OMG XDDDSotarks wrote:
pls fix
forum
KANA-BOON - Baton Road
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i'm here with the usefull dq post!!
sotarks 4 qat manager
plzzzSotarks wrote:
i'm here with the usefull dq post!!
I don't think anyone can deny the fact that it was a mistake lol xD
xdddd rip
plz noRealazy wrote:
sotarks 4 qat manager
also rip XD
Topic Starter
It's not necessary, but I'll fix it.
grats gero, though seems you are gonna request dq
Congratulations <3Gero wrote:
Anime.
I just started watching Boruto. So glad to see this ranked now :3
Congratulations Gero!
Congratulations Gero!
serious post this time
why is irre's diff using electronic kick hitsounds, sounds completely out of place
also I thought you have stacking enabled yet things like 01:11:515 (4,5,1) - just look horrible
also some other things
top difficulty
there is a completele lack of any form of contrast/differentiation between most parts
mainly looking at 00:15:589 - compared to 00:51:145 -
every part is just the same jump 1/2 + triple spam including sudden jumps across most of the playfield when there is nothing to justify them like 00:30:034 (5,1,2,3) -
oh well I guess you added some spaced streams (of which most don't make much sense since they are partially overmapped/mixing multiple layers)
but that's about it
most of these streams also fail to capture the rather unique drum rhythm
^this seems to go for most I/X diffs in this set actually
bor and monstrata did it kinda alright
this whole difficulty feels like you just placed some symmetry focused patterns with no regards for the song
monstrata
00:48:182 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - yes spiking difficulty there is fine, bit this is just too much. and I already know you will pull off the whole "subjective" thing again
also the rhythms of your some of your jump patterns are pretty unreasonable
01:10:404 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - what is this even following? 1-2 are nice for the double vocal + cymbal, but then making the snare on 01:10:774 (3) - also clickable, and everythinng after it too, with no differentiation on movement or anything is just ????
venix
similar issue to top diff with all parts of the map feeling pretty much the same
also some questionable rhythm choices like 01:25:774 (4,6) - mixing whatever existent and even nonexistent sounds into one mindless jump pattern
01:01:515 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - similar issue here, these things just make it completely unclear what you're trying to follow
didn't really look at lower diffs cause I'm getting tired of this, but these things probably repeat in some of them
yea I don't think this should get ranked like it is right now
why is irre's diff using electronic kick hitsounds, sounds completely out of place
also I thought you have stacking enabled yet things like 01:11:515 (4,5,1) - just look horrible
also some other things
top difficulty
there is a completele lack of any form of contrast/differentiation between most parts
mainly looking at 00:15:589 - compared to 00:51:145 -
every part is just the same jump 1/2 + triple spam including sudden jumps across most of the playfield when there is nothing to justify them like 00:30:034 (5,1,2,3) -
oh well I guess you added some spaced streams (of which most don't make much sense since they are partially overmapped/mixing multiple layers)
but that's about it
most of these streams also fail to capture the rather unique drum rhythm
^this seems to go for most I/X diffs in this set actually
bor and monstrata did it kinda alright
this whole difficulty feels like you just placed some symmetry focused patterns with no regards for the song
monstrata
00:48:182 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - yes spiking difficulty there is fine, bit this is just too much. and I already know you will pull off the whole "subjective" thing again
also the rhythms of your some of your jump patterns are pretty unreasonable
01:10:404 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - what is this even following? 1-2 are nice for the double vocal + cymbal, but then making the snare on 01:10:774 (3) - also clickable, and everythinng after it too, with no differentiation on movement or anything is just ????
venix
similar issue to top diff with all parts of the map feeling pretty much the same
also some questionable rhythm choices like 01:25:774 (4,6) - mixing whatever existent and even nonexistent sounds into one mindless jump pattern
01:01:515 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - similar issue here, these things just make it completely unclear what you're trying to follow
didn't really look at lower diffs cause I'm getting tired of this, but these things probably repeat in some of them
yea I don't think this should get ranked like it is right now
fix that while u r at it lolSotarks wrote:
pls fix
Lasse wrote:
this whole difficulty feels like you just placed some symmetry focused patterns with no regards for the song
venix: 00:55:589 (1,2) - 01:00:034 (1,2) - 01:07:441 (1,2) - etc etc. 2 1/2 sliders sound better; pls no click on unimportant while keeping tails on relevant sounds thanks
please no kudos
i'm here to help
glad i did
thank me later
no, seriously, it's fine
please no kudos
i'm here to help
glad i did
thank me later
no, seriously, it's fine
Topic Starter
Take in mind that everyone has their own interpretation of music and they're free to make whatever they want. It's like even if you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong or bad at all. So I hope I explained it clearly as possible. I'm really open about improving it and I'd be glad to receive your help in case that you didn't feel comfortable of it yet. I'm sure that we can get an agreement with this. But since I explained it I think it's not longer neccesary.Lasse wrote:
serious post this time Hello, Lasse.
why is irre's diff using electronic kick hitsounds, sounds completely out of place
also I thought you have stacking enabled yet things like 01:11:515 (4,5,1) - just look horrible I'm pretty sure that this was intentional. I personally asked him before this got qualified. Electronic kick hitsounds? What do you mean? These hitsounds are perfectly fine, they fit in the song well in my opinion. They're free to make their own kind of hitsounds for this song, so that doesn't mean they're wrong or bad at all. I feel you're exaggerating a bit. Btw could you be more respectful when you mod? Saying "just look horrible" is a bit rude, don't you think?
also some other things
top difficulty
there is a completele lack of any form of contrast/differentiation between most parts I think you're being subjective here, let me tell you my thoughts and the intention behind the mapping of it. As you know my style is symmetrical, so I've decided to map it with jumps to emphasize the changes of all stanzas (Exactly the guitar sound you can hear on all of them, take in mind that I'm also emphasizing the drums -claps- all way) also if you check more carefully you will notice that when the voice is slow and calm the spacing is lower, than when the singer goes 00:17:071 (3,4,5,1) - all constant vocals.
The main idea of this difficulty was avoiding using a high amount of sliders. the intention was for it to have jumps through the whole difficulty. So that's how I interpret the music here. Also would you try to not to see it object by object, but complete in general to get the idea behind the whole mapping.
mainly looking at 00:15:589 - compared to 00:51:145 - As I said before the whole difficulty has jumps, and it's being consistent for me. For example 00:27:256 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2) - This part has a kind of small jump due that there's no vocal spam and then suddenly the artist change the way he sing the lyrics so 00:28:923 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - it gets increased more in this part. Emphasize vocals, drum snare, and guitar sound.
every part is just the same jump 1/2 + triple spam including sudden jumps across most of the playfield when there is nothing to justify them like 00:30:034 (5,1,2,3) - It is justified, I explained it above so please take a look at it and try to get the perception, and idea behind this pattern/jump.
oh well I guess you added some spaced streams (of which most don't make much sense since they are partially overmapped/mixing multiple layers)
but that's about it
most of these streams also fail to capture the rather unique drum rhythm
^this seems to go for most I/X diffs in this set actually I'm aware that it feels a bit overmapped but it's not. Did you actually try to hear it closer? That's why I've asked a lot of friends to help me out if the rhythm I used was the correct for them.
bor and monstrata did it kinda alright bor, and Monstrata's ones are following vocals (most of the time). But I wanted to map the rhythms and sounds behind the song, I got possitive feedback due to the fact that it was interesting to emphatize all sounds at once and while making it playable and fun.
this whole difficulty feels like you just placed some symmetry focused patterns with no regards for the song Instead of
Venix has explained their ideas to me. So I'm replying this for him.
venix
similar issue to top diff with all parts of the map feeling pretty much the same That's the point of it. He wanted to be consistent throughout the whole difficulty. That's why it feels like the same but that's totally okay.
also some questionable rhythm choices like 01:25:774 (4,6) - mixing whatever existent and even nonexistent sounds into one mindless jump pattern
01:01:515 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - similar issue here, these things just make it completely unclear what you're trying to follow Regarding these both sections he just wanted to make it more intense than the previous sections, since there are two big sounds; So this actually makes sense, due that you can also notice the increase of the intensity when he add jumps in the difficulty as emphasize it in another and different way which is really valid in my opinion.
didn't really look at lower diffs cause I'm getting tired of this, but these things probably repeat in some of them
yea I don't think this should get ranked like it is right now
Yuii- wrote:
venix: 00:55:589 (1,2) - 01:00:034 (1,2) - 01:07:441 (1,2) - etc etc. 2 1/2 sliders sound better; pls no click on unimportant while keeping tails on relevant sounds thanks
please no kudos
i'm here to help
glad i did
thank me later
no, seriously, it's fine Of course they're fine. These are focused on following the vocals instead.
I actually asked a couple of QATs about it, and they told me that this isn't a valid reason to be disqualified due that it's up to me, so far I think it's good due that "M A R V O L L O's" looks okay, because his name is all capitalized, and using a single 's looks somehow fit like having the opposite in this difficulty name. Doesn't matter that much at all.pkhg wrote:
fix that while u r at it lolSotarks wrote:
pls fix
thanks ^^Lasse wrote:
serious post this time
why is irre's diff using electronic kick hitsounds, sounds completely out of place
also I thought you have stacking enabled yet things like 01:11:515 (4,5,1) - just look horrible
also some other things
top difficulty
there is a completele lack of any form of contrast/differentiation between most parts
mainly looking at 00:15:589 - compared to 00:51:145 -
every part is just the same jump 1/2 + triple spam including sudden jumps across most of the playfield when there is nothing to justify them like 00:30:034 (5,1,2,3) -
oh well I guess you added some spaced streams (of which most don't make much sense since they are partially overmapped/mixing multiple layers)
but that's about it
most of these streams also fail to capture the rather unique drum rhythm
^this seems to go for most I/X diffs in this set actually
bor and monstrata did it kinda alright
this whole difficulty feels like you just placed some symmetry focused patterns with no regards for the song
monstrata
00:48:182 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - yes spiking difficulty there is fine, bit this is just too much. and I already know you will pull off the whole "subjective" thing again
also the rhythms of your some of your jump patterns are pretty unreasonable Yea that's subjective. I think the spike is fine. It's not too much at all imo when compared to the rest of the map. There are other similarly large jumps so this isn't too much when you look at the whole diff.
01:10:404 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - what is this even following? 1-2 are nice for the double vocal + cymbal, but then making the snare on 01:10:774 (3) - also clickable, and everythinng after it too, with no differentiation on movement or anything is just ???? It's following the drum. The next jumps are smaller because of the pitch change and because intensity changes as you can see, which is why there is a diffentiation in movement.
venix
similar issue to top diff with all parts of the map feeling pretty much the same
also some questionable rhythm choices like 01:25:774 (4,6) - mixing whatever existent and even nonexistent sounds into one mindless jump pattern
01:01:515 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - similar issue here, these things just make it completely unclear what you're trying to follow
didn't really look at lower diffs cause I'm getting tired of this, but these things probably repeat in some of them
yea I don't think this should get ranked like it is right now
That's the point of it. He wanted to be consistent throughout the whole difficulty. That's why it feels like the same but that's totally okay.how is that "totally okay"?
The song consists of various sections with varying intensity and this difficulty fails at representing these changes even more than the highest difficulty
this being intentional doesn't make it any better
I'm aware that it feels a bit overmapped but it's not. Did you actually try to hear it closer? That's why I've asked a lot of friends to help me out if the rhythm I used was the correct for them. (...) it was interesting to emphatize all sounds at oncedoesn't change how you throw multiple completely different sounding things into one spaced 5 note stream
my opinion still stands, you completely neglect so much of what is happening in the song, all details of it to place your symmetrical circle spam, making this fell not related to the song at all
I'm not against symmetry focused mapping in general, but the way you executed it
also can you let the actual mappers reply instead..
mmmm I just want to add, that nowadays modders/mappers focus too much on the same concepts and ideas about mapping, which is why every map started to look the same, like why old maps where fun (fun, not high quality), because they focus on a song as a whole instead of object by object.
Gero focus heavily on symmetry and yes I know is not liked by many mappers, because sometimes you are forced to skip a beat or to don't give a proper emphasis to a beat, but a player don't focus on every single object, but as a one single map, which is why I think the map represents the song on its own, idk I really think that modern mapping concepts are killing different kind of maps slowly~
Isn't obvious that venix is following the full word with each 1/1 slider 01:00:034 (1,2) - and using the circle as filler rhythm? like really not everyone map to each Syllable
01:10:404 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - is also obvious that monstrata is following drums, the spacing at the jumps at 00:48:182 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) isn't realy big if you check his general spacing
Gero's symmetry concept is fine IMO, even if he miss some emphasis, about his triplets, there are tons of people overmapping them, gero's one aren't and they follow something in the song.
I disagree with lasse's post.
just my 2 cents
Gero focus heavily on symmetry and yes I know is not liked by many mappers, because sometimes you are forced to skip a beat or to don't give a proper emphasis to a beat, but a player don't focus on every single object, but as a one single map, which is why I think the map represents the song on its own, idk I really think that modern mapping concepts are killing different kind of maps slowly~
Isn't obvious that venix is following the full word with each 1/1 slider 01:00:034 (1,2) - and using the circle as filler rhythm? like really not everyone map to each Syllable
01:10:404 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - is also obvious that monstrata is following drums, the spacing at the jumps at 00:48:182 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) isn't realy big if you check his general spacing
Gero's symmetry concept is fine IMO, even if he miss some emphasis, about his triplets, there are tons of people overmapping them, gero's one aren't and they follow something in the song.
I disagree with lasse's post.
just my 2 cents
Venix's diff feels fine to me. It's very consistent in it's approach. Also, even though "everything is practically the same" you still have to acknowledge that the really important notes are still highlighted. Emphasis and varying spacing just isn't as frequent, but emphasis frequency is something that's relaly just a 2017 mapper mindset tbh... And imo it causes maps to just feel the same and not stand out. If you notice, not many 2017 mappers have a distinguishable style compared to older mappers because their self-imposed mapping rules are too strict to create uniqueness.
As for Gero's 5 note stream, it's still pretty obvious to me that it's 1/4.
As for Gero's 5 note stream, it's still pretty obvious to me that it's 1/4.
totally agree with natsu about the modern mapping killing different kinds of maps.
"killing different" even though symmetry came first than this free style stuff :U but ye, completely agree with you.iYiyo wrote:
totally agree with natsu about the modern mapping killing different kinds of maps.
Try to open yourself to other styles, Lasse. Some people have their own style and you have to respect their way to map the song. You will probably ignore it, because I'm a simple mapper/modder from the pleb, but I think you know more than everyone that being BN consists to be less subjective as possible and try to understand the mapper, no?
If they wanted to map the song this way with their own style, then let them map the way they want, adding rhythm filler or using symetrical patterns somewhere never killed someone, even more when the part is getting intense. As long as the map isn't disgusting, and is good enough/ respect the most important points of the RC and rhythm, then it's ok.
It's my point of view about the situation
If they wanted to map the song this way with their own style, then let them map the way they want, adding rhythm filler or using symetrical patterns somewhere never killed someone, even more when the part is getting intense. As long as the map isn't disgusting, and is good enough/ respect the most important points of the RC and rhythm, then it's ok.
It's my point of view about the situation
can you stop making it sound like I'm trying to kill "different" maps when I'm probably the t2 nominating most of them, thanks
keep the baseless accusations out of this
I love maps that differentiate themself from current "meta maps" or whatever you want to call them, but only if they are executed well, which this one in my opinion is not.
and the electronic drum samples on irre's diff still don't fit the song at all
I'm done posting here, I gave my opinion and reasoning as for why this should not be ranked and don't have anything to add
keep the baseless accusations out of this
I love maps that differentiate themself from current "meta maps" or whatever you want to call them, but only if they are executed well, which this one in my opinion is not.
Monstrata wrote:
As for Gero's 5 note stream, it's still pretty obvious to me that it's 1/4
completely different sounding things into one spaced 5 note streamyes it is 1/4, but that wasn't my point
and the electronic drum samples on irre's diff still don't fit the song at all
I'm done posting here, I gave my opinion and reasoning as for why this should not be ranked and don't have anything to add
hello, recheck. (i can do another map if you want, but i would mod this anyway lol)
also i think this map needs a LOT of work before ranking, please consider these points as such.
anyway, gonna wait for your full redwall before doing more, but i hope you attempt to improve this instead. i'm happy to help, i should be fine to mod now since the most of my treatment is over.
also i think this map needs a LOT of work before ranking, please consider these points as such.
[the pure eye]
so as lasse said, this entire diff lacks differentiation. you can see parts like 00:15:589 - which are significantly calmer instrument and vocal wise, they have the same spacing as the kiai time; for example,
00:17:071 (3,4,5) - and 00:55:589 (3,4,5) - both of which are fairly normal patterns for the part. this should be addressed since making the entire map the same intensity spacing wise is not representing the song's highs and lows well.
aside from that, there's a lot of issues with the rhythm and spacing you used.
00:01:330 (4,5,6,7) - starting here, you could hear the lack of vocal on 00:01:515 (5) - as well as the fact that 00:01:700 (6,7) - are in a different vocal phrase, yet they are all stuck in the same pattern.
additionally, you are following vocals very clearly at 00:02:071 (1,2,3,4,5) - so doing something different the measure before doesn't make any sense.
00:08:182 (1,2) - some way to differentiate these 2 other than higher spacing with the same up and down movement (which does not provide a lot of contrast) would be nice
00:17:997 (4) - this slider starts on something nearly inaudible and ends on a clap, which is something that you previously put a large jump to (00:15:774 (2,3) - )
00:17:812 (3,4) - ctrl g on this rhythm makes a bit more sense in this case.
00:22:812 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - nothing in the song is repeating, so it doen't really make sense to use a repeating pattern here.
00:25:219 (7,8,1,2,3) - using a linear jump with a massive spacing increase here feels very uncomfortable to play, and it doesn't really make sense since neither of 00:25:774 (1,3) - are very strong notes and don't deserve to be emphasized so much.
00:30:034 (5,1,2,3) - again, fullscreen jumps to relatively unimportant sounds just don't make sense at all.
00:34:849 (3,4) - ctrl g for the clear offbeat vocal rhythm would fit a bit better here.
00:37:071 (3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5) - if you listen to the clap rhythm, there are several notes that should be deleted and/or spaced significantly less. for example: 00:37:812 (7) - has no real sound on it yet is a large jump, while 00:37:997 (1,2,3) - puts a lot of emphasis on 3 even though 1, 2 and 4 are the notes with claps on them.
00:39:849 (1) - this section is really nice, its completely different from everything else. this kind of differentiation being implemented everywhere would be amazing.
to be honest, i tried to understand the rhythm of the kiai, but i can't. it's just constant circles, and it doesn't really focus on anything in the song at all. for example:
00:56:145 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1) - you have 2 spaced bursts here, one is on a very loud drum roll, one is on something nearly inaudible, but they are the exact same pattern? this makes no sense, it's like you forced your map onto the song instead of the other way around.
01:01:515 (3,4) - there's a very clear offbeat vocal here, which has a clap hitsound on a slider tail as well, it would be better to ctrl g 01:01:515 (3,4) - in order to show that.
01:05:034 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1) - same issue here, this 2nd burst makes no sense with what the song is doing at all.
01:12:997 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - you put a 5 burst on a nearly inaudible sound, but skip the very clear triple in the melody here. it doesn't make sense to do this.
additionally, 01:13:552 (2,3) - this fullscreen spacing is completely unsupported in the song by melody, vocals, drums, whatever layer. you map similar places (drum claps) with very small spacing, like 01:20:404 (5) - or 01:15:219 (5,1,2,3) - so having the biggest possible vertical jumps on these ones seems incredibly out of place.
01:26:886 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - this entire ending is completely ignoring the primary double / 3/4 based rhythm in the song. simplifying this rhythm into triples in 5.6 star extra is ridiculous and doesn't need to happen at all.
[monstrata]
00:27:349 - wats this really obvious triple that got ignored for? there's even a finish on the circle after it, emphasizing that circle with a triple would be nice.
00:37:997 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5) - differentiating the claps would be really nice since this pattern kinda completely ignores them...
00:46:700 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - dude i know you wanted the top diff on the set but these are completely out of sync with the rest of the map... it just makes no sense and you know it
00:57:071 (1) - how come these fairly clear offbeat vocals got ignored?
01:26:886 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - same thing about the ending as gero, really, i mean it was even 3/4 before it was qualified right? lol
also this is the climax, why's the spacing 1/3 that of the giant pp jumps in the middle?
[venix]
this diff has the exact same issue, there is 0 differentiation, and despite what natsu or gero or you may say this IS AN ISSUE because mapping the entire song as THE EXACT SAME despite the song being clearly different makes no sense at all. and you cant even make the good old argument that completely ignoring the song in favor of copy pasted symmetry patterns is fine because the diff isn't even based on symmetry.
for example: 00:25:219 (4,5,6,7) - normal base spacing pattern in very calm section
00:52:997 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - normal base spacing pattern in kiai, most intense part of the song
there should be a significant difference, and at the moment there is none at all
other stuff
00:13:552 (4,5,6,7) - this rhythm makes no sense, the double is significantly more obvious than anything on the white tick.
00:27:997 (2,3,4) - this slider doesn't really make sense, since there's a held vocal on the white tick. you even mapped it like that at 00:22:256 (3) - , 00:16:145 (2,3,4) - etc etc
00:34:849 (1) - completely ignoring the offbeat vocal here is kinda lame imo.
00:37:441 (5,1) - uhh... clap on slider end? circle on something inaudible in the song that isn't hitsounded? why not ctrl g on this rhythm, it fits a lot better.
00:48:830 - triple?
00:57:256 (2,3) - a slider here would be great to highlight that offbeat vocal!
01:02:441 (6) - this note is not following anything remotely noticeable in the song, it has no business being the absolute largest jump in the pattern.
01:04:849 (3,4) - having a vocal start on a slider end and then a giant jump to something rather unimportant doesn't work too well here; why not a 1/2slider + 1/1 slider rhythm instead?
01:06:330 (3,4,5) - strong vocal on slider end? this is the vocal peak in this phrase, putting it on a slider end is weird.
01:11:886 (1) - why is this rhythm simplified? the 1/2 melody is very clear here, and it echoes the beginning of the song which you also mapped with 1/2 sliders.
01:14:108 (6) - you could at least mute this slider end?
01:18:182 (2) - again, offbeat melody completely ignored.
01:26:978 - why is this triple skipped when you map all the other doubles as triples as well, like at 01:27:441 (5,6,7) - 01:27:997 (9,10,1) - and 01:28:552 (3,4,5) - ? i suggest mapping them all the same way.
[marvollo's extra]
well it just doesn't make sense to have every single diff in all caps except this one, lol. screws up your diff name structuring.
so as lasse said, this entire diff lacks differentiation. you can see parts like 00:15:589 - which are significantly calmer instrument and vocal wise, they have the same spacing as the kiai time; for example,
00:17:071 (3,4,5) - and 00:55:589 (3,4,5) - both of which are fairly normal patterns for the part. this should be addressed since making the entire map the same intensity spacing wise is not representing the song's highs and lows well.
aside from that, there's a lot of issues with the rhythm and spacing you used.
00:01:330 (4,5,6,7) - starting here, you could hear the lack of vocal on 00:01:515 (5) - as well as the fact that 00:01:700 (6,7) - are in a different vocal phrase, yet they are all stuck in the same pattern.
additionally, you are following vocals very clearly at 00:02:071 (1,2,3,4,5) - so doing something different the measure before doesn't make any sense.
00:08:182 (1,2) - some way to differentiate these 2 other than higher spacing with the same up and down movement (which does not provide a lot of contrast) would be nice
00:17:997 (4) - this slider starts on something nearly inaudible and ends on a clap, which is something that you previously put a large jump to (00:15:774 (2,3) - )
00:17:812 (3,4) - ctrl g on this rhythm makes a bit more sense in this case.
00:22:812 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - nothing in the song is repeating, so it doen't really make sense to use a repeating pattern here.
00:25:219 (7,8,1,2,3) - using a linear jump with a massive spacing increase here feels very uncomfortable to play, and it doesn't really make sense since neither of 00:25:774 (1,3) - are very strong notes and don't deserve to be emphasized so much.
00:30:034 (5,1,2,3) - again, fullscreen jumps to relatively unimportant sounds just don't make sense at all.
00:34:849 (3,4) - ctrl g for the clear offbeat vocal rhythm would fit a bit better here.
00:37:071 (3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5) - if you listen to the clap rhythm, there are several notes that should be deleted and/or spaced significantly less. for example: 00:37:812 (7) - has no real sound on it yet is a large jump, while 00:37:997 (1,2,3) - puts a lot of emphasis on 3 even though 1, 2 and 4 are the notes with claps on them.
00:39:849 (1) - this section is really nice, its completely different from everything else. this kind of differentiation being implemented everywhere would be amazing.
to be honest, i tried to understand the rhythm of the kiai, but i can't. it's just constant circles, and it doesn't really focus on anything in the song at all. for example:
00:56:145 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1) - you have 2 spaced bursts here, one is on a very loud drum roll, one is on something nearly inaudible, but they are the exact same pattern? this makes no sense, it's like you forced your map onto the song instead of the other way around.
01:01:515 (3,4) - there's a very clear offbeat vocal here, which has a clap hitsound on a slider tail as well, it would be better to ctrl g 01:01:515 (3,4) - in order to show that.
01:05:034 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1) - same issue here, this 2nd burst makes no sense with what the song is doing at all.
01:12:997 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - you put a 5 burst on a nearly inaudible sound, but skip the very clear triple in the melody here. it doesn't make sense to do this.
additionally, 01:13:552 (2,3) - this fullscreen spacing is completely unsupported in the song by melody, vocals, drums, whatever layer. you map similar places (drum claps) with very small spacing, like 01:20:404 (5) - or 01:15:219 (5,1,2,3) - so having the biggest possible vertical jumps on these ones seems incredibly out of place.
01:26:886 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - this entire ending is completely ignoring the primary double / 3/4 based rhythm in the song. simplifying this rhythm into triples in 5.6 star extra is ridiculous and doesn't need to happen at all.
[monstrata]
00:27:349 - wats this really obvious triple that got ignored for? there's even a finish on the circle after it, emphasizing that circle with a triple would be nice.
00:37:997 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5) - differentiating the claps would be really nice since this pattern kinda completely ignores them...
00:46:700 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - dude i know you wanted the top diff on the set but these are completely out of sync with the rest of the map... it just makes no sense and you know it
00:57:071 (1) - how come these fairly clear offbeat vocals got ignored?
01:26:886 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - same thing about the ending as gero, really, i mean it was even 3/4 before it was qualified right? lol
also this is the climax, why's the spacing 1/3 that of the giant pp jumps in the middle?
[venix]
this diff has the exact same issue, there is 0 differentiation, and despite what natsu or gero or you may say this IS AN ISSUE because mapping the entire song as THE EXACT SAME despite the song being clearly different makes no sense at all. and you cant even make the good old argument that completely ignoring the song in favor of copy pasted symmetry patterns is fine because the diff isn't even based on symmetry.
for example: 00:25:219 (4,5,6,7) - normal base spacing pattern in very calm section
00:52:997 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - normal base spacing pattern in kiai, most intense part of the song
there should be a significant difference, and at the moment there is none at all
other stuff
00:13:552 (4,5,6,7) - this rhythm makes no sense, the double is significantly more obvious than anything on the white tick.
00:27:997 (2,3,4) - this slider doesn't really make sense, since there's a held vocal on the white tick. you even mapped it like that at 00:22:256 (3) - , 00:16:145 (2,3,4) - etc etc
00:34:849 (1) - completely ignoring the offbeat vocal here is kinda lame imo.
00:37:441 (5,1) - uhh... clap on slider end? circle on something inaudible in the song that isn't hitsounded? why not ctrl g on this rhythm, it fits a lot better.
00:48:830 - triple?
00:57:256 (2,3) - a slider here would be great to highlight that offbeat vocal!
01:02:441 (6) - this note is not following anything remotely noticeable in the song, it has no business being the absolute largest jump in the pattern.
01:04:849 (3,4) - having a vocal start on a slider end and then a giant jump to something rather unimportant doesn't work too well here; why not a 1/2slider + 1/1 slider rhythm instead?
01:06:330 (3,4,5) - strong vocal on slider end? this is the vocal peak in this phrase, putting it on a slider end is weird.
01:11:886 (1) - why is this rhythm simplified? the 1/2 melody is very clear here, and it echoes the beginning of the song which you also mapped with 1/2 sliders.
01:14:108 (6) - you could at least mute this slider end?
01:18:182 (2) - again, offbeat melody completely ignored.
01:26:978 - why is this triple skipped when you map all the other doubles as triples as well, like at 01:27:441 (5,6,7) - 01:27:997 (9,10,1) - and 01:28:552 (3,4,5) - ? i suggest mapping them all the same way.
[marvollo's extra]
well it just doesn't make sense to have every single diff in all caps except this one, lol. screws up your diff name structuring.
anyway, gonna wait for your full redwall before doing more, but i hope you attempt to improve this instead. i'm happy to help, i should be fine to mod now since the most of my treatment is over.
i wonder why you guys keep mentioning that lasse is trying to destroy the map concept when he already stated he's not against the map being symmetrical?Lasse wrote:
I'm not against symmetry focused mapping in general, but the way you executed it
as far i can tell, he only mentioned things such as poor differentiation, lack of contrast etc. that doesn't imply that you should be changing your symmetry style mapping in any case.
now, for the top difficulty, i won't bother you writing an essay since i agree on most of things lasse already said. the only thing i wanted to mention is that your logic of "the intention was for it to have jumps through the whole difficulty" is fine as long as it makes sense with the music, you can certainly use less sliders if you want to do so, but you have to take into account that it should be representing the music.
so why isn't this a good way to represent the music?, you might ask. well, the problem here is basically spacing and density. there's currently no differentiation between chorus/verse. even though the rhythms/spacing choices may feel accurate on their own, they don't make sense when putting them together within a map context, mainly because the music pace is completely different.
so now what can be done to fix the issue? the most common way to fix this would be to use sliders for the calmer part, though as you already stated, the map is focused on avoiding these. so another possible option would be decreasing rhythm density/spacing. you can surely do this without messing up your symmetry based patterning.
I also disagree with Lasse's post and agree with Natsu instead.
Let's be honest, nowadays maps are all the same, random jumps in every part of the song without caring about the intensity, you are being picky on this one only because Gero is mapping it with symmetry so maybe it's more noticeable for you, but it doesn't mean that it's any different from the other maps.
Even though you might be right that he's not focusing the song intensity enough, the map is still fine to play.
For the record, when this was unranked Gero asked me to testplay it and I made him fix quite a few jumps that were exaggerated and over the place, after the fixes I tried playing it again and it felt fine to me.
Just stating my opinion, I guess.
Let's be honest, nowadays maps are all the same, random jumps in every part of the song without caring about the intensity, you are being picky on this one only because Gero is mapping it with symmetry so maybe it's more noticeable for you, but it doesn't mean that it's any different from the other maps.
Even though you might be right that he's not focusing the song intensity enough, the map is still fine to play.
For the record, when this was unranked Gero asked me to testplay it and I made him fix quite a few jumps that were exaggerated and over the place, after the fixes I tried playing it again and it felt fine to me.
Just stating my opinion, I guess.
i don't think all maps do the same, at least not to this degree but anyway this is a fallacy, you're appealing to common practice. just because everyone does it doesn't mean this specific case is acceptable.Andrea wrote:
Let's be honest, nowadays maps are all the same, random jumps in every part of the song without caring about the intensity, you are being picky on this one only because Gero is mapping it with symmetry so maybe it's more noticeable for you, but it doesn't mean that it's any different from the other maps.
i'm glad that you realize that the map doesn't accurately represent the song intensity but pointing out that the map plays fine is irrelevant. i think i never said the map plays bad? that has nothing to do with the argumentAndrea wrote:
Even though you might be right that he's not focusing the song intensity enough, the map is still fine to play.
i should also remember you guys that representing the song intensity is something important, in fact it's stated in the ranking criteria. points like this shouldn't be ignored
was playing this while its qualified, just wondering, why did you map this 00:56:145 (1,2,3,4,5) - and 00:56:700 (1,2,3,4,1) - that literally in the same way, when sounds on the second one are much weaker than the ones on the first one? u could probably do smth like this https://puu.sh/xisRv/bb1a30fb41.png to keep your symmetry concept or even stack the second stream because rn it makes zero sense at least for me
same goes for 01:05:034 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1) -
just my 2c tho, good luck
edit oh, seems like nao has already pointed that
same goes for 01:05:034 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1) -
just my 2c tho, good luck
edit oh, seems like nao has already pointed that
Maybe we misinterpreted because of the long mod u did, but ye, you usually do different things which are cool.Lasse wrote:
can you stop making it sound like I'm trying to kill "different" maps when I'm probably the t2 nominating most of them, thanks
keep the baseless accusations out of this
Sorry to say this, but doing a full mod like this won't help at all imo. You just waste your own time, and the mappers time, which is... aaa x.x time is goldNaotoshi wrote:
anyway, gonna wait for your full redwall before doing more, but i hope you attempt to improve this instead. i'm happy to help, i should be fine to mod now since the most of my treatment is over.
What Kagetsu did is just more accurate, by just explaining the overall situation in just a few paragraphs.
Anyway, just a few things i'd like to mention about the top diff
00:27:256 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - esto está genial, pero siento que se nota de sobremanera la simetría con lo que viene después. No se nota tanto en la primera parte (00:15:589 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) -) donde utilizas ángulos más abierto, aparte de usar uno que otro sliders. Métele un slider a esa sección, quedaría bien.
Encuentro que el kiai está repleto de notas individuales, por lo que podrías tratar de diferenciar las secciones que hay en esta y darle una especie de refresh al gameplay, las cuales son 00:51:145 - y 00:57:071 -. Quizás hacer 00:57:997 - de estos un slider?
00:56:700 (1,2,3,4,1) - esta simetría con respecto al otro stream se siente algo forzado? La sugerencia que dio Komore más arriba la encuentro genial, podrías hacerlo algo parecido a eso, sino lo mismo xD
01:02:441 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - más espaciado para enfatizar la 2da sección del kiai?
01:11:145 (2,3) - podrías hacer ctrl+g en estos para enfatizar 01:11:145 - y al mismo tiempo mantener la simetría.
con respecto a los jumps y las cosas que dicen los demás;
00:15:774 (2,3,1) - personalmente encuentro que este tipo de variación hace que el gameplay sea entretenido. Acá ya nadie nota mucho que digamos esos cambios en el DS. Quizás lo que si fuese un "problema" es que se parece un poco a los jumps del kiai, por lo que la gente reclama que no hay diferenciación. Qué tal en reducirlos en un x0,8 aprox?
00:22:626 (8,1) - este jump si se nota un poquito más, considera reducirlo
00:27:812 (5,1) - 00:29:108 (4,5) - similar a lo anterior, podrías jugar con la simetría de manera que no uses espacio que quede tan lejos :d
01:13:552 (2,3,4,5) - this is indeed way too much xd
01:22:256 (4,5,6,7) - podrías pasar la intensidad de los jumps anteriores a estos? xD
creo que eso sería :3
Suerte con el resto Gero, esperemos que los demás de verdad quieran ayudar, y no sea por otra cosa xD o/
Well, I didn't mean Lasse was killing old/symmetric mapping style as u guys are saying ;w; I just agreed with what Natsu said, about modern mapping aspects slowly killing different/symmetric/old ones. I still think that's true, tho :v
i don't know if this was ever mentioned, but look at the file size of some of your background images
800kb ~ 1mb is a bit too much for 1366x768 .jpg images IMO
if you use those you will save almost 2mb file size
https://puu.sh/xjJAR/b568f57cdb.jpg
https://puu.sh/xjJAM/c3aa05cdb6.jpg
https://puu.sh/xjJB3/9f4cc847e4.jpg
800kb ~ 1mb is a bit too much for 1366x768 .jpg images IMO
if you use those you will save almost 2mb file size
https://puu.sh/xjJAR/b568f57cdb.jpg
https://puu.sh/xjJAM/c3aa05cdb6.jpg
https://puu.sh/xjJB3/9f4cc847e4.jpg
Useless tbh, also the quality of pics might become lower what isn't really good.
nope, i didn't see any difference besides the file size.
nossa amiga amei seus mapas de 2010 muito bompimpG wrote:
nope, i didn't see any difference besides the file size.
It may look fine on your screen but players with better screens might notice that difference
the ranking criteria has a lot of stuff supporting fps gain and smaller file size over quality.
even if what you said was actually true, the mapset still have the other 18 backgrounds with lower quality...
even if what you said was actually true, the mapset still have the other 18 backgrounds with lower quality...
não sou mulher. na verdade todos meus maps são de 2012 em diante, mas fico feliz que gostouMkGuh wrote:
nossa amiga amei seus mapas de 2010 muito bom
just wait for gero to reply 