agree
Topic Starter
Loctav
The timeshift lobbies for this weekend are now available with Playlist A. This is the first time a playlist re-runs. It's your first opportunity to set a score for this playlist if you joined the competition later than others. For those who have already played in a Playlist A lobby, you sure can participate as well. Remember that only the best lobby scores of a playlist counts into the current season.
This means that if you have already played on Playlist A and perform better this time, your worse lobby score of this playlist is replaced with the better one.

The lobbies will close on August 10th 2020, 19:00 UTC.

Given that osu!lazer has underwent several changes in scoring across all game modes, we would like to assure you that we do our best to normalize the scores, leveling out the variations that were created between the first run of the spotlights and the first re-run. We try our best to maintain the comparability between the weeks as much as remotely possible.

As always, the top 10 of every lobby participant is being awarded 1 week of osu!supporter independently.
Ephemeral
limited time medals are ass for anyone who wants 100% completion and are very unlikely to happen for precisely that reason
clayton
I didn't think it specifically being a medal was the focus there but, yeah I don't think it should be a medal for that reason. wherever spotlights rewards are displayed in the future, the "medals"/"badges" should go there. the main argument from ppl like Kingling and I is that the test run should not show what rank you achieved and only be a reward for participation.

to me this is still just a compromise with Lefafel's comment and the people running spotlights, who are not hearing out the suggestion to have no permanent rewards at all for test run(s). I don't see any issue with this, especially given the rocky road with lazer and scoring. peppy says "the badges are there to incentivise and to let us gather feedback from players that otherwise wouldn't bother", but I can't see why this wouldn't equally apply with the temporary rank badges that everyone is happy with as-is
Blight-kun
hello not updating?
Topic Starter
Loctav
The first re-run of the Playlist B lobbies are now available!

We are currently preparing the next season (Autumn 2020), implementing a plethora of changes on how the Spotlight curation and playlist design is going to work. We will keep you posted as soon as we have details about that.
Kuron-kun
Playlist A and B are now open again for all gamemodes!

If you have already set scores in those playlists, you can always play them again and try to beat your own highest scores! Only the best lobby scores count for this season, so do not worry, your previous scores will not be overpassed by the newest ones if they happen to be lower.

Also, a small peek on the possible future upcoming changes to our system on the next season (Autumn 2020):

  • - Lobbies in the new season are going to run for a full week.
    - Lobbies are going to be repeated only once.
    - We will include modded beatmaps into the playlists of the future seasons.
    - We will make a more distinct differentation between the curation and map spotlight part and the league part. Therefore, we will establish a dedicated showcase for all beatmaps selected at the beginning of the season and directly awarding the best mappers of recent creations alongside. We want to give the creators the spotlight here and not revolve absolutely everything around the league thereafter.
Feel free to discuss about them here or throw us new suggestions!
hallowatcher
any update on the final results?
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