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Alheak
910 posts
Joined November 2013
Alheak
helo

  1. 00:48:862 - any reason why you're skipping those? From what i understand you're following the bell-like sounds as well as the little synth beeps in the background, but there's clearly a small beep here, I'd suggest at least mapping a 1/2 slider instead.
    More importantly, this rhythm is unexpected as it skips a major downbeat, and the spacing you're using here is not really helping with reading that. You're suggesting to the player that you're using the distance/time equality rule aka DS for this section, but suddenly decide otherwise on 00:56:793 (5,6,1) - and such, for no discernable reason in my opinion since you have the same note at 00:56:104 - and 00:56:449 - which aren't emphasized and sometimes even end up on slider ends.
    All of this isn't that big of a deal, but would benefit a lot from being investigated, also I would suggest avoiding obtuse angles if you were to keep jumps like 00:56:793 (5,6,1) - . Obtuse angles create a sort of linear flow which is generally harder to read, play and anticipate, especially with this spacing configuration.
    Of course this applies for the whole section.
  2. 01:48:949 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - could blanket 01:50:069 (1) - better, would look great to have an evenly round shape here.
  3. 01:50:069 (1,2) - somehow it feels weird to play those, first one isn't really mapped to anything even if i get your intent, second is mapped to something which would be better represented by a slider. I'd either drop those, or put a spinner ending on 01:50:069 -
    01:52:828 (2,1) - there are no hints that helps the player notice this sudden change in rhythm, moreover, you're skipping quite an important beat on 01:53:000 - .
  4. 01:58:345 (2,1) - ^
  5. 01:53:690 (1,2,1,2) - all this linear flow is quite awkward to play
  6. 02:04:207 (1) - not sure the NC here is a wise decision here, first because it's on a red tick, second because it would rather indicate a change in rhythm (to 1/3 for ex) instead of a wider spacing, and lastly because it blends (1) with (3) color-wise, making the whole thing harder to read.
  7. 02:09:379 (2,1) - etc etc
  8. 02:13:518 (4,1,2) - awkward linear flow, plus (1,2) is more accentuated than (4,1) even though the strong beat is on (1)
  9. 02:15:414 (3,4,1) - ^
  10. 03:27:483 (1,2,1,2) - you're giving up this pattern really quickly, even though the song doesn't change much except in intensity. It would make more sense to continue this pattern instead of placing random circles 03:28:173 (1,2,3,4) - . This doesn't mean you have to give up the build-up, just raise the spacing, but keep the pairs.
  11. 03:38:518 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - More intensity, yet you're giving up on the stream jumps every 5 notes?
  12. 04:22:914 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - more personal, but those could use a bit more spacing, try stream jumps like this, works quite well thanks to the back-n-forth flow:
    SPOILER
  13. 04:33:690 (1,2,3,4,1) - ^
  14. There is an awful lot of badly used "linear" flow and weird spacing everywhere, and as a result the map plays quite awkwardly, and feels "slippery" because you have to constantly control your aim and be conscious of it (well, way more than usual). It's not really a question of being precise, but rather of constantly having to "reset" your momentum, and often in places you expect it the least. Especially in a wubs map, you'd rather focus on reading and letting your aim work for you, if that makes sense (though this part is mostly subjective).
    There are some example ^ earlier in the mod, a few more here: 02:16:449 (5,6,7,1) - 02:18:000 (5,6,7) - 01:52:828 (2,1) - 02:18:518 (1,1,2) - 02:27:828 (6,7,1) - etc
This last point is in my opinion quite important to the general playability of your map, but I agree that my explanation may be a bit lacking. Don't hesitate to catch me in game for precisions, though im not sure if i can develop my point more than this.

Good luck.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn
we talked a bit on irc about modding concepts. i applied a lot of the aesthetic or tinier changes, but most of it was declined due to how this map is intended to be mapped for fun, rather than for "super easy playability". There are mapping concepts here outside of what is considered standard and that's simply because how I've always chosen to represent music therein - the choices are internally consistent, and that's all that should really matter.

worthwhile mod tho thanks
Luel Roseline
1,034 posts
Joined February 2014
Luel Roseline
Small mod here.

[Notes]
00:15:931 (4,1) - blanket here. http://puu.sh/rgekT/cb45cdfd54.jpg
00:21:449 (4) - Move to 299, 52 http://puu.sh/rgesk/afd28f7860.jpg
00:28:000 (4) - Unsnapped circle (littlely)
00:56:621 (4) - Move to 105, 262 for good triangle.
00:56:793 (5) - 116, 185
Alheak
910 posts
Joined November 2013
Alheak
After having slept on it, there are some things we talked about on IRC I'd like to argue further.

I understand your point on conceptual mapping, on mapping for yourself instead of mapping for others, on the whole "what feels good vs what feels right" issue even if I don't entirely agree with it.
But what troubles me is that you said yourself that you don't even play anymore, and without questioning your experience of mapping, that sounds like what you're mapping doesn't fit anybody's expectations but yours, and that you yourself don't even play what you create.
It's possible that I may have misinterpreted this part, but then what is this "mapping for fun" you're talking about if you can't even enjoy what you create yourself?

I also think you're confusing the terms conceptual and technical, and while I respect your own interpretation of the song, there are some parts which I reported in my mod that play really awkwardly in random places, that don't fit the song and which don't seem voluntary since they're inconsistent throughout the map or the concerned section.
So even if I ignore the playability aspect of those patterns and how they feel to me, I am still left with some questionable and unjustified gameplay elements used at random places in your map, which should be a concerning issue.

I understand your take on mapping and its concepts, but it mostly sounds like a "I can never be wrong" approach to mapping, which is very dangerous not only in mapping but in every aspect of life as well.
I do not wish to make this a philosophical post, but sure, if you boil anything down to its simplest core, you're just left with "what seems right to me".
Nothing can be purely objective, especially in something as complex as mapping, but you must realize that there is a set of commonly accepted guidelines to mapping that you deliberately chose to ignore for your own selfish interests, ignoring with them a great majority of the community.
This selfishness is wrong because as stated earlier, you don't even seem to play what you create, and because by mapping (and especially ranking) you are providing for a community which should be your target audience. This is why mapping shouldn't not be about "what feels good vs what feels right", but rather an educated mix of those two concepts, and this is why modding is so important.
Modding can't fix concepts because they're personal preferences, but it can certainly take them into account, that much I agree with. But then what is "taken into account" worth if the whole other technical aspect of modding is ignored? Why do you think the community is constantly trying to understand and improve mapping, both in theory and practice, if we can just choose to ignore its technical aspect?

Mapping according to those guidelines does not mean you have to make your map "just like every other", easy to play, or "play naturally". It just means you should not ignore what all those years of mapping have taught us, that includes momentum, emphasis, flow, rhythm, aesthetics, etc.
You say you map "outside the norm". Sure okay, good for you, but modders are here to tell you when this choice doesn't work, and how it could work better. This doesn't mean you have to stick to the norm, but to consider their point and the fact that that maybe, the way you mapped things is flawed.
What do awkward linear flow and spacing add to the map? You said you wanted the player to concentrate more on reading, but ultimately how quick you are at reading those just depends on your skill, and those issues are more about feeling than reading anyway.

If you want to break the norm so badly, do it in a sensible way, and don't try to force it. The possibility for complex patterns in a map ultimately lies into the song itself.
As we have seen during those last years, wubs maps were at first very hard to read and people really struggled playing them for a long time, but they still played well if you could read them. Now they've pretty much become the norm, without losing one bit of their actual difficulty. We just got better.
Unfortunately, wubs songs have stayed mostly the same, and most ways of mapping them effectively have been tried already.
I'm not saying you shouldn't try to find some more, but I fear that what you have here just does not work.

That pretty much covers what I wanted to say, I may add some points if needed later.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn
The long and short of it is; this map has set out everything it wants to do - it's fun, challenging, and fits the song in ways that me and Fetish agree with, to an extent. We've made concessions to eachother in certain parts because we respect eachother's decisions and understand that playing-wise it's not all that impactful in a negative matter at all.

I've not seen a single playtester on this map ever call it anything but "pretty good". They either found it played normally, or it was a refreshing change that didn't smack them in the face. It was, and is, different without being difficult. I use extensive playtesting (and experience watching playtesters and how they play/react - seriously there's a ton of tells) as well as experience and knowledge to supplement (or replace) personal playtesting (which, objectively speaking, is what you said was necessary). There were a small number of players who struggled with some concepts (shout out to logic agent who still fails the perfectly overlapping slider bits) but invariably there wasn't any real commentary towards "the feel" of the map other than it being different, and their movements followed what I want them to be.

I fail to see why your disagreement renders your opinion of higher value than my own on my own map, especially when I've explained logically and reasonably as to what my ideals and concepts are. You're not exactly a stellar player yourself, so you've got to have some sort of experience and knowledge backing you - but it appears it's vastly inferior to mine.

People armchair editor too much nowadays. Back in my day (waves cane) I was an outright oddity because I always struggled to play my own maps and I wasn't ever really capable of playing this game well due to X or Y reason. But now, it seems like it's the norm that experienced mappers aren't necessarily that good at playing the game, much less modders.


And that leads to mappers needing to satisfy other mappers - it's a feedback loop where people jerk off over concepts that are theoretically relevant but are horrifically overblown and really don't have the impact they claim it does. I'm sickened by the amount of psuedo-science bullshit people are willing to throw around, and further irritated by how much impact they claim these concepts have on the player.


All a map needs to do is consistently follow the music's rhythm, with creative liberties applied for the mapper to use their own interpretation. Everything else is just gravy. "Rankability" is a standard that's always been peer-oriented (see: the east's tolerance for what west would consider complete crap) and is just as subjective in the end.



tl;dr you're overblowing the fuck out of some shitty concepts that only need to be considered up to a certain point, after that go nuts. This map isn't that special. It's not that great. It's a cool map. It doesn't need to be perfect in every single person's eyes. It never will be. And I don't care if it's not perfect in your eyes, or even if it's really any good at all. It's fine.
Ambient
579 posts
Joined August 2013
Ambient

Shiirn wrote:

I've not seen a single playtester on this map ever call it anything but "pretty good". They either found it played normally, or it was a refreshing change that didn't smack them in the face. It was, and is, different without being difficult. I use extensive playtesting (and experience watching playtesters and how they play/react - seriously there's a ton of tells) as well as experience and knowledge to supplement (or replace) personal playtesting (which, objectively speaking, is what you said was necessary). There were a small number of players who struggled with some concepts (shout out to logic agent who still fails the perfectly overlapping slider bits) but invariably there wasn't any real commentary towards "the feel" of the map other than it being different, and their movements followed what I want them to be.

Alheak wrote:

As we have seen during those last years, wubs maps were at first very hard to read and people really struggled playing them for a long time, but they still played well if you could read them. Now they've pretty much become the norm, without losing one bit of their actual difficulty. We just got better.
Unfortunately, wubs songs have stayed mostly the same, and most ways of mapping them effectively have been tried already.
I'm not saying you shouldn't try to find some more, but I fear that what you have here just does not work.
Literally every "wub" map is hard, this in particular, is hard. Look at any high SR wub map and there will be sections in it which are bloody hard. From a players stand-point, (since I couldn't mod this map at all) there are MANY sections which are HARD but emphasize the song/rhythm/beat well. And honestly it comes down to who mapped the song and their interpretation of the music made up of Circles, Sliders, and Spinners.

If you've played the map 10 times over it starts to fit together and you get a good "feel" of the rhythm. Like Shiirn said, he and Fetish have seen many people play it and they can deduct from that, (the players experience) changes to be needed. Honestly if you can play it, great! You'll have a better understanding of the song/map, if not? Oh well, i think experience in playing the map helps out a lot.

tl;dr It plays better the more you play it and that's what makes this map different.
Shiguma
476 posts
Joined May 2014
Shiguma
Played through it, felt like 04:41:276 (1,2,3,4) - should be curved
03:37:483 (1,2,3,4) - Felt like this should go something along the lines of this: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6148922 (maybe)
03:43:000 (1,2,3,4) - this was something that definitely felt off playing with that angle

I'd at least take a look at the first and third things I mentioned and maybe change them slightly to make it less awkward

Everything else plays pretty good tbh (imo of course)

no kd obviously
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn
rip bns
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
Hi, I'm rip

irc logs
00:02 Shiirn: bns h8 me
00:02 Shiirn: :(
00:02 Shiirn: nice lecture btw
00:02 MrSergio: I have a feeling it wasn't that great tho lol
00:03 Shiirn: mmm
00:03 MrSergio: and about BNs, idk
00:03 Shiirn: hitsounding is a complex thing
00:03 Shiirn: the super basics are, well, super basic
00:03 MrSergio: I do my part in #modreqs so I barely look anywhere else
00:03 Shiirn: but moving past that is tough to explain in a short, public lecture
00:03 MrSergio: heh
00:03 MrSergio: I alread explained that to my mentee before that lecture
00:03 MrSergio: and it was aroun 1h and a half
00:04 MrSergio: so rip
00:04 MrSergio: without all the theory and the knowledge about the editor is kinda hard to make it short too
00:05 MrSergio: drop me the map you need a check on, I might do it soon enough
00:05 Shiirn: it's still nirvana
00:05 Shiirn: :(
00:06 MrSergio: got it
00:20 MrSergio: ok, small stuff, and personal as usual
00:20 Shiirn: o?
00:20 Shiirn: OH YOU MEANT NOW
00:20 Shiirn: WOW
00:20 MrSergio: 01:26:276 (2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3) - using same spacing as 01:25:414 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - feels a bit strange, maybe reduce spacing between those triplets, since the song becomes quieter
00:20 Shiirn: im memeing atm give me a sec
00:20 *Shiirn is editing AiRI - DREAMxSCRAMBLE [Shiirn's Extra]
00:21 MrSergio: lmao
00:21 Shiirn: im down to lower the spacing of thos triples yeah
00:22 Shiirn: here hold on to this: 116|303
00:22 Shiirn: k
00:23 Shiirn: each triple in that line is 15% smaller
00:23 Shiirn: it has quite a nice effect
00:23 MrSergio: cool
00:24 MrSergio: 03:00:587 (3,4) - I just checked around 10 seconds ahead, but it looks like this one is the only one with such spacing
00:24 MrSergio: 03:03:345 (3,4) -
00:24 MrSergio: 03:06:104 (3,4) -
00:24 MrSergio: and such
00:24 Shiirn: ah you're right
00:24 Shiirn: it was more to stack under 2 but it is inconsistent
00:24 *Shiirn modifies
00:25 Shiirn: people are telling me those seconds are "weird" :( but they playsonice
00:26 MrSergio: 03:59:035 (2) - nice effect
00:26 MrSergio: I'd call it "fake SV change" lol
00:26 MrSergio: if it wasn't for the timeline I would have thought it is totally a SV, nice
00:26 Shiirn: that section is 1/6 specifically for the wuuuuubs
00:27 MrSergio: yeah
00:27 Shiirn: but they're short enough that 1/2 tapping won't cause 100s
00:27 Shiirn: 03:55:626 - starts here
00:28 MrSergio: 04:41:104 - damn, I'd die here, but it's objectively correct xD
00:28 Shiirn: yeah i mean
00:28 MrSergio: and it actually makes sense with the increasing emphasis of the song
00:28 Shiirn: fetish has said he's "okay with nerfing it but"
00:29 Shiirn: no bn has actually said
00:29 Shiirn: "nerf it and ill bubble"
00:29 Shiirn: so we've been sitting on it
00:29 MrSergio: well.. seeing the rest of the map, I feel like those jumps are easier than other parts
00:29 Shiirn: the 1/4 jumpstreams are easily the hardest part of the map, technically
00:29 MrSergio: and he didn't give you any options at all?
00:29 Shiirn: ?
00:29 MrSergio: I mean
00:30 MrSergio: "nerf them", but didn't he tell you "how"?
00:30 Shiirn: i mean i agree with fetish here, why change it for no reason when it's been shown to play fine by people capable of playing it
00:30 Shiirn: we'd probably change it to have slightly less jerking motions between the 4->1s
00:30 Shiirn: already it's pretty circular but the angles are rough
00:30 MrSergio: I'm pretty fine with the concept, but in general I hate playing these jump streams
00:31 MrSergio: objectively I agree with it, but a nerf could be indeed nice
00:31 Shiirn: mmm personally i think jump streams are artificial difficulty (shut up reanimate) but I can agree with the concept here
00:31 Shiirn: but like i said, BNs have either A) refused to look at the map at all or B) have more than just that stream that makes the map "too hard" for them to mod
00:31 Shiirn: like stjpa was uncomfortable with other parts as well
00:32 MrSergio: I guess I'll give it a second look then, but idk, I didn't notice it till now
00:32 Shiirn: if we had a BN actually say "i think a nerf is in order, i'm fine iconning afterwards" we'd do it
00:32 MrSergio: maybe I should sleep...
00:32 Shiirn: well i mean
00:33 Shiirn: BNs like stjpa and ezek and other...
00:33 Shiirn: "can't mod 6*"
00:33 MrSergio: 05:04:035 (1) - holy shit
00:33 Shiirn: ISN'T IT PRETTY
00:33 *MrSergio claps*
00:33 Shiirn: but yeah in my personal opinion
00:34 Shiirn: yeah the jump streams need some nerfin' as they're a very big diff spike
00:34 Shiirn: but me and fetish agreed to wait until a bn mentioned it
00:37 MrSergio: nerf just 04:40:931 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - and we're good to go imo
00:37 Shiirn: aire
00:37 Shiirn: lemme signal fetish
00:37 *Shiirn goes to get the floodlights and lingerie
00:38 MrSergio: lmao
00:38 MrSergio: well, in case you nerf that part you probably need to adjust spacing for the previous jumps a little too, idk
00:38 MrSergio: but anyway, I guess you know what you want in your map =3=
00:39 Shiirn: yeah we'll figure it out real fast
00:39 Shiirn: the previous notes shouldn't need too much fiddling
00:40 MrSergio: btw, [http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6288300 this] may be misleading
00:40 Shiirn: wha
00:40 MrSergio: I thought it was going to the left, but it went to the right
00:40 MrSergio: seeing the area of the slider follow circle, it could be fine anyway, but people will start drama as always
00:41 MrSergio: I'd rather avoid that =w=
00:41 Shiirn: i'm going to go to my old fallback handwaving excuse and say
00:41 MrSergio: lol
00:41 Shiirn: "it's so slow you'll do fine even with a seizure"
00:41 Shiirn: 'cuz really the only reason people make drama over that kind of stuff
00:41 Shiirn: are just picking a fight with me
00:42 MrSergio: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6288311 ?
00:42 Shiirn: or the mapper, usually
00:42 MrSergio: minor stuff that tells me a lot of stuff
00:42 Shiirn: mmm i'll ask 'ihm
00:42 MrSergio: I just moved the waypoint
00:42 Shiirn: yeah ik
00:46 Shiirn: changing the bend of that squishes the star and makes a weird amount of space between the tracks
00:46 Shiirn: and since "it's so slow it won't matter" we both agree it's not worth the movement smoothness
00:47 MrSergio: you really want to make me clean up eventual drama, huh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
00:47 Shiirn: bruh
00:47 Shiirn: i'll clean it up
00:47 MrSergio: let me know once you nerf those slider jumps
00:47 Shiirn: yeah he's working on it
00:49 MrSergio: what's Alheak's problem btw?
00:49 MrSergio: I stopped after 2 lines
00:49 Shiirn: to put it as simply as possible
00:50 Shiirn: i'm going to explain that in my experience with this game, as a mapper and modder, I noticed there are several "phases" most, if not all, mapper/modders go through
00:50 Shiirn: and he's through the young, early "I learned quite a lot and feel comfortable with what I know" stage, where he feels like he's "already learned everything"
00:50 Shiirn: it's the most common phase for most modders nowadays am
00:50 Shiirn: atm
00:50 Shiirn: Lots of knowledge, but narrow-minded
00:51 MrSergio: cool, I'll keep it in mind if I ever get one of his mods
00:51 Shiirn: it's the phase before they find "their niche", figuring out their favorite style of mapping
00:51 MrSergio: although I guess I can't make him trigger as much as you do
00:51 Shiirn: well the thing is he doesn't have ill will
00:52 MrSergio: well, considering the wall of text without caps nor back words, I guess yeah
00:52 Shiirn: the important thing to remember is that everyone who mods a map (usually) is intentionally giving what they feel is solid, important advice
00:54 MrSergio: ok, I guess I'll go to bed after this one
00:54 MrSergio: I dunno why I started a modding marathon out of the blue tonight
00:54 Shiirn: updated
00:55 Shiirn: 's pretty nerfed while still being jumpy
00:55 MrSergio: nice
00:55 Shiirn: angles are around 90 instead of 135
00:55 MrSergio: I'm personally satisfied with it
00:55 MrSergio: let me check the meta dumb stuff
00:55 Shiirn: oh sec
00:55 Shiirn: yeah
00:55 Shiirn: u google dat song
00:56 Shiirn: 05:04:035 (1) - oops it ends on 1/8 tick
00:56 Shiirn: LOL
00:56 Shiirn: fetish fiddled with it a tiny bit
00:56 MrSergio: gg x)
00:58 MrSergio: jesus, how many versions of this are around on osu? =w="
00:58 MrSergio: I googled that and besides the first 3 results, I get only osu results
00:58 Shiirn: since it's a fanmade remix im 90% sure there's no real meta dumping to do
00:58 MrSergio: I found the soundcloud, but it's not official
00:58 Shiirn: yeah
00:58 Shiirn: cametek?
00:58 Shiirn: that's camellia's official soundcloud
00:59 MrSergio: Azerexs
00:59 Shiirn: nope not official
00:59 MrSergio: do you have Camellia's one?
00:59 Shiirn: oh
00:59 Shiirn: hold on
01:00 Shiirn: http://exittunes.com/detail/qwce-00450.html
01:00 Shiirn: 14. Nirvana(Camellia's "BinaryHeaven" Remix) / kors k feat.ЯIRE (Remixed by Camellia)
01:00 Shiirn: so we gotta put in the album name and label?
01:00 MrSergio: perfect
01:00 MrSergio: sure
01:00 MrSergio: why not
01:00 Shiirn: muh google fu is 10/10
01:01 Shiirn: EXIT TUNES Let's Do It Again!!
01:01 Shiirn: should be enough
01:01 MrSergio: yeah
01:01 Shiirn: k updating
01:02 Shiirn: aaaand fetish is still fiddling with that last slider
01:02 Shiirn: lol
01:03 MrSergio: =w=


Nerfed slider jumps on last kiai, reduced spacing on some triplets for more atmosphere and tried to re-arrange the last slider (even tho results aren't that visible, but whatever)

metadata: http://exittunes.com/detail/qwce-00450.html
Shiguma
476 posts
Joined May 2014
Shiguma
It begins
Pentori
1,157 posts
Joined November 2015
Pentori
hey

[General]
don't need enable countdown :p
afaik, you only tag users if they mapped/storyboarded. not too sure about hitsounding
hp is kinda low.. why not use 6 - 7

regarding metadata, why is the formatting of the title and artist ignored?
artist: kors k feat.ЯIRE
romanised: kors k feat.RIRE
title: Nirvana(Camellia's "BinaryHeaven" Remix)

[Transcendence]
00:35:069 (1) - the bells are pretty important in structuring the melody, so why choose to ignore this one but use the others?
00:44:035 (3) - use a 1/4 reverse slider? since there are 3 sounds here
00:51:966 (6,1) - would make more sense to swap the nc's here given in other cases you had the nc right after the slider 00:58:862 (1) - 01:03:000 (1)
01:34:380 (1,2,3) - i hear 5 buzzes here. there are two on 01:34:552 (2) - so using circles would make more sense imo and on 01:34:724 (3) - using 2 kick sliders for each buzz would be nice and lets u map the kick drum on 01:35:069 . and hitsound these of course
01:39:035 - ^ these buzzes come in 4 like at 01:40:587 (3,4,5,6,7) - and 01:41:966 (3,4,5,6) - so u should hitsound them appropriately
01:50:931 (1,1) - 01:56:449 (1,1) - if you were a perfectionist you'd polish these up. http://puu.sh/rKEVe/ea9e95128e.jpg
03:01:449 (1) - map bell pls. u did it for 02:58:690 (2,3)

poke me when you've replied
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Pentori wrote:

hey

[General]
don't need enable countdown :p shiiiiieeeet
afaik, you only tag users if they mapped/storyboarded. not too sure about hitsounding He put a lot of work into the map and due to his hitsounding some of the sections were changed outright so it's potentially arguable that he mapped some of the map itself by doing so.
hp is kinda low.. why not use 6 - 7 Any higher makes Hard Rock a bit iffy towards the end with the long weak section into the extremely long slider. I prefer the HP being too low rather than too high.

regarding metadata, why is the formatting of the title and artist ignored?
artist: kors k feat.ЯIRE
romanised: kors k feat.RIRE
title: Nirvana(Camellia's "BinaryHeaven" Remix)

Changed those, I think the formatting just got buggered up in a .osu-via-puush thing and I fucked up while changing it back. (the Я changes to gibberish if you upload a .osu with it to puush since puush converts it to plaintext instead of UTF-8)

[Transcendence]
00:35:069 (1) - the bells are pretty important in structuring the melody, so why choose to ignore this one but use the others? the entirety of this section largely passes over the bells where they're not overlapping with the 3/4 rhythm used.
00:44:035 (3) - use a 1/4 reverse slider? since there are 3 sounds here there are 3 sounds there, but they're not the same sounds as the three sliders are following.
00:51:966 (6,1) - would make more sense to swap the nc's here given in other cases you had the nc right after the slider 00:58:862 (1) - 01:03:000 (1) I'm not completely sold on this change because of how the 1/1 slider starts on a very significant beat, but my qualms are low enough I'll change it.
01:34:380 (1,2,3) - i hear 5 buzzes here. there are two on 01:34:552 (2) - so using circles would make more sense imo and on 01:34:724 (3) - using 2 kick sliders for each buzz would be nice and lets u map the kick drum on 01:35:069 . and hitsound these of course I don't know what you're listening to hear - those buzzes are hitsounded, the actual music has the beats much more muted and there's just the three.
01:39:035 - ^ these buzzes come in 4 like at 01:40:587 (3,4,5,6,7) - and 01:41:966 (3,4,5,6) - so u should hitsound them appropriately If i were to map these sounds perfectly accurately, they'd be 1/8 longer, but those play like ass and don't follow the tap-hold of 1/4 sliders very well at all. The buzz vs kick mirror is intentional, and imo works quite well.
01:50:931 (1,1) - 01:56:449 (1,1) - if you were a perfectionist you'd polish these up. http://puu.sh/rKEVe/ea9e95128e.jpg my god my eyes do people play on 1080p and use magnifying glasses to check this shieeet
03:01:449 (1) - map bell pls. u did it for 02:58:690 (2,3) eh fine

poke me when you've replied

late response #yolo
Pentori
1,157 posts
Joined November 2015
Pentori
#2
had a quick irc to clarify stuff but nothing got changed
Ambient
579 posts
Joined August 2013
Ambient
and free your miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind
Nerova Riuz GX
1,413 posts
Joined April 2012
Nerova Riuz GX
03:01:449 (1) - finish
03:01:621 - delete finish

would not effect your ranking process
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn
oops yeah that's my mistake for adding the note, i added the bell but forgot the finish on the start. Placed but not gonna pop since it's so minor.
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team
4,999 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
unlocked by mapper's request
Chaos
osu! Alumni
244 posts
Joined May 2013
Chaos
mfw ninja'd :<
Ongaku
607 posts
Joined January 2014
Ongaku
yay
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn
we're back in business
Hikaru Rose
236 posts
Joined August 2014
Hikaru Rose
Why would you collab with someone else but keep parts from EphemeralFetish in your map?
Ongaku
607 posts
Joined January 2014
Ongaku
I remapped all of fetishes parts, nothing is left from the previous collab
Hikaru Rose
236 posts
Joined August 2014
Hikaru Rose
Most notably the last slider where he spend like 40 minutes on!
Ongaku
607 posts
Joined January 2014
Ongaku
? I made that slider myself, of course inspired by the two stars to represent the collaboration
Hikaru Rose
236 posts
Joined August 2014
Hikaru Rose
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1124335 you can look for yourself, he updated it in november
Ongaku
607 posts
Joined January 2014
Ongaku
Never knew he mapped it by himself, but I promise you i made the ending slider myself. If its really such a big deal, im willing to remap the slider.
Hikaru Rose
236 posts
Joined August 2014
Hikaru Rose

Ongaku wrote:

Never knew he mapped it by himself, but I promise you i made the ending slider myself. If its really such a big deal, im willing to remap the slider.
Im not sure if hes okay with it but don't just say its yours?/??
Ongaku
607 posts
Joined January 2014
Ongaku
Its mine because i mapped it?? I will say its inspiration from his slider, but i mapped it in my own vision with the two stars.
Hikaru Rose
236 posts
Joined August 2014
Hikaru Rose

Ongaku wrote:

Its mine because i mapped it?? I will say its inspiration from his slider, but i mapped it in my own vision with the two stars.
They are identical but sure.
Ongaku
607 posts
Joined January 2014
Ongaku
Oh.

I see the problem now, Shiirn didnt apply my slider.

This was what it was supposed to be, but Shiirn preferred Fetishes I assume.

Hikaru Rose
236 posts
Joined August 2014
Hikaru Rose
makes more sense now
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Hikaru Rose wrote:

Why would you collab with someone else but keep parts from EphemeralFetish in your map?

kindly, first off, fuck off

second off, i did not like ongaku's slider replacement for fetish's, and decided to leave the current one. It is my fault for not clarifying, but of course, i disappeared due to real life circumstances and didn't really explain to anyone.

third off, me and ongaku are going to create a replacement together that will thematically have the same two-star concept that i suggested to fetish

fourth off, i wasn't pressing to rank it with fetish's slider so don't get all indignant like a little bitch

fifth, it was exactly one slider that was not replaced, so fuck off again
Hikaru Rose
236 posts
Joined August 2014
Hikaru Rose

Shiirn wrote:

Hikaru Rose wrote:

Why would you collab with someone else but keep parts from EphemeralFetish in your map?

kindly, first off, fuck off - thanks

second off, i did not like ongaku's slider replacement for fetish's, and decided to leave the current one. It is my fault for not clarifying, but of course, i disappeared due to real life circumstances and didn't really explain to anyone. - understandable

third off, me and ongaku are going to create a replacement together that will thematically have the same two-star concept that i suggested to fetish - that's nice to hear!

fourth off, i wasn't pressing to rank it with fetish's slider so don't get all indignant like a little bitch - Fetish was planning on ranking his before his restriction so don't insult me for.. Nothing??

fifth, it was exactly one slider that was not replaced, so fuck off again - 01:50:069 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - first thing I recognized. I could try and look for more but I have better things to do !!
Syph
Beatmap Nominator
848 posts
Joined August 2014
Syph
meh could at least have replaced it with ongaku's until you made a new one since you like dropped fetish from this entirely
Nerova Riuz GX
1,413 posts
Joined April 2012
Nerova Riuz GX
Despite of the thing I still have to post something for the update

00:34:724 - finish
00:35:242 (5) - finish
00:35:414 (6) - whistle
00:37:483 - finish
00:38:000 (5) - finish
00:40:242 - finish

00:42:957 (3) - not quite sure if this is misplaced to 1/8. add finish.

01:19:897 - whistle and finish
01:22:655 - whistle and finish
Actually I'm not quite sure about this part since the new objects here almost ruined most of the keysounded bells. welp.

01:51:449 (1) - 01:56:966 (1) - 02:08:000 (1) - 04:06:621 (1) - 04:12:138 (1) - Highlight the sliderbody and set its sampleset to Normal. We need the sliderslide.wav
Looks like the hitsound copier you used doesn't support such a thing LOL

03:01:449 (1) - finish
03:01:621 - remove finish
03:29:121 - Set sampleset to Drum

these might be all

no offense but i think ongaku's new parts don't go well with the hitsounds :/
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Hikaru Rose wrote:

01:50:069 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - first thing I recognized. I could try and look for more but I have better things to do !!
i'm like 90% sure that's either mine or something me and fetish did to tie the parts together. The bookmark locations are not hard changes, i often work with a collab partner to mesh parts together more fluidly. There isn't a raw "He did this I did this line" for most of the map because at the time we worked together and until he started prioritizing trying to get into Ayyri's pants more than communicating with me like a human being, things like 03:42:655 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - were basically both our creations (alright for that bit i basically made an ugly concept and he cleaned it up lol)


Nerova i'll go over the map's hitsounds as you like. I started fixing them, but never actually finished. If you want to drop support because ongaku's parts are different rhythmically and you think they don't fit, go ahead.


Anyone else can buzz off. I didn't revive this map to have it be prodded by people who are in it to attack me rather than support the map. And sure as fuck it's not ready for modding again yet because ongaku literally finished the parts not a couple days ago and I have my own work that needs to be done first.


Updated the map with a wip replacement slider to prevent triggering fatish. (obviously, with several 1/8 note placeholders and markers, it's not playable, so shut up)
ferret irl
213 posts
Joined July 2015
ferret irl
irc
20:00 Shiirn: what u think
20:00 fdsfd: idk
20:04 fdsfd: sry  i suck too much at mapping to do a half-assed mod.. maybe a 1/12-assed mod?? ?
20:05 Shiirn: lol
20:05 Shiirn: idc i just want it to look like stuff is being suggested
20:05 Shiirn: the map is pretty much perfect
20:08 fdsfd: 01:48:862 (1,2,3,4) - going into 01:49:207 (1,2,3,4) -  doesn't make sense to me bc the pitch is raising and the music is building up to the drop but 01:49:207 (1,2,3,4) - is less spaced i dont understand help
20:09 Shiirn: mmm
20:10 Shiirn: not my part but generally ongaku likes to have the last bit of the breakdown kill the momentum to emphasize it even more than just spacing it out like crazy
20:10 Shiirn: whether it's an effective technique is debatable, but he's consistent about it
20:10 fdsfd: ok lol 
20:10 Shiirn: 04:39:207 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,1) - he does the same here
20:15 fdsfd: 01:53:000 - i think there should be a circle here so its not rhythmically awkward for the player
20:15 fdsfd: sry for late reply i had to think about it xd
20:15 Shiirn: yeah well
20:15 Shiirn: i thought about that a lot too
20:15 Shiirn: and there's no beat in the music and the pause is there on purpose
20:16 Shiirn: so the map's getting one too
20:16 Shiirn: you're not the first, and likely won't be the last, to point that out
20:16 Shiirn: my answer will remain steadfast, though
20:16 fdsfd: . 
20:16 Shiirn: .
20:19 Shiirn: i mean, if that makes sense? e_e
20:19 fdsfd: 02:33:690 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - this should be mapped with a stream imo the 1/4 sliders don't really fit 
20:20 Shiirn: he felt that a stream outright was too intense, but i'm a bit concerned with his over-streaming in other bits and will be talking to him about it
20:23 fdsfd: 03:21:621 (6,7) - this jump is too spaced for this part
20:24 Shiirn: yeah its a bit much
20:24 Shiirn: moved a bit
20:24 fdsfd: along with these jumps too 03:42:138 (2,3,4) - 
20:25 Shiirn: nah those are fine
20:25 fdsfd: also 03:41:276 (1,4) - stack pzl
20:25 Shiirn: idk how they got unstacked wtf
20:27 fdsfd: 03:54:724 (2) - second white joint thing should be pushed a bit up so it doesn't look like a wavy slider with a birth defect wtf..
20:27 Shiirn: it's....not THAT bad, but fixed
20:27 fdsfd: im very picky about my sliders
20:28 Shiirn: yeah well
20:28 Shiirn: don't assume everyone else can notice tiny ass imperfections that are hard to notice without outright selecting the slider and snorting your computer screen to check that the lines are level
20:28 Shiirn: just... my advice
20:28 Shiirn: lol
20:28 Shiirn: still, fixed tho
20:29 fdsfd: i can notice in-game xd
20:29 Shiirn: sure
20:30 fdsfd: 03:56:276 (1) -  less curve for a e s t h e t i c [https://u.nya.is/yyfhcx.png like this] or something that would match 03:57:138 (1,2,1,2) - 
20:30 Shiirn: ok
20:32 fdsfd: 03:57:828 (1) - should be made into a less autistic wavy slider [https://u.nya.is/rrpqol.png like this]
20:32 Shiirn: i like it this way
20:33 Shiirn: also, furries crying autistic is a bit of a joke
20:33 fdsfd: thx
20:36 fdsfd: 04:06:104 (1,1) -  i like this
20:36 Shiirn: well it happened earlier in the map too
20:36 fdsfd: ye
20:37 fdsfd: i didn't look at it much until i saw a 1 pixel off thing and almost told u to fix xd
20:43 fdsfd: 02:01:621 (3) - sorry for nitpicking but i think it would look better if the slider looked a bit more like [https://u.nya.is/iipkrz.png this] so it wouldn't look like quasimodo sitting in the park
20:43 Shiirn: hahahahaahahahahah no fuck no
20:43 Shiirn: lo
20:44 Shiirn: it's intended to be bent out of shame
20:44 Shiirn: shape
20:44 fdsfd: shame
20:44 Shiirn: and i'm sorry it looks like complete ass to you and you want it to fit your ideals of cleanliness :s
20:45 fdsfd: ok i'm done do i get a cookie
20:46 Shiirn: since i changed a thing u can post and get kd
20:46 Shiirn: lol
20:46 Shiirn: with a chatlog
20:47 fdsfd: yea
20:47 fdsfd: that's what i'm doing
20:47 fdsfd: thx 4 the 🍪 <---- this is a kd cookie
Karen
2,873 posts
Joined August 2013
Karen
Bubble #1

irc mod
2017-03-24 23:42 Shiirn: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1043326 kors k feat.RIRE - Nirvana(Camellia's "BinaryHeaven" Remix)]
2017-03-24 23:43 Shiirn: i've spent forever cleaning it u psince it was re-done
2017-03-24 23:45 Karen: 02:35:069 (1) - isn't this unrankable?
2017-03-24 23:46 Shiirn: no, the ending and start are very clear
2017-03-24 23:46 Karen: i mean you silenced both slider slide and slider tick
2017-03-24 23:46 Shiirn: i think so anyway, it's very clear where it starts and ends
2017-03-24 23:47 Shiirn: they're 5%, not silenced, im pretty sure, but uhhh maybe? i can increase the volume a bit if necessary
2017-03-24 23:47 Shiirn: it's not a big issue to me
2017-03-24 23:47 Shiirn: we don't use any slidertick replacements, so its absolutely not silenced, but the sliderslide might be
2017-03-24 23:47 Karen: i just can't hear the tick sound clearly
2017-03-24 23:48 Shiirn: understandable, i'm okay with increasing the volume just to make the slidertick audible
2017-03-24 23:48 Shiirn: 00:05:414 (1) - these sort of hide sliderticks too though
2017-03-24 23:48 Karen: then change all of them?
2017-03-24 23:49 Karen: i'm pretty sure this could lead to a dq
2017-03-24 23:49 Shiirn: i'm fine with raising them to be barely-audible
2017-03-24 23:49 Karen: or at least some drama
2017-03-24 23:49 Shiirn: the reason i nuked them was cuz i hated the loud ticking sound
2017-03-24 23:49 Shiirn: if it was soft i'm okay with that though
2017-03-24 23:49 Karen: i hate it too but it's rc
2017-03-24 23:49 Karen: and it's under the old rc
2017-03-24 23:49 Shiirn: >shiirn map >drama
2017-03-24 23:49 Shiirn: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :^)
2017-03-24 23:50 Karen: yes please
2017-03-24 23:50 Shiirn: yeah i feel like it's just "okay" either way
2017-03-24 23:51 Shiirn: k putting the star at 25% volume and the other ticks in 00:03:439 - this section and 04:49:083 - to 15% tick
2017-03-24 23:51 Shiirn: audible but not loud for me
2017-03-24 23:52 Karen: ok ok
2017-03-24 23:53 Karen: map is good i'll just nitpick some nazi things
2017-03-24 23:54 Karen: 04:19:380 (1) - like this unnecessary nc
2017-03-24 23:54 Shiirn: sounds fine, i probably missed some nazi things
2017-03-24 23:54 Shiirn: 04:19:380 (1) - this is because of the drum sound, same reason it's bent and hitsounds change
2017-03-24 23:54 Shiirn: i was thinking of making 04:19:207 (1,2) - a 1/4 slider but couldn't decide
2017-03-24 23:54 Shiirn: what do u think
2017-03-24 23:55 Karen: but the're is no 1/6 here :thinking:
2017-03-24 23:56 Shiirn: ...:eyes:
2017-03-24 23:56 Karen: stream jump http://puu.sh/uWY54/2ed22ec135.jpg
2017-03-24 23:56 Shiirn: RIP FC
2017-03-24 23:57 Karen: well it's not hard as it looks
2017-03-24 23:57 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/uWY7C/c2017f0279.png
2017-03-24 23:57 Shiirn: ?
2017-03-24 23:57 Karen: yea it's ok
2017-03-24 23:57 Shiirn: \o/
2017-03-24 23:58 Karen: just make the nc looks reasonable
2017-03-24 23:58 Karen: lol
2017-03-24 23:58 Shiirn: yeah
2017-03-25 00:00 Karen: maybe missing nc here? 00:35:414 (6) -
2017-03-25 00:00 Karen: i don't quite understand your nc system but seems like that
2017-03-25 00:00 Shiirn: no ur right
2017-03-25 00:00 Shiirn: its missing nc
2017-03-25 00:01 Karen: 00:40:931 (6) - this one too?
2017-03-25 00:01 Shiirn: 00:40:931 (6) - too
2017-03-25 00:01 Shiirn: yaaaaa
2017-03-25 00:01 Shiirn: 00:41:966 (1) - makes this end the nice special yellow too
2017-03-25 00:01 Shiirn: :D
2017-03-25 00:02 Shiirn: ah no added another nc to fit, but yeah 3 added ncs
2017-03-25 00:02 Karen: okkkk
2017-03-25 00:03 Karen: why you like blankets so much
2017-03-25 00:03 Shiirn: because peopletell me i suck at making them clean so i use them to prove them wrong
2017-03-25 00:03 Shiirn: idk it just fits my patterns a lot
2017-03-25 00:03 Shiirn: also this is a collab, evens are a friend of mine
2017-03-25 00:04 Shiirn: 01:09:665 - this blanket section is ongaku's xd
2017-03-25 00:05 Karen: :(
2017-03-25 00:05 Karen: blankets everywhere
2017-03-25 00:05 Shiirn: i tried my best to make sure they all clean
2017-03-25 00:06 Karen: 01:25:587 (2) - why is it not ctrl+g'd
2017-03-25 00:06 Karen: 01:25:414 (1,2,3,4) - inconsistent
2017-03-25 00:06 Shiirn: mmm
2017-03-25 00:06 Shiirn: 01:25:759 (3) - i think this just got accidently ctrl+g'd
2017-03-25 00:06 Shiirn: at some point
2017-03-25 00:06 Shiirn: LOL
2017-03-25 00:06 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/uWYzx/bab3977b0f.png
2017-03-25 00:07 Karen: wew
2017-03-25 00:07 Karen: seems yes
2017-03-25 00:07 Karen: 01:28:173 (1,1) - this is just too far
2017-03-25 00:07 Shiirn: agree, move 01:28:345 (1,2,3) - closer is fine?
2017-03-25 00:08 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/uWYCt/93f564f3bf.png
2017-03-25 00:08 Karen: yea, or just move the circle instead
2017-03-25 00:08 Karen: both are fine it's up to you
2017-03-25 00:08 Shiirn: circle means 01:26:104 (1,1,1,1,1) - this buildup changes
2017-03-25 00:08 Karen: that's ok
2017-03-25 00:08 Shiirn: er pattern
2017-03-25 00:08 Shiirn: o/
2017-03-25 00:08 Karen: i know it's for the pattern but it doesn't look that nice imo
2017-03-25 00:09 Karen: 01:31:621 (1,2) - this is super ugly
2017-03-25 00:09 Shiirn: hmm
2017-03-25 00:09 Shiirn: what to do with it though, just make it not blanket?
2017-03-25 00:09 Karen: http://puu.sh/uWYHW/65f1ef380d.jpg
2017-03-25 00:09 Karen: try this?
2017-03-25 00:10 Shiirn: 01:32:828 (7,1) - and the like don't blanket anyway
2017-03-25 00:10 Shiirn: oh make it further hm
2017-03-25 00:10 Karen: 01:32:828 (7,1) - this one looks ok
2017-03-25 00:10 Shiirn: yeah ill do u
2017-03-25 00:10 Karen: but blanket is off
2017-03-25 00:11 Shiirn: not meant to blanket01:32:828 (7,1) -
2017-03-25 00:11 Shiirn: but probably should
2017-03-25 00:11 Shiirn: for consistency
2017-03-25 00:11 Karen: yea
2017-03-25 00:11 Shiirn: 01:32:828 (7) - moved to fix
2017-03-25 00:11 Karen: ok
2017-03-25 00:14 Karen: 03:33:690 (1) - aesthetic pls
2017-03-25 00:15 Karen: how about this http://puu.sh/uWYXv/961c22c66f.jpg
2017-03-25 00:15 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/uWYXG/1b817b7a7d.png it curves more now? idk
2017-03-25 00:15 Shiirn: o
2017-03-25 00:15 Shiirn: hm
2017-03-25 00:16 Shiirn: yeah that works
2017-03-25 00:16 Karen: too much overlapping here i meant
2017-03-25 00:16 Shiirn: ah ic
2017-03-25 00:16 Karen: 03:41:276 (1,1) - wow
2017-03-25 00:16 Shiirn: i did ur suggest
2017-03-25 00:16 Karen: rip fc
2017-03-25 00:17 Shiirn: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2017-03-25 00:17 Shiirn: i've actually
2017-03-25 00:17 Shiirn: had no playtesters break or mis-read that
2017-03-25 00:17 Karen: :thinking:
2017-03-25 00:17 Shiirn: because the spacing is so different and the stream ends on dominant finger so continuing it just feels really awkward so they never do it
2017-03-25 00:17 Karen: maybe yes
2017-03-25 00:18 Shiirn: for stream its zxzxzxzxzxz and pressing X to continue is just sobad
2017-03-25 00:18 Shiirn: and the map has very little 1/4 starting rhythms or weird rhythms like that
2017-03-25 00:18 Karen: yea i'm not asking you to change it anyways
2017-03-25 00:18 Karen: it works well
2017-03-25 00:18 Shiirn: o-o-oh.
2017-03-25 00:19 Shiirn: T_T i get defensive
2017-03-25 00:19 Shiirn: soz
2017-03-25 00:19 Karen: orz
2017-03-25 00:20 Karen: 03:44:035 - best part
2017-03-25 00:20 Shiirn: ongaku's part and yah its a really good chorus
2017-03-25 00:21 Karen: just ask him to stop abusing blankets
2017-03-25 00:21 Shiirn: it's his style and i encouraged it so its my fault
2017-03-25 00:21 Shiirn: xd
2017-03-25 00:21 Karen: :(
2017-03-25 00:21 Karen: ok nothing else to me
2017-03-25 00:21 Karen: check aimod
2017-03-25 00:21 Shiirn: o
2017-03-25 00:22 Karen: fix those unsnaps
2017-03-25 00:22 Shiirn: FFS
2017-03-25 00:22 Shiirn: fixing
2017-03-25 00:22 Karen: 05:04:035 (1) - are you sure this is rnkable wtf
2017-03-25 00:23 Shiirn: yes why not
2017-03-25 00:23 Shiirn: the curve?
2017-03-25 00:23 Karen: http://puu.sh/uWZlt/a2418d23f7.jpg looks not clear?
2017-03-25 00:23 Karen: or is it just me
2017-03-25 00:23 Shiirn: u look at it
2017-03-25 00:23 Shiirn: i mean
2017-03-25 00:23 Shiirn: u think
2017-03-25 00:23 Shiirn: "it's gonna go around the circle"
2017-03-25 00:23 Shiirn: and it does
2017-03-25 00:24 Shiirn: it doesnt stop and go backwards so it makes sense
2017-03-25 00:24 Karen: ok
2017-03-25 00:24 Shiirn: anyone who tries to dq because of it is just being mean to me, not because they think it's seriously a problem with the map
2017-03-25 00:24 Karen: i'm fine with it
2017-03-25 00:24 Shiirn: :eyes:
2017-03-25 00:24 Shiirn: okay cool
2017-03-25 00:25 Shiirn: update takes forever cuz so many hitsound though
2017-03-25 00:26 Karen: where did you find these cool hitsounds
2017-03-25 00:27 Shiirn: nerova guiz rx did most of the hitsounding
2017-03-25 00:27 Shiirn: i think some are from lordraika but the rest idk
2017-03-25 00:27 Shiirn: ok update done xd
2017-03-25 00:27 Shiirn: fixed snaps ofc
2017-03-25 00:28 Karen: http://puu.sh/uWZAV/c0f8bacdf7.png
2017-03-25 00:28 Karen: :eyes:
2017-03-25 00:28 Shiirn: CHECKING
2017-03-25 00:29 Shiirn: How in tarnation
2017-03-25 00:29 Shiirn: it's not fixing
2017-03-25 00:29 Karen: just reamke it
2017-03-25 00:30 Shiirn: i did
2017-03-25 00:30 Shiirn: weird af but its gone now
2017-03-25 00:31 Shiirn: i thought i fixed it just by re-snapping
2017-03-25 00:31 Shiirn: e_e
2017-03-25 00:31 Shiirn: updating, rip 5 minutes
2017-03-25 00:32 Karen: o_o
Lasse
osu! Alumni
3,648 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
as "requested" I guess?

is the hp4 really needed? I didn't check but it would probably still be passable with hr if you use 5. I mean I played through the map and there were so many spots where I missed a lot and was expeting to fail but nothing happened lol

00:46:707 (4) - does this really need to be mapped? you ignore all the other background 1/4 here and it just seems a bit unfitting together with the 1/4 on 00:46:535 - seeming more noticeable/similar but skipped
01:05:931 (2,3) - map such different sounds, but are pretty much the same? how about just doing http://lasse.s-ul.eu/xdW5c7Jj.jpg here? that would make the sounds on the remaining repeat stand out much more I think
02:34:466 - there is still some blue tick emphasis stuff goin on and current rhythm felt a bit too bland for that. maybe something like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/BTXZTHQI.jpg ? Bit similar for 02:33:690 (1,2,1,2) - I think, but the more I listen to it trying to figure things out the more unsure I get so lol
02:39:897 - mute tail? considering stuff like 02:40:931 - is muted this probably should be too

03:20:587 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - seems a bit overspaced overall considering it's only start of the buildup, drums are 1/1 and melody stuff is similar to before. I mean it seemed way harder and intense than 03:27:483 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - (except rhythm from the 1/4 sliders) which is much more pronounced in the song

03:36:362 (4,1) - movement into this seems a bit too harsh, even with how emphasized 1 is, you could rotate 03:36:449 (1,2,3) - by like -15° http://lasse.s-ul.eu/oa2JC5Ep.jpg
03:39:897 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - kinda wish this was made out of 1/8 sliders instead of circles since something similar was done on 02:22:311 (1,2,3,4) - , but might suck too much for playability in such a long and spaced stream lol

03:39:897 - shouldn't you switch to the red/blue/.. combocolors here already cause of strong beat and 1/8 stuff?
03:42:009 - is the snapping here intentional? I mean there isn't really any audible beat to snap to so it's alright, but ending it 1/8 earlier seems more reasonable than the random 1/8

03:54:724 (2) - 3/4 seems a bit unfitting considering the sound it's mapped to is quite short and all the stuff on 03:54:897 - // 04:33:345 (3) - similar here
03:55:069 (1) - shouldnt this end on the blue tick?
03:55:587 (1,1,1) - don't really get the 1/6 snaps here either // 03:59:035 (2,4,2) - with noticeable sounds on beats like 03:59:811 - and all
05:04:035 (1) - silencing sliderticks and fading out sliderslide might fit better here

k call me back if you have some explanation for the 1/6 things (or if you change them)
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Lasse wrote:

as "requested" I guess?

is the hp4 really needed? I didn't check but it would probably still be passable with hr if you use 5. I mean I played through the map and there were so many spots where I missed a lot and was expeting to fail but nothing happened lol I am a firm proponent of team "fuck HP drain anyway". I'll set it to whatever BNs want it to be set to to rank it, I 100% don't care what that particular setting is set to.

00:46:707 (4) - does this really need to be mapped? you ignore all the other background 1/4 here and it just seems a bit unfitting together with the 1/4 on 00:46:535 - seeming more noticeable/similar but skipped Originally I was going to have triple emphasis much more consistently but decided against it and never really looked into changing this set because I still felt like it fit (since really it fits either way, it's just inconsistent). I changed it.

01:05:931 (2,3) - map such different sounds, but are pretty much the same? how about just doing http://lasse.s-ul.eu/xdW5c7Jj.jpg here? that would make the sounds on the remaining repeat stand out much more I think The sounds themselves are similar enough, and in the background enough, that making them completely different would just be overkill. I prefer the combo being a simple off-beat pair of repeat sliders, as it builds up better into the next section than having another offbeat 1/2. I wanted to have the 1/4s because of the background waving sound, but actual streams would overkill it.

02:34:466 - there is still some blue tick emphasis stuff goin on and current rhythm felt a bit too bland for that. maybe something like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/BTXZTHQI.jpg ? Bit similar for 02:33:690 (1,2,1,2) - I think, but the more I listen to it trying to figure things out the more unsure I get so lol This is a massive No from me because in no other point in the map does this kind of double-double click pattern happen. It'd be completely unique and inconsistent with the rest of the map, and as it stands now, this "buildup" is more of a "builddown" and having the 1/4 sliders become an entirely unique rhythm in the track would rather be counter-productive to bring down the intensity. I'm open to moving the yellow pair of sliders to potentially make the actual kick sounds at the end "properly emphasized", though. Lemme know what you think.

02:39:897 - mute tail? considering stuff like 02:40:931 - is muted this probably should be too This was an oversight from Karen's mod. We raised the volume from 5% already to make the sliderticks "barely audible" and I forgot to silence the ending.

03:20:587 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - seems a bit overspaced overall considering it's only start of the buildup, drums are 1/1 and melody stuff is similar to before. I mean it seemed way harder and intense than 03:27:483 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - (except rhythm from the 1/4 sliders) which is much more pronounced in the song I actually disagree. I feel like the spacing is suitably large, as this section is very energetic for a buildup section, and near the ending the pitch and tone are actually lower as it builds into the different rhythm buildup in the next section. This section has high spacing, but it's not difficult spacing.

03:36:362 (4,1) - movement into this seems a bit too harsh, even with how emphasized 1 is, you could rotate 03:36:449 (1,2,3) - by like -15° http://lasse.s-ul.eu/oa2JC5Ep.jpg Moved 03:36:104 (1,2,3,4) - to make it more consistent with the other streamhops and simultaneously make 4->1 be less harsh.
03:39:897 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - kinda wish this was made out of 1/8 sliders instead of circles since something similar was done on 02:22:311 (1,2,3,4) - , but might suck too much for playability in such a long and spaced stream lol My sentiments exactly. It'd be way too long of a 1/8 stream and putting it only near the end would make no sense consistency-wise, so I elected to just have it be differently patterened out.

03:39:897 - shouldn't you switch to the red/blue/.. combocolors here already cause of strong beat and 1/8 stuff? Woops, yeah, that one red 1234 should be a full red, not pale red, the rest is clean.
03:42:009 - is the snapping here intentional? I mean there isn't really any audible beat to snap to so it's alright, but ending it 1/8 earlier seems more reasonable than the random 1/8 I could have fucking sworn it was snapped to the damn white beat. Fixed.

03:54:724 (2) - 3/4 seems a bit unfitting considering the sound it's mapped to is quite short and all the stuff on 03:54:897 - // 04:33:345 (3) - similar here There's actually the deep-pitch growl in the background as well, and it fits that quite well, the higher-pitched whine is more like two noises anyway. For the second one, I'm not entirely convinced of it myself, but I think it's simply because it's the end of that segment and instead of just having two more 1/4 sliders that have been spammed already, Ongaku chose to just have a transitioning slider instead, even if it didn't actually follow the exact click rhythm of that unique transition, it at least did it differently in tune with the music. I'll bug him to change if necessary, though.
03:55:069 (1) - shouldnt this end on the blue tick? stupid 1/6 autosnapping
03:55:587 (1,1,1) - don't really get the 1/6 snaps here either // 03:59:035 (2,4,2) - with noticeable sounds on beats like 03:59:811 - and all
05:04:035 (1) - silencing sliderticks and fading out sliderslide might fit better here For the sake of not needing to beat off inane bullshit crying off with a stick, I'd rather the sliderticks stay audible because the soft-sliderslide might not be audible enough and like Karen pointed out, I want to avoid actually having any potentially unrankable or arguably unrankable issues with my maps that aren't actually part of what I intend to be weird (see: 1/6 sliders) so I did fade out the sliderslide but I'm really hesitant to silence the sliderticks.

k call me back if you have some explanation for the 1/6 things (or if you change them)
The 1/6 snappings in that area are to heavily emphasize how the growls in that section are all offbeat. They play next to no differently from normal 1/4s, but feel different when going along with the music. The 1/6 sliders follow the growls, which occur in sets of three in tune with the rest of the rhythm, a grand total of twice. (Also, I don't really hear any actual beats on the blue ticks with them. If I did, I would have just scrapped the 1/6 idea and used faster 1/4s, but as-is I think it works out neatly. I'll change it if absolutely necessary though.)

Updated.
Lasse
osu! Alumni
3,648 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
alright then
#2
Side
1,127 posts
Joined October 2013
Side
nice hitsounding style...seems familiar... :thinking:

btw lower the volume on the woob hitsound at 02:13:345 (3) - by like -3db maybe a bit more. Too loud vs the rest of the hitsounds.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Shiirn
agri
Cryptic
551 posts
Joined December 2013
Cryptic
Done via discord voice + listing stuff in chat for an overall fun experience.
Good stuff m8y, have a flame.

stuff
11:43 Shiirn: 01:49:207 (1,2,3,4) - shorter spacing for em ph a sis
11:44 Shiirn: 01:53:000 - as long as you don't try to get clicks on these points
11:44 Cryptic: 02:03:173 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3) - 
11:48 Shiirn: 03:55:069 (1) -
11:49 Cryptic: 03:55:587 (1,2,1,2) - 
11:49 Cryptic: 03:55:587 (1,1) - 
11:49 Shiirn: 03:56:449 (2) -
11:49 Shiirn: :eyes:
11:50 Shiirn: 03:56:276 (1,2,3) - the starts are all even
11:50 Shiirn: it moves the 1/3 sliders up as well
11:52 Cryptic: 04:19:207 (1,2,1,2,1) - 
11:53 Shiirn: 02:03:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3) - this is the same-ish thing
11:54 Cryptic: 04:19:380 (1,2,1) - 
11:58 Cryptic: 00:08:862 (1,2) - 
11:58 Cryptic: 00:08:862 (1,2,3) - 
11:59 Cryptic: one sec
12:00 Shiirn: ya
12:03 Cryptic: 00:32:483 (1,2,3,4) - 
12:04 Cryptic: 00:41:449 -
12:05 Cryptic: 00:53:000 (1,2,3,4) - 
12:07 Shiirn: 01:26:104 (1,1,1,1) - ongaku does some stacking here, should i do similar to this?
12:08 Cryptic: 00:54:553 (4) - 
12:09 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/v4B1b/3088fd34ad.png
12:09 Shiirn: lowered ar obv
12:09 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/v4B3d/9202c62794.png
12:11 Cryptic: 01:10:414 (2,3) - 
12:12 Shiirn: 01:21:449 (2,3) - is similar but smaller
12:12 Shiirn: its just due to how he structured them
12:14 Cryptic: 01:40:587 (1,2,1,2) - 
12:15 Cryptic: 01:41:966 (1,2,1,2,1) - 
12:16 Shiirn: 01:41:966 (1,2,1,2) - 01:43:345 (1,2,1,2) - 01:44:724 (1,2,1,2) -
12:17 Shiirn: 01:40:931 (1,2,1) -
12:17 Cryptic: 01:41:103 (2,1) - 
12:17 Cryptic: 01:43:690 (1,2,1) - 
12:18 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/v4BuG/2f6469fca6.png
12:18 Cryptic: https://puu.sh/v4BuO/112a23735e.png
12:18 Shiirn: 01:42:483 (2,1) - these aren't further away
12:19 Shiirn: i think the second half having higher spacing is fine thematically
12:19 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/v4BxR/d03b3206fb.png
12:19 Shiirn: k
12:19 Cryptic: 01:42:655 (1) - 
12:21 Cryptic: https://puu.sh/v4BCE/a49e80b729.png
12:22 Cryptic: 01:48:173 (1) - 
12:23 Shiirn: 01:49:552 (1,1) - that technique to have new combos be the same color
12:23 Shiirn: <3
12:26 Cryptic: 01:52:828 (2,1) - 
12:26 Cryptic: 01:52:311 (2,3) - 
12:27 Cryptic: https://puu.sh/v4BVC/71d53835bc.png
12:28 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/v4BYQ/246ece15fc.png
12:29 Shiirn: 01:58:173 (1,2,3) -
12:29 Cryptic: 01:52:138 (1,2,3) - 
12:30 Cryptic: 01:51:966 (3) - 
12:32 Shiirn: 01:53:173 (1,2) - now these are so short spaced compared to 01:58:690 (1,2) - 02:09:724 (3,1) - 04:08:345 (3,1) - (oops nc fixed this one)
12:32 Shiirn: etc
12:34 Cryptic: 01:54:380 (2,3,1) - 
12:35 Shiirn: 01:54:724 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) -
12:35 Cryptic: 01:55:414 (1,2,3,4) - 
12:35 Shiirn: 01:55:759 (3,4,1) - this
12:35 Shiirn: is fine
12:36 Cryptic: 01:55:069 (3,4,1) - 
12:36 Cryptic: 01:55:414 (1,2) - 
12:36 Shiirn: 01:55:242 (4) - well i just mostly need to figure this out
12:36 Cryptic: 01:55:069 (3,4,1,2) - 
12:37 Cryptic: 01:55:414 (1,2) - 
12:38 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/v4Cu5/fac1b78439.png :eyes:
12:41 Cryptic: 02:01:621 (3) - 
12:42 Cryptic: 02:01:104 (1,1) - 
12:42 Shiirn: 02:01:621 (3) - i'm making it so that the straight line is even with 02:01:966 (1) -
12:42 Cryptic: 01:58:690 (3) - 
12:44 Cryptic: 02:02:655 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - 
12:46 Cryptic: 02:09:724 (3) - 
12:46 Cryptic: https://puu.sh/v4CTi/46501d058b.png
12:48 Cryptic: 02:12:655 (1,2,3,4,1) - 
12:48 Cryptic: 02:12:828 (3,4,1) - 
12:49 Cryptic: https://puu.sh/v4D2e/7b49663871.png
12:50 Cryptic: https://puu.sh/v4D8i/1923590e09.png
12:51 Cryptic: https://puu.sh/v4Dak/2a7840229d.png
12:52 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/v4Dd3/e70413d3ad.png
12:53 Cryptic: 02:13:000 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - 
12:55 Cryptic: 02:18:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - 
12:56 Cryptic: 02:18:862 (1,2) - 
12:56 Cryptic: 02:13:345 (3,4) - 
12:57 Cryptic: 02:19:897 (1,2) - 
13:00 Cryptic: 02:22:655 (1,2,3) - 
13:00 Cryptic: https://puu.sh/v4DCV/823f06d0c3.png
13:00 Cryptic: 02:26:276 (2,3,4) - <spacing here, slightly less, not much
13:01 Shiirn: j
13:01 Shiirn: k
13:01 Cryptic: 02:32:311 (1,2,3,4,5) - 
13:02 Cryptic: 02:59:897 (1,3) - do the parallel slider sort of offset deal like earlier
13:03 Cryptic: 03:12:655 (3,4) - grody af overlap
13:04 Cryptic: 03:19:207 (1) - 
13:05 Cryptic: 03:27:483 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - <progression of increasing spacing should be more fluid, it just seems to get randomly significantly larger at the end
13:06 Cryptic: 03:40:931 (1,2,3,4,1) - super cancer
13:06 Shiirn: nerfed the spacing and made the final 1,2 less fucking insane
13:06 Shiirn: that's staying i like that mommy
13:09 Cryptic: 04:08:345 (3) - NC + placement
13:10 Cryptic: 04:13:862 (3) - same
13:10 Shiirn: 04:19:724 (2,1) -
13:10 Shiirn: :thonkin:
13:12 Cryptic: 04:23:345 (1,3) - <why not same slideR :(
13:12 Cryptic: 04:29:552 (1,2,3,4) - <technically all same nosie, but slider shapes are random, maybe do something similar to concepts 03:32:311 (1,2,3) - here
13:13 Cryptic: 04:30:759 (6,1) - spacing is neat too large please nerf :(
13:13 Cryptic: 04:30:931 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - I can't defeat airman and this isn't airman, please also nerf
13:14 Cryptic: and that's it.
13:14 Shiirn: for all same noise -> different pitch and gets more robotic, gets more angular
13:14 Shiirn: 04:30:759 (6,1) - think spacing is fine for proper move into chorus, can nerf a tad but feel the higher spacing is valid
13:14 Cryptic: higher spacing is valid, yes
13:14 Cryptic: just not /as/ large
13:15 Shiirn: nerfed a bit
13:16 Shiirn: re: airman uhhh nerfed a tad but some of the sizes feel fine, just made it more fluid and less constant whack-a-mole
13:16 Shiirn: updating i guess
13:16 Cryptic: thats fine
13:16 Cryptic: it was just all super large
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
diraimur
gz
great collab (rip ephy tho)
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,077 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
gratz ongaku and shiirn
mostly ongaku tho xd
saiyuri
215 posts
Joined June 2013
saiyuri
there's blood in the bg, i don't think it's safe for work
also the girl is lifting up her leg, which is common in the porn i watch. not safe for work at all
not only that, but it's a girl! that is clearly a sexualized theme in today's society
worst of all, the white hair just shows how much white privilege has permeated into today's world. definitely not safe for work at all

stay woke my friends and april fools
Luel Roseline
1,034 posts
Joined February 2014
Luel Roseline
Finally...
u got it.
09kami
829 posts
Joined August 2010
09kami
gratz
Faust
osu! Alumni
4,785 posts
Joined January 2009
Faust
oh nice
Ankanogradiel
177 posts
Joined June 2014
Ankanogradiel
amazing map.
probably one of my favourites now.
congrats <3
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