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Daniele Meo - Adesso Balla

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Rukario
General:
- Uhm who made the Easy diff? It has an additional name so I suppose it's a guest diff but the guest diff mapper should be in the tags. Please add him to the tags.
- Why is "TheManInTheMoon" in the source? Please explain me how it is relevant.
- In the Normal difficulty the first combo colour is different tha in the other difficulties. Please open the .osu files and check the properties.
- Like we said in #modhelp you should really look at the length of your map. Consider making it shorter.

Anto's Easy:
Why is this difficulty only mapped to half of the mp3? it really feels incomplete. I would suggest to map this to the end.
01:08:791 (1,2,3,4) - and 01:12:220 (1,2,3,4) - these two combos felt really weird, the placement on the timeline feels a bit off. Maybe try with a little something like this?

01:16:077 - and 01:17:791 - here add a note? it really feels like there is missing something there.
Other than that this is a pretty nice easy.

Normal:
00:35:362 (2) - I think this was on accident on the blue tick? If not then it sounds really awful, please move the end to the white tick.
00:51:648 (1,2,1,2,1) - This spacing change really threw me off. Maybe try a little something like this.
01:09:220 - Add a note here? It really feels like you wanna hit something there. If you change this please do it in the following combos too.
01:35:362 (2,3) - Oh hello Anti-jump that is out of nowhere and shouldn't be placed in a Normal diff. Please respace this.
02:33:220 (2) - This feels really boring. Maybe split this repeat slider into two slider with both having one repeat. Feels way better.
02:36:648 (2) - Oh hello anti-jump, also this ^
03:01:934 - Put a Note here. Felt like it was missing because there was a strong beat in the song.

Hard:
00:31:720 (4,5) - Move both one grid to the middle for beter symmetric.
00:32:791 (1,2,3,4) - The jumps feels better like this.
00:38:577 (2,3) - This jump really feels wrong. It has really bad flow too, aybe put (2) on the middle line?
00:39:648 (1,2,3,4) - Here I would suggest something similar to the thing I mentioned before at 00:32:791 (1,2,3,4) -
01:09:220 - Add a note here? It really feels like you wanna hit something there. If you change this please do it in the following combos too.
01:42:648 (6,7,8) - I don't agree with this anti-jump. It reall takes the speed out this pattern which it gained here. Also with these anti-jumps 1/4 notes are often relly hard to make out.
01:59:148 (2,3) - Really? I felt like this was a 1/4 note really.
02:08:791 (1,2) - Yu can easily avoid anti jumps like this if you just vertically flip 02:09:220 (2,3,4) -
02:32:577 (6,1) - Space this out a bit more (6) a bit away from the 1/4 double.
02:34:934 (2) - *sigh* You really like anti jumps huh? again vertical flip 02:34:934 (2,3,4) -
02:41:791 (2) - ^ but reverse selction 02:41:791 (2,3) - and stack 4 now with (2) again.
02:43:505 (2,3,4,1) - Horizontal flip to avoid the anti-jump.
02:54:648 (6) - Bah, just change this anti-jump. BTW I am always pointing out the things with anti jumps that screwed me over in testplay.
02:59:148 (3,4) - Pretty big jump huh? I suggest a reverse slection of (4). You gotta change 03:00:005 (5) - then obviously otherwise we accomplished nothing ;)
03:08:362 (5,6,7) - 01:42:648 (6,7,8) - I don't agree with this anti-jump. It reall takes the speed out this pattern which it gained here. Also with these anti-jumps 1/4 notes are often relly hard to make out.
03:30:648 (4) - Reverse Selection, because it really doesn't feel like it needs a jump.
03:49:291 (3) - Really? I felt like this was a 1/4 note really.
03:51:220 (4) - Bah, just change this anti-jump. I can approve of the next one that make a new combo.
04:04:934 (5) - ^
04:49:077 (4) - Stack with (2) maybe? Otherwise weird jump.

Wow, here is my first ever MAT mod post. Now feel special lol. But I have to say overall really good mapset, just please let the guest mapper finish Easy.
If the Easy is mapepd to the end I am glad to recheck this map, but for now no star.
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro
Changed something.

I will keep the Easy short because 5mins of 1/4 doesn't seems fun to me.
Kamure
Nothing for me to say.....

Star!!
aesopl19193
Hi, sorry for my late :D
all comments are suggestion only, feel free to ignore them if you don't like.

[Hard]
02:01:934 (7) - new combo
03:44:791 (1,2,3,5,1) - whistle?
03:46:934 (2) - whistle at start and the end?
03:47:791 (3) - whistle?
03:48:220 (1) - whistle at start and the end?
03:48:862 (2) - whistle at the end?
03:49:505 (4) - whistle at start?
...and go on until 04:11:362
04:12:648 (2) - clap at start?
04:13:505 (5) - clap?
04:14:362 (2) - clap at start?
04:15:220 (3) - clap?
...and go on until 04:39:005 (follow the music)

[Normal]
01:37:720 (5,3) - 1 grid up

[Easy]
01:27:220 (4,5,6,7) - I think they are too hard for easy,consider not overlap them?
01:44:148 (2,3) - ^ , consider just make a triple silder?
01:46:291 (6) - ^ , consider to delete this note?

Good spacing!
star.
nimi
bg antigo > isso. esse tem menos a ver que o outro, mas tá neah 8D
cesc
Hitsounds and NewCombo mod ready for Anto's Easy..
(..soon the mod of your diffs @@) + star

Download: Daniele Meo - Adesso Balla (Original Mix) (AdRon Zh3Ro) [Anto's Easy].osu
Jarby
Set preview point at 01:49:934 -

Hard:

01:42:648 (6,7,8,1) - Sorry, I really don't think this spacing change works.
01:55:934 (3,4) - This one is a lot worse though.
01:59:148 (2,3,4) - This is very cramped and confusing to play.
02:08:791 (1,2,3,4,5) - Again, very confusing. I suggest switching to something like this.
02:31:934 (3,4,5,6) - More confusion. More like this.

I gave up here. Do something about all the nonsensical spacing changes.
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro
My pc has broken, so it may take a while so i check everything '~_~

EDIT: I'm god...
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro

cesc wrote:

Hitsounds and NewCombo mod ready for Anto's Easy..
(..soon the mod of your diffs @@) + star
Whistles seems pretty weird for me ~_~

I may add this but, i don't want to add anothing more on the other diffs. They are alredy good in my point of view.
vivere
Hiiii :>

[Anto's Easy]:

02:17:362 - 02:19:077 (x)- Put a spinner. With this, the song sounds much better... imo
02:19:077- Put an timing point with Kiai
02:19:505- End of Kiai


I love this difficulty, congrats Anto :P

[Normal]:

00:29:362 (3)- New Combo
00:32:791 (3)- ^

01:16:934 (4)- 1 grid to right
01:18:648 (4)- 1 grid to left
01:20:362 (4)- 1 grid to down
01:24:005 (4)- New Combo
01:25:077 (1)- Remove New Combo
01:25:720 (7)- New Combo
01:45:005 (5)- ^

02:54:648 (5)- ^
02:55:077 (1)- Remove New Combo
02:58:291 (9)- New Combo
02:58:505 (1)- Remove New Combo

03:32:791 (1)- ^
03:33:648 (4)- New Combo

04:46:505 (4)- ^
04:49:934 (4)- ^
04:53:362 (5)- ^

About every 1-3, 1-4 to 1-6 go changing New combo.
Anyway, I like the difficulty (:

Hard diff. is well done imo.

I like the song/map
So... I give you a Star :>
Verdisphena
Hard:

01:28:505 (6) - This slider is ugly, make something like this
02:17:362 (6) - Add a note?
Use more hitsounds please
This diff is very confusing --
Normal:

02:17:365 (4) - Add a note?
Nice diff, but a little bit hard for new players, and the same thing, use more hitsounds

Easy:

01:44:148 (2,3) - This is hard for a Easy :c
01:45:862 (5,6) - ^
01:47:362 (2) - Better like this
Nice diff Anto :3

/badmodding
K3nsh1n_H1mur4
[Anto's Easy]

DECENTE! Muito. Um Easy bem interessannte.

[Normal]

Sem problemas, exceto o score de 6kk.

[Hard]

HP -1

01:55:720 (2,3) - Esse Anti-jump ficou meio forçado, porque o 4 tem a mesma distância, é um combo breaker fácil. Eu trocaria. Colocaria o 3 em cima do 2 e o 4 em linha reta abaixo deles.
02:08:791 (1,2,3,4,5) - Ficou confuso na tela. No ouvido faz sentido, mas pela cor do BG/hitcircle não fica tão bem =|
03:08:362 (5,6,7,1) - Esse e o outro é maldade xP
03:48:862 (2,3,4) - Vão chiar, espere. Por mim não tem problema, é quase um insano.

Tem alguns anti-jumps que pra mim não incomodam, já que é ouvir a música e seguir. Mas vai ter reclamação. Não tem o que tirar ou colocar em quesito nota. Muito boa a música e o mapa.


Star.
Sandpig
hi :D

(>'(oo)')> my mod <('(oo)'<)


Hard

01:36:220 - add a note?
01:49:505 (5) - this note is hidden by previous slider and is little hard to read because of the white circles and white background
02:09:220 (2) - add new combo on this note instead of 02:08:791 (1) or stack 02:08:791 (1,2)
02:31:934 (3,4) - spacing. keep 0.8x
02:41:791 (2) - add new combo here instead of 02:41:362 (1)
02:46:505 - add breaktime?
02:54:220 (5,6) - fix spacing or use new combo to help
03:43:077 - add breaktime?
04:04:505 (4,5) - fix spacing or use new combo to help

plays boring...5 minutes vocal map without hitsound.


Normal

03:20:791 (1) - add new combo on it instead of the next circle


Easy

the slider velocity is a little high in this diff.


try to make the rhythm and hitsound better. star
MoonShade
General
- It feels like there has to be more or louder Hitsounds, maybe try to optimize them

Easy
01:25:720 (1,2) - you can use a slider for the 16th instead, because it may be to hard for a beginner to catch these

Normal
00:55:077 (1) - remove new combo?
01:20:791 (1) - ^
02:51:434 (7) - new combo
02:51:648 (1) - remove combo
02:58:291 (8,1) - ^

Hard
01:58:505 (1,2) - there is an overlapping, but you can go without changing it
02:31:934 (3,4) - can't there be more space between those, it feels like there has to be more

Nice Map, Strar~
Guerra
^^
Lanttu
Holy ffff over 5 minutes. @~@ But I'll forgive that because this song is actually quite awesome<3

I'd rename Hard to Insane, Normal to Hard and Easy to Normal. :B

[Hard]
01:28:505 (6) - Maybe rotate this 90 degrees so that it's vertical. Spacing is not nice like that. >:
01:42:648 (6) - New combo since the spacing changes?
01:50:577 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - A bit confusing to me but I guess it's fine. :/
01:52:291 (2,3) - Move these down to fix the spacing?
01:58:505 (1,2,3,4,1) - AAaaaa this totally doesn't look good. Too much stuff in little space, please, can you use somekind of different pattern? ;_;
02:05:362 (1) - Delete new combo and add it to next note?
02:13:934 (1) - Symmetrical nazi; move last square one grid left, two gray squares in the middle both one grid up and towards the middle, then the red square one grid up.
02:20:791 (1) - Delete new combo and move it to next note.
02:34:505 (1) - ^
02:37:934 (1) - ^
02:41:362 (1) - ^
02:43:505 (2) - Not cool spacing, move this at the same spot where the next 1 (02:44:791) is?
02:49:827 (4) - New combo?
02:51:434 (5) - New combo and delete it from next note?
02:54:220 (5,6,1,2,3,4) - Not cool spacing. >: Maybe reverse 3 and 2?
03:01:077 (5) - Again symmetrical nazi; last square one grid right and the red one one grid up.
03:08:362 (5) - New combo?
03:17:362 (1) - Delete new combo and add to next note?
03:21:648 (1) - ^
03:26:791 (3,4) - Maybe move the ends so that they're pointing outward?
03:30:970 (1) - Delete new combo, add to next note?
04:00:220 (1) - ^
04:13:720 (1) - ^
04:17:362 (1) - ^
04:20:577 (1) - ^
04:30:862 (1) - ^
04:44:791 (1) - Move the red square 3 grids left? Same to the next one, but 3 grids right of course.

[Normal]
00:51:648 (1,2,1,2,1) - Spacing. >: Maybe rotate the sliders 45 degrees and make the spacing same as in previous combos?
01:27:434 (3) - New combo?
01:28:934 (1) - Delete new combo?
01:30:005 (4) - New combo, delete the next one?
03:34:505 (1) - Delete new combo, add to next one?
03:37:934 (1,1) - Delete new combos?
03:40:505 (2) - New combo?
04:43:505 (1) - Delete new combo?
05:07:505 (1) - ^

[Easy]
00:45:220 (3) - New combo?
01:17:362 (4) - New combo, delete the next one?
01:19:077 (3) - New combo?

Nice~
Anto
Star
MoodyRPG
Star
Astom
All is fine I think :>
Star~
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro
Thanks man. And everyone too.
Vergence
Modding Time!

Anto's Easy
00:40:505 (4) - A new combo would be nice here :)
01:34:505 (5) - ^
01:56:791 (1) - Add a finish
02:12:648 (4) - New combo

Normal
00:49:505 (2) - Spacing not the same as others :/
00:51:220 (2) - ^
00:52:934 (2) - ^
00:54:648 (2) - ^
01:10:077 (X) - Add a note here
01:11:791 (X) - ^
01:13:505 (X) - ^
01:15:202 (X) - ^
01:15:648 (1) - Add a finish
01:17:648 (1) - ^
01:19:077 (1) - ^
Insert a break at 02:17:470
Insert a break at 02:46:184
The rest are fine :)

Hard
HP Drain Rate +1 and Overall Diff +2 so that the levels are equal
Add some notes at where I point out at Normal
01:56:077 (4) - Move this farther from (3)
Add some break that I pointed out at Normal too!
___________________________________________________
Go for ranking! Havva star!
ayey
Hi , sorry for the late mod , I'm super lazy

Anto's Easy
01:10:505 (1) - New Combo
01:13:934 (1) - ^

Normal
03:14:791 (3) - Add a repetition?

Hard
02:24:862 (2) - Add a repetition ?
02:35:148 (3) - ^

Nice song and BM
Love the patterns , keep up the good work
Starred~
A8mew
Star.
Pesar
Gostei da música,boa sorte ^^
RandomJibberish
General
  1. Set tick rate 2 on all difficulties
  2. Five minutes is too long to be rankable; If you are going for approval you'll need a BAT to bubble, in case you didn't know.
  3. The backdrop is very light and the combo colours blend into it badly, especially during kiai. The two lighter colours are also very similar, so you should Darken and diffrentiate the combo colours.
Hard
  1. 00:27:112 (1,2,3,1) - Stacks where the notes are not evenly spaced in time are very confusing.
  2. 01:55:934 (3,4) - This antijump is pretty harsh since it's the first time that rhythm comes up.
  3. 02:31:934 (3,4,5) - ^
  4. 03:01:077 (5) - move the redpoint up ~half a grid
  5. 03:16:934 (4) - This slider's pretty hidden behind the last slider
the trollspacing on this diff works surprisingly well :/

Normal
  1. 00:51:220 (2,1,2,1) - This just looks ugly. Do something like this (Flipped for the other slider ofc)?
  2. 02:02:577 (2,3,4) - Aaaah uneven stack under a sliderend. Move it out of the way.
Anto's Easy
  1. Shorter easy diffs are not any easier, they're just lazy. I remember when I was a new player I hated shortened easy diffs: I felt like I had been cheated out of playing half of a good map for one of my favourite songs.
Pretty good map
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro

RandomJibberish wrote:

General
[*]Five minutes is too long to be rankable; If you are going for approval you'll need a BAT to bubble, in case you didn't know. I've talked with some BATs and they said it's ok.
[*]The backdrop is very light and the combo colours blend into it badly, especially during kiai. The two lighter colours are also very similar, so you should Darken and diffrentiate the combo colours.[/list] Changed.

Anto's Easy
  1. Shorter easy diffs are not any easier, they're just lazy. I remember when I was a new player I hated shortened easy diffs: I felt like I had been cheated out of playing half of a good map for one of my favourite songs.
I know that, but make a 5 min 1/4 bullshit is worse than maping half. I hate Easys; short ones, long ones, they are just waste of maping and they barely follow half the rythm of the song.
Sallad4ever
I'm perfectly fine with Hard diff, it's easy to read cause the notes are following the music very closely
anyway sorry I'm late, have no big complain so have my star, Good Luck~
Star
_llkey_18
;)
Akosss
Star :D
jericho2442
Easy
if your gonna half map it at least end it in a good place like 02:46:505 rather than the totally horrid place it ends in right now

maps ok though

Normal
found the map very bland sorry to say :< but it was solid

Hard
if i pretend osu is a different game and spacing dont matter at all this is a good map......but it does matter and some of this really does not suit

01:42:648 (6,7,8) - plays bad but its ok i guess, would still be better without this horrid anti jump
01:59:577 (3) - really really bad, if you use a pattern like this it does play better
02:08:791 (1,2,3,4,5) - if you stacked the anti jumps in this it would play better, as it is it plays bad again
02:20:791 (1,2) - space these, again bad anti jump
02:31:934 (3,4,5) - the (3,4) spacing is identical to the others even though its a different timing again plays really bad
02:34:505 (1,2) - again bad anti jump
02:54:005 (4,5,6) - same
02:55:077 (1,2,3,4) - same
03:49:291 (3) - place this either above or below the (2,4) atm the overlapped tiny spacing is really bad to play
03:50:791 (3,4,1) - bad anti jumping again
04:04:291 (3,4,5) - again
04:38:791 (3,1) - again


------------------------
im very sorry but unless every single one of them red points in Hard is fixed i cant even star this, a map should be readable and not only barely playable because of the song :/
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro

jericho2442 wrote:

im very sorry but unless every single one of them red points in Hard is fixed i cant even star this, a map should be readable and not only barely playable because of the song :/
Sure, say that to all those jumps i can't play, but still, they are ranked without problem. All that anti-jumps are rankable, they are easy to read due low AR AND due low OD, making it EVEN MORE EASIER.

Players need to play thousands of times the same freaking jump to hit it then "become the man", if they can't play a simple predictible anti-jump...

Eventhough, if players have an uncontrolable NEED for maps filled with jumps and streams, it's their freaking problem.

That's why i'm not changing them.

EDIT: I've also talked with loots of players, and they say it's not a big problem.

Also, i would need to make others patters that would surely not fit, further more change more things to make that patterns fit, and then kill myself.

EDIT 2: I haven't saw any place stated that anti-jumps are not permited. They have the same purpose of jumps.

Also, Does what I'm doing make sense? Is it more fun to play like this compared to if i had to stick to the guidelines? Yes for both.
Shohei Ohtani
I can't download Hard for some reason. I only get Normal and Easy ;~;.

Re-PM me and I'll give you first priority mod :D.
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro
Hmm, i've reuploaded and here worked fine.
Shohei Ohtani
Overall:
HITSOUND. When there are claps in the music, you should add claps in the map. Here, I'm only listing hitsounds that are not correlating to the music, but you should probably go through the entire map and hitsound :D~
Length seems a bit long for a for-ranking map? The map isn't too difficult, but I've seen maps that don't even have an insane get put into Approved due to length.
I don't like where the preview point is either. Place it on the chrous or somewhere with words :D~.

Hard:
01:09:648 (3) - Add clap
01:11:362 (3) - ^
01:13:077 (3) - ^
01:14:791 (3) - ^
These don't neccesarily follow the map's sounds, but it sounds cool when you put it in >:3~
01:58:505 (1,2,3,4,1) - I don't care about the spacing, but this pattern looks really cramped.
02:06:005 (2,3,4) - hi.
02:26:362 (2,3) - ^
03:15:648 - This isn't much of a good spot to add kiai. This might be a cool spot to add a break, because the music suddenly drops in intensity.
03:29:362 - Still not time for kiai, but if you want to add a break at 3:15, this would be a nice spot to re-enter the music.
03:29:362 (1) - Add finish

Normal:
01:09:648 (3) - Add clap
01:11:362 (3) - ^
01:13:077 (3) - ^
01:14:791 (3) - ^
04:17:791 (2) - Slightly touching HP Bar

Easy:
01:09:434 (2) - Slightly touching HP Bar
02:14:791 (2) - Laaaaazy~

That's it :3~. whee
NoHitter
Anto's Easy
IMO make Slidertick rate = 2

Normal
IMO make Slidertick rate = 2
00:35:362 (2) - Extend by 1/4.
01:28:934 (1) - IMO don't stack this on the previous slider. It's kind of confusing given the previous slider that was stacked.

Hard
IMO make Slidertick rate = 2
01:42:648 (6,7,8,1) - Very surprising.
02:08:791 (1,2,3,4,5) - IMO just stack (1,2) and (4,5).
02:21:220 (2) - Space this further. This is even more confusing than the previous anti-jump.
02:43:505 (2,3) - If you turn Snaking Sliders in the options off, you can't tell if (2) is the slider or if (3) is. Please fix.
Lots of anti-jumps on Hard that don't feel right.

Edit: jericho posted a list of anti-jumps already before. IMO you should fix them.
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro
Changed what i thought it was necessary.
James2250
-In my opinion this seems too long to be ranked, but some BATs might allow it
-Combo colors work well with the background~

Anto's Easy:
Odd to have a kiai fountain with nothing to hit on it
01:09:434 (2) - move down so it doesn't go through hp bar?
01:58:077 (2) - add a whistle to the end of this to follow your pattern?

Normal:
Some nice symmetrical patterns used here but it is really lacking in hitsounds at the moment which could make the map much more enjoyable to play
For such a long map I would of expected more than just 1 break near the beginning
00:47:362 (4,1) - odd anti jump
01:27:434 (3,4) - try and avoid hidden repeats (especially on the easier difficulties)
01:36:434 (1,2) - move down?
01:49:934 (1) - add finish
01:53:362 (1,2,3) - try and avoid hidden repeats
02:03:648 (1) - add finish
02:17:362 (4) - ^ same for any other ones in similar places of the song

Hard:
For such a long map I would of expected more than just 1 break near the beginning
Same basic hitsound comments as Normal
I agree that the anti jumps don't fit at all with this particular song, don't need to say anything else about them as they have been mentioned several times

Main concern I have is the spacing on Hard which I suggest you reconsider, some hitsound improvements would be a nice touch too
Maps are still nice enough to get a star from me~
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro
Going to graveyard, yay.
ouranhshc

AdRon Zh3Ro wrote:

Going to graveyard, yay.
D: its one of my favorite maps too
Topic Starter
AdRon Zh3Ro
Well...

15:43 <Larto> : Iiiiiii could
15:43 <Larto> : take a look
15:43 <AdRon_Zh3Ro> : Ok, thanks.
15:47 <Larto> : Hard: 01:28:077 (5,6) - This one is uuugh
15:47 <Larto> : Ugly!
15:48 <Larto> : 01:59:148 (2,3) - This one too
15:48 <Larto> : And by ugly I mean I doubt that they play well
15:49 <AdRon_Zh3Ro> : Hmm, well so far all, that played those, were able to do them fairly.
15:49 <AdRon_Zh3Ro> : the ones*
15:49 <Larto> : Well, i just am worried that they don't really fit
15:50 <AdRon_Zh3Ro> : The (3), at x:256 y:232?
15:51 <Larto> : Could be better.
15:51 <Larto> : Probably is.
15:52 <AdRon_Zh3Ro> : Someone alredy pointed to put at that place... Well, so there it is.
15:53 <Larto> : is aber wohl noch spielbar
15:53 <Larto> : Woops.
15:53 <AdRon_Zh3Ro> : yeh...
15:53 <Larto> : Did I just send you german messages?
15:53 <AdRon_Zh3Ro> : You did.
15:53 <Larto> : lol.
15:53 <Larto> : My mind slipped.
15:54 <Larto> : I'm talking to german and english people at once here so meh
15:54 <Larto> : Okay uuuh
15:54 <AdRon_Zh3Ro> : It happens...
15:54 <Larto> : basically that thing I pointed out is a bit ugly
15:54 <Larto> : Still playable, but meh
15:54 <Larto> : Not exactly great
15:54 <AdRon_Zh3Ro> : Well, playable still.
15:54 <Larto> : Yeah, just not perfect! =D
15:54 <Larto> : But yeah overall the antijumps in this map don't seem awfully terrible to me
15:55 <Larto> : Some are a bit unfitting, but they're mostly playable well and fine
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