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Spoilers in maps

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Total Posts
22
Skidooskei
377 posts
Joined April 2017
Topic Starter
Skidooskei
So recently I've been wanting to map a lot of songs from video games, mainly the Danganronpa franchise. However I've been quite worried about mapping it due to some of the songs having potential spoilers to the story in them. So I was hoping something could be added to allow me and other mappers to be able to map this stuff without having to worry about it and warn people everywhere.

I was thinking this could go under a similar section to the explicit lyrics part of the criteria, as in a warning must be displayed in the map description saying something like "Spoiler Warning!". Although this would help, it would obviously not be useful for those using Osu!Direct, at least until Osu!Laser comes out.

Although this is not too related to the ranking criteria, a warning could also be set using a tick box in the editor much like the epilepsy warning button (could be done for the explicit lyrics thing too). This would ensure everyone saw the warning.

I'd also be nice to see some rules such as the ban of spoilery backgrounds, as it'd be impossible to avoid seeing these.

Anyway this was just something I've had in my mind for a while so I'd like to hear the rules on it. Thanks for using your time to read this!
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
spoiler warning option for beatmaps via the editor sounds cool (18+ option should rly be there as well), not sure about RC's role in this though.
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
Skidooskei
377 posts
Joined April 2017
Topic Starter
Skidooskei
I said that if something like this is not added into the game (which is unlikely due to main development being on laser), a rule similar to the 18+ one could be added where you must state that the song may contain spoilers in the description of the map.
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
well as long as it's a "for now" thing like 18+, it seems fine to me.

https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/3664
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect

clayton wrote:

spoiler warning option for beatmaps via the editor sounds cool (18+ option should rly be there as well), not sure about RC's role in this though.
i mean i dunno

the thing is, most of the songs are in japanese, plus, you're focused on the map itself. my only concern are songs from rwby, as they're in english, and a lot of the time, the songs give spoilers especially that one song about pyrrha's death
lewski
1,253 posts
Joined September 2014
lewski

Li Syaoran wrote:

most of the songs are in japanese
as crazy as it sounds, a few people in the world do speak the language
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
lol, yeah RC isn't designed for only English speakers, it's just written in English first since most of us speak it. functionally this is very similar to the 18+ rule with respect to all languages so I think it's alright to add for now

I'll leave this open until there are more comments, so if you're a lurker reading this right now and think this is a fine addition, please write something
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
Serizawa Haruki
1,658 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki
My only issue with this is the fact that unlike explicit lyrics, there is no clear definition of spoilers in this context. Only people who have watched/played/read the respective media would be able to tell if it's a spoiler which makes enforcing this rule pretty difficult and ambiguous.

Maybe a clearer definition of spoilers needs to be added and it would probably also be more suitable as a guideline for the reason stated above.
Last edited by Serizawa Haruki , edited 1 time in total.
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
Only people who have watched/played/read the respective media would be able to tell if it's a spoiler which makes enforcing this rule pretty difficult and ambiguous.
likewise, only people who understand the language of explicit lyrics are able to tell they're explicit lyrics. I feel like that's a moot point. fwiw this is only proposing to moderate beatmap descriptions right now, which can be edited at any time anyway

Maybe a clearer definition of spoilers needs to be added
probably, though I'm pretty sure a "spoiler" by nature has a vague boundary because it all depends on how much info counts as too much info to have something ruined, which depends on the reader.

I don't think the point of either 18+ or spoiler rules are to say "this is EXACTLY what counts as needing to be warned in the description", it's just to make people aware that they should be considering this when uploading maps. 18+ warnings already are only done either by good faith or by moderators when they make their own decision about what feels right according to the also-vague Song Content Rules

and it would probably also be more suitable as a guideline for the reason stated above.
don't think so. a guideline for a warning is essentially useless because the warning is only helpful if you can rely on it being there.
Serizawa Haruki
1,658 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki
I get your point and I agree that it will always be arbitrary, but the difference is that explicit lyrics usually reviewed by BNs, the GMT and/or the NAT where all the common languages are represented. Spoilers are not reviewed by anyone so it's unclear to me when this rule is applicable and how it should be enforced. Regarding song content rules, there is at least a definition and an explanation in this article whereas the term spoiler is simply being mentioned here without further clarifications. Although it's not possible to define it in an unambiguous way, even a vague definition with some examples would be helpful.

clayton wrote:

a guideline for a warning is essentially useless because the warning is only helpful if you can rely on it being there.
That's true but my point is that it's very difficult to rely on it when its usage is very unclear as I said above.
Last edited by Serizawa Haruki , edited 2 times in total.
DrsActive44
2 posts
Joined May 2020
DrsActive44

Li Syaoran wrote:

clayton wrote:

spoiler warning option for beatmaps via the editor sounds cool (18+ option should rly be there as well), not sure about RC's role in this though.
i mean i dunno

the thing is, most of the songs are in japanese, plus, you're focused on the map itself. my only concern are songs from rwby, as they're in english, and a lot of the time, the songs give spoilers especially that one song about pyrrha's death
Who tf is Pyrrha?
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

Spoilers are not reviewed by anyone so it's unclear to me when this rule is applicable and how it should be enforced.
exactly how 18+ in description is done rn ---
when: anytime really because you can edit a beatmap description after it's ranked too
who: anyone who cares
how: via whatever the person who cares thinks is appropriate + debate if it doesn't make sense

all I'm going for here is a straightforward reminder to people that spoilers are to be mentioned in descriptions if you catch them. also, I think you're getting the "review" of 18+ warnings in description mixed up with content moderation overall, at least I haven't seen GMT suggest to put a warning in the description before. it's not really the point as said in last post

I still don't know what a "definition" of spoiler would look like, and I feel like we could just go without one and see what (if anything) happens first. unless someone gives a convincing one here Cuz personally I have no sense of what most ppl's opinions on spoilers are like

in any case this thread still has very few talkers so we waitin
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect

clayton wrote:

all I'm going for here is a straightforward reminder to people that spoilers are to be mentioned in descriptions if you catch them. also, I think you're getting the "review" of 18+ warnings in description mixed up with content moderation overall, at least I haven't seen GMT suggest to put a warning in the description before. it's not really the point as said in last post
i mean, but it depends on how that spoiler affects the story. some spoilers are huge plot twists, like how in cardcaptor sakura yue "disappears" while others are small things that won't affect you, the viewer, as much, like in ccs when yukito turns out to be yue

some spoilers need more leverage than others, and this is sort of the problem with having a spoiler warning. i'm for and against it. on one hand, the player won't know what happened to riko when she got her arm cut off, but on the other hand, the player will only know that if they've watched a decent amount of that anime. plus, the focus is on clicking the circles, not listening to the lyrics, so the player is engaged in trying to pass the map.

but i do however agree with the banning of spoiler bgs. danganronpa has A LOT of spoilers, especially when it comes to who died and who didn't. if someone were to have a bg of maizono getting stabbed in pink blood, a certain player might see this and then get bummed over that. on the other hand. this happens in episode 2, so
Last edited by Dialect , edited 1 time in total.
hypercyte
Elite Mapper
741 posts
Joined October 2016
hypercyte
I agree with having this for now until something more concrete is made available (possibly in the lazer editor)

Obviously we won't have a way to strictly enforce it, but it'll at least encourage people to place spoiler warnings if they're aware of it or made aware of it.

We don't need a strict definition of a "spoiler", honestly we can just let people use common sense. More likely than not, someone who has followed a series (whether it be a game, anime etc.) they'll know when something is a spoiler or not.
Last edited by hypercyte , edited 1 time in total.
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect
^

that can be plausible
JBHyperion
osu!catch Paragon
3,922 posts
Joined September 2014
JBHyperion
For what it's worth, spoilers are moderated in in-game chat, forums, etc. by GMT consensus and there usually aren't any issues, so I see no reason why the BN/NAT can't discuss and agree on when something needs to be spoiler tagged in a beatmap using the same method.
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect

JBHyperion wrote:

For what it's worth, spoilers are moderated in in-game chat, forums, etc. by GMT consensus and there usually aren't any issues, so I see no reason why the BN/NAT can't discuss and agree on when something needs to be spoiler tagged in a beatmap using the same method.
well there aren't really spoiler heavy songs, but there are spoiler heavy bgs.

i think having a spoiler warning is a good idea, and i think someone should test this out by ranking a map with a spoilery bg, and see what people think (although danganronpa isn't popular in the osu! community, so maybe another anime that a lot of osu! players like? this also isn't just off limits to anime, as other forms of media have spoilers also)
chowch
43 posts
Joined February 2018
chowch
I like this idea of noting spoilers. It would definitely be helpful.

hypercyte wrote:

I agree with having this for now until something more concrete is made available (possibly in the lazer editor)
I think something to take into consideration for a spoiler tick in the lazer editor is the fact that it could potentially add yet another overlay for people starting a map. As of current, the epilepsy pop-up that appears when starting a map has the potential to become obscured by the loved/qualified pop-up (I think this is something that deserves a discussion thread in itself -- this is pretty dangerous!). If there were a spoiler pop-up too, it would just add even more unnecessary clutter to the start of a beatmap.

A spoilery loved map with 18+ lyrics and a flashy storyboard would just be monstrous if pop-ups for those things were added into lazer.

For the future, lazer might rework these pop-ups so that they are actually viable. I think that the best solution for denoting spoilers in lazer would be by using a beatmap's thumbnail, which could cover spoilers in both background and lyrical content. For now, spoilers would work as something for a set's description.

Li Syaoran wrote:

i think having a spoiler warning is a good idea, and i think someone should test this out by ranking a map with a spoilery bg, and see what people think...
The idea of spoiling players on their potentially favorite franchise in order to test an RC addition is hilarious to me, but this is probably too cruel.

clayton wrote:

I still don't know what a "definition" of spoiler would look like, and I feel like we could just go without one and see what (if anything) happens first. unless someone gives a convincing one here Cuz personally I have no sense of what most ppl's opinions on spoilers are like
Although the definition of a spoiler is ultimately vague, I still think it's worthwhile to at least give people an idea. Having something to fall back on in the RC can only help. At the very least, we can specify that spoilers can be in both a mapset's background and in it's lyrical content. I suggest adding this on to what you already have here:

... Backgrounds and lyrics that reveal information normally found later in other media can be disruptive to players.
I guess now it's time to wait for more replies.
Last edited by chowch , edited 1 time in total.
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect

Adam_S wrote:

... Backgrounds and lyrics that reveal information normally found later in other media can be disruptive to players.
I guess now it's time to wait for more replies.

well i actually do wanna see some form of regulation in terms of spoilers. i personally don't care about spoilers, because you're going to get to that part anyways.

and it really depends on what the community considers a spoiler. let's ask a few questions:

1. "Does this spoiler affect your perception of the storyline?"

let's use usagi drop as an example. in the manga, rin gets married to daikichi. (sorry for this edgy example it's the first thing i thought of) if you knew they got married beforehand in the earlier chapters, that would most likely mess up your perception of the series a bit, considering daikichi was a father figure to rin. that's why they say, don't read past volume 4

now let's compare that to another example from usagi drop. in the context of you not knowing rin and daikichi gets married, let's now say, kouki developed feelings for rin, but they don't get together. with the context in mind, i don't think this'll affect your perception of the series. sure they seemed like a cute couple, but they were moreso childhood friends, and had a sakura/kero relationship

2. "Will this affect your perception of the map itself?"

will the spoiler in the map affect your perception of the map you're playing? i think this map could be the closest to a spoilery bg, considering deku is with whatever that girl's name is (i haven't really watched bnha). if you didn't like the map, was it because of the spoiler, or was it because of the map itself?

i'm all for spoiler warnings, but it's hard to regulate it, when there are so many things we have to take into account. as i said, we can rank a map with a spoilery bg, and see how the community reacts, BUT it has to be from a popular anime among the osu! community and one that no one has really finished watching. it's sort of hard to provide regulations imo
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect
looking back at this, i think this could be added still. i'd doubt people would want to know that riko gets her arm chopped off on purpose if they've only been on the 2nd episode. like the new cs rule, we should test this out for a few maps and see how the community reacts. it might be cruel, yes, but i think it's the only viable option. or we could do a poll asking the whole community on their opinion, but i don't know
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