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Difficulty Spread of Otokaze - Karen

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Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Topic Starter
Doyak
Otokaze - Karen

I brought this up on osu! nominators Discord server and got some opinions from Wafu and Bonsai, but I'd like to see how others would think. Currently the mapset is in NHI spread, with the Normal being the lowest difficulty of the set. As it's a double-bpm map on 92bpm, 1/2s are used like 1/1s and 1/4s are used like 1/2s on 184bpm.

Normal only used maximum of 1/2 beats to be beginner-friendly. But if you look at Hard diff, it's filled with 1/4 beats without much of rests. This makes me concerned about the spread, as it's almost double density than Normal, and I wonder if players of all levels of experience are able to enjoy maps of the songs they love (quoted from RC) with this kind of gap. Some newbies can easily FC Normal, but can't even struggle for some seconds on Hard diff if it has a long chain of 1/4s like this.

Quoting some discussion with Wafu and Bonsai on Discord:

Bonsai wrote:

I don't have any concern about Normal-Hard being too big of a gap, they use approximately an equal amount of 1/2s and 1/4s respectively which is quite a good way to do spread imo, it's not always possible to only use few of them while still having homogenuous rhythms

Wafu wrote:

You still need to consider how big step that is. For example, having a 1/2 only hard doesn't allow you to make a deathstream insane just because it's 1/4, the hard still needs some hint for 1/4, at least some triplets and so on. Can't the normal in this mapset have some triplets consisting of 1/4 to make the transition to constant 1/4 easier?
Along with that, another concern is that Normal has no 1/1 breaks for a very long time, and this makes me wonder if this would be appropriate for the easiest difficulty of the set. Considering these, I can think of two solutions:
  1. 1. Make an Easy diff, and nerf Hard quite a lot.
  2. 2. Put some breaks here and there on Normal diff, and add an Advanced diff.
One another concern is whether 00:52:349 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - 00:57:567 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - are readable for a Hard diff, I think that should be fixed but idk how others would think.

Waiting for some opinions from anyone interested in helping with it. Any other kind of concerns regarding the set are welcome too.
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Topic Starter
Doyak
I forgot another thing that bothers me. 02:38:001 - This part of Hard is much denser than Insane, and what do you think about this? It's not just one pattern, but a whole part is like that.
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
well, since its 92 bpm, it would effectively be 184 bpm if mapped correctly, so the normal SHOULD have mostly 1/2 (translated to 1/1) rhythms with several 1/4 rhythms (1/2)

so u dont have to worry about the normal having too many 1/2

a general hard diff should typically be built around 1/2 rhythms (which this case, simce the bpm is halved, would be 1/4)

so id probably buff normal if necessary (depending on the difficulty of the insane diff)
HappyRocket88
4,322 posts
Joined May 2014
HappyRocket88
Hi, this isn only my opinion but I don't think boosting a difficulty is the most ideal solution for this "spread" issue. I'd say adding some 1/4 objects would make a good transition with how the hard is mapped consistently to 1/4 beats.

Best success with this map! :3
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Topic Starter
Doyak

Kibbleru wrote:

well, since its 92 bpm, it would effectively be 184 bpm if mapped correctly, so the normal SHOULD have mostly 1/2 (translated to 1/1) rhythms with several 1/4 rhythms (1/2)

so u dont have to worry about the normal having too many 1/2

a general hard diff should typically be built around 1/2 rhythms (which this case, simce the bpm is halved, would be 1/4)

so id probably buff normal if necessary (depending on the difficulty of the insane diff)
What we also should consider about is if "Normal diff is beginner-friendly", not just "if this fits as a Normal". Some use of 1/4s is fine, but

Bonsai wrote:

I'd rather be concerned about the Normal having not a single empty 1/1-gap for more than a minute, that doesn't seem very beginner-friendly to me
I agree with this. 1/1 spam for more than a minute without any rests is pretty harsh to be beginner-friendly. Also

Bonsai wrote:

yeah that would probably be the easiest way, because inserting 1/4s into the current Normal would basically need it all to be remapped anyways
This also makes problem, because the whole Normal is already 'structured' in using 1/2 gaps only, so buffing this even a little would require a lot of re-construction of the map. So that's why I suggest to map another diff instead.
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
u also need to consider the gap between hard > insane.

remember, we are only concerned whether the spread is LINEAR, and not whether the gap between diffs is too large.
everybody seems to forget this
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Topic Starter
Doyak
We still can't make EHX spread everywhere, we need a proper reason to do that. For me, the spread is N------H--I, because Hard to Insane is just about some more jumps and circles, while Normal to Hard is a whole new dimension of beat snaps and spacing. So unless we buff Normal a lot so that it doesn't fit as the easiest difficulty anymore, this spread isn't linear imo.
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
i havent been home yet so i havent looked at the map so far, ur call i guess.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
Difficulty spread looks good here. Both difficulty gaps are quite big but it's fine, they are pretty equal.
Doyak
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined November 2012
Topic Starter
Doyak
Okay, then I'll change my thoughts. By the way, I still would be glad to hear opinions about other issues (1/4 and 1/2 using same spacing on certain parts, Normal with no 1/1 breaks being proper as the easiest diff of the set, Hard being denser than Insane after the break)
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
Map is in graveyard and this thread has been inactive for over a month.
Archiving, if someone wants to bring it back contact me.
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