[proposal - mania] change 3 consecutive 1/4 rule in normal to guideline · forum

Scotty

Nomination Assessment Team

Joined October 2017

Topic Starter

Scotty 2019-10-16T14:10:14+00:00

rc wrote:
If Normal is the lowest difficulty of a beatmap set, it has to abide by these additional rules:

Consecutive 1/4 snaps may only be three notes long. More dense rhythms are not appropriate for the lowest difficulty of a beatmap set.

under the current rc, this rule quickly becomes far too restrictive and almost unreasonable in many cases especially when mapping lower BPM songs and/or songs which have important sounds occurring on blue ticks.

since this is a rule, a hypothetical 90 BPM map with the lowest difficulty being a normal would have to be disqualified if the normal happened to have a case of having more than 3 consecutive 1/4 notes which i'm sure almost anybody would agree is absurd.

the previous example is pretty exaggerated and the obvious answer to that scenario is to apply reasonable judgement based on the maps BPM and other factors. however if that is the case then it'd make much more sense for this to be a guideline instead of a rule as it is something that requires judgement on a case-by-case basis.

proposed change: change this rule into a guideline for when a normal diff is the lowest diff of a set. maybe also change the wording to 'Consecutive 1/4 notes should be no longer than 3 notes' as currently it looks as if 2 consecutive notes aren't allowed either due to the wording.

Last edited by Scotty 2019-10-16T14:17:39+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

-MysticEyes

Beatmap Nominator

490 posts

Joined April 2015

-MysticEyes 2019-10-20T12:56:17+00:00

Definitely agree with this

As you said the current rule doesn't take lower BPMs into account and unreasonably limits musical representation. Hopefully this change will make normal diffs more accessible to make for mappers

Zoop

abraker

Global Moderator

8,327 posts

Joined July 2014

abraker 2019-10-23T02:22:00+00:00

Having this be judged on a case-by-case basis opens up possibility of a gray area on certain borderline bpm that is not slow but not fast that would garner mixed opinions and lead to extended debates. I feel like there should be something more formulaic, closer to the lines of "more than X consecutive notes spaced T ms apart is not allowed" kind of thing.

Last edited by abraker 2019-10-23T02:23:04+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Scotty

Nomination Assessment Team

286 posts

Joined October 2017

Topic Starter

Scotty 2019-10-23T21:51:37+00:00

abraker wrote:
Having this be judged on a case-by-case basis opens up possibility of a gray area on certain borderline bpm that is not slow but not fast that would garner mixed opinions and lead to extended debates. I feel like there should be something more formulaic, closer to the lines of "more than X consecutive notes spaced T ms apart is not allowed" kind of thing.

while using time between notes does make the rule a lot more specific and fixes the issue of how it would work with different BPMs, it also makes things a lot more complicated as you can imagine how awkward it would be if people had to calculate how much 1/4 of a beat is in ms for every different song they map. it also might be a bit unfair as suddenly patterns 1 ms slower than the rule are allowed but patterns 1 ms faster are unrankable despite them playing pretty much the exact same.

however the main issue with restricting 1/4 patterns at a specific note count is that the difficulty level of 1/4 patterns doesn't only depend on their length and speed. chords, column placement and surrounding patterns also factor heavily into how the 1/4 patterns would play out. this is why i think it would be more effective to use a guideline instead of a hard fixed note count.

Last edited by Scotty 2019-10-23T21:53:05+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

abraker

Global Moderator

8,327 posts

Joined July 2014

abraker 2019-10-24T01:34:06+00:00

For the calculation I was thinking AImod. As for the rest, all good points I can't argue against.

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Feerum

osu! Alumni

2,042 posts

Joined August 2014

Feerum 2019-10-25T23:05:24+00:00

Greetings!

Alright so i discussed this with my new colleague Leniane and we came to the conclusion that moving this into the Guideline would be alright.
Right now it's really restricting especially on drastically higher or slower BPM.

It also would work then with the following sentence which is at the beginning of it:
"[...]Rhythm related guidelines apply to approximately 180 BPM maps. If your song is drastically faster or slower, some variables might be different. Apply reasonable judgement in these cases."

There isn't much more to say. We decided for following wording:

"Consecutive 1/4 notes should not be longer than 3 notes. More dense rhythms are not appropriate for the lowest difficulty of a beatmap set."

Since it's a guideline we replaced "may not" to "should not". And we keep the sentence after it because removing it could let imply that using something higher than 1/4 is no problem.

So yeah, overall. Green light for this change from our side!