1. Phantasm (5,66 stars, 2362 notes)

Minorsonek wrote:

hi, m4m

Diff

DJPop multiaccount confirmed?
00:04:557 (7,8,9) - move it 4 pixels to right to perfect vertical match with 00:03:996 (2,3,4) - done
00:13:060 (2,3,4) - why is it rotated instead of vertical alignment? i did some zigzag that were not horizontal nor vertical, so i didn't make it vertical.
00:25:253 (8,9,10,11,12) - move it 4 pixels to the left for the same reason as previous done
00:52:124 (8) - this slider ends on more important louder sound than starts i repeated 4-1-2 (circles) patterns, if i change it, that would be really confusing.
00:55:012 (11) - this too, starts on blue tick, i dont see any reason for it, start 1/4 sliders on more important sound instead of random circle slider spam
00:55:413 (2) - i think it should be attached to 00:55:493 (3,4,5,6) - this pattern on right side i made it to make it easier to read, but finally, i used the same spacing, changed.
01:02:953 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this 01:03:274 (5) - is loud important sound so maybe do something like this (of course overlap it perfectly, i did it handly) i prefer the current curve because i wanted to keep a maximum of circle vertical.
01:04:557 (3,4,5,6,7) - isnt perfect line fixed.
01:16:670 (10,11) - move this 4 pixels to the right done.
01:41:295 (10,1) - blanket is few pixels off on right side fixed.
02:07:766 (5) - NC? added.
02:54:611 (17) - NC, such important sound on big white tick (like you did 03:03:515 (16,1) - ) added.
03:23:568 (2,4,6,8) - make it linear, bottom(03:23:648 (3,5,7) - ) is so why top not, it would be difficult to re-arrange well without breaking the straight line.
03:44:664 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - music is getting faster so you can increase spacing progressively i keep the same spacing everywhere
03:45:868 - skipped sound? oh yea, nice catch, fixed.
03:45:948 (8) - NC done.
04:05:520 (5,9,13) - i think this pattern with NC like you did previously would fit better done.
04:22:846 (11,12,13,14,10,11,12,13) - these overlaps looks weird not really they are playable
05:06:803 (10) - music changes, so NC would fit perfectly i forgot to add nc here

That's it, nice and solid map, hard to mod it but i hope i've helped somehow, good luck with the map

Net0 wrote:

I saw your queue opened, I’m glad I got curious.

[ Phantasm ]

1. I suppose HP 8 is out of question? :3 i don't really like to set HP>7, even if the map is dense, but i will raise to 7
2. 00:03:916 (1,2,3,4,5) – here the sounds of 00:04:156 (4,5) – are a bit more emphasized compared to 00:03:916 (1,2,3) - . Since this is the start of the map I suppose you don’t want to go too crazy here with shapes and stuff, but you could consider making them a bit different, a stack might work. Same thing with 00:09:049 (1,2,3,4,5) - / 00:14:183 (1,2,3,4,5) -. It is really intentional to make it 100% consistent, i could vary patterns but i had in mind that following the same rhythm during the whole section is easier than varying it, especially when you play with mods. Making things difficult was not my first intention.
3. Consider working this pattern with symmetry 00:41:937 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) – since this is a group of 4 similar rhythm/sound patterns and considering they’re 4 groups, a symmetry with x/y axis with a triangle add more to the map imo compared to the current version of making this two 00:41:937 (1,2,3,1,2,3) – triangles and this two 00:43:221 (1,2,3,1,2,3) – squared based patterns. I also took into account that you actually worked with this idea of symmetry 00:41:135 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) -, which only makes me thing even more that this 00:43:862 (1,2,3) – should be related to this 00:41:135 (1,2,3) – and 00:41:937 (1,2,3) – with 00:43:221 (1,2,3) -. Pretty nice idea, and i think you will be the only person who will suggest me that. I prefer to keep the current patterns and their placement, it is possible to make them all symmetrical like you suggested but it was also intentional to place the last "three 1/2 circles" 00:44:504 (1,2,3) - like how they are currently are to introduce the next pattern better imo. The second group of three circles patterns is followed by an hexagon which introduces the retarded stream fast stream pattern, but the hexagon was not introduced same, because of the 1/1 gap between it and the previous three circles pattern
4. I have issues with how you mapped the kicks of the music on this sections 00:51:402 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - .
   There is a basic rhythm that repeats itself multiples times 00:51:402 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) – and one variation 00:55:253 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - .
   In the basic rhythm the kicks are mapped in this way; first kick is a kick slider 00:51:402 (1) - / second kick is mapped with circle followed by another circle in a continuous stream 00:51:563 (2,3) - / Same goes for the next kick 00:51:723 (4,5) - there’s a kickslider for a distinct sound here 00:51:884 (6) – and then when the next kick appears it’s a circle followed by a kick slider 00:52:044 (7,8) – and the idea repeats itself here 00:52:365 (10,11) - . There’s a lot multiple layering mapping here that I found quite interesting but rather inconsistent with the song. My suggestion is that if you want to make a distinction between this segments 00:51:402 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - / 00:52:044 (7,8,9,10,11,12) – you should probably make the first one more consistent https://puu.sh/xTM5q.jpg since the sound you’re mapping with the kickslider here 00:51:884 (6) – is treated differently in the next section being mapped passively by sliderend and circle 00:52:124 (8,9) -/00:52:445 (11,12) - I can see how you think and this could be another way to map this section. But following kicks here is not my first intention. Before mapping this part i spent like 2 hours finding a rhythm to follow the most audible 1/4 notes you can hear (kicks not included), and i found that i just have to repeat 4-1-2-1 (circles) with the variation you mentioned. How this is currently mapped is another meta that we don't really see it in modern mapping. To resume i followed everything else than kicks during this part.
5. 00:55:413 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) – I don’t think this suits the idea of the pattern because of the lack of fast emphasized vocal lines in every 2 consecutive objects since that is starting right here 00:55:734 (6,7,8,9,10) - /which is similar to this case right here 01:11:135 (6,7,8,9,10,11,12) – when you also start earlier the pattern.
   Also in case you want to keep the pattern consider making the 1/1 gaps distance equivalent in DS, currently you have 00:41:616 (3,1) -/00:42:258 (3,1) – 1,3x and 00:42:900 (3,1) - 1,0x and 00:43:541 (3,1) – 1,2x and 00:44:182 (3,1) – 0,9x . I didn't start earlier the pattern, i just extended it (both start on the first circle after the previous 1/4 slider), the reason why i extended the second if that the stream ends on this pattern and there's no more continuous 1/4 notes to follow after it, so i prefered to make a longer stream and end easily with a triple. And DS fixed.
6. Are you sure about the sound here being entirely 1/8 02:18:354 (1) - ? Like if you’re overmapping for the transition I’m fine with it, but I’m not sure if that was your intention since you mapped 1/8 according to the song in other situations like this 01:21:723 (5) – for example. 1/8 are barely audible but i think it's fine
7. Something that could add more to this section is making NC every two objects, it’s not something that the map requires, but rather something you can add to it so that the visual aspect can have somewhat more impact since this part really stands out compared to all other parts of the song in the entire 5 minutes of it , like this; 04:25:734 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - https://puu.sh/xTLfr.jpg I'm not really fan with these NC spam, i prefer to keep the current NCs, because dense patterns give enough recovery to the player.
   

It was a very smart choice not picking grid 1, even tho this is a tribute to DJPop making visuals with that grid is a really hard task.
I just gave a few suggestions because this map doesn’t need major suggestions or anything like that, it’s a map with a clear goal, which is mapping similar to a mapping I believe is truly solid in terms of consistency and coherence. Thank you a lot for this map, I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks that old style like this belongs in ranked.
In case you think this mod was useful, consider m4m with this mapset; https://osu.ppy.sh/s/646368
There’s a diff there I think you might wanna mod

Yusomi wrote:

hii, cool map idea

here's my m4m

01:01:188 (6) - , 01:21:723 (5) - and 01:42:258 (5) - cool sound in music is left on sliderend, are you sure you want to do that? It is possible but i prefer to avoid 1/8 gaps between objects that's why i made the white tick followed by the sliderend, so i keep the current reversed sliders
01:20:279 (5,6,7,8) - maybe make these like this 01:13:221 (1,2,3,4,5) - ? I prefer to vary patterns, i don't make spaced or jumps patterns so i have to manage how i can vary things, i keep the current pattern.
01:30:386 (4,5,6,7,8) - the slight curve on this stream looks slightly out of place imo, maybe just make it straight? up to you. Not really but i arranged it a little to make it more symmetrical with the previous circles
02:02:632 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - pretty inconsistent spacing in this one yea, fixed.
from 02:23:809 (1) - to 02:32:793 (1) - , in this section i cant really understand why triples are being placed the way they are. Like, if you use a triple here 02:25:574 (5,6,7) - , then shouldn't there be a triple here 02:28:140 (4,5) - also? added a triple.

03:23:568 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this can be organised better if you want what's wrong with this one ?
03:44:023 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - because of the angle of this, the player has to speed up from the previous stream then slow down again, which isn't very comfortable to play. this issue isn't in the next two streams so I think it's best to change the angle of this into something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9299200 as there is a much smoother transition and it also improves consistency with the next two streams i don't really like the motion between 7-8-1-2 in your idea, because it might break the whole thing, i prefer the current pattern, i don't really feel any problem with it while playing.
05:07:445 (4,5,6,7) - there's a strong sound on the red tick between these, you can use that if you want it is not really noticeable, i prefer to not follow it.
good luck !

-GN wrote:

i have no problem with the beat placement of this map, well done. there are lots of seemingly intentional breaks from the rigid style DJPop uses in this map, and i think most of them are pretty okay and gives the map charm. some of them just strike me as unsatisfying, though...

00:36:001 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - zigzag is uneven fixed.
00:41:135 (1,2) - move 2 one grid to the right to line up with 1, might wanna move 3 as well not sure fixed, and also fixed the symmetry
01:13:221 (1,2,3,4) - 2 is off lol i shouldn't map with grid 4, fixed.
01:13:862 (9,10,11,12,1) - this lines up pretty weirdly imo. maybe try making it vertically symmetrical, or direct the zigzag in another direction? made it vertical
01:15:146 (7,8,9,10) - doesn't seem like the kind of angle DJPop would make but not important made it vertical because of what i fixed before lol
01:26:857 (10,11,12) - move 2 grids down fixed.
01:49:156 (11,1,2,3,4) - move (3,4) 1 grid down for perfect zigzag fixed.
02:03:033 (7,8,9,1) - move 1 grid to right? fixed.
02:21:483 (2,3,4,5) - move 2 to x:444 y:168 for a slightly clearer pentagon shape + linear entry to this pattern? (it's slightly off, but nobody will be able to tell!)
03:02:311 (1) i wish this stream followed the same ladder pattern as the previous 1/2s... it's kinda ridiculous but it feel it'd be just in line with this map i had no idea so i pu it randomly like this /me runs
03:22:846 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - i feel like this stream should be arranged so that the first half is positioned in the middle of the height of the wider zigzags(2 grids down), thought it looked pretty weird when playing, and the repositioning you have to do is also weird
03:23:648 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - also what is up with this zigzag even? it should be made cleaner fixed, now the stream plays on a straight line, and i fixed the zigzag.
03:40:975 (2,3,4) - the part that starts here - i feel like it should be closer to what the original plays like, as in, starting with triangles or a smaller shape and repeating itself in a visible way. i think that would make this part much more distinct and interesting, like the zigzag deathstream that starts later which i love. Here i don't really want to copy/make the same thing as djpop, i already did it with the next long zigzag stream, i prefer to keep a part of my mapping style which is mainly symmetrical and smooth.
03:55:734 (10,11,12,13,14) - move (13,14) 2 grids down so they form the same bend as (10,11,12)? i like my idea here ;w; i prefer to keep the circles on the same line.
04:21:082 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,1) - the bends on this stream look weird. maybe you should make the later part tighter(have sharper angles) so that there's a clear progression through it, or make it more regular? fixed, this was not supposed to be irregular.
04:25:734 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - the start of this puts me off a bit as it's much tighter than the rest of it made the transition smoother, and fixed the stream
05:07:124 (2,3,4,5) - not 90 degrees, but i think it should be fixed.

love this map, so hope it helps you.

testplaying
Now the map must be cleaner !

Deramok wrote:

after playing the map a few times because i really like the idea behind it and the original map, i have some concerns about the rhythm choices
i'll just say in beforehand though, that if you value bass lines over foreground synth melodies and if you don't want to take rhyhtms as strictly as the original does this is going to be a red wall as those are the main things i dislike about the map and the feeling it gives off.

1. 00:45:146 (2,3,4) - if you map this triple you also might one on 00:50:279 (5,6) - i don't follow the same layer, that's why i didn't keep consistency here.
2. 00:51:884 (6) - from what i get this entire stream stuff is concepted around having the sliders on strong or longer vocals, which is also the way the old joint struggle handles it after all and it's why those streams work so well even though they are as convoluted as they are, so this slider is pretty random i think and should just be two more notes (03:04:878 (1) - 04:23:167 (1) - those streams also has a bunch of out of place emphasis sliders, if you want to change anything on them and want me to point at specifics there too, you can just pm me). I don't really follow that current meta which is using objects to emphasize. I do it on all my other maps, but not on this one because repeating the same rhythm is part of the old meta, even if today, it's questionable.
3. 00:52:365 (10,11) - similarely i think the slider should come first in this relationship for the same reason of strong vocals. so together is sounds like https://puu.sh/y0qa7/355a59d843.png to me. not sure if you want to add the irregularities to make it more complex artificailly, which imo doesn't really complement the djpop way or i'm just interpreting it differently. i know it had me unable to figure out the timings while playing unlike on the old joint struggle at least. those two points ofc go for the all repetitions as well if you agree. Same reason as above, i made it on purpose (repeating 4-1-2 circles streams)
4. 01:03:434 (7,8) - missing a note there and there 01:06:001 (7,8,9) - . i don't think it would hurt the map if you filled them in. added.
5. 01:22:846 (5) - since you're focusing the melody synth here it could work out to just skip 5 as only 6 and 7 are supported by that synth. but i guess if you want to keep equal 1/2 gaps with help of the bass that's fine too (01:36:803 (4) - doesn't have the bass though, so maybe double check that one) uuuh you're asking me to make a polarity issue, no way lol. and the other object you mentioned, i just follow another sound.
6. 01:31:509 (3,4) - missing a note agian in the focus synth which could easly be added in the current shape using only 1/2s give a better impression than using combined 1/2 and 1/4s, that's how i see this part.
7. 01:38:087 (4,5,6,7) - also depending on what you value more, the bass or the focus synth, this could be two doubles instead which would be a nice variation as well and variations like that and their accurate representation, also with a priority on them over the bass that basically just functions as metronome anyway, are the main thing that makes the song and old map interesting in the first place to me. skipping strong beats to make doubles isn't what i want when mapping this song, for sure i can do it if only it starts on a white tick
8. 02:05:841 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - that one also actually threw me off while playing even as the synth plays single double double and then starts the stream. the bass could possibly connect the doubles (thought i'd personally prefere it without that). but i suppose i can see it if you just want a more massive stream for intensity and pattern impact reasons if you value those higher than rhythmical accuracy this stream is nice as it is ;w;
9. 02:09:691 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - similarely to that also the beginning of this stream is off. especially bothering here because the transition into the zig-zag doesn't represent any proper change anymore with the change in melody hanging somewhere in the middle at 02:10:172 (5) - or 02:10:333 (7) - depending how you interpret it. You're not forced to place every objects to reflect the song, this zigzag are here to make the whole stream more challenging to play.
10. 02:15:386 (6,2,5) - also here there are gaps in the synth. i see what stream in the original this is taking reference from, however that one is fully supported by the song and even if you want to keep up the same concept over the inaccuracy at leas tthe first marked note should still be ocncidered for removal as that would also follow the reference structure no, no, the stream really starts earlier and it doens't stop and i don't really get which reference you're talking.
11. 02:20:199 (3,4) - slider comes one tick too late for synth, again depending on bass-synth preference. I'm not forced to start the second stream on 02:20:600 (7) - which 90% of mappers would do, as i said, the concept is different, i don't map to emphasize strong beats here.
12. 02:24:691 (9) - an unsupported note that only takes away from the harder hits as i said, i use my own rhythm.
13. 02:28:461 (7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1,2,3,4) - since this part is going for a high density low spacing build up you might as well go full out and take the entire rhythm https://puu.sh/y0rpK/9c331f5ea1.png i didn't want to make this part really dense because it's one of the most calm section on the map, that's why i also stacked triples here instead of making them spaced.
14. 02:47:873 (5,6,7,1) - you opt for the strong sound with the tension triple i take it. but then you don't do it anymore on any of the other occasions. As i repeated i use my own rhythm and i use a triple when it's the strongest note, and it is, i didn't so it here 02:53:007 (5) - because of the stream which comes later, and a triple + long stream here, including the context is uuuuh.
15. 03:23:488 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - should probably either turn this around so it gets denser over it's runtime since it starts out straight forward and having it denser somewhere in the middle is weird. or have it even throughout. can't change it because i made it played on a straight line and there is the same distance between each circles.
16. 03:53:648 (1,2) - maybe map this triple too since it's the only synth one not mapped in the entire part done.
17. 04:12:659 (10) - to keep it together with 04:11:777 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - being mapped on the bass that one should probably also be deleted i prefer the current pattern because a longer streams gives a better impression and intensity than 4 triples with the same distance imo, and making only triples here will make 04:13:060 (2,3,4) - "fades away behind the previous triples's shade."
18. 04:14:183 (1,2,3) - would make more sense if the object oder was reversed that's another view of mapping it, the current pattern is directly derived from djpop (starting with a 1/4 slider) which works well.
19. 04:14:664 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - also just two triples no matter how i look at it using long streams on kiai when it's possible i really my first intention, so i don't want to make a lot of triples.
20. 04:22:606 (8) - one more imo counterproductive filler who told you my first intention is to follow kicks ? if you listen carefully it's one of the most intense note lol. Counterproductive or not, i didn't design the pattern to make kicks played like kicks as you saw here 04:11:777 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - .. Remaking the pattern to keep consistency and make the pattern gives nice impression would not really be a nice deal here because i will have to re-arrange everything after it.

1. I personally found the metadata for this song to be quite... dubious, to say the least. Well, here are few of the things I found :
   
   1. The version you're mapping is actually titled Yakumo >>JOINT STRUGGLE (2014 ReWorks), according to Kucchi's SoundCloud page : http://soundcloud.com/kucchi/bof2009-ya ... t-struggle
   2. Although I can't really find the original BMS page, according to this wiki the original song's title is actually Yakumo ＞＞JOINT STRUGGLE -隙間- (notice the "＞＞" instead of the regular ">>")
   3. In the screenshot below taken from the original BMS script, the name "Akky" (or Aki?) is also being mentioned in the song's artist :
   
   
2. Personally I'd go with the first one here (Yakumo >>JOINT STRUGGLE (2014 ReWorks)) as it's what is written on Kucchi's personal SoundCloud, but I think it would be better if you ask for a QAT's opinion regarding this xD
3. ---
4. Perhaps reduce the stack leniency to ~ 4 so that parts like 04:02:632 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) can be stacked perfectly atop of each other for more old-school feel?
5. Also here (in my opinion) the soft-hitfinish's cymbals blend in much better to the song's cymbals compared to normal-hitfinish, so I think you can try to use Sampleset : Normal Addition : Soft on every objects you currently having Finish at (:

1. 00:02:231 (7,8,9) - Swap these objects' positions? I think due to how the vocal sounded here it would feel more natural if there's a non-lateral movement from the (6) to (7) to switch away from the previous horizontal flow (as you did on your next 00:07:124 (5,6,7,8)) as following :
   
   SPOILER

   
2. 00:12:098 (4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2) - Small stuff here but (4,7,1) and (5,9,2) isn't currently arranged in a proportionate straight line. It's nothing major but fixing this would improve this part's aesthetics very much really o.o
3. 00:19:317 (1,2,3,4,5) - It feels weird to have this section particularly left without hitsound in my opinion. Perhaps follow this hitsounding pattern instead as mappers such as DaRRi MIx/Natteke/LC did a lot to fill in the sounds before the hard part? Hehe
   
   1. 00:19:317 (1) - Whistle on slider's start
   2. 00:19:638 (2) - Whistle on slider's start
   3. 00:20:119 (4) - Whistle
   4. 00:20:279 (5) - Finish
4. 00:40:493 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - Create a zig-zag here instead to emphasize the strong consecutive drums more (as done brilliantly in this map, for example)?
   
   SPOILER

   
5. 00:44:504 (1,2,3,1) - Arrange these four into a small jump as well? The idea here is that these four - especially the (1,2,3) - belongs to the same group of sound with your previous (1,2,3)s so I think it would be best to continue the jumpy trend here before the spacing restores to normal on 00:44:985 (1) onwards :
   
   SPOILER

   
6. 00:49:638 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - More or less same as above - this also belongs to the same group of sound with your previous (1,2,3)s so it would be best to preserve the player's jumpy momentum here by increasing this hexagon's spacing (by using the "Edit -> Scale By..." feature, for example)
7. 00:51:884 (6,8) - Hmm, is it intentional that they're not parallel to each other? (Again, nothing major but fixing this would greatly improve this part's beauty :3)
8. 00:55:894 (8,9,10,11,12) - A small suggestion here, perhaps arrange these like this? The concept's here so that there's an upward flow building from these five which then was followed immediately by a sharp vertical drop to follow the synth's progression :
   
   SPOILER

   
9. 01:00:386 (1) - Another suggestion here, perhaps shape this into a Z-shaped slider to capture the feel of the "whoosh" sound effect more?
   
   SPOILER

   
10. 01:01:188 (6) - Perhaps consider using a gradual volume increase here (30% -> 45% -> 60% perhaps) to follow the song's volume dynamics here?
11. 01:16:910 (12) - Maybe place this more downward compared to (11) instead (~ y:309) to avoid the visible contact with your previous 01:15:948 (3,4) and to follow the song's vocal pitch (which actually goes lower here instead of going higher like in your next 01:17:231 (2,4))?
12. 01:20:921 (1) - Use Sampleset : Soft on slider's end instead? There's nothing going on the song there, so I think it'll be much more fitting if you blend the slider's end here with Soft instead of Normal o.o
13. 01:21:723 (5) - Same with 01:01:188 here regarding the gradual volume increase
14. 01:31:349 (2,3,4) - The synth actually goes on the blue tick as well here, so perhaps consider changing this into a quintuple (:
15. 01:39:049 (2) - Same here, although (if you decided to alter this) it can be easily done by applying this pattern :
    
    SPOILER

    
16. 01:42:258 (5) - Same with 01:01:188 here regarding the gradual volume increase
17. 01:51:563 (11,1,2,3,4) - Since you're only following the strong beats here (there are no synth at all at this position), perhaps add a small jump here somewhere to emphasize the strong beats?
18. 02:01:991 (1) - Perhaps add Finish here? I very much think that this "nya~" sound here highly deserves to be emphasized more somehow but I can't really think of anything except for the Finish here >_<
19. 02:15:146 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - This is just a personal thought, but rather than forcing a weirdly angled curve here I think it would be much more natural if the second half of the stream is shaped into a wave instead (I put (3,4,5,6) more to the right compared to your current position so that (7)'s position can be better emphasized by the way) :
    
    SPOILER

    
20. 02:22:204 (5,6,1,2) - and 02:23:327 (5,6,7,1) - Arrange these into a small jump as well (as it belongs to the same group of sound with your jumpy (1,2,3,4))?
21. 02:32:793 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - To emphasize the scratching sound from the song perhaps try to make (1,2) and (3,4) into a 1/4 slider instead (like in the screenshot below, for example)? I know it's not particularly older mapper's style but it would add a REALLY brilliant gimmick that blends very well to the song here imo xD
    
    SPOILER

    
22. 02:43:060 (1) - Missing Finish here? (there's a cymbal sound here as well actually)
23. 02:43:862 (7) - Same with 01:01:188 here regarding the gradual volume increase
24. 02:59:745 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,...) - I also think that you can play around a bit with some kind of more "modern" spacing tricks in order to accentuate the song much more here (like in the screenshot below for example) - I know it's (yet again) not particularly something that is commonly found in older maps but this one feels very much being needed here regardless of the mapping style really :
    
    SPOILER

    
25. 03:04:397 (8) - Same with 01:01:188 here regarding the gradual volume increase
26. 03:22:846 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This is just a personal thought, but I think if your intention is to build on the intensity here the stream should be arranged the other way around (the first half should be the one with the denser spacing and the second half should be the one with the sparser spacing)
27. 03:38:247 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - Yet again, this is a place that very much calls for some of the more gimmicky pattern. Perhaps use something like this here?
    
    SPOILER

    
28. 03:45:948 (1,3) - Add whistle on these two as well? Aside from following the vocal's tune, this is also to reduce the awkwardness in the transition between your previous long Sampleset : Normal streams to the sudden Sampleset : Soft part~
29. 03:59:985 - Add circle here? The synth actually continues here as well :3
30. 04:07:124 (1) - Perhaps add a gradual volume increase here as well followed by a silent (~ 10 - 30%) volume on spinner's end (to follow the muffled synth sound there)?
31. 04:17:713 (8) - Missing clap here? Basically this is still in the same combo chain as your previous combos - the clap-less combo chain should only start in the next (1), the downbeat, instead actually o.o
32. 04:27:338 (2) - Hmm, I personally think that the glitchy noise here would be perfectly represented by Sampleset : Drum here xD
33. 04:30:707 (10) - Should be on ~x:400 (one grid to the right) but that's very much not something major~
34. 05:09:210 (1) - Also here, perhaps silence (with ~10% volume) the slider's end here as there's nothing coming from the song at that point?

Niva wrote:

Hello there CB~ Well, after pouring in some thought I realized I never modded your map either, so I think I'll give it a shot as well on this one (*^-^)

I hope you didn't mind, though :3

[General]

1. I personally found the metadata for this song to be quite... dubious, to say the least. Well, here are few of the things I found :
   
   1. The version you're mapping is actually titled Yakumo >>JOINT STRUGGLE (2014 ReWorks), according to Kucchi's SoundCloud page : http://soundcloud.com/kucchi/bof2009-ya ... t-struggle
   2. Although I can't really find the original BMS page, according to this wiki the original song's title is actually Yakumo ＞＞JOINT STRUGGLE -隙間- (notice the "＞＞" instead of the regular ">>")
   3. In the screenshot below taken from the original BMS script, the name "Akky" (or Aki?) is also being mentioned in the song's artist :
   
   
2. Personally I'd go with the first one here (Yakumo >>JOINT STRUGGLE (2014 ReWorks)) as it's what is written on Kucchi's personal SoundCloud, but I think it would be better if you ask for a QAT's opinion regarding this xD
3. ---
   Concerning metadata , "2014 reWorks" looks like the title of a folder (if you can call it like that) of songs he remade, so i don't really think i should add it on a title. I copied the title from his soundcloud page. The youtube link you provided may not be the official yt from the artist so it is not considered as a reliable source. And the title on his soundcloud page is the same as his BMS page http://manbow.nothing.sh/event/event.cg ... 5&event=60
   
4. Perhaps reduce the stack leniency to ~ 4 so that parts like 04:02:632 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) can be stacked perfectly atop of each other for more old-school feel? reduced to 2
5. Also here (in my opinion) the soft-hitfinish's cymbals blend in much better to the song's cymbals compared to normal-hitfinish, so I think you can try to use Sampleset : Normal Addition : Soft on every objects you currently having Finish at (: Yes i will do what i can do for it.

[Phantasm]

1. 00:02:231 (7,8,9) - Swap these objects' positions? I think due to how the vocal sounded here it would feel more natural if there's a non-lateral movement from the (6) to (7) to switch away from the previous horizontal flow (as you did on your next 00:07:124 (5,6,7,8)) as following :
   
   SPOILER

   
   did something else according to your idea.
2. 00:12:098 (4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2) - Small stuff here but (4,7,1) and (5,9,2) isn't currently arranged in a proportionate straight line. It's nothing major but fixing this would improve this part's aesthetics very much really o.o fixed.
3. 00:19:317 (1,2,3,4,5) - It feels weird to have this section particularly left without hitsound in my opinion. Perhaps follow this hitsounding pattern instead as mappers such as DaRRi MIx/Natteke/LC did a lot to fill in the sounds before the hard part? Hehe
   
   1. 00:19:317 (1) - Whistle on slider's start
   2. 00:19:638 (2) - Whistle on slider's start
   3. 00:20:119 (4) - Whistle
   4. 00:20:279 (5) - Finish
   applied your hitsounding pattern, excepted the finish hitsound, i used whistle instead.
4. 00:40:493 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - Create a zig-zag here instead to emphasize the strong consecutive drums more (as done brilliantly in this map, for example)? done
   
   SPOILER

   
5. 00:44:504 (1,2,3,1) - Arrange these four into a small jump as well? The idea here is that these four - especially the (1,2,3) - belongs to the same group of sound with your previous (1,2,3)s so I think it would be best to continue the jumpy trend here before the spacing restores to normal on 00:44:985 (1) onwards : eeeh, i'm not doing any jump in this map ;w;
   
   SPOILER

   
6. 00:49:638 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - More or less same as above - this also belongs to the same group of sound with your previous (1,2,3)s so it would be best to preserve the player's jumpy momentum here by increasing this hexagon's spacing (by using the "Edit -> Scale By..." feature, for example) and i keep using the same spacing during all the map :3
7. 00:51:884 (6,8) - Hmm, is it intentional that they're not parallel to each other? (Again, nothing major but fixing this would greatly improve this part's beauty :3) fixed
8. 00:55:894 (8,9,10,11,12) - A small suggestion here, perhaps arrange these like this? The concept's here so that there's an upward flow building from these five which then was followed immediately by a sharp vertical drop to follow the synth's progression : i prefer to keep the current placement which looks more fluid imo, i don't reaaly look for the kind of flow you suggested because the compressed circles before are very stressful and your suggestion would make the whole thing more stressful lol.
   
   SPOILER

   
9. 01:00:386 (1) - Another suggestion here, perhaps shape this into a Z-shaped slider to capture the feel of the "whoosh" sound effect more? yaaaaaay, done
   
   SPOILER

   
10. 01:01:188 (6) - Perhaps consider using a gradual volume increase here (30% -> 45% -> 60% perhaps) to follow the song's volume dynamics here? done.
11. 01:16:910 (12) - Maybe place this more downward compared to (11) instead (~ y:309) to avoid the visible contact with your previous 01:15:948 (3,4) and to follow the song's vocal pitch (which actually goes lower here instead of going higher like in your next 01:17:231 (2,4))? there's no contact with 3,4 here ;w;
12. 01:20:921 (1) - Use Sampleset : Soft on slider's end instead? There's nothing going on the song there, so I think it'll be much more fitting if you blend the slider's end here with Soft instead of Normal o.o done.
13. 01:21:723 (5) - Same with 01:01:188 here regarding the gradual volume increase done.
14. 01:31:349 (2,3,4) - The synth actually goes on the blue tick as well here, so perhaps consider changing this into a quintuple (: as i said previously "1/2s give a better impression than using combined 1/2 and 1/4s, that's how i see this part."
15. 01:39:049 (2) - Same here, although (if you decided to alter this) it can be easily done by applying this pattern : same as ^
    
    SPOILER

    
16. 01:42:258 (5) - Same with 01:01:188 here regarding the gradual volume increase done.
17. 01:51:563 (11,1,2,3,4) - Since you're only following the strong beats here (there are no synth at all at this position), perhaps add a small jump here somewhere to emphasize the strong beats? if i do it, there will be a spacing difference with 01:52:525 (4,5) - which i don't want to make.
18. 02:01:991 (1) - Perhaps add Finish here? I very much think that this "nya~" sound here highly deserves to be emphasized more somehow but I can't really think of anything except for the Finish here >_< this sound is monotonous here, so i prefer to not add a finish.
19. 02:15:146 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - This is just a personal thought, but rather than forcing a weirdly angled curve here I think it would be much more natural if the second half of the stream is shaped into a wave instead (I put (3,4,5,6) more to the right compared to your current position so that (7)'s position can be better emphasized by the way) : i prefer to keep simple shapes, your shape may be too "not-old mapping style" :3
    
    SPOILER

    
20. 02:22:204 (5,6,1,2) - and 02:23:327 (5,6,7,1) - Arrange these into a small jump as well (as it belongs to the same group of sound with your jumpy (1,2,3,4))? i prefer to not touch this pattern anymore to not break the symmetry and not spend 30 mins to re-arrange and understand why i can't make things structured ;w;
21. 02:32:793 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - To emphasize the scratching sound from the song perhaps try to make (1,2) and (3,4) into a 1/4 slider instead (like in the screenshot below, for example)? I know it's not particularly older mapper's style but it would add a REALLY brilliant gimmick that blends very well to the song here imo xD i'm not planning to follow the scratching sound haha, these sliders you make are so deadly lol, i prefer to keep doing simple things like 1/2 circles.
    
    SPOILER

    
22. 02:43:060 (1) - Missing Finish here? (there's a cymbal sound here as well actually) fixed.
23. 02:43:862 (7) - Same with 01:01:188 here regarding the gradual volume increase done.
24. 02:59:745 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,...) - I also think that you can play around a bit with some kind of more "modern" spacing tricks in order to accentuate the song much more here (like in the screenshot below for example) - I know it's (yet again) not particularly something that is commonly found in older maps but this one feels very much being needed here regardless of the mapping style really : as i said, i don't want to put jump or spacing variation on this map
    
    SPOILER

    
25. 03:04:397 (8) - Same with 01:01:188 here regarding the gradual volume increase fixed.
26. 03:22:846 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This is just a personal thought, but I think if your intention is to build on the intensity here the stream should be arranged the other way around (the first half should be the one with the denser spacing and the second half should be the one with the sparser spacing) i rather see a decrescendo, that's why i compressed the second part, maybe another view on how things should be done on this part ;w;
27. 03:38:247 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - Yet again, this is a place that very much calls for some of the more gimmicky pattern. Perhaps use something like this here? no jumps.
    
    SPOILER

    
28. 03:45:948 (1,3) - Add whistle on these two as well? Aside from following the vocal's tune, this is also to reduce the awkwardness in the transition between your previous long Sampleset : Normal streams to the sudden Sampleset : Soft part~ done.
29. 03:59:985 - Add circle here? The synth actually continues here as well :3 there are many ticks i didnt follow on purpose to vary patterns or keeping consistency, it is possible but i prefer to keep the current pattern.
30. 04:07:124 (1) - Perhaps add a gradual volume increase here as well followed by a silent (~ 10 - 30%) volume on spinner's end (to follow the muffled synth sound there)? done.
31. 04:17:713 (8) - Missing clap here? Basically this is still in the same combo chain as your previous combos - the clap-less combo chain should only start in the next (1), the downbeat, instead actually o.o uuh adding a clap here sounds really weird to me.
32. 04:27:338 (2) - Hmm, I personally think that the glitchy noise here would be perfectly represented by Sampleset : Drum here xD done.
33. 04:30:707 (10) - Should be on ~x:400 (one grid to the right) but that's very much not something major~ fixed.
34. 05:09:210 (1) - Also here, perhaps silence (with ~10% volume) the slider's end here as there's nothing coming from the song at that point? done.

Well, I never modded this kind of map previously so modding this map is definitely a different experience for me... I hope that the suggestions that I pointed out above would fit very well into the map without crossing away from the map's original intention here (*^-^)
eeh, that's the first time i'm trying to map like this, old style-maps :3

Best of luck CB :3 yes I'll definitely take a look at Käfig soon when I have time xD yaaay

Muya wrote:

hi