16:50 William K: Hi
16:50 *William K is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1210625 Ghost Bath - The Sleeping Fields [Hard]]
16:50 Potatoe751: hi :D
16:51 Potatoe751: that was really fast lol
16:51 William K: let's start with hard
16:51 Potatoe751: okie
16:51 William K: lol I'm farming kds :V
16:52 Potatoe751: nice xd
16:52 William K: 00:03:179 (2,2,2) - any reason why the spacing increases while there's no actual song changes?
16:53 Potatoe751: the pitch increases a little bit every time
16:53 William K: oh yea xd i didn't notice that
16:53 Potatoe751: yeah it's kind of subtle
16:54 William K: 00:11:979 (1) - I don't think a spinner would work here
16:54 William K: since the instrument at 00:02:379 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - are pretty much the same as the spinner
16:55 William K: yeah there's another holding sound but best not to do that? xd
16:55 Potatoe751: I was trying to map the hum differently
16:55 Potatoe751: would be weird to have the same pattern when theres a new sound
16:55 William K: then you could do some variation while maintaining the consistency
16:56 Potatoe751: mmk
16:56 William K: how does that sounds xD
16:56 Potatoe751: I'll try lol
16:56 Potatoe751: lemme go grab my tablet really quick, brb
16:57 William K: okie Imma mention some things while you're taking it
16:58 William K: 00:31:179 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - Actually, this's encouraged in Hards. It's a large jump that may cause reading issues as they're all even spaced.
16:58 William K: 00:35:979 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - Here too.
16:59 Potatoe751: do you mean it's discouraged?
16:59 William K: yeah xD
16:59 William K: not recommended*
17:01 Potatoe751: hmmm so it would be better if they were more randomly placed/
17:01 William K: nooo lol
17:01 Potatoe751: ??
17:01 William K: that won't fix the problem
17:01 Potatoe751: what do then D:
17:01 William K: you could use 1/2 sliders
17:02 William K: 00:31:179 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - the pattern here are mainly used for insane, not for hards
17:02 Potatoe751: that would be really inconsistent with the rest of the song though
17:02 William K: and enormous jumps are also mainly used for inconsistent
17:02 William K: oops
17:02 Potatoe751: those same types of notes are repeated through like the entire thing and I always use singles :v
17:02 William K: used for insane*
17:03 William K: 00:33:579 (1,2,3) - here
17:03 William K: 00:35:979 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - here
17:03 William K: then you should fix the inconsistency :3
17:04 Potatoe751: then the map would be 90% sliders xd
17:04 William K: 00:41:779 (4,1) - jumps are also a no-no in Hards (large one)
17:05 William K: hmm maybe?
17:05 William K: we could take a look at another hard diffs
17:05 *William K is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/391521 Suzuki Konomi - This game (TV Size) [Sekai's Hard Game]]
17:05 William K: do you have this?
17:06 Potatoe751: just got it
17:06 William K: okay, open the hard :3
17:06 *Potatoe751 is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/391521 Suzuki Konomi - This game (TV Size) [Sekai's Hard Game]]
17:06 William K: 01:10:521 (1,2,3) -
17:07 Potatoe751: 00:15:623 (2,3) -
17:07 William K: actually, it could be some jumps here
17:07 William K: but the mapper, kept it simple
17:08 William K: yup, but 00:15:623 (2,3) - are much more easier than pressing 3 notes, or even enormous jumps
17:08 Potatoe751: true true
17:08 William K: pressing many consecutive notes, with enormous jumps are a no go for Hards
17:08 Potatoe751: wait so do you want me to change all of the 3 note patterns on my hard too?
17:08 William K: lol it's completely up to you
17:09 Potatoe751: okie do you think it would be best if I did
17:09 Potatoe751: also 00:35:827 (6,1) -
17:10 William K: 00:36:235 (3) - used for the cymbals
17:10 William K: the mapper wanted to emphasize the cymbals there
17:11 Potatoe751: I was emphasizing the high notes in mine qq
17:12 William K: 00:31:379 (2) - even this?
17:12 William K: well high/not is according to the map tbh
17:12 William K: if your map has 100% high pitched piano, then are you going to make those all a single notes xD
17:13 William K: and also 00:27:379 (4,1) - the jumps may be too high for hard players
17:15 Potatoe751: ok nvm on the high notes, I was doing it on repeated notes
17:15 Potatoe751: like 00:31:179 (1,3) - are the same
17:15 Potatoe751: and 00:31:979 (5,1) -
17:15 Potatoe751: idk about 00:31:979 (5,6) -
17:16 William K: 00:31:779 (4) -
17:17 William K: lol no that's not the problem lol
17:18 Potatoe751: ?
17:18 William K: the main problem is that the Hard is too Hard for Hard players
17:18 Potatoe751: mmmmk
17:18 William K: since it's filled with large jumps
17:18 William K: and consecutive clickings (1/2 clicks)
17:20 William K: if we compare a 1/2 slider and 2 1/2 notes, the 2 1/2 notes will be harder
17:20 William K: since it requires 2 clicks
17:20 Potatoe751: yeah i realize lol
17:21 William K: and in lower diffs, such as Easy, Normals and Hards. We should keep the rhythmings pretty simple
17:22 William K: yup that's how mapping lower diffs should be
17:22 Potatoe751: mhm
17:22 William K: you could look at rankable maps, and maybe ask someone to explain it to you if you don't understand something
17:23 Potatoe751: lol I understand what you're saying
17:23 William K: nice lol I can't explain what's in my mind ;w;
17:26 William K: Maybe you could refer to
17:27 William K: [https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Ranking_Criteria Ranking Criteria] [https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Difficulty_appropriate_gameplay_elements Difficulty Spread]
17:27 William K: well yeah that's the main thing in mapping
17:27 William K: oh and
17:28 William K: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/513842
17:28 William K: some forums worth reading
17:29 Potatoe751: mmmm
17:30 William K: About the Normal, it has some inconsistent distance snapping issues
17:30 William K: and some tricky parts which shouldn't be at usual normals
17:30 Potatoe751: you mean at the beginning of the kiai?
17:30 William K: and the main problem is the same as Hard, the rhythm is too dense
17:31 William K: not only in the beginning xD
17:31 William K: 00:43:579 (3,4,1) - here too
17:31 William K: 00:23:179 (3,1) - here
17:32 William K: 00:07:179 (1) - The reversed arrow is covered by the slider head
17:32 William K: easy^
17:34 Potatoe751: ?
17:35 William K: At Easy
17:35 William K: 00:07:179 (1) - the reversed arrow is covered by the head of the slider, which is unrankable. Please change this
17:37 Potatoe751: wut, hows that unrankable
17:37 William K: https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Ranking_Criteria
17:38 Potatoe751: thanks for linking the entire page
17:38 William K: the main problem for easy is that 1/2 shouldn't be used, at this bpm
17:39 William K: xD ur welcome
17:39 Potatoe751: where does it say thats unrankable -.-
17:39 William K: there is
17:39 William K: not there lol
17:39 William K: https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Standard_Ranking_Criteria
17:39 William K: here
17:40 Potatoe751: it isn't covered when the actual note is played :|
17:40 William K: covered lol
17:41 Potatoe751: also not sure that ruleset is up to date considering is says " even the paths/ends of sliders"
17:41 William K: ofc
17:41 William K: burai sliders aren't allowed
17:41 Potatoe751: have you ever played tsubaki?
17:41 William K: where
17:42 William K: show it to me :V
17:42 *Potatoe751 is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/800237 Ocelot - TSUBAKI]
17:42 William K: btw where does the criteria said ends
17:42 Potatoe751: second bullet point in general
17:42 Potatoe751: All repeat arrows on sliders must be visible. Make sure that hitbursts (100s/300s/etc) from previous notes are not covering the repeat arrows or even the paths/ends of sliders (use the default skin to check if using hitbursts from another skin). This way, all sliders will be easily visible and playable. However, very short repeating sliders (e.g. 1/4 or 1/8 sliders, generally called "kick" sliders) only require the first repeat arrow to be visibl... (message truncated)
17:43 William K: well paths aren't allowed
17:43 William K: and ends aren't allowed too (burai sliders
17:44 Potatoe751: you mean like this
17:44 Potatoe751: 01:10:633 (1,2,3,4) -
17:44 Potatoe751: in tsubaki
17:44 William K: 00:36:714 (5,6) - if you're talking about this, the end is visible
17:44 Potatoe751: lol no
17:44 William K: 01:10:633 (1,2,3,4) - this's also visible lol
17:45 William K: well just some gimmicks
17:45 Potatoe751: 01:11:086 (4) -
17:45 Potatoe751: is visible
17:45 William K: it may be tricky, but it's visible
17:45 Potatoe751: how is that visisle
17:45 Potatoe751: literally the entire slider
17:45 Potatoe751: is cover
17:45 Potatoe751: d
17:45 Potatoe751: except two tiny little triangles
17:45 William K: nope
17:45 Potatoe751: are you high?
17:46 William K: what do you mean by high :v
17:46 Potatoe751: have you taken any mind altering substances recently
17:46 *William K is editing LeaF - Evanescent [Aspire]
17:46 William K: alright
17:46 William K: you have this?
17:46 Potatoe751: thats not submitted :v
17:47 William K: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/227126
17:47 William K: seems explaining is hard without examples
17:47 *William K is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/529285 LeaF - Evanescent]
17:47 Potatoe751: how is an aspire map going to help lol
17:47 William K: ofc
17:48 William K: we're dealing with unrankable issues, right
17:48 Potatoe751: 00:36:143 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - oh hey literally what tsubaki did
17:48 William K: yeah it should be rankable
17:48 William K: 01:58:722 (1) - this
17:48 Potatoe751: mhm
17:48 William K: take a look
17:48 Potatoe751: yeah thats a burai slider
17:49 William K: yeah
17:49 William K: the end isn't even visible when we click for the first time
17:49 Potatoe751: "make sure the hitburst from PREVIOUS NOTES are not covering the... paths/ends of sliders"
17:49 Potatoe751: literally in the rules
17:50 Potatoe751: not talking about burai
17:50 William K: ends
17:50 Potatoe751: yes
17:50 Potatoe751: in tsubaki the ends arent visible
17:50 Potatoe751: and that map is ranked
17:51 William K: let me poke someone to solve this
17:51 Potatoe751: ok
17:51 Potatoe751: also in my map
17:51 Potatoe751: 00:05:979 (4) - is completely gone
17:51 Potatoe751: before you can even click 00:07:179 (1) -
17:52 Potatoe751: also I updated hard :v
17:53 William K: surely it's so hard explaining to you lol
17:54 Potatoe751: no you're explanations are fine
17:54 Potatoe751: i just think it's wrong
17:57 *William K is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/800237 Ocelot - TSUBAKI [EX EX]]
17:57 William K: 01:10:633 (1,2,3,4) - do you think the movements are predictable?
17:58 William K: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7303011
17:59 William K: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7303017 okay this solves the problem
18:00 Potatoe751: mmk now ask him if the reverse arrow needs to be covered when the note is played
18:00 William K: it must be visible
18:00 Potatoe751: it is
18:00 William K: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7303024 this can't be ranked either
18:00 Potatoe751: when the note it played
18:00 Potatoe751: in my map
18:01 Potatoe751: there is literally nothing covering it
18:01 Potatoe751: https://puu.sh/tZEEQ/c535ba421e.jpg
18:02 William K: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7303046 it's completely covered
18:03 Potatoe751: not when it's played, no
18:03 William K: yeah it is @_@
18:03 William K: oh about the tsubaki, direct yourself to the forum. There're many issues talked there
18:03 Potatoe751: yes i realize
18:04 Potatoe751: and the moment you click the circle in my map
18:04 Potatoe751: it is no longer being covered
18:04 William K: for example
18:04 William K: if you play
18:04 William K: do you predict the next movement?
18:04 Potatoe751: the slider before it goes away before 7:079
18:05 Potatoe751: which is an entire 1/4 before it
18:05 William K: what if the reversed is cover? doesn't the prediction of yours be useless
18:06 Potatoe751: it isn't tho
18:06 Potatoe751: by the time you actually play the note
18:06 Potatoe751: it is not covered
18:07 William K: okay then
18:07 William K: do you find any ranked maps with their 1/2 reversed slider covered?
18:08 William K: it's mentioned in many mods
18:08 Potatoe751: off the top of my head no
18:08 Potatoe751: but mine
18:08 Potatoe751: is not covered
18:09 Potatoe751: when the note is played
18:09 William K: hmm
18:09 William K: you may ask a BN irc
18:09 William K: whether it's covered or not