Bonsai wrote:

Why does only the diffname of the Easy have an adverb instead of an adjective lol It just sounded nicer. Painful Easy sounded weird to me, and Painfully Easy just sounds a lot better.

Also I heavily dislike 01:28:074 (5,6,7) in the highest diff bc horizontal jumps are generally harder to play than vertical ones of the same spacing, and I don't really see much reason to make (6) so special as it's still the same note as all the others in the music, would suggest smth like Yea, this kind of arrangement is really special because of the sharp angles i've set up, as well as the visually noticeably increase in DS. In all instances, the player is moving in very acute angles that also double back on the path of the previous two circles, creating an X flow that is a lot more comfortable to play. Why don't I want to dip down below the x axis? because if 5>6>7 involves an angle that dips, it actually becomes more difficult to control given how i've been controlling the gradual y-axis vextor decrease. What I mean by this is that 3>4 then 4>5 then 5>6 and then 6>7, you can notice that the length of y-axis movement decreases considerably as this jump pattern aims to turn all y-axis momentum (from 1>2>3>4, that use minimal x-axis movement) to purely x-axis movement. This is done by sharp angle changes, and a clear visual pattern that shows the change in y-axis from nearly full-screen to nearly 1/3rd the screen by the time 5>6 is played. This allows the player to snap to 7 much more easily because through these jumps, y-axis velocity has been gradually but surely decreased.

You often see remnants of this concept in slightly slanted linear sliders (which I often spam) because its just much more comfortable to have both an X and Y axis movement when you jump from one object to another. The exception is here, where the jump pattern is specifically tailored to make the switch from "a lot of Y movement" to "a bit of y movement" to "no y movement". Otherwise, having some y-movement is usually better since players don't have to cease all movement on one axis voluntarily in order to properly snap to the next object. (It's also why you almost never see perfectly horizontal/vertical jumps nowadays since they are quite tricky to set up if you don't know the idea behind it, imo)this
Doesn't 00:22:843 (5) deserve an NC? And for drain-balancing purposes at 00:37:613 (1,2,3,4) I'd suggest not NCing 00:24:074 (1,1) - 00:36:997 (1,1) - 01:14:843 (1,1,1,1) xd I don't think NC is necessary, and the NC spam there is to show the anti-jumps.

Tortured Soul Extra: Why does 00:22:843 (1) reverse twice? I don't hear a note there and you didn't do that in the following reverse-sliders either (even though 00:25:382 does actually have a note in the music lol) There's a note there though. And I think this fits very well as a rhythmic reduction of Eclipse that uses 5 note streams here.
And again I don't see why 01:28:074 (5,6) is suddenly that much higher spaced than the rest as I don't see that in the music at all, continuing your pattern like this would already increase it in relation to the previous two notes again, that's definitely enough I like the angles a lot actually. And i've always enjoyed having spacing increases to create a growing intensity in jump patterns. I think we've discussed this in a lot more detail when the topic was about quaver xD.

I like how I see that same issue in all other high diffs too except the Excrutiating Extra where it's like "hey, let's not space (4,5,6) at all" for some reason lol Yea. With this many diffs, I'm also aiming for different interpretations. Basically trying to emulate different styles while still showing elements of my own.

Hope that explains my intentions a bit more, thanks for checking!

#2

Karen wrote:

#2

what


@Monstrata: It would be cool if you could convey your point a bit simpler, all I got from this is that you're talking about angles which I don't really understnad bc my suggestion barely changes any angles at all, I just simply reduced the spacing to make it more fitting, you can still make (6,7) be horizontal by moving (7), I have nothing against that.

Yes, we discussed forceful increase of intensity in jump patterns in Quaver already, and your point was that you purely did it for difficulty, so I don't really see what you're trying to tell me lol

Intensity increases naturally from the amount of jumps you map, when you already have more high-spaced jumps in a row here than anywhere else then there is no need to forcefully increase the spacing even more when it has absolutely zero justification in the song

My point about NCing 00:22:843 (5) - is that this is the start of a measure and it's only natural to NC those since you're doing that everywhere else too, and you have a lot of those short combos anyways, so the question for me is rather whether there's any reason not to put a NC here

Do you really feel the need to indicate obvious anti-jumps at this diff-level? I highly doubt that any player skilled enough for this map will misread them when not NCd, and this just creates unnecessary imbalance in the drain, so again I don't see a reason why not NCing them would be bad in any way

And I still definitely do not hear any note at 00:23:074 and you didn't map it in any other diff either, not even Eclipse, so maybe you wanna make a rhythmic reduction here too eh

7*
00:40:690 (1) - wanna fix the rhythm here? It's a normal triple at the red tick

Bonsai wrote:

Karen wrote:

#2

what


@Monstrata: It would be cool if you could convey your point a bit simpler, all I got from this is that you're talking about angles which I don't really understnad bc my suggestion barely changes any angles at all, I just simply reduced the spacing to make it more fitting, you can still make (6,7) be horizontal by moving (7), I have nothing against that. Theres a huge angle change from 4>5>6 though, looking at your example. 6 Needs to be lower to reduce the angle. I also want a larger spacing here to emphasize the intensity increase I'm trying to convey. I was barely talking about angles tbh. A lot of it is y and x axis vectors. When you consider jumps, you also consider angles, and their alignment with the x and y axis. When you move your hand, unless you are slanting your hand or holding your pen/mouse at an angle, you will be putting force on your pen/mouse in both an x and y axis, the combination of which, gives the slant (maths maths etc...).


Yes, we discussed forceful increase of intensity in jump patterns in Quaver already, and your point was that you purely did it for difficulty, so I don't really see what you're trying to tell me lol That quote looks really bad out of context, can you not paint me in that color, thanks. We can move Quaver discussion to quaver, it's getting ranked sooner or later anyways.

Intensity increases naturally from the amount of jumps you map, when you already have more high-spaced jumps in a row here than anywhere else then there is no need to forcefully increase the spacing even more when it has absolutely zero justification in the song

My point about NCing 00:22:843 (5) - is that this is the start of a measure and it's only natural to NC those since you're doing that everywhere else too, and you have a lot of those short combos anyways, so the question for me is rather whether there's any reason not to put a NC here It's mor natural to NC this way imo. The reason people NC on the start of the measure is to give an indicator of rhythm. I believe I'm doing the same, except i'm showing the rhythm by not NC"ing on the downbeat.

Do you really feel the need to indicate obvious anti-jumps at this diff-level? I highly doubt that any player skilled enough for this map will misread them when not NCd, and this just creates unnecessary imbalance in the drain, so again I don't see a reason why not NCing them would be bad in any way It doesn't hurt.

And I still definitely do not hear any note at 00:23:074 and you didn't map it in any other diff either, not even Eclipse, so maybe you wanna make a rhythmic reduction here too eh I'll take a closer look when I'm home.

I appreciate your comments, but I think our ideas on jump spacing simply differ. I'd be happy to discuss this more with you so you can get my perspective better, but I won't be making changes without better analysis. I don't think "horizontal jumps are generally harder to play... etc..." is enough analysis so please consider my analysis on vectors and angles too. It's not something I usually explain because ppl just go "ugh so pedantic etc..." but I think you're one of the BN's who can appreciate the theory.

I guess let's hold off on qualifying this until I get home and do a proper check.

Hmm... I guess either Karen or Kibb can qualify after that... lol

Maakkeli wrote:

7*
00:40:690 (1) - wanna fix the rhythm here? It's a normal triple at the red tick

god bless Maakkeli

Fixed all.

Bonsai wrote:

And I still definitely do not hear any note at 00:23:074 and you didn't map it in any other diff either, not even Eclipse, so maybe you wanna make a rhythmic reduction here too eh

Fixed!

i thought it was an app map lol but fortunely i didn't qualify
Rebubblling due to some snapping changes

I think this song is safe if you not add video (since the opening have gore and some nsfw thing)

oh wait, you're really don't add it, glad it!

monstrata fixed some combo colours.

i will repair this bubble because i already qualified something today so hopefully giving it to karen to qualify lol.

okie

gratz
I hope community loves this map as me

so quick

congratz :>

griffith did nothing wrong

nothing to see here

Gratzz!

ayy congratulations sensei <3

gz my man!

I like how OD is matching AR on the above insane diffs... like in the good old times, where you had no choice but to have them match Osu! needs more high OD goodness :3

i still don't know if all diffs are made by you.. pls DQ or fix

mick2903 wrote:

I like how OD is matching AR on the above insane diffs... like in the good old times, where you had no choice but to have them match Osu! needs more high OD goodness :3

ctb style

Excruciating Extra
01:02:536 (1,2,3) - These sliders have really low hitsounds (45% instead of 90% volume in other diffs) thus making it really weird to play especially after these huge jumps where hitsound feedback is really needed

pls DQ

I don't know why only 45% volume in Excruciating Extra diff. But i can hear sounds/hit sounds when i'm playing. If Monstrata wants to fix this, pls poke me :p

Depending on the player's skin, these notes can be almost silent (this is my case) which is really disturbing since the previous notes are quite loud

It seems like a slipup from adding green lines and not intended

Please don't meme.

I'll fix that. I'll wait for alacat cuz I want to double check the source too.

dq

as request

fixed!

ok, will re-qualify after nine hours need to wait 24 hours after qualify https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5388480/

alacat wrote:

I don't know why only 45% volume in Excruciating Extra diff. But i can hear sounds/hit sounds when i'm playing. If Monstrata wants to fix this, pls poke me :p

not nearly as extreme as his 85% > 20% volume drops in Path of Wind :p

Those were intentional tho xD. This one's just a mistake when changing volumes. Initially the normal-hitclap was super loud so i reduced he volume in game, but then i reduced the volume of the hitsound itself so I didnt have to reduce the hit-normal volume for that section lol.

anyways, if its inaudible on your skin thats not really my problem. but the inconsistency is worth ironing out

Back!

griffith still did nothing wrong

gz pls rank this time

Monstrata....

WHY YOU DONT EDIT THE MP3 D:<

qual

Are you fucking joking?

Usually, I just look at these maps, take it up the ass and play older ones where I could actually stand it, but shown by this map 2016 is an absolute shit show of bad maps and I just seen one of the worst of all. Lets take a look

[Eclipse]

Theres nothing more to say about this map than throw it in the fucking graveyard, but just to humor myself. Ill explain my thoughts anyway.

The beginning is okay, up until this part.

00:12:690 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - What is this spacing and WHY is it intensifying so much? The song here has NO change in intensity, and the hitsounds barely make it intensified either. I agree with the whole "lets space it out as the jumps move forth," but dont make the god damn jumps across the screen, literally ONLY going for difficulty and I've never seen it more blatant.

00:19:151 (1) - From this note in the stream forth, what is the point of spacing this out more? Its not like the riff gets intensified more/higher in volume. Theres no reason to make this more spaced than the ones before. The guitar only calls for one spaced out section, then back to what it was. Thats how it should play from how it sounds, its a rhythm game for fucks sake.

00:21:613 (9) - Why aren't you atleast LOWERING the spacing? The intensity here is dropping yet for some reason you drop it here 00:22:536 (1) - ?

00:24:997 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - This spacing is SO inconsistent from the spacing you had in the beginning burst. Theres other ones you can find straight after too, not hard to find as its so blatant.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Hey guys, I know a great idea! You know how im only known for triangles? Yeah? So let me just add a fucking triangle pattern here, and make it have no rhythmic placement whatsoever, Haaha AHAHA memes bois!

Oh wow, that pattern is god awful, you did it so much better in previous diffs with sliders and a couple hit circles. it actually FITS. PLEASE

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I think a part of me died for the mapping community when I saw this shit can get ranked. These should not be across the screen jumps at all, because yet again its blatant difficulty mapping with no regard to the music whatsoever.

01:01:613 (1,2,3) - The intensity drops a bit here, so why does it increase in difficulty? Hmm.....I think that ones obvious.

01:17:920 (1) - From this point on, any ounce of consistency you may of had dropped to an all time 0% because this stream isn't intensified in any way, literally the same exact riff from the beginning, and worst of all, its not even intensified by a kiai time???

BUT WAIT IM NOT DONE WITH THAT STREAM

01:21:920 (1) - OH LOOK this note is the start of the exact same spacing as the previous stream before the spacing increase supported by the song, but you didnt do that earlier? What was the point of that??? It seems here you just thought you couldn't get away with more spacing it seems.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - yay more across the screen jumps. Kill me.

[Tortured Soul Extra]

A little more bareable of a diff for me, but still not great enough for ranking in my eyes.

00:15:613 (2) - This stream forth the biggest problem I have with this is the awkwardness of these stream pauses. I feel it'd be so much better to be using repeat sliders.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2) - These are so bad for a pattern, they make no sense and is so gimmicky in a map that has literally no other gimmick, I have no idea why you'd put these here in this way, again like earlier. SLIDERS SLIDERS SLIDERS. I've seen you use them nicely before, they'd fit here perfectly.

00:59:766 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - I dont even have to say anything, you know what im going to say. (*Cough* screen jumps *cough*)

01:17:920 (1) - The structure is well done comparative to the beginning, the spacing should stay atleast consistent, its literally no different from earlier.

01:27:459 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Honestly, I dont mind this one as much, its so much better than across the screen jumps.

[Tragic Death Extra]

00:13:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Eh, something about this pattern doesnt seem right and again the spacing is horrid.

00:15:459 (1) - Comparative to the diff above this, this is so much better of a way to reduce difficulty and making it not play like absolute shit.

00:18:843 (9,10) - These feel pretty awkward playability wise.

00:52:382 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is so much better than the diff above, but still super awkward for a map that you developed this to be. In both this diff and the last, you hype the map up with these intense jump patterns, yet for some reason these are so underwhelmingly close to each other. Im not saying increase the spacing a shit ton, but increase it a LITTLE bit, nothing insane. Make visible patterns, but dont make them over exaggerated. This is definitely a place to have low spacing, but not a place to have intense spacing. This section, just like the diff above is a massive flow breaker and needs fixing.

01:01:613 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing so bad, too much spacing here.

01:18:228 (1) - This section forth for the streams, they're beautiful, this is how it SHOULD be mapped, its perfect this way.

[Final Thoughts]

I will say right now that I bare no hard feelings toward you, and im more concerned and very annoyed at this mapset for its ridiculously high star rating for such a song like this. Im sorry, theres no other way I can put this, but this is like an attention seeker map, this is only made to be difficult, and like an attention seeker, its so fucking obvious. You honestly should've stopped at Tragic Death Extra.

The reasoning behind Tragic Death Extra being a stopping point is it has patterns that are most definitely iffy, but they're fixable, the ones above are blatantly going for difficulty, and the way its mapped is massively pushing it. Tragic Death pushes it a bit, but the next ones upward are so blatantly trying to go for difficulty that its actually saddening to see it.

Although, you may not take most of my suggestions into consideration, I am only trying to get my own opinion, despite it most definitely being unpopular of an opinion, which makes it even harder to make a post so upfront and oppressive to current metas. I only wish you the best of luck on this mapset. No hard feelings toward you again, I definitely tried to tone my mod town as I went forth.

Best of luck.

- Spoon