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The absence of the old

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Topic Starter
Pokebis
There was a recent thread where Darrihuka announced he was quitting the osu! community and, well, let some of his opinion out into the air. I was about to contribute to that topic, then peppy locked it.
Since I still want to post what I wanted to say I'll post it here and recommend you read the thread before you read the following (a great example of where collapsible spoilers would be very useful):
I, personally, don't have a whole lot to add to this.
Basically, it's just like the analogy of a cool place, once people find out about it, it's not fun anymore. That's why some people don't like to post the sites that they go to in fear of a flood and ruination of their hangout. Some people may use /b/ as an example, but that was never super good in the first place, but I can't deny it's gotten like ten times worse.
osu! is definitely growing larger as a community. And I agree 100%, as the community grew larger the "coolness" began to deteriorate. In a sense, I've quit osu! as well. I never hang out in irc anymore, really unless it's just a method of contact for one of you guys, and I play even less. I still download packs every once in a while, but I haven't really played them.
I'm pretty sure lots of users here, including peppy, want a larger community though for their own reasons, (Maybe more maps and opportunities for osu! to develop?) but I don't like where some of this is going. And you can't really just claw down onto the BATs at this point because, as stated before, they aren't payed. They volunteer this out of their own time to do this, so it isn't really the same as neglecting to do a job. And with the growing community there are plenty of maps to look over and paying attention to a newbie could bring in a person with great potential to offer to the community, but if you ignore them to mod an experienced mapper, you'd be passing up on the opportunity.
I kind of hang out on the forums, but have noticed the quality here is lagging behind now too (and yes I know I'm a contributor to that cause as well :roll: ) but lots of the people here are pretty cool guys. I've learned a lot and made a lot of friends here. Well I may not show it, I respect a lot of you guys, and I guess trolling teasing or being a little negative is just my way of getting my points across. I usually take more of a satirical role rather than a straightforward one, so I'm trying to be pretty honest right now.
The quality of the maps.... Well, I do like old DJpop ones like good 'ol Marisa, but I know where and why some of the standards are set. People want a presentable, professional looking maps to draw in new members and allow full combos for EVERYTHING. Challenge maps are really just going in the approved section now.
If I was still active I'd totally support you on this and mini-mod your maps, (my way of saying mod them without being a BAT) but I totally feel for you.
If you're still here, I just want to say, people like you were the reason that kept me in, and I know lots of them have left (including me I guess), you leaving too won't draw them back. I liked you, even if it came across as otherwise, and don't think you need to quit, maybe talk to peppy (in a polite-ish way) about how you feel and maybe something could be worked out. Maybe you could get a mod for #Chinese?
Oh, well. Sorry for the jumbledness and TL;DR of this post I just kind of typed random things. Like with some of my posts I just guess I fell on my keyboard and kept going. :roll: I hope my input helps.



Anyways, the loss of some really great members of the community is obvious. Some of them dissapear, some of them say goodbye, some of them still sort of use the forums, and some of them make big long posts that piss peppy off.

I know I'm a member many of you view negatively and noncontributing, but I'm attempting to be straightforward constructive with this thread.

I think in this thread we should discuss our opinions on how to handle the growing community and put our input in on what we think should be done to improve osu! as a whole in a democratic manner. I would also ask you to keep a professional mannerism within your posts and keep trolling and memes to a minimum. C'mon guys, let's actually be constructive. What do you think we should do to solve peoples problems like Darrihuka's? Or do you think we should at all?

Sorry if it's to long or dumb.
lukewarmholiday
Oh wow he locked it?

I'm going to say this in as few words as possible.

fail. Well I can't really say that since it was just turning into a flame thread. :/

If this thread is locked

double fail.




Right now I don't know what to do, I cant blame the moderation system other than at times it is a tad strict. But it's not fun to make maps that are unmodded, then bumping them every other freaking day. With the moderator to mapper ratio this bloat is doomed to happen but I'm seriously about to call it quits since I cant take the boredom.

Hell I've just let Propane nightmares fall into the GY and that's probably my most rankable map atm aside from possible offset tweakage.

This is kind of just my own issue but now I know other mappers are feeling the same way. I just don't want to bring something up that I have no clue as to how to fix.

Lukewarm wrote:

As of now a few BATs I feel are taking guidelines as rules. or perhaps beatmappers are taking BATs suggestions as "CHANGE OR ELSE" statements.
I also don't think BATs simply have the time to exchange back and forth reasons for the nazi and the reasons for the beatmapper to not accept the nazi. But as a beatmapper you do have to know when to object. And BATs need to go back and think, is this really tripping this map up to the point it's a plain bad map?
Topic Starter
Pokebis
Oh and I know some one might say you should voice your opinion at the 4th community meeting instead. Well, a lot of players are in the USA and it's scheduled to be in the middle of the night then. Other countries could be at an inconvenient time as well. That being said, I'll go ahead and confirm I won't be attending this time around. I feel we need a place just to discuss our opinions, don't consider this like a permanent community meeting. And peppy doesn't need to really read every post either, I know he already has a lot to read, if anyone has a post that they really want peppy to read they could PM him the post number. But I have no control over peppy so he may read it anyways.
Cheers.
awp

lukewarmholiday wrote:

If this thread is locked

double fail.
k I will lock this thread for the lulz

useful part of message:

There's always an aftermath after the meeting, so not attending doesn't mean you will be ignored by the community. Communities are going to grow inevitably, if you're going to leave every time it grows too large to feel like your own slice of internet heaven any more you might as well brand yourself an escaped felon, because I don't think that'll ever stop happening. osu! happens to have a very respectable and responsible administrator/founder/etc-title though so even if things become shitty, I expect it will be for only a brief period of time while the staff all butt heads and figure out how to keep everything awesome.
Jarby
''Quit for good''

''5 hours ago
darrihuka achieved rank #65 on Dan Balan - Crazy Loop (mm ma ma) [Hard] (osu!)''
RemmyX25
I was in the same position as Pokebis; I actually read the entire thread generating my own comments and opinions to find it locked.

I actually am in agreement against the new ranking criteria. But all I have to say about it probably already has been mentioned. I remember when there was a disagreement with an authentic map not able to be ranked because of a spacing issue, yet it was exactly as Ouendan1 had it. I don't exactly remember the aftermath of that debate, I wasn't around.

lukewarmholiday: Don't even start.
....
I had a lot more to say, but I forgot it....

I'll edit the post when i think of it.


Ninja'd by awp, obligatory agreement:
I'm sure things will even out. I mean come on, even if I never get that BAT position i've been trying to get for a while now, I wouldn't quit just over that. I've made closer friends here than I have IRL at my college. People like peppy amaze me at how much shit they can put up with. If he hasn't given up hope on us, why should we?

Ninja'd by JarJar since I get distracted:
hahaha nice.
Rolled
Can all of you just go cry in a mother fucking corner and keep this drama off osu.

Darri isn't dead. Go get his MSN.

I didn't even read this thread but I'm going to lock it. Posting in a locked thread/continuing a locked thread is against the rules anyway.

I hope that last line made somebody rage.
awp
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
peppy
If there's one thing I've learnt in life, its to be open to change. Don't live in the past and complain. If you have a problem with the changes made, do your best to fix it, or at least shape it to your desire.

Please guys, discuss things in a positive light, rather than remniscing on what you may have found your own "mode" in the osu! community at x point of time. People will always leave - there is this thing called real life that tends to affect the majority of us. osu! should be a source of fun and relaxation. It is a game. If you don't get this from it anymore, then it is probably time for you to move on.

No you don't need to share everything you hate about the current community before you do. Unless you are being constructive. Please.
RemmyX25
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
awp
I think partly the reason that thread was locked (I've actually read it) was because whether or not it was constructive, it wasn't giving the impression that it was trying to be. It looks to me that locking it was largely due to the OP being a nexus for a coming shitstorm rather than the following conversation getting out of hand, though that post served as a "mood starter" for subsequent posts to be made in a negative light.

Pokebis' post here could be summarized (albeit very crudely) as a "What the hell, man?" sort of post, but it's done in a more coherent and constructive manner imo. You're better off being heard and taken seriously this way. In my honest opinion, mob mentality is fucking gay and when I see people reflecting it I tend to disregard their opinions as valid (since there's a much greater chance that it isn't, in fact, their own opinion.)
Real1
As peppy stated already, osu! is a game that is meant to be fun and relaxing. It's a rhytm game were we click numbers to the music, not an epic adventure where everything must be thought of! As I joined osu!, I just left one of those MMORPG's because there was so much drama and people complaining too much about crap.

As I joined osu!, I was surprised by the great lack of drama, and I felt "I have finally found a game that's perfect for me". So for me, threads like these are quite depressing. osu! is no place for drama, guys, yet I feel like I'm currently contributing to it. :cry:

People change, games change, everything changes. It's hard to accept that sometimes. (Trust me, I know). But instead of complaining, let's fix the problems in a non-dramatic way. The community meeting is a good place to start.
Are there flaws in the ranking criteria? Sure, but they aren't so bad. Can we come to an agreement on it? Sure.
Is the moderation system currently lacking? Sure. Can we fix it? Of course!

osu! is growing. We all have to grow with it.
Hitoshirenu Shourai
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Sousei
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Download: Sound Horizon - Raijin no Hidariude (AngelHoney) [Kana's Demon].osu
Pasonia
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Utena
Iunno how things are going, been a long time away from here, I hope things works for the best and good luck peppy.
How to improve community?! get more people to help out on the staff team, or decrease the amount of maps players can upload per time, add a notice system that will get added to the topic "Oh hold" or something like that, cause while I was still playing, uploading ur map here wa like having a fake pregnancy, your baby will never see the light.
I do say theres too much testosterone on the staff team.


Regardless, hugs and see ya.l :lol:
Mogsy
Okay, to everyone complaining about the beatmap quality standards:

The thing is, these restrictions restrict for a reason: to make maps, you know, playable. If you're going to say that it creates many a homogenous map, blame the mapper, not the standards. We're only setting a list of guidelines, you're allowed to be creative and still be held to a set of mapping standards. If you think you can't create something because of the guidelines, then either think harder or just don't map and stop complaining.

To everyone complaining about BAT 'inactivity' and the sudden surge of activity:

A) We are volunteers. and we do our very best to remain active (well, most of us).
B) Some of the inactive BATs are at fault since by agreeing to be a BAT demands a certain time committment.
C) We don't discriminate between what maps we mod and what maps we don't, for the most part. I personally apologize for not looking at as many maps as I should (mostly in part due to only taking requests for awhile, which screwed over anyone not in IRC).
D) If anybody feels like their map is being ignored (i.e. no response in a few weeks), bump the map (either by post or by the in-game bumping method). It'll help us notice it.
E) Some mods might want to check maps that are further down the pages in Pending, since we have found maps near the end that are perfectly capable of being ranked (Reach out to the Truth, for instance).
Rolled

Pasonia wrote:

Unfortunately though, it stopping is not as simple as locking the thread because locking any thread in such a manner suggests evasiveness, and that doesn't sound very nice. If we can be a bit more open on the matter and refuse to let whatever perceived "personal vendettas" to get in the way, then I daresay we'll make much more progress on this thread.
This was the case for me, and I apologize to Pokebis and everybody else taking part in this thread.

I was out of line for locking it without reading/reason. It has been a very e-stressful couple of days involving certain members having large dicks up their asses and complaining how much it hurts.

In short though, and to somewhat justify why I was so stressed out, there is nothing that was mentioned in this thread (or the darri one) that has not been mentioned numerous times before on either IRC or the forums. We know there are problems with the approval system, which is why this meeting spawned. It has been talked about in the mod lounge for weeks now about what we could do to improve it, etc. New people are getting new roles. Ivalset is in charge of managing BAT's, appointing new ones, possibly doing things to motivate the not-so-active ones. Members of the community are going to have the power to make an impact in the beatmap forums, without even being a BAT. I know we tell you this all the time, "You help us a lot just by modding maps, even though you're not on BAT," but now you will able to have something to show for your work. You'll have an approval ranking just like BAT's, so we will know if you are doing a good job and it will be rewarded. You will have the ability to star beatmaps, and stack stars. So if you really thing x beatmap should be ranked, show your interest and a BAT will undoubtfully notice.

It's just a matter of time. Try to cope with your bottled up emotions for now and let them all out at this meeting. Many, many things will be accomplished.

Topic Starter
Pokebis
You know, I really love that idea, and I may get back into osu! to see how it goes. :D
Echo
I posted this in the other thread (in AW):

Echo wrote:

I manipulate the spacing on all of my maps. Distance snap is meant to be a guide, not an absolute thing that you must follow. The criteria is intuitive. Distance snap gives the most basic level of intuition possible. You can build on that. Unfortunately most people can't.

We try to map base on FFFanatic (not with bad spacing, etc. but how mapper's feeling of using the playfield to map creatively) but BATs say most of the time "this is wrong, that is wrong."
Unfortunately, no one can get it right. So it's wrong. What people think is "creativity" is usually bad spacing. You make a map that is actually like an fff map and i'll insta-rank it. So far I have yet to see anything even remotely similar to an fff map.
When I say bad spacing, I mean as in BAD spacing. It's not intuitive. There is a big difference between intuitive spacing changes and BAD spacing.

The easiest way to help with correcting bad spacing is to use distance snap as much as possible. Until you get the hang of intuitive spacing, distance snap is the only tool you get.

Darri had the ability to do it, but he left.
awp
May I just say, peppy's also really good at that intuitive spacing thing.
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