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NAT meeting summary 2020-04-11

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yaspo
osu! Alumni
265 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
yaspo
hello!

We've been asked to review and improve the current genre and language settings! Below you can find conclusions derived from its respective NAT meeting: "Genre and Language settings".
You can find future and past meeting topics here.

Refer to github for the complete list of suggested changes, below are the most important ones.

Revisiting Genre and Language
  1. Add Metal, Folk, Jazz and Classical to flesh out the existing genre list
  2. Move Anime and Video Game to an additional field, so they're not wrongly treated as genres
  3. Use additional fields for better categorisation and more search options, such as Vocaloid, Doujin, Nightcore, Remix, ...
  4. Add Polish, Russian and Conlang (made-up languages) to the existing languages list
  5. Allowing setting multiple genres & languages if possible

Impact on Beatmap Nominators
  1. Should be able to set them on both pending and qualified maps
  2. Shouldn't be able to nominate maps when both Genre and Language aren't set

Other Conclusions
  1. Mappers should set Genre and Language themselves as much as possible
  2. Ask a NAT when you notice a genre or language being set wrongly
  3. Subgenres fit better in tags due to being harder to pinpoint
  4. A list of genre descriptions on the wiki would be useful -- soon to be merged: https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/3468
  5. The backlog of unset genres and languages has been cleared out thanks to Noffy and Deif!

If you have questions or concerns about these conclusions or the suggested changes on github, feel free to post in this thread.
Last edited by pishifat , edited 1 time in total.
Serizawa Haruki
1,693 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki
I think you forgot to add a few languages, namely Portuguese, Cantonese, Indonesian and Thai. These are similarly common to Polish based on ranked maps so it's worth adding them (some of these were also discussed in the meeting).

Other than that I feel like making Nightcore a category in the "type" field is weird because that information is already in the title and we defined that not all sped up songs are Nightcore when we created the metadata rule so using it as an umbrella term now is inconsistent.

The "source" categories are also somewhat conflicting because some of them overlap, for example anime movies. Besides, anime air on television too so you'd have to specify that it refers to western television or something. The term video game is also quite broad because it encompasses visual novels, rhythm games etc. I feel like these two types of games are popular enough to warrant their own category because they are vastly different both in terms of gameplay and song genre.
yaspo
osu! Alumni
265 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
yaspo
languages: I could edit in Portuguese, Indonesian and Thai, mostly want to avoid the pitfall of wanting to add every language. Does any of these take priority in your eyes?

Nightcore: It's not meant to be an umbrella term, maybe you could see it that way with the absence of a "Sped-up" type, but if a sped-up song isn't nightcore then it isn't nightcore. The title argument does somewhat make sense? I'd argue that categorization can ensure consistency, but it's probably likely for all nightcore songs to have it in their title. In the end I'd say "doesn't hurt to have it"

Source: You'd prioritize which is most relevant, likely in the following order: movie > anime > television. Otherwise the preference to allow multiple for all settings is mentioned, this would fix that issue. In the meantime, with the wiki article for genre and language being created, specifying that Television should only refer to western television seems perfectly doable.

Video Game: Currently having visual novel and rhythm game seems to conflict a bit imo, since they are subcategories of videogame and not things that should really sit next to it.

For a bunch of these things, having subcategories would be ideal. Cantonese would be a subcategory of chinese, rhythm game and visual novel would be subcategories of video game. I do think however that it's more important to lay out the base types and start making them more specific as we go.
Serizawa Haruki
1,693 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki
All of those languages seem equally important/common. I added Cantonese as well because it was mentioned in the meeting by Chaoslitz but for some reason it wasn't noticed. I don't think it makes sense to add subcategories for languages, especially when Cantonese is its own language and not just a variation of Chinese. In fact, Chinese is not really correct and should be changed to Mandarin if anything. But if that's too troublesome, I guess both Cantonese and Mandarin songs could be labeled as Chinese for the sake of simplification, but apparently some ranked Cantonese maps are labeled as "other" which is inconsistent. In any case, subcategories for languages don't make sense.

As for the sources, I'm not sure how sensible it is to label songs from anime movies as "movie" and songs from anime series as "anime". The only difference is the format/length of the media, the content is the same though. The main issue is that you are using different kinds of terms in the same category type. Television, movie and video game broadly refer to the type of media while anime is a more specific term (Japanese film and television animation). It would make more sense to put anime as a subcategory of movie/television, similar to how rhythm game and visual novel should be subcategories of video game as you said.
Last edited by Serizawa Haruki , edited 1 time in total.
yaspo
osu! Alumni
265 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
yaspo
oh, yeah cantonese maps should probably not be labeled as "other", I'll throw this to people that know better than me. For now I'd treat things the same as languages on the website do, which is to simplify it to Chinese yeah. I'm under the impression that cantonese speakers can deal with mandarin just fine so it's not a huge deal i m o.

As for anime/movie/TV, that sounds somewhat fair. That'd just make the order of priority without subcategories or the ability to add multiple anime > movie > television. Without subcategories and with the ability to add multiple I'd keep them separate still, since it's such a widespread source material.
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