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[Proposal] Custom diffnames of top-level difficulties

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Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,107 posts
Joined December 2014
Topic Starter
Nao Tomori
Hello!

As we know, many spreads nowadays feature several fairly identical extra-level difficulties which are all named various things including Extra, Extreme, Expert, Ultra, Ex, EX EX, etc. None of these names actually convey any sense of different difficulty. Aside from that, SR above like 3.5 is completely meaningless as a method of judging a map's actual difficulty anyway, so arbitrarily disallowing custom names for extraneous extra- or insane-level difficulties based on it doesn't really serve a purpose. I suggest that the RC be changed such that difficulties at the highest level of the spread (being extra level for an nhixxx, insane for nhiii etc.) be allowed to use custom naming. This would bring uniqueness to the difficulties since having them all randomly named some variation of "extra" is both unhelpful and frankly boring.

Sets like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/393663 would be able to use a spread with the custom names as intended instead of terrible workarounds. Stuff like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/747818 as well could have unique names since each difficulty has fairly different interpretations and uniqueness and is not specifically for the point of spread.

Overall I think freeing up difficulty naming would be a nice way to allow mappers more uniqueness in their sets instead of just naming everything the same way. It's really boring, sorry Raiden.
Alheak
910 posts
Joined November 2013
Alheak
Agree for obvious reasons but I think a certain logic should still be respected, like a theme or pattern in naming. This would allow for more flexibility while preventing uninspired and/or chaotic diffnames.
Lasse
osu! Alumni
3,644 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
makes sense, I don't really see what issues it could cause if it would be implemented like that
Izzywing
osu! Alumni
2,251 posts
Joined March 2016
Izzywing
yea the reason its not like that now is because we want a clear progression between diffs but...."jims extra" "bobs extra" "jeffs extra" "tims extra" is showing no progression at all, would be the same if it was "jims eternity" "bobs lifetime" "jeffs longlasting" "tims longtime"
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
hey, you asked to get this pushed forward so i asked for opinions from people who help with rc changes

consensus is that you need to word a rule that accounts for alheak's concern (on this thread) and that accounts for difficulties with progression within the same name (so light insane vs normal insane). for example, if you have a 130bpm 1/4 spam song and the top 3 diffs are alt-ing insanes without difficulty progression, it's ok to use custom diffnames. if the set has a 4th insane that's noticeably lower in difficulty, like one designed as a normal 130bpm map without alternating, it shouldn't be associated with the alt ones through custom diffnames. should be using standard naming

when you figure out wording, post it here
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,107 posts
Joined December 2014
Topic Starter
Nao Tomori
it's hard to word it; the intent is that diffs "above the spread" that are different interpretations of the song and all could serve as the top diff.

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Top difficulties of sets, defined as difficulties that could serve as the highest level of a mapset (at the nominating BN's discretion) can use free naming. The difficulties should be similar in difficulty and differ only in interpretation of the song. The names must be related in some way through either the song or a theme that encompasses all the custom names.
intent here is to basically let bns decide if diffs are high enough in the spread that the spread could end there. basically for sets with like 8 star diffs, most of the diffs above 7 sr could probably qualify while the diffs that make up the nhix spread up to there would not since they are needed for spread to the last diffs.

this should address both points.
Alheak
910 posts
Joined November 2013
Alheak
Excluding a mapset’s hardest difficulty, a difficulty’s name must accurately indicate its level of difficulty. Conventional difficulty names vary between game modes, but any set of clearly progressive difficulty names can be alternatively used. Additionally, a mapset’s hardest difficulty should not use a misrepresentative difficulty name.
to

Excluding a mapset’s hardest difficulty or difficulties with a star rating of over 5.25, a difficulty’s name must accurately indicate its level of difficulty. Conventional difficulty names vary between game modes and sources, but any set of clearly progressive difficulty names can be alternatively used. Additionally, a mapset’s hardest difficulty must not use a misrepresentative difficulty name, and in the case of multiple difficulties with custom naming, a common theme, pattern or logic in naming related to the song must be followed.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
alheak's wording looks ok. may be hard to follow for anyone unfamiliar, but it covers all points

i'll check with others to see if it's clear enough to be merged to the rc
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,959 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
SR shouldnt be on that rule

as it should be nowhere, really

as far as i followed this idea, as long as there are corresponding difficulties to tell people what around this thing is what, custom difficulty names can be used, so maybe it should be worded among the lines of "A beatmap set's difficulties must clearly indicate their level of difficulty and may use custom difficulty names in case there are multiple difficulties around the same level."

don't know if i got that right but yea
Alheak
910 posts
Joined November 2013
Alheak
Excluding a mapset’s hardest difficulty and additional difficulties of the same level as a base one (e.g. a second Hard difficulty in a ENHHI spread), a difficulty’s name must accurately indicate its level of difficulty. Conventional difficulty names vary between game modes and sources, but any set of clearly progressive difficulty names can be alternatively used. Additionally, a mapset’s difficulty must not use a misrepresentative name, and in the case of multiple difficulties with custom naming, a common theme, pattern or logic in naming related to the song must be followed.
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,107 posts
Joined December 2014
Topic Starter
Nao Tomori
Excluding a mapset’s hardest difficulty, a difficulty’s name must accurately indicate its level of difficulty. Conventional difficulty names vary between game modes and sources, but any set of clearly progressive difficulty names can be alternatively used. Additionally, difficulty names must not be misrepresentative of actual difficulty. The highest level difficulties, defined as similar in difficulty and outside of spread (the insane diffs of an ENHIIII spread, extra diffs of ENHIXXXXX, etc), may use a custom name scheme with a common theme, pattern or logic in naming related to the song.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
content wise those are good, but they're just a pain to read because they're big paragraphs of highly specific info lol


A set of difficulty names must use clearly progressive names that accurately indicate their respective difficulties, excluding...
  1. the highest difficulty of a set.
  2. the highest difficulties of a set that are similar levels of difficulty, applying only to upper-level Insanes and Experts (e.g. the Insane difficulties of a ENHIIII set or the Expert difficulties of a ENHIXXXX set). If using custom names, they must have a common theme or pattern related to the song.


that might be better since separation is more obvious
Alheak
910 posts
Joined November 2013
Alheak
Difficulty names in a set must be clearly progressive and accurately indicating of their respective difficulties, excluding:
  1. The highest difficulty.
  2. The highest difficulties with a similar level of difficulty, applying only to Insane and Extra difficulties (e.g. the Insane difficulties of a ENHIIII set or the Extra difficulties of a ENHIIXXX set).

Custom naming must follow a common theme or pattern related to the song and must not be misrepresentative.
Last edited by Alheak , edited 1 time in total.
Enon
Beatmap Nominator
2,700 posts
Joined November 2012
Enon
I would like to suggest to consider it like we can use any names for every difficulty. I think "0108 Style", "Lauriextra", etc... could be accepted as a difficulty's name, since we are now able to aware difficulty of map to see the star-difficulty...
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
finalized

enon, i don't think free naming for everything is gonna fly
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