I think this would be very nice because this situation happens alot.

I feel like this was discussed but can't really find it. NF's purpose is to discourage players playing maps way above their skill level. If they don't technically fail with it, I don't see the issue of processing the play is if it's not there.

On the other hand, this would lead to players always having NF on as a fallback way to get something from the map

Kinda agreeing with Abraker (for once, jk idk) on that one. Also I think NF is a mental state you get : "I don't plan on actually godmoding this map" or something along thoses lines, it's a surrender to yourself but allowing you to play maps above your skillcap regardless. For this reason, I don't think allowing to dynamically remove it should be a good idea.

Well if you want to extend this discussion to be more critical, this request is practically asking to ignore HP. At this point why not remove it? Let's explore the point of HP in terms of performance calculation and who it is meant for.

A play with or without NF is the same play. The only thing is the HP ending your play prematurely if you happen to suck too much. Yet no matter what the performance is, it still should be worth something. From that perspective, HP is a really illogical thing to have. Yet suppose you want an indicator saying you suck. Then it's perfect! Common argument for NF is to discourage player from playing maps above their skill level. That's fine, but we never considered why a player would be discouraged from doing so.


Let me describe two types of players: The ones that are here to have fun and the ones that are here to compete.

For a player here to have fun, the best gameplay is one that is lenient free-for-all, something of a wacky or berserk type. This means you go really fast and spam all over the place a get a reward for doing so. This means they like to play hard maps, spam all about, get something for it. Remember, it doesn't really matter to them whether they are playing the game the proper way or not. They are here to have fun. OP seems to be the prime example of such player. Accuracy is low but is already going for 5* maps while ranked 300k. Heck, 179 tries on Freedom Dive... wow. Possibly wants to improve, but also probably has too much fun doing the crazy hard stuff to take improving seriously as of yet.

For a skillful player, the best gameplay is one that is strict and follows certain rules, possibly even in a controlled setting. This means tight restrictions on what is allowable and such players have to go fast and precise. Such players are here to compete against one another, and train hard in specific skills and mods. For such players it is beneficial to have HP as an indicator that they should not continue playing the map anymore. xenal retried Everything Will Freeze [Lunatic] 424 times and Blue Zenith [ktgster's Extreme] 401 times probably not to have fun mashing through the circles, but to finally pass it those maps and be proud of doing so.


So who is right? Both sides are are, but unfortunately the more skillful players will have more say in this due to their status. It doesn't benefit the skillful players to have HP invalidated, and doing so will very likely lead to a tantrum of nuclear proportions. You are probably better off forking osu!lazer later on and adjusting it to satisfy the lenient free-for-all style more suitable for the casual players with a pseudo-leaderboard of some sort, idk. Leaderboards don't sound like a good thing to have for such style gameplay. Maybe bronze, silver gold medals or some other rank/3 reward similar to what piano tiles has.

abraker wrote:

xenal retried Everything Will Freeze [Lunatic] 424 times and Blue Zenith [ktgster's Extreme] 401 times probably not to have fun mashing through the circles, but to finally pass it those maps and be proud of doing so.

Was actually trying to fc both of thoses, but cursed maps (also was challenged to singletap everything will freeze at one point (including streams)) :3

Tho, extending the discussion beyond to point of view of players, I'm just going to add a short exemple of a mapper perspective.
As said before, having the option to remove NF if not failed, hp becomes useless as explained by abraker.
I have a unsubmitted map which used a kinda weird flow and I wanted to prevent players to cheese the patterns by pushing hp higher than the usual, killing anyone not following what I wanted them to follow.
Removing hp just doesn't work out as well, as players won't be as stressed to fail, since it's no longer possible basically.

I don't see any reason to add this, the only reason that bar would go down is if you miss or get 50.

I personally always go for S and the same for the majority of the players on osu! which is why this addition would be useless.

If I do get a Miss then I retry and do the map again.

I can only see new players using this feature in the normal game but even so most of them wouldn't receive a scoreboard place on a map (no offence)

NimbleBiter wrote:

If I do get a Miss then I retry and do the map again.

Fcing maps isn't the concern here, but more about maps with skill level much higher than the player skill cap, maps played for fun instead of PP.