It should be a rule to map the music lol.Okorin wrote:
[*]The following guidelines had their wording changed:
- All circles and slider heads should be snapped to distinct sounds in the music.
It should be a rule to map the music lol.Okorin wrote:
[*]The following guidelines had their wording changed:
- All circles and slider heads should be snapped to distinct sounds in the music.
Not necessarily. There are some cases when people put a triplet for emphasis, or to represent a trembling sound, which is not really a distinct sound.Kin wrote:
It should be a rule to map the music lol.Okorin wrote:
[*]The following guidelines had their wording changed:
- All circles and slider heads should be snapped to distinct sounds in the music.
and other case just to put circle on a no existant beat/sound.Doyak wrote:
Not necessarily. There are some cases when people put a triplet for emphasis, or to represent a trembling sound, which is not really a distinct sound.
The trembling sound is fine as long as it is easily understandable but dumb ghost triplets are not. Where there is no beat in the music there's not a single reason to put a clickable object imoDoyak wrote:
Not necessarily. There are some cases when people put a triplet for emphasis, or to represent a trembling sound, which is not really a sound.
"The end of a spinner (or even the entire spinner), the sliding sound of a slider, and the end of a slider can be silent. While hitsounds must be audible, these elements are not actively clicked and therefore do not always need feedback."You can add slider ticks into that list as well.
Guidelines are to be treated as rules unless you can exhaust all arguments against your choices.J1NX1337 wrote:
It's not a requirement, just a guideline.
J1NX1337 wrote:
The baseline of intuitiviness lies in the difficulty of the map which is aimed at a specific part of the playerbase separated by skill, so I don't think it's recommended to pull off stuff like completely overlapping sliders on Hards for example.
Okorin wrote:
Stacking and readability limitations are specific to certain difflevels and will be handled there.
The point being is: What's unreadable to you might be perfectly fine to other people around your skill level or around the level of the target audience of the map. Reading in itself is a skill too and limiting reading challenges for the sake of what some people find "more enjoyable" doesn't make the most sense to me.J1NX1337 wrote:
Why should the maps be intuitive to play? Because it reduces frustration and makes them generally more enjoyable to play. I'm not saying every map has to be like this and I'm sure there's people who enjoy reading challenges and mappers who like to use a complex style, but if you have a chance to make your map much easier to read by adding a new combo for example, I think that should be recommended. I don't think most people like breaking combo like 3/4ths into the song on their first playthrough because something was completely unexpected and unreadable. And if they do, I think the mapper should have to explain why they're doing this and why it would benefit their map more, so I see it as a possible guideline.
Let's say it like this: You are mapping for the default experience. If someone goes to your map and decides "I want to play this with a mod", then they're modifying the map from its default experience and addressing things in such a setting for a mod whose behaviour can be modified (see the semi-recent change to the way hidden handles sliders which makes a few things a lot easier to comprehend) and as such it shouldn't require a map that is not passable on HR to be disqualified and a change enforced. People would only notice this behaviour if HR plays are reasonable for a human to begin with.J1NX1337 wrote:
Also I don't care if you disagree on this, but yes I think all maps should at least be passable on Hard Rock. The mods are kind of a big part of the game too and I don't see why they shouldn't be taken into account when mapping.
And this is the presumed disagreement. Why aren't you mapping for the largest audience possible? In addition, why should you be allowed to map a theoretical score and make it impossible to attain?Okorin wrote:
Let's say it like this: You are mapping for the default experience.
Okorin wrote:
- Buzz sliders must have appropriate delay before the next note.
It's the mapper's decision which audience they want to map for, some want to map for the largest audience possible, which they are still free to do, but some don't want to make the original map suboptimal just so it can be played with every mod (which, as has already been stated multiple times, can be changed - not just visually like HD, score-wipes are still a possibility)those wrote:
And this is the presumed disagreement. Why aren't you mapping for the largest audience possible? In addition, why should you be allowed to map a theoretical score and make it impossible to attain?Okorin wrote:
Let's say it like this: You are mapping for the default experience.
I'm siding with Okirin's decision on not to impose the rule. Let the mapper decide whether he/she wants the map to be mod friendly or not. The point of the ranking criteria (as I understand it) is to disallow shit maps that would be too cringe to play otherwise to be ranked, not to force making maps for a wide demographic.J1NX1337 wrote:
Also I don't care if you disagree on this, but yes I think all maps should at least be passable on Hard Rock. The mods are kind of a big part of the game too and I don't see why they shouldn't be taken into account when mapping.
All reverse arrows on sliders must be visible, excluding short reversing sliders. Covering up slider reverses can result in sliders being ambiguous to read. Short reversing sliders only require the first reverse to be visible, since the other reverses are expected. Test play your map to confirm if reverse arrows are visible.might want to say something like using default skin as a guideline for that, because some skins have really massive hitbursts
The end of a spinner (or even the entire spinner), the sliding sound of a slider, and the end of a slider can be silent. While hitsounds must be audible, these elements are not actively clicked and therefore do not always need feedback.are we allowed to silence both slider slide and ticks now?
Kibbleru wrote:
The end of a spinner (or even the entire spinner), the sliding sound of a slider, and the end of a slider can be silent. While hitsounds must be audible, these elements are not actively clicked and therefore do not always need feedback.are we allowed to silence both slider slide and ticks now?
a guideline wrote:
Avoid silencing both slider ticks and slider slides together. Low volume or blending sound samples are similarly discouraged when inaudible. If a slider tick does not snap to a distinct sound, it can be inaudible.
Yeah.Kibbleru wrote:
so its only a guideline now? as rather to being fully unrankable?
No. IIRC, it was decided that it needs to be at least FCable no mod to be rankable.bulli wrote:
What do you think about the possibility to pass a map (with every mod)?
I mean something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/21928
Even Auto would fail this map in terms of HP gauge.
I somewhat second this,considering all maps should be able to be played AND completed using ANY mods. I do get that Hard Rock is something that players need to manually turn on to play,and therefore there isn't a need to force the player to play it. But if a map is not do-able with one of the mods on,whats the point of it(the mod) being available to select?bulli wrote:
I realize that I didn't really state my point.
This map is fcable no mod, but cannot be passed with hr (even if you fc' it til the last spinner, you will fail afterwards).
Do we want that every ranked map is passable with hr? Do we want that as a part of the ranking criteria?