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Thoughts on Quaver?

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JackDoggo
I play quaver only because it has customizable rates. That's pretty much it.
abraker
with its easier ranking requirements I think it'll make most mappers from mania migrate
Lights
It has a lot of potential. I got into the second wave of the alpha and have had a pretty good experience with it. Word has it that it'll be released in about a month, so it should be interesting to see how it plays out, given that (on paper) its more or less just a better version of osu!mania with some features from Etterna.
PositoniX
i've been waiting for my chance to get into the quaver alpha for a few months now, but ever subce the last wave there haven't been any other waves for well over half a year. i guess im just gonna end up having to wait until beta opens or when it just gets released. im definently excited for this game, since mania doesnt have a lot of ranked maps for players my level and higher (except maps with dt but im struggling to find any).
HGBD
I've tried it now. Unfortunately, as of now, it does not have any ranked 8k maps and does not even have the option to sort by K other than 4 or 7. The ranking system was definitely borrowed from Malody which I still think has the better and more impactful engine of the three. I'm a bit disappointed that they decided to go the way of basing their game off of osu!mania in many respects which definitely won't contribute to any new mappers appearing any time soon.
Long story short, I think (hopefully things will change) after some time, it will go down the path of Malody - a very niche client for 4k players and 7k o2!mania maps.
Even though I never liked osu!mania for the sheer abundance of o2 mappers in 7k and straight converstions from o2, I'm still glad it can embrace other key modes and styles. In Quaver it feels quite the opposite actually.
P.S As far as I know (read in #quaver in the client), it does not support .bme yet which was promised as a feature a long time ago.
PositoniX
i just got my hands on quaver, i like it. the maps are kinda similar to the ones here in mania, meaning there's tons of ln and sv in a lot of maps, but the maps that arent centered around those things are very enjoyable. it's extremely unstable though, and crashes very frequently, but obviously they'll fix those issues eventually
HGBD

PositoniX wrote:

i just got my hands on quaver, i like it. the maps are kinda similar to the ones here in mania, meaning there's tons of ln and sv in a lot of maps, but the maps that arent centered around those things are very enjoyable. it's extremely unstable though, and crashes very frequently, but obviously they'll fix those issues eventually
Weirdly enough, I've never had any crashes in my 10 hours of play. That's where I gotta give it props to - trying to map or simply playing - not a single bug.
Lights
Now that the game is out, I'm a bit let down. No crashes on my end and the open beta UI is beautiful, but the ranked pool is still terrible and the diff calc / leaderboard / ranking system has barely improved over the last year of development.
Connormgs

PositoniX wrote:

i just got my hands on quaver, i like it. the maps are kinda similar to the ones here in mania, meaning there's tons of ln and sv in a lot of maps, but the maps that arent centered around those things are very enjoyable. it's extremely unstable though, and crashes very frequently, but obviously they'll fix those issues eventually
I've been using the offline builds since November with very few crashes, could always try sharing your crash logs with the development team to identify anything in particular causing crashes. As for the song variety you can always import your osumania songs and play them as well. One thing you could also try is asking some of your favorite chart authors if they would be willing to have their charts ranked on Quaver.
PositoniX

Connormgs wrote:

PositoniX wrote:

i just got my hands on quaver, i like it. the maps are kinda similar to the ones here in mania, meaning there's tons of ln and sv in a lot of maps, but the maps that arent centered around those things are very enjoyable. it's extremely unstable though, and crashes very frequently, but obviously they'll fix those issues eventually
I've been using the offline builds since November with very few crashes, could always try sharing your crash logs with the development team to identify anything in particular causing crashes. As for the song variety you can always import your osumania songs and play them as well. One thing you could also try is asking some of your favorite chart authors if they would be willing to have their charts ranked on Quaver.
the fact you've been using the offline ver might explain why you weren't experiencing crashes. 90% of my crashes happened on multiplayer, with the other 10% happening whenever. also, im not a big fan of importing songs from one game to another game to another when i can just play the songs on the original game.
Connormgs

PositoniX wrote:

Connormgs wrote:

PositoniX wrote:

i just got my hands on quaver, i like it. the maps are kinda similar to the ones here in mania, meaning there's tons of ln and sv in a lot of maps, but the maps that arent centered around those things are very enjoyable. it's extremely unstable though, and crashes very frequently, but obviously they'll fix those issues eventually
I've been using the offline builds since November with very few crashes, could always try sharing your crash logs with the development team to identify anything in particular causing crashes. As for the song variety you can always import your osumania songs and play them as well. One thing you could also try is asking some of your favorite chart authors if they would be willing to have their charts ranked on Quaver.
the fact you've been using the offline ver might explain why you weren't experiencing crashes. 90% of my crashes happened on multiplayer, with the other 10% happening whenever. also, im not a big fan of importing songs from one game to another game to another when i can just play the songs on the original game.
You'd rather play the same songs on a client that feels terrible instead? Alright.
PositoniX

Connormgs wrote:

PositoniX wrote:

Connormgs wrote:

PositoniX wrote:

i just got my hands on quaver, i like it. the maps are kinda similar to the ones here in mania, meaning there's tons of ln and sv in a lot of maps, but the maps that arent centered around those things are very enjoyable. it's extremely unstable though, and crashes very frequently, but obviously they'll fix those issues eventually
I've been using the offline builds since November with very few crashes, could always try sharing your crash logs with the development team to identify anything in particular causing crashes. As for the song variety you can always import your osumania songs and play them as well. One thing you could also try is asking some of your favorite chart authors if they would be willing to have their charts ranked on Quaver.
the fact you've been using the offline ver might explain why you weren't experiencing crashes. 90% of my crashes happened on multiplayer, with the other 10% happening whenever. also, im not a big fan of importing songs from one game to another game to another when i can just play the songs on the original game.
You'd rather play the same songs on a client that feels terrible instead? Alright.
id rather not play osu mania maps at all, since a lot of them are pretty bad, but if i do ever stop by these maps then i'd want to set ranks. quaver doesnt let me do so.
HGBD
Since I've checked almost all 7k maps, I can definitely say Quaver needs some good maps -very badly-. 50% of ranked maps are hot garbage, another 40% are mediocre at best even by osu!mania standarts (which tells a lot) and only 10% are legitimately good.

The maps I've found enjoyable are:
Booths of Fighters by Skalim
Heartache by Silentch

These are the only two mappers who have managed to make all the difficulties play equally fun.

A decent chunck of maps were done by yahwen, and while he has a few okay~ish maps like YUKINOFUNK (the easier one) and the two that come pre-installed (Touhou one and TEK+), most of them were of questionable quality with lots of chord and double staircase spam even on lower difficulties with very monotonous rhythm a.k.a 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 with no variety to emphasize the melody.
Lights

HGBD wrote:

Since I've checked almost all 7k maps, I can definitely say Quaver needs some good maps -very badly-. 50% of ranked maps are hot garbage, another 40% are mediocre at best even by osu!mania standarts (which tells a lot) and only 10% are legitimately good.

The maps I've found enjoyable are:
Booths of Fighters by Skalim
Heartache by Silentch

These are the only two mappers who have managed to make all the difficulties play equally fun.

A decent chunck of maps were done by yahwen, and while he has a few okay~ish maps like YUKINOFUNK (the easier one) and the two that come pre-installed (Touhou one and TEK+), most of them were of questionable quality with lots of chord and double staircase spam even on lower difficulties with very monotonous rhythm a.k.a 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 with no variety to emphasize the melody.
I feel the same way about the endless sea of nanahira charts by pianoluigi, almost none of which are worth playing.
PositoniX

Lights wrote:

HGBD wrote:

Since I've checked almost all 7k maps, I can definitely say Quaver needs some good maps -very badly-. 50% of ranked maps are hot garbage, another 40% are mediocre at best even by osu!mania standarts (which tells a lot) and only 10% are legitimately good.

The maps I've found enjoyable are:
Booths of Fighters by Skalim
Heartache by Silentch

These are the only two mappers who have managed to make all the difficulties play equally fun.

A decent chunck of maps were done by yahwen, and while he has a few okay~ish maps like YUKINOFUNK (the easier one) and the two that come pre-installed (Touhou one and TEK+), most of them were of questionable quality with lots of chord and double staircase spam even on lower difficulties with very monotonous rhythm a.k.a 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 with no variety to emphasize the melody.
I feel the same way about the endless sea of nanahira charts by pianoluigi, almost none of which are worth playing.
unpopular opinion but i think we should just unrank all nanahira charts other then the 1hr nanahira marathon. im not saying it's any better, im just saying it's all we need
Noch Einen

abraker wrote:

with its easier ranking requirements I think it'll make most mappers from mania migrate
I agreed, but also i dont want to compare the old mania with quaver (as era comparison).
But for now, quaver lacks of Ranking Supervisor (or BN as terms in here) that can changes some RC but still having lenient RC that will open for many styles with more consistent in charts.

Reminder for people who read this, Quaver still on beta, it still requires much works.

HGBD wrote:

Since I've checked almost all 7k maps, I can definitely say Quaver needs some good maps -very badly-. 50% of ranked maps are hot garbage, another 40% are mediocre at best even by osu!mania standarts (which tells a lot) and only 10% are legitimately good.
Idk if you said that is based of "recent ranked", not by "whole ranked" since you write checked almost all 7k maps

But would you even contribute how to map better instead of complaining? Have your style on it if you think ranked section there are garbage. We'll see you there
HGBD

Noch Einen wrote:

abraker wrote:

with its easier ranking requirements I think it'll make most mappers from mania migrate
I agreed, but also i dont want to compare the old mania with quaver (as era comparison).
But for now, quaver lacks of Ranking Supervisor (or BN as terms in here) that can changes some RC but still having lenient RC that will open for many styles with more consistent in charts.

Reminder for people who read this, Quaver still on beta, it still requires much works.

[quote="HGBD"]Since I've checked almost all 7k maps, I can definitely say Quaver needs some good maps -very badly-. 50% of ranked maps are hot garbage, another 40% are mediocre at best even by osu!mania standarts (which tells a lot) and only 10% are legitimately good.

Idk if you said that is based of "recent ranked", not by "whole ranked" since you write checked almost all 7k maps

But would you even contribute how to map better instead of complaining? Have your style on it if you think ranked section there are garbage. We'll see you there
I've played almost all 7k ranked maps. Isn't it self-explanatory what makes a map bad or simply uninteresting? Like no rhythm change throught the whole map or unnessesary chord spam which does not reflect anything in particular about the melody. I mean, I'm usually biased towards o2mania and 7k lns maps in general because I mostly play bms\iidx. But what is out there for the most part has nothing to do with mapping style. It's just lots of boring and uninspired maps that people usually make for self-training. But they are ranked. It kind of makes me appreciate osu!mania maps more.

...instead of complaining...
That is called criticism. Basic guidelines for various mapping styles have been out there for god knows how long. o2, bms/iidx, general osu!mania guidelines: you can pick any. Even though they have some major differences, they have a lot in common.

...Have your style on it if you think ranked section there are garbage. We'll see you there...
I am not a mapper. I don't think I have enough creativity to make a decent and entertaining map. And I am not lying to myself trying to justify some rushed maps as 'your own style'.
Is the non-stop 1-2-3-4 through the entirety of a map is a style to you? Yet again, it's okay for training maps, maybe some specific maps, but not 50% of all the ranked maps available.
Lights
It isn't just the 7-key pool, the 4key charts are pretty garbage too. Tons of criminally underrated jack and SV charts that arent worth playing for Ranking purposes, a ton of criminally overrated dense js / hs files that are only worth playing for ranking purposes, a bunch of nanahira nonsense charts that arent even worth playing, and then a bunch of osu!mania converts which arent much better. Theres a few decent charts, but they're far from the majority and require a bit of looking to even find them. Oh, and theres a NBJS icyworld chart.

The only way to play Quaver currently that is even somewhat worthwhile is to play converts from osu or etterna. or to use its multiplayer features.

The group of people ranking charts in the closed alpha was relatively small (and IMO most of them suck at making fun charts) so hopefully the influx of osu and etterna players leads to some decent charts.

I've been playing and following Quaver for over a year now. While it has come a very long way in that time, theyve still got a long way to go before the game is worth seriously playing as a primary VSRG
Roasted Chicken
I've been trying out Quaver the past week since its beta release, keep in mind I only speak for myself and absolutely not for the entirety of the BNG.

Quaver has been developed as a "better osu!mania" and honestly, in a lot of ways it really is.
First of, the main topic rn, map quality. A lot of yall don't like the quality that is produced here in mania (I'm honestly a bit disconnected anyways), but if you like quality maps, then Quaver is absolutely not the way to go as of now.

Quaver is just like osu!mania, it relies on its community to push content. Quaver is a new game, so it needs content. This is also how mania started (I assume). When you go back to 2013 maps, those maps absolutely stink as well right? Quaver is in that stage rn, so I believe the quality of the maps will gradually increase over time. The positive part about these very loose standards is the newer mappers are very encouraged to pick up mapping, thus creating new mappers, more content to live on and also potentially new modders and maybe even Ranking Supervisors.
Keep in mind I have actually only played a couple 7K maps so I'm mostly speaking about 4K section.

Onto the things Quaver has that mania does not, gameplay wise:
  1. Rates
  2. Negative SVs
  3. Ability to look at the map in 1 click before playing
  4. Free osu!direct (quaver!direct?), which also has way better filter options
  5. In-depth chart to show how you played after finishing a map

Editor:
  1. Custom snaps (such as 1/5 and 1/7, which are only achievable through a bpm line in mania)
  2. Rating shows inside the editor (honestly not that useful since it fluctuates way too hard, pretty fun ig)
  3. Ability to install Plugins (haven't used yet but sounds pretty useful)
  4. Ability to test play within the editor with mods and rates
  5. Quaver doesn't go into windowed mode for the editor, so you don't have more latency unlike mania (although I don't really care about that extra 5ms)

Skinning seems to be mostly the same as far as I can tell, only thing I noticed that is really different is that you can't animate hit objects, which sucks cause I use a skin with animations.
Keep in mind there might be more features, however I do not deem them useful for myself.

Now you might ask, wtf does osu have then?
imo, a way better editor. Quaver's editor is extremely lacking.

Here's a list of things I find annoying that is missing:
  1. Timing signature and omit barline (important for multi bpm songs, now you can't prevent stuff like this https://imgur.com/a/Yl0cWzL)
  2. Bookmarks
  3. Apparently you can keysound, but there is actually no button in the editor to do so (so you have to notepad edit)
  4. Option to resnap all notes (or more importantly LN lengths
  5. OHNO you can't livemap!

Quaver editor also has little to no shortcuts (which for some might not matter, but I always use a fuck ton of shortcuts in mania editor).

Separate list of very useful mania shortcuts Quaver doesn't have:
  1. Such as, F5 for quick test play.
  2. Shift click dragging a normal note to make it an LN.
  3. Ability to zoom in/out with scroll wheel (you have to use PgUP or PgDN as a shortcut, but since you are holding a mouse to place notes, it's pretty inconvenient, or if you click the zoom in/out button you'd have to spam click it a lot)
  4. CTRL + (SHIFT) + P to place bpm lines and SVs.
  5. CTRL + O to quickly hop to another diff (you have to quit the editor, select the other diff and go back into the editor for Quaver.

There might be more that I'm forgetting about, but I suppose they weren't important anyways then.
Ofc Quaver also has a ton of bugs, but since it's a new game and still in beta, it should be okay. (osu on the other hand..)

Also about qr (quaver rating) and sr (star rating), I think both are just as broken. With Quaver having stupidly broken LNs and apparently jacks too and mania ofc has the famous jumptrills and LNs as well

All in all I think Quaver has a lot of potential, but is very lacking on the editor side, but since they have an active dev team they should be able to improve on it. Like said before, Quaver still has a long way to go, these are only the first steps.

Thanks for listening to my TED-talk
Noch Einen
Croco has spoken most of it. I really greatly appreciate for honest opinion about it (that is quite saving most time than making unhealthy forum post)

Reminder that the game is still Open-Source (which is anyone can contribute by reporting issues or requesting features / may not contribute on the game)
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