This is because I don't quite support the idea of "Random unmodded mapbutton." In my own experience, hitting the zero reply gives a terrible number of maps not worthy of being in the Pending Maps section. Furthermore, what if you got a random map from an author that is no longer active.

My proposal: The Mod-List (M-list)
The basic idea is to have the mapper wait in line for the map to be reviewed. Here is how I envision it so far.

Assumption:M-List considers maps that are currently submitted as Pending beatmaps: completed beatmaps that the owner believes is ready for rankings.

1. A mapper may submit one of his/her beatmaps to the M-List. One mapper may only have one map in the M-List at a time. (more if you are subscribed?) There is no limit to how often a map can be submitted as it will go to the bottom of the list each time. After submitting a map, the map will get a new status to show which place in line it is. (ex. #3 of 28)

2. A modder will access the M-list and get redirected to the forum of the beatmap at the top of the list (beatmaps on first come first serve basis)By accessing the M-list, the modder signs up for bonus kudosu (explained below). A modder will have the option of rejecting the map, commenting on the map, or starring the map.
•A rejection would have to be on basis of things like timing, inappropriateness, file corruption, bad mapping(usually coincides with timing) Severe timing is valid reason for rejection on the basis that Pending maps should be ready for ranking. From what I'm seeing, its not worth even trying to mod until timing is done and beats are resnapped and shifted because you arent sure you are looking at the same map after this process.
If three rejections of the same type are recorded, the map is immediately moved to Beatmap Help threads.
•Commenting and Starring would be the same as is now. Modder may make comments to suggest changes, just give a star, or both. One thing I noticed when I started modding was that I would just leave the thread if I couldnt contribute to a map. But im thinking, if you cant comment against it then it probably deserves a star.I think people might be too lazy to give since it wont grant u any kudos. further, If 85% or higher of the modders give stars, a bonus star M-star is awarded to the map. (so, 3star if only 3 mods report, else by high majority)

3. Once the map receives 3 responses or is rejected, it is taken off the list. The next beatmap in line takes its place as featured and the original map's owner may make changes and resubmit the map or submit a different map. The original map may still receive more than 3 responses if people signed up as modders at the same time.

-bonus kudosu: to encourage the use of such a system and to credit a modder for putting up with crappy bad timing maps and whatnot.
A modder will receive +1 kudosu if he/she contributed to a beatmap rejection (three rejections of the same type)
A modder will receive +1 kudosu if he/she contributed to a M-star (majority gave a star)
A modder will recieve +2 kudosu if he/she provides helpful comments. (just like replying to old beatmap)

This is very community based. The speed that the list advances depends on how many users actually participate in modding here. For the sake of discussion i will assume that a fair amount of people will use this system in place of pushing that awful random beatmap button. I like this idea because the mapper can see when his/her map is actually going to get some feedback instead of praying the map is picked from some random algorithm. One map per person limits the existing list we have to sift through as we stand now. Rejected maps to teh Help thread might even weed out the normal pending beatmap. Another thing, this does not impact the kudosu system that is already in place.

Theres still kinks i could discuss(mainly about possible abuse) but Ill stop here to see if its at all plausible or if anyone agrees.

You know that Random Map button isn't mandatory or the main way a map gets modded, right? Like, it's just if you want to, oh, say, mod a random map. What's bad about that? o-o If someone wants their map ranked, they can go around modding other maps, maybe even some random ones and gain kudosu to give their map priority or they can ask some non-BATs to mod their map until they have a nice amount of priority. First Come First Serve Mod List? Isn't that just like a strict version of a Mod Queue? Isn't the mod queue something we were more or less trying to not focus on with this new Kudosu! system? I don't get it.

Although this might not be true, I can kinda see everyone feeling their map is ready to be ranked and just adding their maps to the mod list no matter what. We'll probably just end up with more rejections than ranks.

Besides, if someone who actually knows whether a map is good quality or not was to try to get his map ranked (like me, for example), I would not add my map to the queue and wait for a hundred other maps to be modded first; I would just go on irc and ask for a rank :X

How would your mod list combat this?

Echo wrote:

Besides, if someone who actually knows whether a map is good quality or not was to try to get his map ranked (like me, for example), I would not add my map to the queue and wait for a hundred other maps to be modded first; I would just go on irc and ask for a rank :X

How would your mod list combat this?

Would it have to? The way I see it, with the kudosu system in place, BATs should really no longer be taking rank requests through irc or other modes of contact.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

My Mod-List is Completely seperate from the Pending list.

Seibei4211 wrote:

You know that Random Map button isn't mandatory or the main way a map gets modded, right? Like, it's just if you want to, oh, say, mod a random map. What's bad about that? o-o If someone wants their map ranked, they can go around modding other maps, maybe even some random ones and gain kudosu to give their map priority or they can ask some non-BATs to mod their map until they have a nice amount of priority. First Come First Serve Mod List? Isn't that just like a strict version of a Mod Queue? Isn't the mod queue something we were more or less trying to not focus on with this new Kudosu! system? I don't get it.

Mod queue is also not mandatory and doesnt have to be a main way a map gets modded. It would be something on the side of what we are doing right now. I explained why i think modding a random map has its problems. Ill offer comparison.
-Random map might give a very old map that the author has given up on. M-List is by user submission so you know they are still active.
-Random map does not guarentee that a particular user will ever be considered. I might have to wait years to eventually be the one random of the 100s of maps. M-list offers a solution and a status update with its place in line status.
-How do you give bonus kudosu to random map? If by +1 for helpful post then my first point ruins this. Also if its a bad map then the post is usually not "helpfull." Finally, if its a good map, better than you can give advice for then nothing happnes to it. Congrats you were picked as a random map and recieved no feedback. M-list tries to at least offer incentive to use and rewards the modders that use it appropriately.
It is a strict version of mod queue (was this a post somewhere i missed?) that goes alongside the system that is in place now. Someone please explain to me what the hell being sent to a random map will solve. If your hunting for kudos, you pretty much are choosing a random map. 1-5 stars doesnt mean anything at all right now and you probably dont know more than half the songs being posted so the process is almost already random. Mod queue is to help starting mappers (like myself :z ) have a way to actually get looked at. You can still just lurk the forums hunting kudosu to promote your map and do this on top of it.

Echo wrote:

Although this might not be true, I can kinda see everyone feeling their map is ready to be ranked and just adding their maps to the mod list no matter what. We'll probably just end up with more rejections than ranks.

Besides, if someone who actually knows whether a map is good quality or not was to try to get his map ranked (like me, for example), I would not add my map to the queue and wait for a hundred other maps to be modded first; I would just go on irc and ask for a rank :X

How would your mod list combat this?

Everyone already does feel thier map is ready and add to the pending list as is. This would be a new list with even stricter guidlines because "Pending beatmaps" is somewhat of a mess once you get to the 1-0 star submissions. So we sift through this already. 1 Map at a time should cut the list. What is wrong with more rejections than ranks? Is it a good thing to have misstimed or very low quality maps in PENDING? they belong in "help" if you ask me. I think ending up with more rejections than ranks is still a great thing. You still have the ability to ask in irc or ask a bat if the list is implemented so im not sure what you guys are trying to get at. In my experience, its hard to get a word in on in game client chat. I've only managed to get simple questions answerd or just be ignored. Which doesnt really suprise me- people already know eachother and are doing their own thing, i almost feel like im trying to interupt them or something. As MisterVercetti observed in his post, the trend seems to be mods favor other mods and people they already know. New mappers are left in the dust. I stress the term trend because I see some mods busting ass in the help and pending forums (another reason i feel its rude or selfish to run in and ask "zomg do mee tooo"). Random map solves nothing for us newblets. Here at least we know that we will eventually get some kind of opinion. Even if the system is kinda slow and the downtime is like three days it would be a massive improvement from what some of us are experiencing now. Again, You uberpro mappers can still do everything you are doing now and dont need to use this system. You guys probably dont even need to use the Kudosu system since u have irc and prestige already.

An64fan wrote:

Something like this wouldn't be able to help the ranking process. Why?

fufe wrote:

3. Once the map receives 3 responses or is rejected, it is taken off the list. The next beatmap in line takes its place as featured and the original map's owner may make changes and resubmit the map or submit a different map. The original map may still receive more than 3 responses if people signed up as modders at the same time.

You broke your system is why. GJ.

I dont understand your statement. This system does not try to RANK your map. It tries to enforce that every map that goes through it gets looked at. If it is good it should be rewarded with stars and therefore higher on the existing priority list. If it could use improvement then it has a much higher chance of getting them here (in my opinion) and if its just bad, Gtfo imo ._.
Broke my system how? The idea was that you sign up to be a M-list modder then get to work. Say 5 people access M-list at around the same time and are signed up to mod a song called..."Bananas". When three responses are received, "Bananas" leaves the M-list AND NOT the Pending list. Now "Apples" is the top song of the list. The other two "Bananas" modders who have not responded yet can still give thier feedback and post it in the "Bananas" thread for bonus kudosu. Anyone who accesses the M-list at this point will be sent to "Apples" This is all assuming that its possible to do in the programing perspective. But thats why its in the request area. So whats broken?

well, not mentioned is that the newly and poorly skilled mapper may be ignored. So we may have to assume that people read tutorials and faqs. This also doesnt effect maps in beatmap help section. no change to modding there, which i think is ok. K.. thats too much for now.. lol

Random will not give a map older than 4 weeks. This is because the map will be graveyarded in that case. We can always limit it to 2 weeks instead.

Your system just seems too complex and unnecessary to me.

What is your problem with random? Its NOT EVEN IMPLEMENTED YET.

Your mod queue will have like 200 maps in it. It won't work because most people won't even use it - they will look for songs they know and mod those. This is part of the star system's concept - maps which are more popular will be moded faster. I've already said ths, but if you want maps to be ranked, map popular songs to begin with.

Every map already "gets a look" because we have many people watching the tail end of the pending forum to ensure no good maps are graveyarded unnecessarily.

peppy wrote:

Random will not give a map older than 4 weeks. This is because the map will be graveyarded in that case. We can always limit it to 2 weeks instead.

its already like 750 maps with pending/help so.. um lol k wut?

peppy wrote:

Your system just seems too complex and unnecessary to me.

Yea i tried to cover alll the details probaly wasnt the best idea to start with that. I was thinking modders could use it to earn kodusu faster while still helping mappers, as opposed to probing through the list.

What is your problem with random? Its NOT EVEN IMPLEMENTED YET.

i just dont see how it solves any problems. Mappers may now get lucky. hurray. I guess i dont really outright reject it anymore. I just dont think it is solving the problems at hand.

Your mod queue will have like 200 maps in it. It won't work because most people won't even use it - they will look for songs they know and mod those. This is part of the star system's concept - maps which are more popular will be moded faster. I've already said ths, but if you want maps to be ranked, map popular songs to begin with.

Yea I agree with the statement and the concept. I just wish i knew this before i did my first two maps. Oh well not a huge deal. I thought that this may still go on just like it is now, but once u cant find anymore songs you know you can use this system. I guess we dont have that kind of volume of people modding right now tho.

Every map already "gets a look" because we have many people watching the tail end of the pending forum to ensure no good maps are graveyarded unnecessarily.

So you are saying that if you truly think that your map is in good shape you have to wait 4 weeks to meet the graveyard crew. I understand this part now, saw some of the good maps saved in this manner. Thats still pretty depressing if you ask me. You have to wait a month and still not be sure if you will get any kind of feedback.

Anyways, i thank you all for your time and consideration. I guess my vision is failed. I was looking at a highly community influenced system kinda like newgrounds.com where users will have more power to weed out the good and bad right off the bat. I havn't given up on the current kudosu system, but am experiencing frustration in (1)sifting through too many maps in pending that should not be there (2) not being able to contribute to a map and deserve kudosu wich can lead to (3) not getting any kind of feedback. I just thought it would be nice to be able to have a system that guarentees responses.

I dunno, I like this idea. How your rejection system works, it only takes 3 mods to get a poor map out of pending. Considering that there are at LEAST 3 people who like this idea, it wouldn't take long to get bad maps out of pending. And for the maps that are good, they get the attention they deserve with a variety of comments. Because they get comments quicker, improvements are made quicker, and maps get ranked faster. So not only do bad maps get weeded out faster, but good maps get RANKED faster. Personally, I love the idea of a definite system rather than a random button.

So what happens after a map gets kicked from pending to help? What stops the creator from moving it straight back?

Hmm. I would say there should be a rejection penalty where you can't submit that map to the list again for a week or something. Also, the first come first serve basis means that even if they could just submit it again, they'd have to wait awhile before getting in the spotlight again where their map would be ripped a new one again. Like I said earlier, if 3 people like this system, it would get knocked off the list pretty quickly.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Would the extras still be there though? I'm guessing the M-Star would be worth quite a few priority points considering you've had 3 or so people star your map in a row showing that your map is pretty darn close to being ranked, so that would probably be a good implementation. The double kudos for helpful comments might not be that great an idea and getting bonus kudos for contributing to an M-Star doesn't make too much sense, but the graveyard bonus would work pretty well. Incentive for weeding out the queue would speed along the process even more. Also, if it grabs the most recent map that hasn't been modded 3 times, wouldn't that make the ability to resubmit your map if it's already been through the M-List once impossible?

No idea what an M-star or m-list is. There's too much text in this thread --. As for motviation; the random button was going to give double kudosu. Even if it wasn't random it will still give double kudosu.

Also stars do not mean a map is close to ranking. It means you like the map.

The main problem I have with this thread is its too decoupled with kudosu. Anyway discuss it amongst yourselves - I'm not up for a 1 on 1 conversation on this issue, sorry.

Sorry it is a massive block of text and i know you are already all over the forums.

M-List = the line/queue
M-star= an additional star awarded if majority of mappers award a star.

Well I guess I've missed the point of stars. But this reinforces one of the points i made in the post above. If you cant make comments and the map is completely sound as a beatmap, it will not get all the feedback it deserves.


Having a "next in line" button for maps without 3 will effectively do the same as this system at a much slower rate. I chose one map at a time so that the mapper may put the best map forward. Nevertheless, I support this idea of next without 3 replies button. I think this would be the first step of a full blown system that I hastily explained above. If the button is implemented goes well then I my proposed system should be re-evaluated to speed up the process.