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chano & 40mP - Natsukoi Hanabi

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DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
No blanket/aesthetic mods please. I will take a look at whatever is not connected to aesthetics, since it's a subjective matter, thanks.

@VINXIS, I changed some parts for that whole section, mainly about rhythm. It should be better now.
Feb
1,027 posts
Joined June 2014
Feb
its not a subjective matter if the map looks really gross (not applying necessarily to your map).
hyouri
390 posts
Joined June 2012
hyouri

Xexxar wrote:

All in all this is obviously the toxic pp mapping that I think players and mappers are most against, blatantly being ignorant of the song for the purpose of more 1----2 pp jumps. Please at least try to map to the song while pp mapping, thanks.
this coming from the trash pp mapper himself is beyond ironic

change this on Insane, has weird feel from previous one 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5)
MaridiuS
878 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS

Riven wrote:

No blanket/aesthetic mods please. I will take a look at whatever is not connected to aesthetics, since it's a subjective matter, thanks.

@VINXIS, I changed some parts for that whole section, mainly about rhythm. It should be better now.
Wow, it's not really subjective if its inconsistent with the maps structure tbh. I might as well as go and give no shit about aesthetics and say its subjective as an counterargument related to any structure/aesthetic criticism. w/e, also this mod included some, but rarely, emphasis issues and such, and n a s y a should imo really take a look at the mod. I'll post my other mod after naotoshi does I guess.
defiance
503 posts
Joined July 2015
defiance

hyouri wrote:

Xexxar wrote:

All in all this is obviously the toxic pp mapping that I think players and mappers are most against, blatantly being ignorant of the song for the purpose of more 1----2 pp jumps. Please at least try to map to the song while pp mapping, thanks.
this coming from the trash pp mapper himself is beyond ironic

change this on Insane, has weird feel from previous one 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5)
The practice of PP mapping is to deliberately not follow the song in order to give it more reward (aka this map.) While (some) Xexxar maps do give a lot of PP, he does at least follow the song..
I Must Decrease
908 posts
Joined June 2013
I Must Decrease

Riven wrote:

[Spark of Light]
  1. 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - the main melody changes here to 1/2 rhythm however nothing in your map reflects this change. Because you're mapping 1--2 jumps to the drumbeat, this sort of seems like an oversight as prioritizing calm drums like this when there is clearly more important sounds going off
  2. 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - also you should probably map these as sliders considering that you want to highlight the change in rhythm caused by 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - because then 00:20:094 (1,1,1,1) - is mapped to snares 00:20:283 (2,2,2,2) - and these are mapped to the melody
  3. 00:21:518 - have you thought about making this a triplet, to better reflect the song. I have already answered to all 3 points you made above, in Feb's mod, please refer to that if you're interested in my reply.

    Like I said, what I am doing here is consistently following the rhythm of the drums, (literally they play the same rhythm for 5 seconds) and since there is no variation to them, there will be no variation to the jumps either, hence why they seem like stagnant 1-2s. To account for that, since the drums on (1)s are a bit more intense, when you are coming from (2), they always have higher distance spacing to compensate for that. This is how I interpreted the song the first time I heard it, it's not something I did to deliberately abuse pp. While it's true that in fact the nature of the jumps do that to a certain degree, it also goes without saying that it's the song that what allows for those jumps. I wouldn't randomly place 1-2 jumps where they don't fit. And for me they truly do seem like they fit. Some people have agreed with me on the intensity of the drums while others say that I should just map sliders. I personally think that it depends from person to person, and there is no 'right way' to map it.
Are you unable / unwilling to come to an agreement with us regarding this? There are many experienced mappers and players that are wholesomely trying to explain to you why your patterns may not be the best interpretation possible here. Your goal is to capture the song yet you ignore the main melody and map to bland drums? Every song has these and they're not what makes this part special or the main instrument at play here. You could also lower the spacing on all red tick jumps to better reflect the fact that the white beat is stronger than the red tick beat in most cases.

Please consider these changes as I'm only trying to help you better capture what the song is trying to really highlight here. There are clearly many people who consider your interpretation as wrong besides me.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Well, I gotta agree with Xexxar, as far as I have FC on all mapsets from this song, actual interpretation and placement of 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - and so on is just wrong.

I can try to mod this map (and will not avoid this extremely repetitive pattern-less 1-2) unless Riven consider players mods as worthless then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, will let it go without comment since it is not worth it.

This is how I interpreted the song the first time I heard it, it's not something I did to deliberately abuse pp. While it's true that in fact the nature of the jumps do that to a certain degree, it also goes without saying that it's the song that what allows for those jumps. I wouldn't randomly place 1-2 jumps where they don't fit. And for me they truly do seem like they fit. Some people have agreed with me on the intensity of the drums while others say that I should just map sliders. I personally think that it depends from person to person, and there is no 'right way' to map it.
Isn't it better to go for mutual agreement towards controversial part and changing it? It is true that there are people who will love this map because it gives enormous amount of pp for how it is mapped but there are also people (mappers too with all respect) who doesn't want more typical "pp influencing maps". As this may fit the drums, going for front line instruments (piano, synthesizer) could only benefit the map in that case.

Riven wrote:

Made a quite few changes to the 1-2 jump sections by adding sliders and significantly reducing the spacing, but this is as far as can go and do for my part for us to come to a mutual agreement.
For me it is fine like now. GL in ranking it, gib some pepe so I can stay on 20k forever 8-)
Last edited by -Makishima S- , edited 3 times in total.
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
Made a quite few changes to the 1-2 jump sections by adding sliders and significantly reducing the spacing, but this is as far as can go and do for my part for us to come to a mutual agreement.
7ambda
2,560 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda

Riven wrote:

Made a quite few changes to the 1-2 jump sections by adding sliders and significantly reducing the spacing, but this is as far as can go and do for my part for us to come to a mutual agreement.
👍
MaridiuS
878 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS
Okay, adding up a bit more to the discussion.

01:30:158 (1,2,3,4,5) - Out of all these 5 notes, the only one that doesn't feel equal volume to the others is 01:30:158 - this. The rest sound like they have the same exact volume and that is why I decided to space them equally, and as you can see, you come into this
In insane difficulty, I noticed that these jumps 01:30:160 (1,2,3,4,5) - are a buildup, therefore you kinda dug your own grave, by saying they sound about equal, you're basically forcing a different interpretation on this mapset in order to make simpler, but more spaced jumps.
Also there's this inconsistency issue, with those being a buildup in insane, the previous similar sounding are star shaped without buildup: in insane: 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5) -
Also that star pattern also applies to 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5) - basically, if there's a change in music, so should the map complement that. This way this gets a buildup, which will be an unique asset to the map, differentiating it from other stuff, when it truly deserves that as the drums volume are building up.

I'm will insist and point out this, which xexxar in his previous mod did. This is the climax of the map, yes this jump right here. 01:29:780 (4) - mathematically it is 3.62x distanced from the previous note, while, this, is 01:29:400 (2) - 4.55x and its clearly visible, and felt from in gameplay. You should need to readjust the pattern a bit in order to give the note I linked the proper emphasis. I think most people can agree on this.

01:27:312 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - adding a bit more to the discussion of these jumps. We previous talked about buildup not fitting here, and your argument was vocals getting more intense. That's a bit too farfetched, because the vocals in these jumps have variable rhythm and intensity. As for rhythm here we can hear them on 01:27:881 (2,3,4,1) - being on every 1/2 note, and 01:28:451 (1) - here it starts a long vocal, which doesn't affect the buildup in any way. The drums aren't getting louder, nor there is a pitch in the background. I find this to be a interpretation. To fix this if you agree, but I think we will further discuss, is to place these jumps 01:27:312 (2,3,1,2,3,4) - to have spacing like 01:27:691 (1,2) - . Alternatively you could also give emphasis to the 1/2 sounding vocals, as they're kinda the most noticable and intense, they're blended in and ignored kinda in this state. 01:28:451 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - for this jumps I suggest giving them all 01:28:831 (3,4) - this spacing. And of course giving the biggest emphasis to 01:29:780 (4) - , could go as far as 4.7x for this jump imo.

Basically, even after applying this, star rating will probably not be affected that much, but the map could be more fun and follow the song better IMO xd

edited in more stuff:
00:45:539 (4) - isn't this overemphasized, I don't see a reason to give this the biggest spacing, I suggest Ctrl+G plays well still, and will fit more.
01:07:944 (5) - I believe this should 2 circle to properly follow the vocals, that also happen on the red tick.
01:09:843 (5,1) - kinda (1) is given 0 emphasis when its a downbeat.
01:20:666 (1,2) - you suddenly started giving really noticeably majorly decreased spacing to the circle after slider, even if it contains vocals. 01:21:425 (1,2) - while here, this completely unimportant note has bigger spacing than this semi-intense vocal one: 01:21:046 (2) -
01:24:084 (2) - this other than having a vocal it also has this guitar sound on it, and possible kick, but I'm unsure. It still needs more spacing, I don't understand why did you give 0 spacing to those notes in this section.
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
MaridiuS
Okay, adding up a bit more to the discussion.

01:30:158 (1,2,3,4,5) - Out of all these 5 notes, the only one that doesn't feel equal volume to the others is 01:30:158 - this. The rest sound like they have the same exact volume and that is why I decided to space them equally, and as you can see, you come into this
In insane difficulty, I noticed that these jumps 01:30:160 (1,2,3,4,5) - are a buildup, therefore you kinda dug your own grave, by saying they sound about equal, you're basically forcing a different interpretation on this mapset in order to make simpler, but more spaced jumps. I still stand by my point and hear them as equal sounds, so don't tell me I dug my own grave, and don't go making assumptions that I used that spacing on Spark of Light just to make 'simpler and more spaced jumps'. The spacing on Insane has been adjusted accordingly.

Also there's this inconsistency issue, with those being a buildup in insane, the previous similar sounding are star shaped without buildup: in insane: 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5) -
Also that star pattern also applies to 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5) - basically, if there's a change in music, so should the map complement that. This way this gets a buildup, which will be an unique asset to the map, differentiating it from other stuff, when it truly deserves that as the drums volume are building up.

I'm will insist and point out this, which xexxar in his previous mod did. This is the climax of the map, yes this jump right here. Who says that?
You?

01:29:780 (4) - mathematically it is 3.62x distanced from the previous note, while, this, is 01:29:400 (2) - 4.55x and its clearly visible, and felt from in gameplay. You should need to readjust the pattern a bit in order to give the note I linked the proper emphasis. I think most people can agree on this. Maths and distance spacing isn't the only thing that matters in mapping to emphasize on something correctly. I have already said this before, but apparently you haven't read my previous replies to other mods. The change of angle is what makes up the 'lesser spacing'.

01:27:312 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - adding a bit more to the discussion of these jumps. We previous talked about buildup not fitting here, and your argument was vocals getting more intense. That's a bit too farfetched, because the vocals in these jumps have variable rhythm and intensity. As for rhythm here we can hear them on 01:27:881 (2,3,4,1) - being on every 1/2 note, and 01:28:451 (1) - here it starts a long vocal, which doesn't affect the buildup in any way. Just because there aren't vocals on every 1/2 beat it doesn't mean that it's not getting more intense. Similar to 01:17:628 - this, where there are no vocals on every 1/2 beat, you can clearly tell it's the climax of the first kiai. It's the continuous drawn out vocal that makes it more and more intense. I have ALREADY reduced the spacing of those jumps, and I really hope that that you are looking at the latest pending version. The drums aren't getting louder, nor there is a pitch in the background. I find this to be a interpretation. To fix this if you agree, but I think we will further discuss, is to place these jumps 01:27:312 (2,3,1,2,3,4) - to have spacing like 01:27:691 (1,2) - . Alternatively you could also give emphasis to the 1/2 sounding vocals, as they're kinda the most noticable and intense, they're blended in and ignored kinda in this state. 01:28:451 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - for this jumps I suggest giving them all 01:28:831 (3,4) - this spacing. And of course giving the biggest emphasis to 01:29:780 (4) - , could go as far as 4.7x for this jump imo. Disregarding this whole explaining of what spacing my jumps should have, as I gave you my reasoning above.

Basically, even after applying this, star rating will probably not be affected that much, but the map could be more fun and follow the song better IMO xd

edited in more stuff:
00:45:539 (4) - isn't this overemphasized, I don't see a reason to give this the biggest spacing, I suggest Ctrl+G plays well still, and will fit more. No one follows this slider to the end, think of it as 3/4 or a bit less of it's current length, so no I don't think it's too much. [/color]
01:07:944 (5) - I believe this should 2 circle to properly follow the vocals, that also happen on the red tick. No.
01:09:843 (5,1) - kinda (1) is given 0 emphasis when its a downbeat.
01:20:666 (1,2) - you suddenly started giving really noticeably majorly decreased spacing to the circle after slider, even if it contains vocals. 01:21:425 (1,2) - while here, this completely unimportant note has bigger spacing than this semi-intense vocal one: 01:21:046 (2) -
01:24:084 (2) - this other than having a vocal it also has this guitar sound on it, and possible kick, but I'm unsure. It still needs more spacing, I don't understand why did you give 0 spacing to those notes in this section. 01:24:274 - This strong ass white beat is what I want to focus here, not the almost inaudible kick on the red tick.
MaridiuS
878 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS

Riven wrote:

MaridiuS
I'm will insist and point out this, which xexxar in his previous mod did. This is the climax of the map, yes this jump right here. Who says that?
You? It has the strongest guitar hit, finish, and vocals all in one note, so yea, nothing can compare to that

01:29:780 (4) - mathematically it is 3.62x distanced from the previous note, while, this, is 01:29:400 (2) - 4.55x and its clearly visible, and felt from in gameplay. You should need to readjust the pattern a bit in order to give the note I linked the proper emphasis. I think most people can agree on this. Maths and distance spacing isn't the only thing that matters in mapping to emphasize on something correctly. I have already said this before, but apparently you haven't read my previous replies to other mods. The change of angle is what makes up the 'lesser spacing'. change of angle is a valid argument, but you see, even if it changes, it doesn't add much to the difficulty because it changes in a comfortable way out of the previous pattern. If you for example ctrl+g the slider which I pointed out, it will be more difficult to compensate for its lower spacing.


01:24:084 (2) - this other than having a vocal it also has this guitar sound on it, and possible kick, but I'm unsure. It still needs more spacing, I don't understand why did you give 0 spacing to those notes in this section. 01:24:274 - This strong ass white beat is what I want to focus here, not the almost inaudible kick on the red tick. its placing after a slider is still inconsistent with the section tbh, it's the only circle located right after slider end in the kiai sections
Nao Tomori
Nomination Assessment Team
3,089 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
well it's much more acceptable now. anyway i said i'd mod so here we go
[spark of light]
00:11:552 (3) - this feels like it would be better as a 1/2 slider + circle rhythm to switch off the strings onto the drums

00:21:046 (2,3,1) - this felt a bit weird cuz you're generally putting jumps on the strings. wouldnt a rhythm like http://puu.sh/x442q/b89cc99552.jpg fit a bit better?

00:30:160 (1,2) - this is really minor but not having these stacked on the previous 2 notes looked weird af to me lol

00:37:375 (3,4) -

01:17:818 (1,2,3) - this is following a different instrument from 01:17:248 (3,4,5) - but it's in the exact same cursor movement, which is a clockwise circle. making it a different cursor movement would be better to differentiate it from the previous pattern, since it's a different instrument

01:26:172 - i know you already nerfed the pp part but the rhythm here seems a bit weird. 01:25:413 (1,2) - are following the violin chord things, 01:26:172 (1,2,3,4) - break out of that presumably because of vocals, but then 01:26:932 (1) - follows another strong piano chord? thing and then it just devolves into 1-2 spam following the drums and ignoring everything else. there are a bunch of more intricate and interesting things like piano chords at 01:27:501 - 01:28:071 - 01:28:451 (1) - etc or just actual vocal emphasis. if you want to ignore all that for 1-2 jumps then i'd suggest at least differentiating 01:27:312 (2,3,1) - and 01:27:881 (2,3,4) - since the vocals are very clearly different.

01:29:400 (2,3,4) - same here. different direction motion would be cool since atm it's just another back adn forth motion even though the vocals changed.

side note: i feel like just putting a spinner over the end is kinda lame cuz it's still perfectly mappable and stuff and there's a more obvious fadeout to use for an ending spinner

[nasya]
00:14:780 (4,5) - these are weird cuz you followed the piano eaarlier but here its on slider ends

[insane]
00:06:046 - feels like you could at least put a circle here lol

01:05:476 (2,1) - this is kinda easy to misread as a 1/2 (since the precursor is just 1-2 back and forths with similar spacing) maybe stack 1 instead?

[hard]
00:52:944 (2,3) - ctrl g sounds kinda better to me? i guess.
00:53:514 (1,2) - personally to me this felt really weird. cuz the long slider is on a piano note, it makes sense to put a click at 00:54:084 - and 00:54:463 - as well. so shortening the previous slider and moving 00:54:274 (2) up a bit - basically

[smokeman]
this is all subjective aesthetic stuff. but a lot of your sliders totally don't look cohesive in the patterns. stuff like
00:10:793 (1,3) - could totally just be the same slider, 00:13:071 (2,4) - etc.

also i feel personally that the map would look a ton better if you made the follow points lead into the slider path. for example: http://puu.sh/x44UG/97a4f78082.jpg at 00:13:071 (2,3,4) -

00:19:337 (3) - extra clap on tail? it sounds kinda weird cuz it isnt clickable

00:29:210 (2) - i already stated my thoughts on these but basically i think having this big spacing is kinda weird for noobs cuz they wont move their cursor until the circle pops up and then itll be a sudden large jump. dunno

01:12:312 (6,7) - switching layers like this seems a bit weird too. why not just hold out on the vocal?

01:26:552 (4,1,2) - wouldnt ctrl g on this rhythm make more sense?

good luck!
Hikaen
60 posts
Joined September 2016
Hikaen
Polu wraio map 💯
Net0
1,238 posts
Joined October 2014
Net0
People questioning the 1-2 pattern made my day. So you started the meta, ranked your maps with 1-2 jump pattern and only now it's bad and it should be stopped? LMAO

If only something were to be mentioned in the old top diff is that this 01:26:170 (1) - / 01:26:930 (1) - /01:27:689 (1) - required the same emphasis in placement, similar to what was done here 01:28:449 (1) - and here 01:29:778 (2) - to make it kiai wise consistent. The current sliders 01:25:413 (1,2) -/01:26:932 (1) - and smaller jumps 01:26:172 (1,2,3,4) - are just excuse to lower the pp given by the map. It's really disgusting seeing a person who literally exploited this 1-2 patterning heavily abusing spacing for the sake of pp saying that the old "Kalokairina Pyrotechnimata" diff "didn't represent the song" when all the meta ranked in the past years does the exact same thing on consecutive 1/2 snare+kicks every time and some mappers even fully ignore other factors and still get ranked.

You guys just picked someone who's exploiting that even further and are not allowing him to rank his map.
Feb
1,027 posts
Joined June 2014
Feb

Net0 wrote:

People questioning the 1-2 pattern made my day. So you started the meta, ranked your maps with 1-2 jump pattern and only now it's bad and it should be stopped? LMAO

If only something were to be mentioned in the old top diff is that this 01:26:170 (1) - / 01:26:930 (1) - /01:27:689 (1) - required the same emphasis in placement, similar to what was done here 01:28:449 (1) - and here 01:29:778 (2) - to make it kiai wise consistent. The current sliders 01:25:413 (1,2) -/01:26:932 (1) - and smaller jumps 01:26:172 (1,2,3,4) - are just excuse to lower the pp given by the map. It's really disgusting seeing a person who literally exploited this 1-2 patterning heavily abusing spacing for the sake of pp saying that the old "Kalokairina Pyrotechnimata" diff "didn't represent the song" when all the meta ranked in the past years does the exact same thing on consecutive 1/2 snare+kicks every time and some mappers even fully ignore other factors and still get ranked.

You guys just picked someone who's exploiting that even further and are not allowing him to rank his map.
I'm sorry, what? Did you even read the mods from at least me or Xexxar? (didn't read maridius mod because its ass long lol)

Neither of us were talking about how bad 1-2 jumps are in general and neither of us were introducing them into the mapping scene since they already existed before we even started mapping. They just do not fit with THIS song in most of the map.

Nobody cares about other songs here, it's about this song not others.
What happened in the past has nothing to do with this map, when the ranking criteria was different and community involvement didn't even exist. Usually I don't even mod qualified sets, but the map got linked to me and I didn't agree with the maps concept, so I do have the right to veto it.
VINXIS
Featured Artist
3,161 posts
Joined April 2014
VINXIS
btw incest bg
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
Naotoshi
well it's much more acceptable now. anyway i said i'd mod so here we go
[notice][spark of light]
00:11:552 (3) - this feels like it would be better as a 1/2 slider + circle rhythm to switch off the strings onto the drums I'll keep this as it is for two reasons. First, the string sound ends here 00:11:932 - so it would be weird to end the slider on that white tick while the string still continues to play until 00:11:932 - here. And second is that I'd rather keep the rhythm simple at this section and make it more intense 00:12:501 - here and onwards. 00:10:793 (1) - You could say the same about this slider.

00:21:046 (2,3,1) - this felt a bit weird cuz you're generally putting jumps on the strings. wouldnt a rhythm like http://puu.sh/x442q/b89cc99552.jpg fit a bit better? Similar to this 00:19:906 - when I added the sliders it was on the red ticks, however it didn't sound or feel right to me how the sliderends where on those strong sounding white ticks, so in the end I decided to go do that instead. As for the note on the blue tick, in a previous mod I said that I don't hear anything on that beat, and that it is overmapped, and for such a controversial map where people are nitpicking everything, it could even be a reason for disqualification again.

00:30:160 (1,2) - this is really minor but not having these stacked on the previous 2 notes looked weird af to me lol

00:37:375 (3,4) - I can't make sense of this Lol

01:17:818 (1,2,3) - this is following a different instrument from 01:17:248 (3,4,5) - but it's in the exact same cursor movement, which is a clockwise circle. making it a different cursor movement would be better to differentiate it from the previous pattern, since it's a different instrument Personally, it doesn't feel like I've been following an instrument and then a completely different one appears which forces me to change the movement. But instead, think of it as an added instrument to the current previous section, so movement stays the same, but higher spacing.

01:26:172 - i know you already nerfed the pp part but the rhythm here seems a bit weird. 01:25:413 (1,2) - are following the violin chord things, 01:26:172 (1,2,3,4) - break out of that presumably because of vocals, but then 01:26:932 (1) - follows another strong piano chord? thing and then it just devolves into 1-2 spam following the drums and ignoring everything else. there are a bunch of more intricate and interesting things like piano chords at 01:27:501 - 01:28:071 - 01:28:451 (1) - etc or just actual vocal emphasis. From here 01:27:312 - till 01:29:590 - here, the only place where I would put a slider is 01:27:501 - this beat. But I don't want the sliderend to be on that strong sounding white beat so I decided to avoid that.

if you want to ignore all that for 1-2 jumps then i'd suggest at least differentiating 01:27:312 (2,3,1) - and 01:27:881 (2,3,4) - since the vocals are very clearly different. I want to signal the differences by changing jumps at every measure instead of changing their movement inside the measure. So basically 01:28:451 - this and 01:29:780 - this.

01:29:400 (2,3,4) - same here. different direction motion would be cool since atm it's just another back adn forth motion even though the vocals changed.

side note: i feel like just putting a spinner over the end is kinda lame cuz it's still perfectly mappable and stuff and there's a more obvious fadeout to use for an ending spinner

[insane]
00:06:046 - feels like you could at least put a circle here lol Personally I don't think it's a clear enough sound to support a circle, only a slider would fit there. But I'd rather keep the rhythm simpler than the last difficulty and just focus on the piano notes only instead.

01:05:476 (2,1) - this is kinda easy to misread as a 1/2 (since the precursor is just 1-2 back and forths with similar spacing) maybe stack 1 instead? Moved it up a bit more.

good luck!
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
People questioning the 1-2 pattern made my day. So you started the meta, ranked your maps with 1-2 jump pattern and only now it's bad and it should be stopped? LMAO
This jumps doesn't fit this song since drums are not an lead instrument which should be empathized first.
If every mapper choice to empathize drums, GREAT MAJORITY of songs can be mapped from 0:00 to X:XX 100% 1-2 jumps because "they fit drums".
Last edited by -Makishima S- , edited 2 times in total.
Xinnoh
Elite Mapper
1,950 posts
Joined April 2014
Xinnoh
seems good, bubbled because I have the right to bubble it
Smokeman
463 posts
Joined November 2012
Smokeman

MaridiuS wrote:

[smokeman]
Hm this map aesthetics don't look appealing to me, probably subjective, as I disagree on some choices, I have no idea how to improve this style. lol ok. You could mention those "choices" you dont agree with rather than just leave a pointless comment, no? But it's up to you to decide if its worth adressing (if you were going to suggest fixing blankets or some shit of that caliber you better gtfo tbh lul)
Firework aesthetics

Naotoshi wrote:

[smokeman]
this is all subjective aesthetic stuff. but a lot of your sliders totally don't look cohesive in the patterns. stuff like
00:10:793 (1,3) - could totally just be the same slider, 00:13:071 (2,4) - etc. Yeah, i didnt really think about doing them the same. In the example you provided I'd say they are quite different cause 00:10:793 - is still before the intense part 00:12:501 - . 00:10:793 (1) - This is less sharp of a curve than 00:11:552 (3) - cause of the difference in pitch. Although this is true to some extend for 00:13:071 (2,4) - , it is less noticeable so i went for the reverse so i can "unpack" the pattern of 00:10:793 (1,2,3,4) - into what I've done.

also i feel personally that the map would look a ton better if you made the follow points lead into the slider path. for example: http://puu.sh/x44UG/97a4f78082.jpg at 00:13:071 (2,3,4) - i deliberatly hide follow points so i can do this shit :> https://puu.sh/x5BAX/e98b1706b6.png . Even if i fixed it for 00:13:641 (3,4) - i would break it for 00:13:831 (4,5,6) - ._.

00:19:337 (3) - extra clap on tail? it sounds kinda weird cuz it isnt clickable ye, clap shoudl be on the head and whistle on the tail :thinking:

00:29:210 (2) - i already stated my thoughts on these but basically i think having this big spacing is kinda weird for noobs cuz they wont move their cursor until the circle pops up and then itll be a sudden large jump. dunno I though you were talking about shit like 00:53:514 (3,1) - . I think the example you posted it passable because of the follow-points. 00:27:691 (1) - This shouldnt be NC since its still part of 00:27:122 (3) - but i went with breaking that so i have the follow-points between 00:27:691 (1,2,3) - https://puu.sh/x5BMd/92fcaddeec.png (godbless the bg is this dark so its noticable, the one he used before this was even better suited cause low lvl players usually play with <100% dim). Fixed the others doe

01:12:312 (6,7) - switching layers like this seems a bit weird too. why not just hold out on the vocal? I see what you getting at. I guess i saw the piano as a chance to put some variety cause else i would have the same rythm ~4 times in a row .-.

01:26:552 (4,1,2) - wouldnt ctrl g on this rhythm make more sense? yes it does make sense, but having the claps on the tails for 2 1/2 sliders is super wierd somehow D: (which is prolly why i didnt do it in the first place).

i fixed some ugly stuff here and there

VINXIS wrote:

btw incest bg YES PLEASE FIX !!!"!1"!21!1"!!1!

map
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Title:Natsukoi Hanabi
TitleUnicode:夏恋花火
Artist:chano & 40mP
ArtistUnicode:シャノ & 40mP
Creator:Riven
Version:Smokeman's Advanced
Source:
Tags:Panoram a note sugar summer fireworks smokeman N_a_s_y_a nasya 40meterP Shano
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463,252,82944,2,0,P|430:192|456:106,1,143.000004364014,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
491,49,83514,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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211,68,84274,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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256,350,85793,2,0,L|330:336,1,71.5000021820069,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
410,320,86172,2,0,L|431:235,1,71.5000021820069,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
345,237,86552,2,0,L|324:152,1,71.5000021820069,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
258,227,86932,6,0,L|184:213,1,71.5000021820069,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
110,251,87312,1,8,0:0:0:0:
70,175,87501,2,0,L|-1:188,2,71.5000021820069,2|8|2,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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213,91,88451,38,0,P|260:97|291:92,1,71.5000021820069,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
350,148,88831,2,0,P|320:168|287:180,1,71.5000021820069,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
263,262,89210,2,0,P|298:262|333:253,1,71.5000021820069,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
417,273,89590,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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68,210,90539,2,0,P|102:199|137:197,1,71.5000021820069,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
190,129,90919,1,2,0:0:0:0:
267,166,91109,2,0,B|273:201|273:201|294:236,1,71.5000021820069,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
363,202,91489,1,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,91679,12,4,94527,0:0:0:0:

should be all mentions.
Tbh riven's map improoved a hell lot since the last time i checked lol.
- _ . -
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
So if there is nothing else to be said and we have come to a mutual agreement, then we can proceed with the ranking process.

If not, please do say it now so I can address it properly, and not having to do it when it's qualified.
HueFlakes
7 posts
Joined May 2014
HueFlakes

VINXIS wrote:

btw incest bg
I see nothing wrong here
Delis
1,433 posts
Joined May 2012
Delis
when I re-dl'd it the sr happened to decrease by around 0.3 wtf lol

why did you change the bg though
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
it's cuter
audinor
audinor
fukc
Last edited by audinor , edited 1 time in total.
I Must Decrease
908 posts
Joined June 2013
I Must Decrease
I still think the map is overdone but atleast the rhythm has improved a bit?

Disappointed that this is still the type of content that BN members are willing to push towards rank but /shrug what do you expect.
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
It's not very different from what you are mapping, so I'm also disappointed in what you have to say about it like you are some kind of superior. Don't judge BNs' decisions on what they want to push forward, because the same could be said about your own maps. Is that really the type of content they are willing to push towards rank?

And what kind of vague comment on the map is that? Have we come to a mutual agreement or not? It's like you're saying that you are kinda fine with it, but at the same time, at any point you could veto because you say it's overdone.
Kynan
497 posts
Joined September 2011
Kynan
lmfao xexxar please... Anyone but you has the right to say that.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
If players are so against "these types of maps" as you say, then why are there over 250k plays on CBCC? Checkmate my friend, better luck next round!
Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,913 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoratu
ahh please leave the shitposting to reddit

[spark of light]
  1. decimal od does mostly nothing, use 9?
  2. 00:06:046 (3) - i think sliderslide should be hitsounded in some way, maybe the sliderslide sample from https://osu.ppy.sh/b/147375 fits as a sliderwhistle here?
  3. 00:12:501 - that you drop whistles completely here onwards kinda ruins the mood in my opinion, the song features piano throughout so i think you should hitsound those more? you even feature them as your prominent layer of mapping
  4. 01:06:615 (1) - ever tried ending this in 01:06:900 - ? seems more accurate with the guitar
  5. 01:07:944 (5) - 01:10:982 (5,6) - should either be both sliders or both circles according to what you wanted to do
  6. 01:10:223 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - also this didnt really feel energetic at all given that even 01:07:185 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - as a whole is bigger
  7. 01:25:413 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - by making most of this just circles and only a few sliders you lose all the focus you've put on vocals being the core of this song before in any part, here's a list of opportunities you use to follow drums
    1. 01:27:881 (2,3,4) - 3 very distinct vocals
    2. 01:26:172 (1,2,3,4) - after this being all on vocals, doing 01:26:932 (1) - and ending it on avocal just seems odd
    3. 01:29:400 (2,3) - these two stand out exactly in no way compared to the rest 01:29:780 (4) - does that well by being a completely different type of object, but with this many circles going on it all seems the same.
    4. 01:30:160 (1,2,3,4,5) - this star pattern would stand out way more if the things preceeding it were different from it
    Most of these opportunities seem pretty cool to work with the song and with the key idea you've been following until now while also being the thing people mostly take issue in - i think a change to distinctly focusing features of the song that are not drums will be beneficial because the drums in this section are constant and present, the vocals are varied and otherwise the key feature of your map.
  8. 01:12:312 (3,4,5) - this somehow doesnt align with how you handle movement, mostly because the arrangement of 3 and 4 implies it's a direction that the player is expected to follow but out of line with what they expect to follow to, most other instances like 01:09:274 (3,4,5) - are clearly doing a back forth or other defined shapes while this is doing a "idunnoitlooksnice"
  9. 01:22:944 (4) - i think end should be circle for vocals
  10. 01:31:109 (1,2) - dunno how feasible but circles??
[smokeman]
  1. ar 6 fits your sv and density better, e.g. it makes 00:02:818 (5,1) - rhythm gaps actually readable in a straightforward manner - if you do this adjust other setting accordingly
  2. 00:09:463 (1,2,3) - as youre making a diff for mostly beginners doing placements like these should be avoided, the player at this level struggles with interpreting order for some reason so having an arragement of two circles that could be read either way and be "ok this makes sense" is prone to confuse people. This is mainly because you keep sliderend to circle distances in some cases visually constant so that order of objects isnt too clear sometimes
  3. 00:18:577 (1,2,3) - you start this off by following drums, so by 00:21:046 (4) - people expect you to follow drums
  4. 00:32:818 (3,4) - for stuff like these variations that dont exactly involve two 1/2 sliders for 1/1 sounds in succession could be cool, stuff like that includes rhythms like http://i.imgur.com/kBBFraG.png
  5. 00:39:274 (7) - if you decide against the above, at leat point this somewhere where upwards so that a dropoff to the next circle is created, i think with the movement you got going on that works better
  6. 00:47:438 (5,6) - seems forced, how about 1/1 slider
  7. 00:48:957 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - that this place is musically different in a lot of ways is not visible in any ways, mostly rhythm
  8. 01:10:793 (2,4) - looks oddly misplaced since you dont use stacking at all in this diff, so you're essentially introducing a new concept right before the end - you stack two things in the intro and that's it from there onwards (i think you should use stacks more because then you can have the player not move on every note)
  9. 01:30:160 (1,2,3,4) - even with your general "i dont like organized patternz lul" mindset this is just kind of a mess
Axon
284 posts
Joined July 2015
Axon

Xexxar wrote:

Disappointed that this is still the type of content that BN members are willing to push towards rank but /shrug what do you expect.
by that logic you should have no ranked maps.
Smokeman
463 posts
Joined November 2012
Smokeman

Okorin wrote:

ahh please leave the shitposting to reddit THIS IS A MEME FREE ZONE NOW >:(


[smokeman]
  1. ar 6 fits your sv and density better, e.g. it makes 00:02:818 (5,1) - rhythm gaps actually readable in a straightforward manner - if you do this adjust other setting accordingly yea
  2. 00:09:463 (1,2,3) - as youre making a diff for mostly beginners doing placements like these should be avoided, the player at this level struggles with interpreting order for some reason so having an arragement of two circles that could be read either way and be "ok this makes sense" is prone to confuse people. This is mainly because you keep sliderend to circle distances in some cases visually constant so that order of objects isnt too clear sometimes I knew it was wierd back when i mapped it. Good thing someone finally points it out
  3. 00:18:577 (1,2,3) - you start this off by following drums, so by 00:21:046 (4) - people expect you to follow drums Infact i only follow drums this intensly on these first 3 sliders. I proceed to follow the longer piano notes to make it less dense (so the last section of the song can stand out with tons of 1/2 sliders)
  4. 00:32:818 (3,4) - for stuff like these variations that dont exactly involve two 1/2 sliders for 1/1 sounds in succession could be cool, stuff like that includes rhythms like http://i.imgur.com/kBBFraG.png I do prefere it the way i have for 2 reasons. Even though the song features strong drums i wanted to follow the piano/vocal rythm more. This is the section that feaute my arguable cool firework aesthetic and i think 2 sliders like that (and later on aswell) make a beautiful firework pattern C:
  5. 00:39:274 (7) - if you decide against the above, at leat point this somewhere where upwards so that a dropoff to the next circle is created, i think with the movement you got going on that works better This is the same as 00:44:970 (6,7) - but it would make sense to make it point upwards moar. (can't point it up too much else it will resemble the patterns of the previous yellow combo too much and i wouldnt like that :c
  6. 00:47:438 (5,6) - seems forced, how about 1/1 slider I do see your concern but having too many 1/1 would break the uniqueness of 00:48:957 (1,2,3,4) - a bit. On the other hand some variety would be cool to have. Mb i'll ctrl+g the rythm
  7. 00:48:957 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - that this place is musically different in a lot of ways is not visible in any ways, mostly rhythm 00:48:957 (1,2) - the sharp 180° turn and the soft transition of 00:49:527 (2,3,4) - make up for it through object placement imo. I could do some different slidershapes but i wanted to try this different thing : S
  8. 01:10:793 (2,4) - looks oddly misplaced since you dont use stacking at all in this diff, so you're essentially introducing a new concept right before the end - you stack two things in the intro and that's it from there onwards (i think you should use stacks more because then you can have the player not move on every note) Even after spending >30 min trying to make it work w/o the stack i couldnt find a way to map it which would require a 80% remap. If this is a huge problem then i will keep trying tomorrow/next time i sit down for this
  9. 01:30:160 (1,2,3,4) - even with your general "i dont like organized patternz lul" mindset this is just kind of a mess i dont like organized patternz lul but i made this a bit better cause trash
box=
osu file format v14

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Countdown: 0
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StackLeniency: 0.2
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LetterboxInBreaks: 0
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Title:Natsukoi Hanabi
TitleUnicode:夏恋花火
Artist:chano & 40mP
ArtistUnicode:シャノ & 40mP
Creator:Riven
Version:Smokeman's Advanced
Source:
Tags:Panoram a note sugar summer fireworks smokeman N_a_s_y_a nasya 40meterP Shano
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221,335,64717,2,0,P|253:340|285:336,1,65,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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344,276,76299,6,0,P|394:244|426:161,1,143.000004364014,2|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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405,45,83704,2,0,P|336:61|280:14,1,143.000004364014,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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allein
Beatmap Nominator
821 posts
Joined March 2015
allein
rippu?
Nikakis
769 posts
Joined May 2014
Nikakis
i like trains
Will Stetson
Featured Artist
53 posts
Joined September 2014
Will Stetson

Nikakis wrote:

i like trains
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
Okoratu
ahh please leave the shitposting to reddit

[spark of light]
  1. decimal od does mostly nothing, use 9? hmm okay
  2. 00:06:046 (3) - i think sliderslide should be hitsounded in some way, maybe the sliderslide sample from https://osu.ppy.sh/b/147375 fits as a sliderwhistle here? done
  3. 00:12:501 - that you drop whistles completely here onwards kinda ruins the mood in my opinion, the song features piano throughout so i think you should hitsound those more? you even feature them as your prominent layer of mapping sure
  4. 01:06:615 (1) - ever tried ending this in 01:06:900 - ? seems more accurate with the guitar the reason why this extended is because it's a combination of the guitar string and her breath kinda, also it makes the kiai feel more explosive and the reason why i decided to keep it.
  5. 01:07:944 (5) - 01:10:982 (5,6) - should either be both sliders or both circles according to what you wanted to do remapped the kiais completely, also those beats are all sliders now
  6. 01:10:223 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - also this didnt really feel energetic at all given that even 01:07:185 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - as a whole is bigger it's more spaced now but kinda remapped
  7. 01:25:413 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - by making most of this just circles and only a few sliders you lose all the focus you've put on vocals being the core of this song before in any part, here's a list of opportunities you use to follow drums tried to follow more vocals with the addition of sliders and some more sliders instead of random circles
    1. 01:27:881 (2,3,4) - 3 very distinct vocals
    2. 01:26:172 (1,2,3,4) - after this being all on vocals, doing 01:26:932 (1) - and ending it on avocal just seems odd
    3. 01:29:400 (2,3) - these two stand out exactly in no way compared to the rest 01:29:780 (4) - does that well by being a completely different type of object, but with this many circles going on it all seems the same.
    4. 01:30:160 (1,2,3,4,5) - this star pattern would stand out way more if the things preceeding it were different from it
    Most of these opportunities seem pretty cool to work with the song and with the key idea you've been following until now while also being the thing people mostly take issue in - i think a change to distinctly focusing features of the song that are not drums will be beneficial because the drums in this section are constant and present, the vocals are varied and otherwise the key feature of your map.
  8. 01:12:312 (3,4,5) - this somehow doesnt align with how you handle movement, mostly because the arrangement of 3 and 4 implies it's a direction that the player is expected to follow but out of line with what they expect to follow to, most other instances like 01:09:274 (3,4,5) - are clearly doing a back forth or other defined shapes while this is doing a "idunnoitlooksnice" changed it
  9. 01:22:944 (4) - i think end should be circle for vocals remapped but should still be applied
  10. 01:31:109 (1,2) - dunno how feasible but circles?? okay then
Aistre
Beatmap Nominator
614 posts
Joined September 2014
Aistre
o!mG!
Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,913 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoratu
please hitsound the rhythms that you map in the normal as you mapped them just copying over hitsounding from the other diff isnt working
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
i see, some beats didn't even have hitsounds on them lol, should be better now

also changed the placement of the objects on top diff because i wasn't really happy with them, from 01:26:932 - here to 01:29:590 - here. rhythm remains unchanged

updated
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