Wow, you misunderstood like half of my points, #languagebarrierisstrong
Oh, thanks for calling me a shitbrick, and also thanks for brushing off my two hours invested in looking at this map as "sightread skill"
Oh, thanks for calling me a shitbrick, and also thanks for brushing off my two hours invested in looking at this map as "sightread skill"
Fort wrote:
about the hyper i'll contact Aia for that, so yeahBonsai wrote:
Okay I got some time to look at some of the other diffs too this time~
Generally, the soft-hitnormal is basically inaudible for most intense sections to me, I don't get any feedback at all while playing, and even the drum-hitnomral isn't really audible either, so I'd try to either boost the volume of the current hitnormal or find some other hitsound to replace it i think it's audible for me, i can hear the hitsound in 100% volume, well the sound of hitdrum and hitsoft is same i think I know, that's why I wrote that you should try to amplify the current one. At least try to get some more opinions on this, bc just because you can slightly hear it in the editor doesn't mean it gives you any feedback while playing and smashing your keys
some basics for HyperInsane
- Why are you only NC every second measure from 03:33:818 - on? I mean the map is slightly denser but the music doesn't change its pace at all or anything like that i want to put interesting custom combo there, so why not because it creates imbalance in how the hp-drain works since you never put so few NCs except in the first half of the intro. If there isn't any other reason than "I wanted to make it interesting" then please don't do it as it doesn't follow the music.
I have to go now, but as far as I've seen, all those points that I already mentioned for the Insane apply to most other sections and most other diffs too, it's just an overall feeling of confusion because it isn't clear at all what you are trying to emphasize, patterns play extremely different than others even though the same is happening in the music, and on top of it all it looks really messy, for which I see no reason because the gameplay isn't that great either, just confusing and feeling very forced most of the time since the emphasis doesn't feel natural or logical please enjoy the game, this is the game don't take it so deeply just because this should be ranked and you're the only one who dislike this so much when lot people liked this, for me it's good for the game so it can be good for the others too, im trying to make this map with various patterns spacing and etc because i want it and im doing it so intentionally while people says this random at first time they will notice something in lot of tries so they can understand why i map like this Just by looking at this thread I see a lot of other people disliking this map too, and a lot of different mappers said the same too, so I doesn't seem like I'm the only one. I highly doubt that players will suddenly understand the map after a lot of tries when I just sat here looking and playing this one difficulty for two hours and still don't udnerstand it at all, seems like something about your concept isn't working. There are a lot of maps that aren't mapped for ranked that people love to play, but people loving it isn't any rational indication of a map's quality at all (or do you really believe that Highscore is the best map of 2015?). Everybody thinks that their map is good for the game, does that automatically make all maps of high enough quality to be ranked? I personally don't think so, if that were the case then we wouldn't have such a strict modding process and quality control that looks at much more than just the objective ranking criteria listed on the wiki.
- Why is 00:52:364 not even clickable when 00:50:182 (1) is even a 1/1-slider? imo a 1/1-slider would fit there too SV transition on next patterning, wow Please try to explain this better as I don't understand what you mean - I don't see any SV-change on the next combo, nor do I see how that influences this at all
- 00:54:545 (1) - I understand neither the big jump nor the SV-increase, there is a slight increasing whoosh-sound >starting< there but that only becomes noticable after a bit more time; imo raising spacing and SV here already takes away excitement from when the next section starts
Related to that, it is imo pretty weird that 00:56:182 (1) has higher SV but then it slows down at 00:56:727 (1) - again, if you followed that previous point and not raised the SV at 00:54:545 (1) then raising it to x1,5 at 00:56:182 (1) would already have the same kick-effect but avoid this slow-down-effect there is no such slow down effect since i put right patterning to deal with that, and since i put stack on 00:56:591 (2,1) - it will be alright when i put SV like that That effect is there because the player expects it to be the same SV but it is slower, so they have to slow down their initial movement. Have you tried doing what I suggested?00:57:818 (5,6,7) - is the spacing so broken on purpose?nvm, seems like it is - About the whole section from 00:56:727 on: It is extremely confusing to me why you switch around with the spacing so much - The first two combos play relatively equal, then all of a sudden huge jumps at 01:01:500 (2,3,4,5,6) but then a huge slow-down directly afterwards at 01:02:182 (6,7,8,1) -; or, a really long really slow section at 01:05:454 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - but then suddenly a rather big jump onto 01:10:773 (5) out of nowhere - Along with the seemingly random switching between the different lines of rhythm, I don't get what you try to emphasize at all, the different rhythms contradict each other a lot but on top of that the spacing varies randomly too, all in all this seems extremely messy to me (not even mentioning that the inconstant spacing of the 1/4s makes the aesthetics look really messy too, varying between anything from x2,0 to x3,0 whilst having almost the same gameplay effect doesn't make sense to me at all - Try to have a certain distance for certain types of gaps, don't just place them remotely random, it's extremely weird to sometimes see equal spacing between followpoints, then uneven spacings, then a follow-point being half-hidden under the circle already or one additional follow-point showing a bit) so various spacing in insane diff is not okay for you? remember i put this name as insane diff the rule is the insane diff can be mapped with any distance snap, and you must put the distancing relatively, this part has relatively spaced and structured well so for me it's really okay since the all spacing in this part is clearly visible and can be doable in gameplay without any problems of flow about that one. for me the sudden spacing and etc is okay to aim since i put a 2x slider SV to make sure people can do better aim for the map, i give people lot of concentration on here so i put some custom spacing there, and yes about 01:05:454 - this is the half of the parts so i think it's okay if i reduce the spacing jumps there since it has different transition part on 01:09:818 - with a relatively high spacing there, thanks for this but i think i don't want to change this .. 1.: I didn't mean that you shouldn't use different spacing, I meant that the aesthetics would look a lot more structured if you used a certain spacing for certain types of emphasis, for example using x1,9 for regular beats and x2,5 for beats that you really want to emphasize - For example stuff like 00:56:727 (1,2,3) or 00:57:273 (3,4,5) looks visually irregular, spacing them evenly would have no effect on the gameplay but help the overall aesthetics a lot. 2.: I would love if you could actually explain your structure to me because I can't detect any structure at all, otherwise I wouldn't have pointed it out. I am not saying that it is not playable or that it has bad flow, I just simply don't understand why you make it switch around between combos being not spaced at all and combos having a lot of jumps in them when the music stays the exact same, I am looking for reasons. A few more specific examples so you can explain them indicidually:
Why is 01:03:000 (8,1) spaced so low when the previous major downbeats had big jumps onto them, like 00:58:773 (8,1) and 01:00:954 (9,1) - ?
Why is 00:58:227 (6,7) spaced so low compared to other kicks like 00:57:136 (2,3) - 00:59:182 (2,3) and 01:00:273 (6,7) - ?
Why has this whole part 01:02:182 (6,7,8,1,2) so low spacing compared to the whole rest of this section so far?
Why is 01:05:454 (1,2,3,4) spaced so low compared to 01:06:545 (4,5,6,1) - ?
etc- 01:21:000 - Missing hitsound? I'm not checking them bc after looking at the Hyper I feel like you should recheck all hitsounds in all diffs yourself again, but this one really sticks out i think im doing this really intentional because of higher diffs on there, on hyper it looks okay since we put continuous patterning there, so there is no problem with the hitsounding But what's the reasoning behind it? Why did you even map that beat when you didn't do it in your higher difficulties? Since it's mapped like all other beats it just seems like a mistake, how is the player supposed to know your intention?
- I already find it quite weird that you ignore all minor downbeats from 01:13:909 (7) on, like 01:15:273 - 01:17:454 - etc because that creates basically 3/4-gaps of not doing anything for the player even though there is still much happening, and I guess your reasoning for that is that the melody doesn't have a new note there, and I beg to differ there - The melody doesn't change pitch, but it definitely has a new beat on those - But even following your hypothetical reasoning, why is for example 01:21:818 not clickable, but 01:21:682 - instead? please explain this to me because I don't see any logic behind those rhythm choices at all
or suddenly 01:28:364 - is being mapped, why? so when i map downbeats with slider tail it's same like im ignoring it? pls man you're 5 years old mapper who have looked about more than 9000 beatmaps in your life and you still don't get what this mean, i put this because i was know this is the right melody patterning since the first attempt this map look like melodical patterning, so i can map downbeat with only a slidertail, and please don't think i ignore that, i really considered this thing since long time ago and i agree with other people who get rid of this, man why this can be your serious problem saying this such non logical pattern when in 2010 and 2011 this pattern was made with such a lot of pro mappers, if you still don't see logic things about this map please retry and try to sync your brain with song itself not just with your sightread skill, 01:28:364 - this is a transitional part so why not? Sorry for using a word that appearently triggers you to throw insults around, let me put it another way: I think you can agree with me that a sliderhead gives more emphasis than a slidertail, because the player has to click on the head, right? Now I know that you are not strictly ignoring the downbeats, but you are giving beats like 01:15:136 or 01:17:727 more emphasis than 01:15:273 or 01:18:000 even though the melody has the same beats on both notes, but the basic rhythm / drums give those beats on the tails additional intensity, so I simply don't understand why you emphasize weaker beats more than stronger beats. Emphasizing those downbeats would not impact your melodical patterning at all since the melody has beats there as well. I have nothing against offbeat-sliders in general, in fact I love them when they fit and use them a lot myself, but I only love and use them when there is a reason to emphasize an offbeat more than an onbeat, I don't see that reason here.
About the argument "this is a transitional part so why not?": The music does not change there at all yet, and just because a few seconds later there will be different stuff happening does not change anything about the music at that particular part yet. 01:27:818 (2,3,4) is no different to 01:19:091 (2,3,4) except that the pitch is higher, imo that's no reason to completely change the rhythm all of a sudden.- 01:22:091 (5,6,7,1) - This is a good example of what I said about aesthetics earlier - These notes have a difference of 0,25 in spacing, which is easily visually noticable and looks not quite good to me, but it doesn't change anything for the gameplay at all because the slider-leniency makes all of those really easy anyways, so I don't see any reason not to space them the same. so you want make this map more harder with a jumps and you don't care about the gap on lower diffs? im playing with flow direction and the flow seems quite hard for aiming, and yes slider leniency in here can be affected for a mid rank players with sightreading skill, and remember this map is 220 bpm which it is hard to read and aim, ore faster more hard, and yeah i space them because of that flow reasoning, it's fine at all ..No, I don't want you to make jumps here or make anything harder at all, all I want is that you make the spacing visually equal by either making (5,6) slightly bigger or (6,7,1) slightly smaller. As I said it would make not difference for gameplay at all but help the aesthetics. (also I don't see what's supposed to be so special or hard about your flow lol)
Also, I dislike that pattern, like many others, extremely rhythmically because it doesn't differentiate at all between objects having melody-notes on the or not, here 01:22:773 doesn't have anything at all in the music but gets mapped exactly the same as everything else, or for example 01:24:545 (7,8) - completely ignores the melody bc it maps notes where no melody-notes are, and furthermore this is then mapped exactly the same as 01:26:727 (7,8) even though the melody has more notes there, and this missing differentiation occurs a lot and makes all of it seem so random, because there is literally no clue in the music or anywhere else why you mapped it like that what? in here has no melody 01:24:545 (7,8) - ? are you serious? im 100% sure this is a melody and i mapped like that because of that melody, and the purpose of that mapping is like put some break for players to make sure they can read the patterns which it has follows melody and kick&snare sound, i don't really follow the melody on that at all on that part i follow both so it will be fine since im hitsounding that on right way Sorry, my fault for appearently not explaining it detailed enough: There is no melody at the tail of 01:24:545 (7) but there is one at the tail of (6) but they are mapped the same, and it should be different to 01:27:000 (8) because that one got melody on its tail. The suggestion would be to simply replace 01:24:545 (7) with a circle in order to differentiate between those.- Another consequence of that weird spacing you have going on: 01:30:545 (6,7,8,9,1) this is a slow-down in the music, it leads to the next section which is much calmer, and you mapped it slightly less spaced than the previous combo, but this change in spacing has lost all of its meaning since you randomly do that all the time, for example 01:26:727 (7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) has the exact same spacing even though it is muuch more intense so when i put a consistant spacing and SV is unrankable when it goes through the slow parts with a similiar patterning? please im already know this since long time ago and that's why i mapped this 01:31:636 - part with a small 1/1 break, so why this consistency being your problem when i didn't make any less spaced patterns in every pattern i've made? ..No, my problem is that you are staying consistent even though the music is not consistent: 01:26:727 (7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) is just as intense as everything else in this section in the music, but 01:30:545 (6,7,8,9) is way calmer than that because one of the main instruments stopped playing. To put it in different words: My issue is that you map the same thing in the music extremely inconsistent in most of your map, but map inconsistencies of the music consistent in here.
- 01:33:545 (7,8) - seems like you wanted to emphasize this with the higher spacing, but since it is just forming a straight line with (6) it doesn't emphasize neither (7) nor (8) at all
- 01:35:727 (7,8) - to bring more structure into this section, this should be stacked, just as 01:44:454 (7,8) is stacked, otherwise it just seems random again they're something hidden from that pattern you didn't know ealier :^), if you said it's random then you're shitbricks Can you explain it to me instead of instulting me then? I looked at the repetition of that pattern and I saw that you spaced it out twice at 01:40:091 (7,8) and 01:42:273 (7,8) and then stacked it twice at 01:44:454 (7,8) and 01:46:636 (7,8) which makes sense, but at the first time you spaced it out at 01:35:727 (7,8) even though following that concept it should already be stacked (since the first spaced one musically already happened at 01:31:364 (9) -)
- 01:44:182 (6,7) - You always spaced those with at least x2,0 , why such a low spacing here? i don't get what you mean, im using consistent 1.6x spacing for that slider but why you talking about 2x spacing? You spaced these two objects with x2,0 or more at 01:33:273 (6,7) - 01:35:454 (6,7) - 01:37:636 (6,7) - 01:39:818 (6,7) - 01:42:000 (6,7) and 01:46:364 (6,7) -, the one I pointed out is the only one where you didn't space it that much.
Also, to come back to one of the earlier points, those seven timestampt I just linked would be a good example where you could imporve the aesthetic sctructure by spacing them the exact same since they are the exact same in the music, right now you are mixing between using x2,0 and x2,25 and x2,33 and x2,4 even though the gameplay-effect is the same, so I think choosing one specific spacing for all of them would only help.
I'm really looking forward to your response for all of this as I don't see much reasoning behind any of it, and I can gladly continue this for all other diffs if you find it helpful, but I feel like this is a very general problem of this mapset that isn't really moddable since it's the fundamentals that seem lacking here. im trying to answer your problem at all and it seems you don't give me any clue since im testing this map many times and i don't see the problem about this all (and since you don't give me the guide how to fix you just make me feels so uncomfortable with that since you're trying to make me remap everything as you want, and that's a rude thing at all)Sorry if I came across as rude, I am not wanting you to map everything as I want, if that were the case then I would have written "map it like this" instead of trying to explain why your concept seems flawed to me. I hope I could clarify my points enough this time. I have no issues with the pure playability of anything, I just have issues with the missing connection of the map to the song because I can't see any focus on anything from the music, and I am missing the differentiation between different things in the music that are mapped the same in your map and vice versa.