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Apply Custom Hitsounds Directly to Slider Ticks

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +7
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG
This has been brought up before, but the original thread didn't focus on this.

~Chances are, you've seen a "Barcode Beatmap" before. These are beatmaps that use Inherited Sections to insert a different slidertick into the middle of a slider. For Example: Jumper /http://osu.ppy.sh/s/21130/ Heck, even I have one. However, after looking at the process, I think that it should be much, much easier.

~My Suggestion is that we implement a different method to interact with the slider ticks. A more convenient way. We should be able to double click a slidertick and apply a hitsound (whistle/clap/finish).

~You might be thinking: "No, why would I want to apply a regular hitsound to the slidertick, it would sound terrible." I would agree with this statement. I suggest though, that we would be able to set different files for each slidertick hitsound similar to how we normally insert custom hitsounds.
normal-slidertick-whistle
If this was implemented, it would make adding custom hitsounds to the sliderticks a much easier process. It would also allow mappers to make more complex slidertick patterns than we have now (since you could represent multiple background instruments on a slider at the same time).
FireballFlame
280 posts
Joined May 2010
FireballFlame
Sliderticks are not supposed to have different sounds assigned to them.

First of all, making them sound the same as hitobjects is unacceptable. But even if they get different sounds it's kinda bad practice imo. Sliderticks are quite unimportant for gameplay and lots of people completely ignore them when playing, so they shouldn't stand out too much.
It's okay if done in a subtle way, but that's already possible. Making a special feature for that, on the other hand, would encourage doing it and probably lead to a lot of abuse, so I'm not supporting this.
Azure_Kite
osu! Alumni
3,217 posts
Joined February 2009
Azure_Kite
I mostly agree with Fireball here. The Slider ticks are generally perceived as minor additions to sliders, to help the player calculate slider speed, as well as to slightly fill in sounds to the BPM during a slider. I myself have done this before, with some of my earlier maps, but I don't do it anymore.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
As Fireball said, sliderticks are not supposed to have hitsound effects like the other notes, sliderticks may have custom hitsounds used throughout the whole bunch of sliders if the mapper wants, but i've always been against adding hitsounds to sliderticks for this one reason, if you need to add a clap or a finish, etc to a slidertick, most probably the slider doesnt even fit the song at all.
Mismagius
9,263 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius
However, for some easier maps, you'd have to map a slider that starts in a white tick and ends in a red tick right after the next white tick. Then, assuming you have tick rate 1, it would fit a lot more to have a non-tick hitsound there, however adding 2 1/2 notes on a easy diff would be too hard. This is when you use hitsounds as ticks.

I support this, even though devs don't agree with it, so it's going to get denied.
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG

FireballFlame wrote:

Sliderticks are not supposed to have different sounds assigned to them.

First of all, making them sound the same as hitobjects is unacceptable.
As I already said in my post. That would suck.

But even if they get different sounds it's kinda bad practice imo. Sliderticks are quite unimportant for gameplay and lots of people completely ignore them when playing, so they shouldn't stand out too much.
Unimportant you say? [sarcasm]Maybe we should remove them altogether and ruin the entire game.[/sarcasm] Personally I disagree, I've played sliders that POP thanks to a custom slidertick.
It's okay if done in a subtle way, but that's already possible. Making a special feature for that, on the other hand, would encourage doing it and probably lead to a lot of abuse, so I'm not supporting this.
The very act of having an edit mode in the game leads to abuse. I have only seen this technique used by good mappers who want their maps to sound/look good.
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled

Sakura Hana wrote:

if you need to add a clap or a finish, etc to a slidertick, most probably the slider doesnt even fit the song at all.
Complete bullshit, but it seems to be the accepted "norm" now around osu.

Keep using those tick-sounds, brotha. This feature will never get added, though (for good reason pretty much)
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Ok i probably worded that wrong, i meant to say the slider doesnt fit your current hitsound pattern XD
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
The idea that sliderticks are not supposed to have hitsounds added to them appalls me. No, it horrors me.

If a map is mapped strictly to the drums, chances are you don't have to use ticksounds. And, chances are, your map is a boring, all-1/2 map that sucks.

Still don't understand why sliderticks need hitsounds? Look at the Easy, Normal, and Insane difficulties of this map.

I am all for this feature. Although I have seldom thought the "barcoding process" to be tedious, I bet there are people who skip the whole process even if they want to because they are too lazy to do so. This feature should encourage them to embellish their maps with better hitsounding overall. Support.
Soaprman
1,392 posts
Joined January 2008
Soaprman
Most of the time I've heard these, they sounded kind of bad. Doesn't mean they're a bad idea, though, and making them less tedious to do might bring some good uses out of hiding. Support.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
Alternatively, if as a mapper you really, really, really really

want a hitsound on a slidertick, do us all a favor and do what every normal hitsound does - overlap the slidertick hitsound with whatever fancy schmancy crap you're doing, rather than directly replace it.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

theMikeAG wrote:

The very act of having an edit mode in the game leads to abuse. I have only seen this technique used by good mappers who want their maps to sound/look good.
This.

Some mappers don't use custom slidertick sounds, but instead SB a normal hitsound over the slidertick. This Feature Request is not talking about that; I think some of you are confusing the two.

That said, I certainly have no problem with this as long as it'd be put in the way the OP suggested. I mean, you can already do what he's saying with custom hitsounds and inherited timing sections anyways, it's just troublesome.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
There is no logical reason to be against this really, it is ALREADY DOABLE and CERTAINLY ALLOWED UNDER THE RANKING RULES/GUIDELINES, it's just making the process a bit easier. This is NOT a new concept.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn

KRZY wrote:

There is no logical reason to be against this really, it is ALREADY DOABLE and CERTAINLY ALLOWED UNDER THE RANKING RULES/GUIDELINES, it's just making the process a bit easier. This is NOT a new concept.
there is no logical reason for it if it's already an "oh-so-advanced" mapping technique and is used only rarely and would require a hell of a lot of clever coding.
Mismagius
9,263 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

Shiirn wrote:

KRZY wrote:

There is no logical reason to be against this really, it is ALREADY DOABLE and CERTAINLY ALLOWED UNDER THE RANKING RULES/GUIDELINES, it's just making the process a bit easier. This is NOT a new concept.
there is no logical reason for it if I don't agree with it.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn

Blue Dragon wrote:

Shiirn wrote:

there is no logical reason for either side and it is entirely opinion-based
fixed for you

also this would require a chunk of coding and clever mods to the editor and wouldn't get used much (comparatively)
Waryas
Waryas

Sakura Hana wrote:

its completely unnecessary.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY

Shiirn wrote:

KRZY wrote:

There is no logical reason to be against this really, it is ALREADY DOABLE and CERTAINLY ALLOWED UNDER THE RANKING RULES/GUIDELINES, it's just making the process a bit easier. This is NOT a new concept.
there is no logical reason for it if it's already an "oh-so-advanced" mapping technique and is used only rarely and would require a hell of a lot of clever coding.

It's not you who decides whether the effort put into coding it would outweigh the benefits it would give to mappers; it is peppy. Having said that, you are under no restriction to voice your opinion as to whether it will be really helpful when implemented, but as you have also pointed out, it is opinion-based. I guess this particular branch of the argument stops here.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn

KRZY wrote:

It's not you who decides whether the effort put into coding it would outweigh the benefits it would give to mappers; it is peppy. Having said that, you are under no restriction to voice your opinion as to whether it will be really helpful when implemented, but as you have also pointed out, it is opinion-based. I guess this particular branch of the argument stops here.
The entire point of feature requests is that peppy and/or people able to implement such features would be able to see public opinion before deciding for themselves (although the final decision rests with them). The entire point is for public opinion to influence their decision.
Waryas
Waryas
The main argument is "Are there MANY songs/maps who would benefit from this?"
If yes then I'm all for it..
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Ideally, all the ticks inside a single slider would sound similar to each other. If one stands out, it's counterintuitive to the player.
It's especially bad if that sound is one of the regular hitsounds, since the player will already have an association built between that sound and the few gameplay interactions it's associated with.
Implementation is also a pain. You need to make each individual tick somehow "selectable." They don't show on the timeline so that would need to be changed. It's not worth it for something that has no logical benefit.

I thought of applying a different ticksound to whistle sliders. (The sound would stay the same for the entire slider, of course.)
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
I would prefer hitsounds to be storyboardable.

We already have a conditional trigger loop. If we could get sounds to go there as well, it would be awesome.

The way we have it now you are limited to 6 slider ticks, and 18+6 normal hitsounds. That's not nearly enough if you want to make an authentic DJMAX song, since you can only customize 4 groups.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
I've already got other plans for this.
(Hint: Look in Timing Setup.)

Storyboards and hitsounds need to be kept well apart. For everyone's sake.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

mm201 wrote:

I've already got other plans for this.
(Hint: Look in Timing Setup.)

Storyboards and hitsounds need to be kept well apart. For everyone's sake.
I agree, but if they are in a conditional trigger, they are functionally identical as a new timing section.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
Guess barcoding is still the best choice we've got.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish

KRZY wrote:

There is no logical reason to be against this really, it is ALREADY DOABLE and CERTAINLY ALLOWED UNDER THE RANKING RULES/GUIDELINES, it's just making the process a bit easier. This is NOT a new concept.
Actually, just so you know, the new ranking guidelines strongly warn against ticksounds and don't allow ticksounds that are identical to hitsounds. So yeah, it kinda isn't allowed under the ranking rules/guidelines.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Ummm they're allowed to be existing sounds (but strongly discouraged) as long as the volume is much less.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY

RandomJibberish wrote:

So yeah, it kinda isn't allowed under the ranking rules/guidelines.






Slidertick hitsounds can be/are used accordingly, I use them, several other mappers use them. I will by no means stop using them, and neither should the mappers who use them correctly.

But then, the discussion digresses. Please continue on with relevant discussion, I am out of this topic.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi

Rolled wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

if you need to add a clap or a finish, etc to a slidertick, most probably the slider doesnt even fit the song at all.
Complete bullshit, but it seems to be the accepted "norm" now around osu.

Keep using those tick-sounds, brotha. This feature will never get added, though (for good reason pretty much)
I was just waiting for you to post.

If anyone wants to learn how to hitsound sliderticks, just look at Rolleds maps <3
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure
This idea is really convenient way for using ticksound.
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG

mm201 wrote:

If one stands out, it's counterintuitive to the player.
It's especially bad if that sound is one of the regular hitsounds, since the player will already have an association built between that sound and the few gameplay interactions it's associated with.
I've always found this argument kind of strange. I've heard some people rationalize that everybody's going to combobreak because a slidertick sounds a little different. I don't know about most players, but I pay attention to the game when I play.

Ideally, this feature would be used to map complicated sound patterns that you couldn't replicate without downright streaming (Stuff like Amen Breaking), or to represent instruments that go unmapped (Have a unique tick to emphasis the drums in a beatmap focused on the vocals). If properly utilized, these slidertick hitsounds could have an intuitive pattern that better fits the song.

Implementation is also a pain. You need to make each individual tick somehow "selectable." They don't show on the timeline so that would need to be changed. It's not worth it for something that has no logical benefit.
I actually didn't think about making ticks show up on the timeline. That actually sounds like a pain. :o

Forgive me, I don't have any programming experience, but it seems like most of the programming required to implement this could just be duplicated from other elements. You would have to make a hitbox for sliderticks, sure, but the method of selecting them and applying a hitsound would be the same as with sliderends.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

theMikeAG wrote:

I pay attention to the game when I play.
Since this is a music game, paying attention to the audio is paramount.

Useful situations for this are rare enough that it's just not worth it.
What happens when you try to move the slider and accidentally select a tick? Or try to set its slide sounds but unknowingly have a tick selected. It's UI clutter that would just get in the way of 90% of mappers.
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby
I've only ever seen one map do custom ticksounds right, so please excuse me if I don't want to encourage this.
Gonzvlo
osu! Alumni
2,896 posts
Joined January 2010
Gonzvlo
"Barcoding" is most of the times created to change hitsounds from Normal to Soft Override or to reduce volume constantly for specific parts, just making that clear.
Bara-
11,976 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
BUMP
Would be really cool
This would allow for better hitsounding in easies, and in 'oddly snapped', like xxxxoxxoxxxxoxxo The o is empty, but it takes the 'space of the clap'
I would really want to see this tbh
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
Bumping from t/339123/start=0 because yes.

Yauxo wrote:

It's not recommended - I think that's a somewhat old relic of the ranking criteria.

Slidertickhitsounds are extemely helpful for Beginner/Easy/Normal diffs if youre using long Sliders and thus skipping important beats for it to be easy (because eh, ranking criteria). To compensate for the "feedback" effect, tickhitsounds are less loud - I guess that could be automated when implemented properly?

Also, why do we have Slidertickhitsounds in the first place if we're supposed not to use them for a better cause .-.

Yauxo wrote:

Desperate-kun wrote:

Slidertick hitsounds are badly used in most mapsets. They are basically a no-go in Hard / Insane, and are overused / misused in Easy / Normal. I would not like to see this feature implemented, as it will be hard to keep people from abusing / overusing slidertick hitsounds. Honestly, if your timeline looks like this
due to slidertick hitsounds, you should probably reconsider your hitsounding (and what instruments you actually follow, even in Easy / Normal).
I have to disagree with that. We're supposed to hitsound things properly reasonable throughout the entire diff, and that's what Iam doing.
I absolutely hate the sound of the ticking in Easy diffs if it just doesnt fit to a) the song and b) other diffs with proper hitsounds. Sliderhitsounds would fix exactly that and allow for a "better" (I guess that is up to the player) experience. We already have to endure an annoying tick that doesnt fit to the music, why cant we have a tick that supports the music (with lowered volume to not completely distract)?
Song of my greenline massacre: http://puu.sh/itYzl/a5903d5e53.osz

I mean, if we're really about subjectivity, things like Kiai flashes, Slider as opposed to Spinner (Easy/Normal diffs as example, due to the ms limitation) and similar shouldnt be a thing either then.
Last edited by Yauxo , edited 2 times in total.
Bara-
11,976 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
From ^^

baraatje123 wrote:

YES PLEASE
This'll save so much time

Some examples (they are links)


Deva
2,343 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva
You made my post pointless ;_;

HK_ wrote:

I think that with this easy/normal diffs would get less annoying when you actually are listening to hitsounds, I find them really misleading tbh. And it would actually help newbs to actually start listening to them instead of developing some bad habits about hitsounds and just never use them properly.
Mandatory AR11 mention
lao sai
36 posts
Joined May 2018
lao sai
so basically i cant add hitsounds on a slidertick? pain
Zelzatter Zero
3,981 posts
Joined October 2016
Zelzatter Zero

lao sai wrote:

so basically i cant add hitsounds on a slidertick? pain
Yes you can, just not in a way you want it to be.
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