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"Advanced" Editor mode [Denied]

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16
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +0
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Card N'FoRcE
It's quite long, but i'll try to keep it simple.

Sometimes, when i'm working with the editor, i find myself having to mess up with the .osu file manually because some of the features are not available or keep being forced by the editor itself and there's no way for me to have complete control over my work.
(Before answering "because what you want to do is unrankable" at least let me finish, i think it may be interesting anyway)

So i just had the idea of having two editor "modes" to choose from when mapping:

- Normal:
  • The normal editor we already use now.
- Advanced:
  • Nothing really different from the Normal editor, but every "hidden" or "limited" feature is available.
    What i thought it might be good:
  1. Circle Size 0,1,2,8,9 and 10 available (achievable by manually editing .osu file already, but canceled if opening Song Setup and pressing Ok to apply new changes)
  2. SliderBorder, SliderTrackOverride and SpinnerApproachCircle colour option under Colours tab (achievable by manually editing the .osu file). There probably are other elements from skin.ini working too.
  3. Stack Leniency 0 and 0.1 available (achievable by manually editing .osu file already, but canceled if you open Song Setup and press Ok to apply any changes)
  4. Catmull and Linear sliders available (achievable by manually editing the .osu file)
  5. Custom inherited sections below 0.5 and above 2.0 (achievable by manually editing .osu file already, but canceled if opening Timing Setup Panel, choose that section (it resets to either 0.5 or 2.0) and press Ok to apply new changes.)
  6. Beat snap divisor 1/12 and 1/16 (Not available, maybe not that useful, but still)
  7. Breaks Autoupdate working only on manually added breaks (If someone does not map the song linearly having the breaks all over the editor is really unpleasant)
  8. Custom Grid Size (achievable by editing .osu file manually)
Maybe others to come if someone has good suggestions.

I'm well aware that some of these things are unrankable, that's why the "Advanced" mode (maybe make a warning show up when enabling it?)

There are some mappers who still have fun just messing up with the editor not necessarily for ranking purposes, also it will end many complaints or disappointments about editor options.

Opinions?
Lunah_old
Lunah_old
a wish
Danneh
157 posts
Joined April 2010
Danneh
I SO support this ... This is a great idea
jameskong1
403 posts
Joined December 2008
jameskong1
support!!! :)
EvianBubble
339 posts
Joined October 2009
EvianBubble
I would like to see this

+1 support
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
might trip some newer mappers up at the start. but i'm not gonna complain about having extra mappers options brought to the light
support~
James2250
osu! Alumni
4,059 posts
Joined July 2008
James2250

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

- Normal:
  • The normal editor we already use now.
- Advanced:
Nothing really different from the Normal editor, but every "hidden" or "limited" feature is available.
What i thought it might be good:
[*]Circle Size 0,1,2,8,9 and 10 available (achievable by manually editing .osu file already, but canceled if opening Song Setup and pressing Ok to apply new changes) It is funny to play with, but I don't see it needed as an actual option
[*]SliderBorder, SliderTrackOverride and SpinnerApproachCircle colour option under Colours tab (achievable by manually editing the .osu file). There probably are other elements from skin.ini working too. Could just be added to the regular editor as an option? Doesn't really need an "advanced mode"
[*]Stack Leniency 0 and 0.1 available (achievable by manually editing .osu file already, but canceled if you open Song Setup and press Ok to apply any changes) No..don't ever think its a good idea to use
[*]Catmull and Linear sliders available (achievable by manually editing the .osu file) Just got removed by peppy as he didn't like anyone using them, I don't see them added back any time soon
[*]Custom inherited sections below 0.5 and above 2.0 (achievable by manually editing .osu file already, but canceled if opening Timing Setup Panel, choose that section (it resets to either 0.5 or 2.0) and press Ok to apply new changes.) Don't get point of having options that are unrankable to be honest. Just to mess around? Meh~
[*]Beat snap divisor 1/12 and 1/16 (Not available, maybe not that useful, but still) I suppose could be useful in certain cases~
[*]Breaks Autoupdate working only on manually added breaks (If someone does not map the song linearly having the breaks all over the editor is really unpleasant) I agree, still could be added on regular editor.
[*]Custom Grid Size (achievable by editing .osu file manually)Same as above

Maybe others to come if someone has good suggestions.
Opinions?

I personally do not agree with any of the unrankable stuff being listed anywhere an an option. Beginners will see the options and mis-use them (most of them do not realize they can edit the .osu). As for any more professional mappers 99% of them will be aiming to get their maps ranked when they create one and will be using the excuse "if its not rankable why is it an option for us to use". Maps just for fun can just use .osu if you want to make random changes? :P
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
Isn't the osu. file advanced enough for our editing uses ;) It would seem rather odd to implement another editor mode. I would like the Catmull/Linear/Beizer option back though that would be sweet.
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Card N'FoRcE

James2250 wrote:

Maps just for fun can just use .osu if you want to make random changes? :P
The problem is that
some of the features are not available or keep being forced by the editor itself
Then at least have the editor not "force" rankable things without saying anything.

EDIT:
Beginners will see the options and mis-use them
might trip some newer mappers up at the start
That's why "Advanced". If new people don't even know what they're doing and ignore the an eventual warning that clearly says "For experienced mappers", well... They have been warned! D:
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
I'd be nice to do skin.ini stuff like SliderBorder easier, but it's used so rarely that manually editing the .osu is simple enough. Also, MM just exchanged grid size 0 with grid size 4 in the editor. Do you really need anything smaller?

I disagree with just about all of these things. peppy removed different options for a reason, so asking him to re-implement stuff, especially unrankable things, just isn't going to happen. If you really want to use "advanced" things like what you mentioned, then editing the .osu should be good/easy enough.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

Circle Size 0,1,2,8,9 and 10 available (achievable by manually editing .osu file already, but canceled if opening Song Setup and pressing Ok to apply new changes)
These were only removed because peppy considered them unrankable.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

SliderBorder, SliderTrackOverride and SpinnerApproachCircle colour option under Colours tab (achievable by manually editing the .osu file). There probably are other elements from skin.ini working too.
Will consider this when I revisit the Options dialog.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

Stack Leniency 0 and 0.1 available (achievable by manually editing .osu file already, but canceled if you open Song Setup and press Ok to apply any changes)
Also only removed because they were considered unrankable.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

Catmull and Linear sliders available (achievable by manually editing the .osu file)
Catmulls were ugly. Linears can still be created with redpoints. I'll look into adding a shortcut to quickly create sliders entirely from redpoints.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

Custom inherited sections below 0.5 and above 2.0 (achievable by manually editing .osu file already, but canceled if opening Timing Setup Panel, choose that section (it resets to either 0.5 or 2.0) and press Ok to apply new changes.)
These are explicitly unrankable. No map is allowed a global speed change ratio greater than 4:1.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

Beat snap divisor 1/12 and 1/16 (Not available, maybe not that useful, but still)
Resnapping objects to 1/12 has merit, but I see no need to add them to Compose mode.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

Breaks Autoupdate working only on manually added breaks (If someone does not map the song linearly having the breaks all over the editor is really unpleasant)
I can safely say peppy is vehemently opposed to this, considering things used to work this way.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

Custom Grid Size (achievable by editing .osu file manually)
The only reason this doesn't already exist is because of a bug with non-POT grid sizes. Try it and see.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

I'm well aware that some of these things are unrankable, that's why the "Advanced" mode (maybe make a warning show up when enabling it?)
This just isn't the way peppy thinks. He would consider it wrong to even so much as offer unrankable things to the mapper, and (perhaps justly so) consider them not worth the abuse potential.

If you can find a legitimate use to the things I've said no to, please do tell.
peppy
19,312 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy

MetalMario201 wrote:

These were only removed because peppy considered them unrankable.
Most of the changes were removed due to other people's input, just to set things clear :).


MetalMario201 wrote:

I'll look into adding a shortcut to quickly create sliders entirely from redpoints.
Seriously don't bother. People can't possibly be complaining about a double-click vs single-click.

As mm said, I am opposed to this kind of thing. Either the options are offered or not at all. "Advanced" mode is editing the osu file directly. I don't plan on giving more accessibility to unrankable features. I would sooner lean in the other direction (not allowing these things to be done via manually editing) than add them to the editor, in fact (so don't push it ;))!
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Card N'FoRcE
Ok ok, there's no need to push it, but i had the idea and i thought it was worth a try.

Actually, the main purpose of this request would be about the editor removing the edited values if changing something else, which is a bother when editing manually :(
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
Everything you can't get at in the editor that gets changed when you do other stuff is unrankable :/
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Card N'FoRcE

RandomJibberish wrote:

Everything you can't get at in the editor that gets changed when you do other stuff is unrankable :/
You don't get the point.

(Before answering "because what you want to do is unrankable" at least let me finish, i think it may be interesting anyway)
There are some mappers who still have fun just messing up with the editor not necessarily for ranking purposes, also it will end many complaints or disappointments about editor options.
That's what i think.
I'm not asking to make these thinks rankable, i'm asking for a way to allow people to mess with their work freely and this doesn't involve the ranking process at all.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
NatsumeRin
make a rankable map takes me about 4 hours, start from choose a song to map i mean.

make an awesome map may take 4 months but it's more funnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn www ---- for the mapper or his/her friends or whoever like it

....^ if you still don't understand why some guys need such things...


however, most of the time editing .osu file is a easy enough thing to do imo:
Circle Size ---- sorry didn't think about them....
Slider Skin ---- if needed i can change
Stack Leniency ---- well it's a pain that i have to remind myself "not to click song setup" everytime
Slider Type ---- just saying about myself, not a fan of catmulls... but agree it could be useful so i have an older version of .osu....... and older version editor too.
hold/holy fast sliders ---- if not for rank a red line would solve everything.
1/12 & 1/16 ---- i'd like to see we have them....
Breaks ---- totally agree
Custome Grid Size ---- map without grid so not related to me, and current grid level 4 makes me x_x.......

besides above, i still have sth to care such as stacked stream thing... it's quite long so maybe i should start another thread.
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