The reason you can (probably) never become a pro at osu

Jukkii

Joined October 2015

Jukkii 2016-09-25T18:42:40+00:00

well yes technically according to OP's logic you can reach the top by hard work alone, however that amount of work is alot, like alot.
but talent does exist, let me prove the existence of what i like to call the "talent multiplier"
lets use a real-life situation and a mathematical sentence (is that the correct term?)
in a test, i got a better score than a certain person. i myself did not study for the test at home and such my effort put in was simply what i did during class. the other person also attended class in the same way and thus either put in as much or more effort than me (by studying at home he put in more effort than me).
my effort put in times my talent multiplier is greater that then other persons effort times his/her talent multiplier. this means that there must be a talent multiplier and that my talent multiplier is greater than his/her. i know for sure that he/she either put in as much or more effort than me.
that proves that there must be a talent multiplier.
thus i come to the conclusion that if your talent is a multiplier to the amount of effort you put in. and as such if you put in 0 effort, you do not achieve anything, as anything multiplied by 0 is 0.

-Makishima S-

2,434 posts

Joined August 2013

-Makishima S- 2016-09-25T19:14:20+00:00

lets use a real-life situation and a mathematical sentence (is that the correct term?)
in a test, i got a better score than a certain person. i myself did not study for the test at home and such my effort put in was simply what i did during class. the other person also attended class in the same way and thus either put in as much or more effort than me (by studying at home he put in more effort than me).
my effort put in times my talent multiplier is greater that then other persons effort times his/her talent multiplier. this means that there must be a talent multiplier and that my talent multiplier is greater than his/her. i know for sure that he/she either put in as much or more effort than me.
that proves that there must be a talent multiplier.
thus i come to the conclusion that if your talent is a mu

Yes, i agree but that doesn't mean you cannot reach the very top by hard work what OP is trying to say and discourage everyone around.

My situation from real life - I... hate physics, i was always bad at it in school, i never understanded all this bs around it (despite being exeptional at math). In university, we had physics, you don't imagine how scared i was about exams. While my friend who was just taking tasks and doing them without any problem, i sacrificed TONS, like TONS of hours to study, used coach to teach me more, this one friend was also helping me to get into some topics, while my friend was spending time in party, i was sitting and learning, before lessons while my friends was chitchatting, i was sitting in corner and studying. It ended up i made up exam on 98/100 points while my talented at physics friend made it at 97/100. I cannot say - it was HUGE sacrifice of time what talented person spend doing something else, but i don't regret it at all since till this day i remember everything what i learned. It just proves that my excessive amount of work, discipline, determination and sacrifice, you can make it to the very top. It cost you A LOT, but it's possible. You don't need to be talented to be in pro tier activity ladder.

"Overall, I think people tend to reveal their true selves when they step into an avatar. As I said earlier, they probably feel some sense of freedom. But freedom easily gained quickly turns into a false sense of omnipotence."

Jukkii

596 posts

Joined October 2015

Jukkii 2016-09-25T19:22:07+00:00

I think i did say you can reach the top with only hard work. However the case in osu is that the people at the top are also putting in alot of effort and due to their talent multipliers theyw went higher than others. All high ranked players worked hard.

chainpullz

2,334 posts

Joined June 2013

chainpullz 2016-09-25T20:28:11+00:00

Why are we even equating physical differences to "talent"? Any attempt at a formal definition of talent completely ignores this for very good reason. It's a degenerate argument and goes completely against the spirit of the debate. Of course a cripple won't be able to play basketball in the same way MJ will be able to.

A person who's had all their arms and legs amputated simply won't be capable of playing osu in the same way as cookiezi (ignoring the possibility of prosthetic limbs because the use of them could arguably considered to be cheating anyways). If I agreed in the existence of talent (playing devil's advocate here) I would argue that person might still be more talented than cookiezi. They could be infinitely more talented than cookiezi, capable of obtaining rank 1 in less than 1k plays but simply incapable of applying this talent due to the loss of limbs. By your arguments for talent this person is a worthless untalented PoS which completely contradicts the notion of talent to begin with.

Since it seemed to fly over people's heads at the start of this debate, I wasn't ever arguing against certain players improving faster than certain other players. Talent is not even necessary for this and you seem to not understand this nuance of the talent debate. If you've ever worked with machine learning you'd understand how non-trivial concepts as simple as "objects" are to learn. There are many many layers of abstraction that pure sensory data passes through before even simple concepts are extracted. You don't even need to play osu! to get a head start on building and reinforcing the necessary layers. It's a pretty silly and obvious example but consider top mania players who have been playing mania-like games for years. They will tend to improve at osu much faster than people who have never touched a rhythm game in their life. The nuance here and reason this example isn't the best is that there are things completely unrelated to rhythm games that you might never think of that contribute to skills you never realize are used in a rhythm game (similar to what I brought up when talking to winber1 earlier). When defining talent I would certainly want to avoid this sort of "talent" as it certainly isn't something you are just born with.

On top of that, sensory data obtained earlier on in the learning process influences how connections are made and reinforced much more than data obtained later. When people talk "environment" in debates on nature vs. nurture they very often are looking at environments of the children after they have exited the womb. There is very little known about brain development that occurs during the various stages of development inside the womb and the impact it can have later in life. Reviews of these studies almost always end by concluding that studies in no way collect sufficient quality of information to support concrete conclusions for either side. While it's been determined that actual practice doesn't account for more than about 30% of what goes into things like chess the other 70% is completely undetermined (ie. could be environmental things, could be genetic things, etc.). These numbers are very specific to chess and are purely reasonable estimates backed by survey based studies.

I think the issue with this thread is that we are talking about something completely different from talent. Instead of talent we are talking about one's foundation and potential to improve which, if "talent" exists, would take "talent" into account among other things. It would also include many other variables that were possibly completely out of your control (ie. environment starting from conception up until the point where you could actually choose your own environment) and also the things that are within your control (choosing to avoid anything to do with rhythm games up until now). Most of the evidence provided in this thread has also been completely anecdotal (one of the main issues plaguing the debate over the existence of talent) and contributing stories of "I didn't study and my friend did but I still did better" isn't helpful because it doesn't take into account the insurmountable number of other factors that could have allowed for this occurrence.

If you guys want to instead bicker over this then go ahead but I don't really see a point when like half of the top 1000 (same for top 100) is inactive and/or simply doesn't care about farming to their true potential. As shortpotato has pointed out, if your only goal is like top 100 or something all it takes is the right mindset and playing several hours every single day without many breaks for RL stuff. I really don't think many people give a shit that it took rrtyui 3000 plays to SS the big black when cookiezi fc'd it in 41 because an SS on big black is impressive as fuck regardless. The same applies to high rank and most accomplishments in life.

I just want to finish by saying that while I don't necessarily agree with winber's argument we have both pointed out that there really is not enough data obtained with a sufficient amount of scientific/mathematical rigor to actually support either side of the debate at the moment (most experts in this field will cede this much and call for people to set aside their differences to collect better data in order to further the debate). Until sufficiently rigorous data is collected there is no point in further argument with him so it is more efficient to agree to disagree until then.

Edit: Oh, quick reminder, correlation does not imply causation. Useful to know for all sides of this argument.

I'm slow like a turtle. Plz no bully, I hide in my rock hard shell.

Modding Queue

-Makishima S-

2,434 posts

Joined August 2013

-Makishima S- 2016-09-25T21:09:42+00:00

Amen!

"Overall, I think people tend to reveal their true selves when they step into an avatar. As I said earlier, they probably feel some sense of freedom. But freedom easily gained quickly turns into a false sense of omnipotence."

Nameless

517 posts

Joined April 2014

Nameless 2016-09-25T23:53:20+00:00

I found a fix for untalented players

Caput Mortuum

1,854 posts

Joined March 2016

Caput Mortuum 2016-09-25T23:59:39+00:00

chainpullz wrote:
Why are we even equating physical differences to "talent"?.

Because it IS talent, along with mental capabilities. With good reaction time, tapping skills, stamina, hand-to-eye coordination, finger independence (for mania/taiko), memory etc. you get "talent". Of course you can improve this, but alot of people have a hard time of memorizing something. I don't think someone as slow as slowpoke can even play this game.

twitter • pixiv

winber1

4,520 posts

Joined February 2010

winber1 2016-09-26T00:55:18+00:00

Mein Gauche wrote:
chainpullz wrote:
Why are we even equating physical differences to "talent"?.
Because it IS talent, along with mental capabilities. I don't think someone as slow as slowpoke can even play this game.
I will read the rest later.

to be honest, this argument can be applied to mentality as well. scientifically, our brains are physically not the same; they are wired different, and neurons are connected differently which will in turn cause different mental capabilities. In a sense, you can actually even consider mental capacity a sort of physical phenomena. of course, there is still much to learn about how the brain works, but you can't deny that our brains are not exactly the same physically. Even one less neuron, one less atom technically can count as a difference.

personally, i'd say talent is an innate advantage given to someone by some way or another, whether by chance or not. however, innate advantage can be really anything. philosophically you can divide mental and physical capacity, but at a certain point you still need to describe what the cut off point between mind and body is before even attacking the concept of talent as it pertains to physical or mental ability.

man, i don't even care anymore, people should just believe what they want and play more.

my code doesn't work still

Caput Mortuum

1,854 posts

Joined March 2016

Caput Mortuum 2016-09-26T00:57:40+00:00

Edited the post.

But yeah, people should just play more instead of thinking about this talent bs.

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shortpotato

312 posts

Joined December 2011

shortpotato 2016-09-26T01:05:15+00:00

OP never said quit the game if you're untalented

There's many ways to enjoy the game other than striving to be the top 10-100 players in the game

I still dont know why people are arguing natural talent doesn't exist, (looking at u Taiga~) it's like saying all people are born equal. I also don't know why you're expressing such anger and emotion, even bringing ur mate Mahogany into this mess: maybe something in this thread hit a soft spot?

If you didn't know the best way to have a proper discussion is to acknowledge both sides of the argument, but by presenting your argument that "talent doesn't exist - everything I got is due to hard work" in addition to telling Railey to kill himself, and other personal insults you come across as ignorant and bigoted

tl;dr if you disagree with OP attack his points instead of his person? And don't misrepresent his argument to make it easier to attack (i.e quit the game if you're untalented) - thats a strawman

_handholding

3,109 posts

Joined April 2014

_handholding 2016-09-26T02:13:41+00:00

shortpotato wrote:
OP never said quit the game if you're untalented

shortpotato wrote:
tl;dr if you disagree with OP attack his points instead of his person? And don't misrepresent his argument to make it easier to attack (i.e quit the game if you're untalented) - thats a strawman

I wonder how taiga would respond to this after he called Railey a retard, salty, crybaby and saying how he should be permanently banned. It's also funny how he then agreed with Railey's notion (I'm sure he still isn't aware that he did) xd

If I start getting in heated arguments in a rhythm game forum and produce walls and walls of text at the age of 30, I'd ask someone to shoot me

winber1

4,520 posts

Joined February 2010

winber1 2016-09-26T02:28:03+00:00

let's just go back to shitposting.

hey guys i'm gay

my code doesn't work still

-Makishima S-

2,434 posts

Joined August 2013

-Makishima S- 2016-09-26T02:38:39+00:00

I wonder how taiga would respond to this after he called Railey a retard, salty, crybaby and saying how he should be permanently banned. It's also funny how he then agreed with Railey's notion (I'm sure he still isn't aware that he did) xd

I never agreed with this "untalented" shitter.

And i still have a lot of popcorn, this topic is essence of dual stylus idiot OP crying over being bad at some pixels

For me real life hard work > "talent" Eifel Tower size list than his imaginary bullshit from his sick empty head.

hey guys i'm gay

wank wank wank dicks dicks dicks

"Overall, I think people tend to reveal their true selves when they step into an avatar. As I said earlier, they probably feel some sense of freedom. But freedom easily gained quickly turns into a false sense of omnipotence."

Boomdopew

29 posts

Joined August 2013

Boomdopew 2016-09-26T02:50:40+00:00

Kisses wrote:
If I start getting in heated arguments in a rhythm game forum and produce walls and walls of text at the age of 30, I'd ask someone to shoot me

Even as I type my poor opinions that are horribly flawed, I still feel sad to do so. Ain't gonna bring age into this but having a ballistic reaction(not talking about you Kisses(I had to say this to prevent any wrong conflict)), in a forum is pretty sad.

I Give Up

1,648 posts

Joined January 2014

I Give Up 2016-09-26T03:26:04+00:00

winber1 wrote:
useless thread

osu! Top Mouse Player List

ithgyu

468 posts

Joined October 2014

ithgyu 2016-09-26T04:21:52+00:00

You spent a fraction of the time playing this game that I have, You have likely never truly examined your play, determined your flaws and worked on them. You have likely never spent hours upon hours playing in ways that are entirely enjoyable all in order to get better. Talent exists, you would have to be retarded to deny that, but anyone who blames talent before working many times harder than everyone else can fuck off. If you want to beat someone who has talent and works hard, work harder, else it becomes clear that you never really wanted to beat them in the first place, all you really wanted was to beat them on your own terms, without actually having to work hard.

nzbasic

10 posts

Joined September 2016

nzbasic 2016-09-26T09:02:26+00:00

I agree with your post, but keeping people determined that they can improve (ignorance is bliss argument) works a lot better than telling people that they could never improve.

-Makishima S-

2,434 posts

Joined August 2013

-Makishima S- 2016-09-26T09:47:43+00:00

nzbasic wrote:
I agree with your post, but keeping people determined that they can improve (ignorance is bliss argument) works a lot better than telling people that they could never improve.

Ahahahahahahaha xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Bro, stop posting when you didn't even touched real maps, you don't even know what means hard work in osu so pls xxxxxxxxxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Play more

"Overall, I think people tend to reveal their true selves when they step into an avatar. As I said earlier, they probably feel some sense of freedom. But freedom easily gained quickly turns into a false sense of omnipotence."

Jesper

38 posts

Joined October 2015

Jesper 2016-09-26T10:02:48+00:00

inb4 osu has a million dollard price pool.

astelios

60 posts

Joined June 2013

astelios 2016-09-26T10:34:58+00:00

Pls.
Talent doesn't exist.
Do u still believe in Santa?

Edit: just read the entire post. NVM, 5 years old kid logic.
BUT, I think AGE (I'm "old") does impact on the ranking/pp.
I've seen kids half my age that started to play the game stream way too faster than me

But who knows ... I'm not playing anymore

o/

Last edited by astelios 2016-09-26T10:58:21+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

Jukkii

596 posts

Joined October 2015

Jukkii 2016-09-26T10:49:45+00:00

astelios wrote:
Pls.
Talent doesn't exist.
Do u still believe in Santa?

I cant tell if youre joking or very stupid.

LoliPantsu

311 posts

Joined January 2015

LoliPantsu 2016-09-26T10:59:36+00:00

https://osu.ppy.sh/u/7260014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljUQwT6854g&feature=share <-- My quality osu! cover

astelios

60 posts

Joined June 2013

astelios 2016-09-26T11:09:11+00:00

-Jukke- wrote:
I cant tell if youre joking or very stupid.

Oh ... I forgot what it was like over here ...
Osu forum quality level TO THE MAX!

Bye forum o/

ithgyu

468 posts

Joined October 2014

ithgyu 2016-09-26T11:20:26+00:00

LoliPantsu wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/7260014

He has a very good work ethic, its disgusting that people dismiss this as nothing but talent when they wont even put a fraction of that work ethic in. If you actually believe the crap in this thread, then yeah, you just never had the mindset required to go far in this game.

Raiden

osu! Alumni

2,419 posts

Joined January 2013

Raiden 2016-09-26T11:38:49+00:00

astelios wrote:
Pls.
Talent doesn't exist.
Do u still believe in Santa?

Edit: just read the entire post. NVM, 5 years old kid logic.
BUT, I think AGE (I'm "old") does impact on the ranking/pp.
I've seen kids half my age that started to play the game stream way too faster than me
But who knows ... I'm not playing anymore
o/

Younger people learn stuff/skills way faster due to a phenomenon named "neuroplasticity" which decays at higher age, and instead we develop more the rational part of the brain as we age. That's why most top players are around the age of 16-18. Yet they started playing at the age of maybe 12-13, in which the brain is still developing in terms of both abstract thinking and physical skills.

Taiko Ranking Criteria || Taiko BNG/QAT list

Risa

435 posts

Joined January 2014

Risa 2016-09-26T11:39:40+00:00

Still not a good enough reason to quit kms

......

DeathHydra

651 posts

Joined November 2015

DeathHydra 2016-09-26T11:49:14+00:00

CMIIW, but long story short,
1. Talent exists.
2. Talent + hard work >> hard work only, assuming that the amount of hard work is the same.
3. Hard work can beat talent without hard work.
4. You can become high-ranked just with hard work alone, but the effort needed is higher compared to those who have talent.

Aren't these the point of this thread? What are we even arguing about?

And also, some people (including OP, I guess) are just not interested in getting to the top, probably because they don't have the time or something. That's why Railey keeps saying that he/she won't make it to the top.

LoliPantsu

311 posts

Joined January 2015

LoliPantsu 2016-09-26T11:56:28+00:00

ithgyu wrote:
LoliPantsu wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/7260014
He has a very good work ethic, its disgusting that people dismiss this as nothing but talent when they wont even put a fraction of that work ethic in. If you actually believe the crap in this thread, then yeah, you just never had the mindset required to go far in this game.

could you elaborate on good work ethic, not that im doubting you or anything but for my own use

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljUQwT6854g&feature=share <-- My quality osu! cover

Railey2

512 posts

Joined February 2015

Topic Starter

Railey2 2016-09-26T12:38:27+00:00

LoliPantsu wrote:
ithgyu wrote:
He has a very good work ethic, its disgusting that people dismiss this as nothing but talent when they wont even put a fraction of that work ethic in. If you actually believe the crap in this thread, then yeah, you just never had the mindset required to go far in this game.
could you elaborate on good work ethic, not that im doubting you or anything but for my own use

What he is saying is: The reason you didn't make it beyond 5k pp even though you played so much is, because your work ethic sucks.

Factors outside of our control like talent aren't a thing and only used to discredit people. So now I'm going to discredit your work by saying that you just didn't try hard enough, even though you arguably tried harder already (more playtime).

That's the thing. If you deny the existence of talent, you are automatically discrediting the people that are not talented, by blaming them directly for their lack of success. It's hilarious how ithgyu keeps complaining about people discrediting his friend, when he does the same by implication to the majority of the playerbase. The irony is probably lost on him.

DeathAdderz wrote:
CMIIW, but long story short,
1. Talent exists.
2. Talent + hard work >> hard work only, assuming that the amount of hard work is the same.
3. Hard work can beat talent without hard work.
4. You can become high-ranked just with hard work alone, but the effort needed is higher compared to those who have talent.

Aren't these the point of this thread? What are we even arguing about?

And also, some people (including OP, I guess) are just not interested in getting to the top, probably because they don't have the time or something. That's why Railey keeps saying that he/she won't make it to the top.

Close but not quite. What I am saying is, that their rate of improvement is so much faster, that it is humanly impossible to catch up to them with just hard work alone.

If I have the ability to theoretically make it, is a question that is never going to be answered, but I will claim that people like taiga or chainpullz (who spent even more time than me, achieving visibly less), are NEVER going to make it, no matter how much they work.

Last edited by Railey2 2016-09-26T13:16:16+00:00, edited 3 times in total.

Sayorie

975 posts

Joined December 2014

Sayorie 2016-09-26T12:39:48+00:00

I haven't visited here for a few days and I get to see drama the moment I get back. This is quite amusing.

RSI and TICS HIATUS LMAO

kids, don't joke about rsi, it's not cool to have it, it doesn't inflate your e-peen, just makes you look retarded for being proud of it

CLAIMING

Caput Mortuum

1,854 posts

Joined March 2016

Caput Mortuum 2016-09-26T13:14:52+00:00

[Taiga] wrote:
nzbasic wrote:
I agree with your post, but keeping people determined that they can improve (ignorance is bliss argument) works a lot better than telling people that they could never improve.

Ahahahahahahaha xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Bro, stop posting when you didn't even touched real maps, you don't even know what means hard work in osu so pls xxxxxxxxxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Play more

Lmao he didn't even said anything about osu. Also where are the moderators?

Be nice. Harassment or other antagonism has no place within the osu! community. Continual violation of this rule may result in the loss of ability to communicate with other users permanently.

Personal attacks are frowned upon. Criticism of all kinds is welcome and encouraged, but attacking other users personally is not allowed. If you cannot prove your point without such tactics, your point is not worth posting.

edit: seems like he already got it.

Last edited by Caput Mortuum 2016-09-26T14:50:37+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Sayorie

975 posts

Joined December 2014

Sayorie 2016-09-26T13:20:22+00:00

For a serious post, I'll give some insight and comments on your original post.

Railey2 wrote:
Talent is very elusive and hard to measure, but there is a simple way to do it.
Think of talent as the thing that caused the difference in skill between two players, that put the same amount of effort into the game. If we think of it like this, we can measure it just fine, because playcount is a decent approximation for effort (hitcount is even better, to be seen on peoples profiles), and pp is a decent approximation for skill. If someone gets more skilled with less effort, we can call them talented.

In the first place, I hate the word talent, because it puts people on a pedestal. There is no clear line between talented and talentless. Everyone does things better than others, with varying degree.
Since you compared two players from each other, your definition of 'talent' comes down to being completely relative and only between the two. If you include the whole playerbase to determine who's talented and who's not, you won't see it as two distinct categories between 'talented' and 'talentless'. You would see it as an ever growing slope of people in order of 'natural skill for the game', thus making the line for 'talent' to not exist at all.

My point? There is no simple way to measure talent.

Railey2 wrote:

Green would be an example of a talented player (lower playcount than everyone around him).
Red is an example of an untalented player (higher playcount than everyone around him).

This one pisses me off the most. You could at least censor the name, you know? The fact that you explicitly called Rayne as untalented was totally uncalled for. That's just completely rude.

Railey2 wrote:
Keep in mind that "talented" is a relative term, which means that it only becomes meaningful in comparison. We call red untalented, because he is less talented than the reference group, other people around rank 5k.
If we went back in time and checked how red was doing when he only had 1k pp, we may have found that red was a relatively talented player.

That is why you can't put 'talent' as a label to determine if you can become pro or not. Fuck off.

Railey2 wrote:
So, why is this relevant?

Simply put: As soon as you find yourself in the "untalented-bracket", it is time to bury your dream of becoming a top-player. This is particularly true if you get there early.
The top-players became top-players through hard work, but they were also very talented. You will find nobody in the top100 who isn't extremely talented, and the overwhelming majority worked very hard in addition to that. As a result, you will never catch up to them, if you are "just" hard working.
Hard work may beat talent, but it can't beat talent and hard work. The top, has both.

So how did you determine that everyone in the top 100 is extremely talented? Holy fucking shit. If that's your subjective opinion, then everyone might as well be talented too, subjectively.

Railey2 wrote:
But if you find yourself in the "average-bracket", or possibly even in the "talented-bracket", go ahead and play more. See how long your talent lasts. As soon as it runs out, you know that you are close to approaching your limit as a competitive player.
Great effort will get you far, but if you lack talent, it will never get you to the top.

Once again, you're treating talent as a 'perk' or a 'unique blessing' similar in video games. You

Railey2 wrote:
Lastly, a word for people that lack talent.

Change your goals. Osu can be an extremely fun game, especially without the pressure of playing for ranks. Discover new music, play with friends, play interesting maps. It's all about what you make of it. A more talented player once said "plz enjoy game", and this is good advice regardless of how talented you are. Settle for less, but enjoy it all the way.

Good luck to everyone! It's a rocky road that leads to the top100. Let's hope that you have the talent to make it there.

exceptions
SPOILER
There are cases where people put effort into the game in wrong ways, such as only playing for SS. In that case, their lack of success is not necessarily a result of them lacking talent, but rather a result of a misapplication of effort. It can be hard to tell the two apart sometimes, but what I wrote above still holds true either way.

Sorry, I already stopped trying to reason with this. Say what you want to say, I'm not stopping you.
Nevertheless, you're doing a pretty good job at discouraging a shit ton of players here.
Hope it makes you sleep at night.

RSI and TICS HIATUS LMAO

kids, don't joke about rsi, it's not cool to have it, it doesn't inflate your e-peen, just makes you look retarded for being proud of it

CLAIMING

Xyrus_old_1

407 posts

Joined October 2015

Xyrus_old_1 2016-09-26T15:05:00+00:00

Arthraxium wrote:
I haven't visited here for a few days and I get to see drama the moment I get back. This is quite amusing.

If only Gambler was here with Popcorn.

Rilene

2,105 posts

Joined April 2014

Rilene 2016-09-26T15:10:56+00:00

Well, talent does obviously exist, at least as a skill improvement multiplier.
But I feel like the way the main postworded looks discouraring to some people, at least not me.

Nameless

517 posts

Joined April 2014

Nameless 2016-09-26T15:46:29+00:00

Xyrus wrote:
If only Gambler was here with Popcorn.

No worries, I'll pass around the popcorn
just make sure taiga gets sweet rather than salty because the bitch is already salty enough

_handholding

3,109 posts

Joined April 2014

_handholding 2016-09-26T15:49:31+00:00

by taiga's logic everyone can be the next ronaldo with hard work xd

-Makishima S-

2,434 posts

Joined August 2013

-Makishima S- 2016-09-26T15:51:10+00:00

Idc anymore, give some popcorn.

Just realized that talking to brick wall is more constructive than trying to show OP how much toxicity spread his initial post and how big slpa with stinky shit into face of every single player it is.

Whatever for me, gib some popcorn.

"Overall, I think people tend to reveal their true selves when they step into an avatar. As I said earlier, they probably feel some sense of freedom. But freedom easily gained quickly turns into a false sense of omnipotence."

Nameless

517 posts

Joined April 2014

Nameless 2016-09-26T16:00:01+00:00

Taiga I think you should get a job
anything that'll get you off this forum will be great

Yuudachi-kun

5,432 posts

Joined August 2014

Yuudachi-kun 2016-09-26T16:22:27+00:00

I didn't read this thread but you're all nerds