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[osu!taiko] Allow drum sampleset default hitsounds

posted
Total Posts
14
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
a recent update to the game made them usable.

this was originally proposed & fixed by https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/999682 , but I reverted this because there was no discussion from taiko BN/Nat about how the default kat tone is lower than don, which conflicts with a later guideline in taiko RC. i updated the reasoning for the rule in the meantime

right now, RC rule reads:
The drum sampleset must not be used unless default hit sound samples are replaced by custom samples. The sampleset's default hit sounds do not follow the tone guideline for dons and kats.


I propose changing this to a guideline, since the kat/don tone thing is also a guideline.

update: the samples were swapped, so if this sounds good now the rule can be removed. please test on cuttingedge
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,685 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy
so you're telling me you "reverted" it due to lack of discussion but then you also changed it to something else also without any discussion?
clayton what

ok I know the kat/don pitch guidelines are a thing but default stuff should never ever be unrankable. we even have an exception for a specific delayed default sample in standard because of this.


I'm not a taiko buff but all things considered I think

a.) the rule you added needs to be removed


then there's two options for the second step I've thought of

b1.) revise the pitch guideline to be high/low for kat and don in soft and normal sampleset, and low/high for kat and don in drum sampleset to reflect how it is in default/user skins.

or

b2.) just change pitch guidelines to be "kat and don must be distinctly different in tone or pitch"
Last edited by Noffy , edited 1 time in total.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
huh? I changed no rules. I rewrote the reasoning sentence because it was clearly wrong following the new client update. my new one may also be irrelevant to some degree, which is why this thread is now open, but it's 200% for sure not as misleading as the original and it's certainly not incorrect (it's literally just a reference to another part of RC)

so let's hear from some taiko people about this

responding to ur suggestions:

Noffy wrote:

default stuff should never ever be unrankable

this is a lame reason. it's not taiko mapper's problem if the game wasn't designed well. the new drum samples are just the default ones, made available for taiko. the whole tone difference thing probably was never considered despite being pretty important to taiko's gameplay

a) no rules were changed
b1) doesn't make a lot of sense because the tone guideline recommends high for kat in all cases, and this is what any previously ranked drum sampleset kat would have been following
b2) similar to ^

obvious but not mentioned option "c" is get some proper taiko default sounds for the drum sampleset so that they aren't awkward like this. it was kinda a lazy implementation to begin with
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,685 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy
It was removed because its reason for existing was gone and you quickly added back a similar but different rule that has an entirely different reason to exist (a rule to enforce a guideline??? I know the thread is here for fixing that but it's still really weird).

That said I still stand by default should never be unrankable. I think b2 warrants more discussion.

We'll have to look into getting the drum samples changed, and maybe this thread should sit until we can get some confirmation about it. I don't think it can be finalized either way until that issue is sorted out
Last edited by Noffy , edited 2 times in total.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
my opinion shouldn't be taken as anything meaningful for this discussion since im not very involved with taiko, but fwiw if the default sounds don't change I think I'm on the side of just keeping the rule as is (or change to guideline like OP says blabla). too many weird implications about breaking backwards-compatibility with custom drum samples and breaking the obvious expectation of a kat (drum rim) being higher pitched than a don (drum centre). "default should never be unrankable" blankets over these concerns and doesn't solve em
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
Nifty
902 posts
Joined September 2014
Nifty
Why were the kat and don made to be the wrong pitches in the first place? It would make more sense to just switch the pitches of the default skin's drum tones and remove the rule completely instead of fudging around with wording and arguing over a case that will probably only be seen once a year, since nobody uses drum hitsounds and most skins don't even include them for taiko.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
Up vote
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
can someone familiar with this open an issue on https://github.com/ppy/osu-stable-issues/issues

it's not gonna be fixed otherwise :(
tatatat
923 posts
Joined March 2015
tatatat
Nifty, its wrong samples because thats how it is in osu!/osu!catch, they just allowed taiko to use the same samplesets. The samples sound good, but they’re in the wrong order.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
considering there's taiko-specific sounds already, I hope it wouldn't be too much to ask to get some for the drum sampleset now, if we're gonna have any sound at all
Cynplytholowazy
364 posts
Joined January 2014
Cynplytholowazy
https://github.com/ppy/osu-stable-issues/issues/291
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
@taiko guys if this is acceptable on cuttingedge now, we can delete this rule. test pls
Nifty
902 posts
Joined September 2014
Nifty
test confirmed positive, we did it boys
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/2993 blop
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