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Yooh - Road To The LegenD,

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Topic Starter
lazygirl

AncuL wrote:

looking at the editor, it feels like that the map has a lot to polish. i'm a beginner mapper though so i can't point out exact things. it's just that it feels... unpolished

though i have something that i want to discuss


this is a fast slider, but you gave it some sharp angles even though the slider is basically a linear movement. to be honest, it looks bad

that being said, there are a lot of things i can't point out do to my lack of experience in modding
I mean my visual design choices are also not common. Basically, calm parts are all clean, and the more intense it gets, the dirtier it gets. For example, i intentionally left overlaps that I could’ve stacked in the kiai (if you looks there’s tons of those). The slider design is also following that idea, as in the first point of my sliders is flow, the second point is relating to intensity. Starting off, in the first kiai you only have straight/round sliders (e.g. 0 distortion), except for the 1/3, which serves the double function of helping readability as well as conveying that idea of intensity = distortion. In the kiai I distort the sliders totally, their only function they have left is to allow flow. They’re also way different shapes to each other, helping imo with the representation of the wildness of the song (at least that’s how I feel it) hence same sounds have different sliders.

Of course this is all highly subjective and you may disagree, to which I cannot say you’re wrong, but yeah. Those were the intentions behind the look of the map^^
Monarch
Hi it's me again :)

Just a few things I felt weren't quite as covered as I think they should have been, and just looking for a slightly more in depth follow up to your comments really

01:02:442 (3,4,5,6) - So in this pattern you told me to refer to prolog, which clearly states that a lot of the map has a focus on flow as a mechanic for emphasis as opposed to spacing, ie you will make hard notes harder not by increasing spacing but by using the subsequent movement to make the strain on the previous note harder. If I have understood incorrectly please do correct me.



Pardon my crude illustration of player movement throughout this section, but from my rough understanding of gameplay I can hypothesise that this is the general movement a player will be engaging with while playing this section of notes. An assumption has quite clearly been made here that the player is sufficiently skilled to adequately engage in the difficult parts of this map, namely the cross screen jumps, with ease and as such it is expected that snapping will be at a minimal in regards to spacing as small as this.

As such, bearing your prolog in mind, we can see that the jump from the slider end to four would be considered by your standards, rather easy in fact. Then we can see, judging by the obtuse angle that the jump from four to five would be rather strenuous, relatively, due to the nature of how movement is handled around obtuse angles. And then once again, in the jump from five to six, we see another obtuse angle, with the distance spacing from four to five being replicated in the jump from five to six.

There is no problem with this at all, I am more than welcome to accept the explanation for this choice of jump style between notes and how you have chosen to emphasise the notes, however, the emphasis does not match the music in my humble and honest oppinion.

As your prolog explains, the jump from four to five is emphasised by the obtuse angle, forcing an acceleration in a similar direction to the flow of the map in this section and then in the jump from five to six, note number five is emphasised by the obtuse angle from five to six and the subsequent directional acceleration. The problem therein lies that it is impossible, by your standards and with this pattern, to emphasise note number six due to the nature of the jumps as in their current form.

The symbol crash on slider six suggests that this note deserves extended spacing similar to what you provide here 01:03:320 (7,1) - however, any attempt to increase spacing in six will disrupt the balance between four five and six altogether very clearly since any space increase in six means that the acceleration in five to six will be higher and thus the strain on five will be undeservingly high.

This is my reasoning behind why this small section should be changed and I hope you can see how I came to this conclusion through my understanding of your prolog.

~~

My next point, although not present in my first post in this map, is nonetheless something that I believe deserves some urgent attention specifically with the part highlighted here 03:29:954 (3,4,5,6) - specifically the concept that this is in its own right one of the most intense parts of the map and, in reference to your prolog, not only have you made this as easy as possible by not only making the angles acute and reducing the spacing drastically but some consitency concerns also arise with the first half of the kiai, specifically with the spacing of this particular note 03:25:564 (5) -. We can hear clearly that this note five is building up to an intense notes in the form of the slider that follows it, my qualm is not with this note but how it relates to this note three 03:29:954 (3) - which very audiably has a much higher pitch is mapped giving the impression that it is infact less intense than the larger of the two.

This problem was highlighted with the idea in mind that both of these jumps follow the acute style of jumping so a more/equally intense jump should not be completely overshadowed by any of its counterparts. This goes for the rest of the jumps in the small section i highlighted too, 03:29:954 (3,4,5,6) - this is the middle of the kiai and yet the intensity of the jumps do not seem to be matching up with the intensity of the map at this point in time.

This overshadowing can also be seen slightly later in the map at 03:39:320 (1,2,3,4) - and 03:41:662 (1,2,3,4) - where the original notes i highlighted are of a higher pitch and intensity and yet lower spacing too however this may be due to the lack of strain caused by the long pauses in this later section but I would still like to hear your response nonetheless.

~~

  1. If a map gets modded by a total of 3 BN's plus other reputable mappers such as Kite and Alheak, you should probably question yourself as to why you're the one who finds the most issues in the map.
This is flawed logic which has lead scientists with the mental capacity far beyond you and me to come to conclusions incorrectly, biased on selective peer review. If people in the top 0.0001% of the population, when dealing with factual evidence, are not immune to such an occurrence then neither is any one else.
~~

That is all for now :)
Topic Starter
lazygirl

Monarch wrote:

Hi it's me again :) a smile much better :3

Just a few things I felt weren't quite as covered as I think they should have been, and just looking for a slightly more in depth follow up to your comments really sure thing

01:02:442 (3,4,5,6) - So in this pattern you told me to refer to prolog, which clearly states that a lot of the map has a focus on flow as a mechanic for emphasis as opposed to spacing, ie you will make hard notes harder not by increasing spacing but by using the subsequent movement to make the strain on the previous note harder. If I have understood incorrectly please do correct me.



Pardon my crude illustration of player movement throughout this section, but from my rough understanding of gameplay I can hypothesise that this is the general movement a player will be engaging with while playing this section of notes. An assumption has quite clearly been made here that the player is sufficiently skilled to adequately engage in the difficult parts of this map, namely the cross screen jumps, with ease and as such it is expected that snapping will be at a minimal in regards to spacing as small as this. Yup sound correct

As such, bearing your prolog in mind, we can see that the jump from the slider end to four would be considered by your standards, rather easy in fact. Then we can see, judging by the obtuse angle that the jump from four to five would be rather strenuous, relatively, due to the nature of how movement is handled around obtuse angles. And then once again, in the jump from five to six, we see another obtuse angle, with the distance spacing from four to five being replicated in the jump from five to six.

There is no problem with this at all, I am more than welcome to accept the explanation for this choice of jump style between notes and how you have chosen to emphasise the notes, however, the emphasis does not match the music in my humble and honest oppinion.

As your prolog explains, the jump from four to five is emphasised by the obtuse angle, forcing an acceleration in a similar direction to the flow of the map in this section and then in the jump from five to six, note number five is emphasised by the obtuse angle from five to six and the subsequent directional acceleration. The problem therein lies that it is impossible, by your standards and with this pattern, to emphasise note number six due to the nature of the jumps as in their current form.

The symbol crash on slider six suggests that this note deserves extended spacing similar to what you provide here 01:03:320 (7,1) - however, any attempt to increase spacing in six will disrupt the balance between four five and six altogether very clearly since any space increase in six means that the acceleration in five to six will be higher and thus the strain on five will be undeservingly high.

This is my reasoning behind why this small section should be changed and I hope you can see how I came to this conclusion through my understanding of your prolog. Valid concerns, I will actually move 5 a bit closer to 4, and 6 a little further away.

~~

My next point, although not present in my first post in this map, is nonetheless something that I believe deserves some urgent attention specifically with the part highlighted here 03:29:954 (3,4,5,6) - specifically the concept that this is in its own right one of the most intense parts of the map and, in reference to your prolog, not only have you made this as easy as possible by not only making the angles acute and reducing the spacing drastically but some consitency concerns also arise with the first half of the kiai, specifically with the spacing of this particular note 03:25:564 (5) -. We can hear clearly that this note five is building up to an intense notes in the form of the slider that follows it, my qualm is not with this note but how it relates to this note three 03:29:954 (3) - which very audiably has a much higher pitch is mapped giving the impression that it is infact less intense than the larger of the two.

This problem was highlighted with the idea in mind that both of these jumps follow the acute style of jumping so a more/equally intense jump should not be completely overshadowed by any of its counterparts. This goes for the rest of the jumps in the small section i highlighted too, 03:29:954 (3,4,5,6) - this is the middle of the kiai and yet the intensity of the jumps do not seem to be matching up with the intensity of the map at this point in time. Yep I agree, increased the spacing somewhat here.

This overshadowing can also be seen slightly later in the map at 03:39:320 (1,2,3,4) - and 03:41:662 (1,2,3,4) - where the original notes i highlighted are of a higher pitch and intensity and yet lower spacing too however this may be due to the lack of strain caused by the long pauses in this later section but I would still like to hear your response nonetheless. In this section the idea was more on the contrast between the low rhythm density and the higher one. I am not 100% sure the spacing is totally adapted, it feels like it is imo. If mentionned again I'll definitely look over it again.

~~

  1. If a map gets modded by a total of 3 BN's plus other reputable mappers such as Kite and Alheak, you should probably question yourself as to why you're the one who finds the most issues in the map.
This is flawed logic which has lead scientists with the mental capacity far beyond you and me to come to conclusions incorrectly, biased on selective peer review. If people in the top 0.0001% of the population, when dealing with factual evidence, are not immune to such an occurrence then neither is any one else. You missunderstood what I mean here :P I do not mean that you shouldn't voice your opinion. I am always open to suggestions (though I can be stubborn I well know that). I just meant that if you're going against the ideas of people prominent in such a field, you should question yourself before running in headfirst and stating objectivity and wrong or right. Your mod gave me the impression you knew all and everything and were trying to teach me how to make a basic map :P Now you have seemingly taken a good step back and are actually being polite and thoughtful, which I definitely appreciate a lot, so thanks ^^
~~

That is all for now :)
Thank you :)
AncuL

Monarch wrote:

  1. If a map gets modded by a total of 3 BN's plus other reputable mappers such as Kite and Alheak, you should probably question yourself as to why you're the one who finds the most issues in the map.
i agree with this. it feels like that nobody really touched the fundamental issue the map is bad on. i think i'll try to find reasons to it later on. i just feel like that this isn't on the rankable quality
Topic Starter
lazygirl

AncuL wrote:

Monarch wrote:

  1. If a map gets modded by a total of 3 BN's plus other reputable mappers such as Kite and Alheak, you should probably question yourself as to why you're the one who finds the most issues in the map.
i agree with this. it feels like that nobody really touched the fundamental issue the map is bad on. i think i'll try to find reasons to it later on. i just feel like that this isn't on the rankable quality
If you think that’s the case then mod the map. I have absolutely nothing against improvement on my execution of the ideas I had in mind. You do have to consider however that I’m going for quite unorthodox methods, hence the map being different on a lot of levels to what a standard osu map contains. Ok it’s definitely not a hollow wings map, but I believe my gimmicks are sufficiently uncommon to spark such reactions even when execution is fine (though I am the worst judge of my own maps so I shouldn’t talk lel). So yeah, just tell me which parts or globally what facts are not of rankable quality, I will do my best to either explain my choices or fix the issues.
Nao Tomori
01:05:369 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6) -
00:46:637 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,1) -

03:48:760 (6,10) - these dont rly hav prominent sound, replacing note before by kickslider or hitsounding sound in works well

also consider like flipping 04:00:978 - that pattern so it isnt a literal copy paste but instead its a copy paste flip!
Topic Starter
lazygirl

Naotoshi wrote:

01:05:369 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6) - oh right, fixed NC
00:46:637 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,1) -

03:48:760 (6,10) - these dont rly hav prominent sound, replacing note before by kickslider or hitsounding sound in works well Ok messed around with it some more and went with kicksliders

also consider like flipping 04:00:978 - that pattern so it isnt a literal copy paste but instead its a copy paste flip! Magic!
We lost sr again :'(
Nao Tomori
rebub

ancul decided not to say anything
Pachiru
Where is the super beginner? I can't play over 0.90* so I don't know why this map should be ranked. Please think about new players before always thinking about your PP. I'm losing faith in humanity while being in this community, I always feel like weaks are left behind. I'm very disgusted wow. Welcome to 2018, not the year of the dog, but the year of the firetrucking PP and bulldog maps.
Topic Starter
lazygirl

Pachiru wrote:

Where is the super beginner? I can't play over 0.90* so I don't know why this map should be ranked. Please think about new players before always thinking about your PP. I'm losing faith in humanity while being in this community, I always feel like weaks are left behind. I'm very disgusted wow. Welcome to 2018, not the year of the dog, but the year of the firetrucking PP and bulldog maps.
Why did you even have faith in humanity to begin with sheesh

Naotoshi wrote:

rebub

ancul decided not to say anything
Cool stuff 8-)
jeanbernard8865
alright, let's try again
Topic Starter
lazygirl

AyanokoRin wrote:

alright, let's try again

Round 2 FIGHT
jeanbernard8865
For a moment i thought i had received a notification for my own post
Cheri
um why is this still in pending and not in the qualified section (no scoreboard either)? think u forgot a step XD
Topic Starter
lazygirl

Hailie wrote:

um why is this still in pending and not in the qualified section (no scoreboard either)? think u forgot a step XD


Yeah I was wondering :( it shows up in qualified on #mapfeed in discord yet it’s broken here haha
jeanbernard8865

Hailie wrote:

um why is this still in pending and not in the qualified section (no scoreboard either)? think u forgot a step XD
I am retarded and have no idea how to use manage button
jeanbernard8865
Double post to announce that mail verification finally allowed me to qualify, not being dumb is hard
Mimiliaa
gratzzzzzzz ~
Topic Starter
lazygirl

AyanokoRin wrote:

Double post to announce that mail verification finally allowed me to qualify, not being dumb is hard
I agree, being dumb is way too easy :/ Thanks for the time spent on the set \:D/
Mayno
Re-engaging the hype train.

Plz no derail.
monebreaker
this map is not good.
bad jump.
bad stack.
unreadable.
Topic Starter
lazygirl

monebreaker wrote:

this map is not good.
bad jump.
bad stack.
unreadable.
Aight dq mod it then, this doesn’t help :p
Mimiliaa
hihi funny
Mayno

monebreaker wrote:

this map is not good.
bad jump.
bad stack.
unreadable.
Damnit and I was looking forward to this map getting ranked as well...
Mimiliaa
Osu game is dying. To explain why, i'll refer to a recent map that got ranked, Yooh - Road To The LegenD, By "Lazyboy007". First of all, this map doesn't flow well, the flow during the whole song is horrible. Moreover, the song is bad mapped, as monebreaker said becfore, "this map is not good. bad jump. bad stack. unreadable." Yes. The map isn't good, its a bad map that doesn't even give PP, what a shame on march 2018, where every maps give PP. The meta is made of goldenwolf's edit with 121212 jumps, and this lazyboy007 come with this song and rank this map. No, that can't be real, this needs to get unranked bcz its too hard and doesn't even give PP !!!!!!!!
FaiVillager

Kutsa wrote:

Osu game is dying. To explain why, i'll refer to a recent map that got ranked, Yooh - Road To The LegenD, By "Lazyboy007". First of all, this map doesn't flow well, the flow during the whole song is horrible. Moreover, the song is bad mapped, as monebreaker said becfore, "this map is not good. bad jump. bad stack. unreadable." Yes. The map isn't good, its a bad map that doesn't even give PP, what a shame on march 2018, where every maps give PP. The meta is made of goldenwolf's edit with 121212 jumps, and this lazyboy007 come with this song and rank this map. No, that can't be real, this needs to get unranked bcz its too hard and doesn't even give PP !!!!!!!!
Whatever comes from "This doesn't give PP" should be reconsidered. Even thought I did not tried this map, you can't judge a map with pp or use this as an excuse.
Mayno

FaiVillager wrote:

Kutsa wrote:

Osu game is dying. To explain why, i'll refer to a recent map that got ranked, Yooh - Road To The LegenD, By "Lazyboy007". First of all, this map doesn't flow well, the flow during the whole song is horrible. Moreover, the song is bad mapped, as monebreaker said becfore, "this map is not good. bad jump. bad stack. unreadable." Yes. The map isn't good, its a bad map that doesn't even give PP, what a shame on march 2018, where every maps give PP. The meta is made of goldenwolf's edit with 121212 jumps, and this lazyboy007 come with this song and rank this map. No, that can't be real, this needs to get unranked bcz its too hard and doesn't even give PP !!!!!!!!
Whatever comes from "This doesn't give PP" should be reconsidered. Even thought I did not tried this map, you can't judge a map with pp or use this as an excuse.
u got baited m8
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