As the title says, what do you guys think about Beatmap Making Contests?
Basically, a topic is made, and a theme is given (Rock, Pop, etc.) and anyone can choose a song that fits the theme, and maps it. The best made one wins, and is automatically ranked, and, oh I don't know, the creator gets an A+ and a gold star.
So, what do you think? Yay or nay?

If someone is willing to organize it, and you talk it over with peppy about how to integrate it with osu, then I'm sure it'll work fine.

I have no idea how to integrate it with osu. But thanks.

I'd say the song should be made standard, rather than giving choice. Would be a lot more interesting to see different people's takes on the rhythm lines in the song.

I've held a few chart making competitions for dance gamers earlier, and we had great success with using a small number of songs, usually 3-5 depending on the amount of expected participants. It's a lot easier to judge when you just give one choice for the song, but people tend to have very different music tastes and limiting the choice to just one drives those people away from the contest who don't like the song, since it really is hard and horrible to try to make a chart/beatmap to a song that you don't like. With a small list of choices more people take part and it's still fairly easy to judge the choices, although it might be hard to decide on the actual goodness of some very great entries compared to the great entries in different songs.

What if it's a band-based contest? More specific than genre, but more freedom than choosing the song. Especially if it's one of the more prolific bands, with a lot of variety between their songs, but still a consistent style.

LuigiHann wrote:

What if it's a band-based contest? More specific than genre, but more freedom than choosing the song. Especially if it's Queen, and I can convince awp to do Bohemian Rhapsody.

I could see that working. I still find the specific song idea a more intriguing take on the contest though.

If you select one band, it's still limiting to just one music style, narrowing out a lot of contestants. That's why we use 3-5 songs with different genres.

unless that band has what we call variety

In that case selecting just the band would allow mappers to take even more varied songs than just selecting 3 songs for them to use, causing a lot of trouble with judging. Selecting an artist like Kyle Ward for example would result in a dozen or two different songs being used for beatmaps, making comparing them really difficult for the judges.

< autolose

I was thinking of something similar, with maybe making like a Collab map packish type thing. One song, and a difficulty from a lot of different players. Thinking of that got me thinking of a competition like that, but I figured whoever hosted it would obviously be very opinionated, and have their own preffered style of beatmapping. So I think there should be a few judges if this does eventually get off the ground. Take timing, spacing, and the other pre-mapping things into consideration before judging the ACTUAL map. A rubric of how they'll be graded will be a good idea, also.

Wow, I need to pay attention to my own topics.
Anyway, these all sound like awesome ideas. I do like the idea of having one band, because a band like Queens of the Stone Age would work, because they have variety in there songs.

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Oh yeah! I was gonna say that, cause I had it on my mind. Yeah, I was gonna say that there should be provided timing, so even the bad timers can do it without fear.

I like the idea of this. If this is going to be a regular thing, I'm going to be happy!

I was thinking about this, and now I do agree that having each contest focus on a single song would be the most exciting and fun way to do it.

LuigiHann wrote:

I was thinking about this, and now I do agree that having each contest focus on a single song would be the most exciting and fun way to do it.

I thought that people generally were agreeing on having 3 or so songs to have some variation, but not too much.

I think having one song would be kinda fun, but I say that only the winner should be submitted and ranked.
I mean, we don't want this to make about 14 RSG-a-likes do we?

I'd be 100% for something like this as well. I also agree with having just a single song rather than an artist. There's some other things that need addressing though:

-The song, of course. It would need to be pretty straight forward and osu friendly with the rhythms and such. I thinking the song should be something very well known that hasn't been mapped already so it would appeal to more people.

-Which/how many difficulties? I'm guessing either just normal, or an easy, normal, and hard.

-Who would do the judging? Will we have 'officials' like with the osu tournament, or will everyone not in the contest be able to judge? (maybe via polls or something similar). I'm guessing the former.

-What is the judging based on? Will visual/auditory elements (video, storyboard, custom sounds, etc.) be a factor in which beatmap comes out on top, or will it be solely based on the map itself? If the former, then people who don't know how to add these things in (esp. storyboard) will be at a disadvantage.

Once we decide these things, the contest would be a go I think, and you can count me in as well.

Heck, let's have a whole forum for it.

I'm surprised this hasn't been done YET. o_o

The suggestion was made... what... months ago? Might as well do it as early as possible!

Download: Cascada - What Hurts The Most (Nightcore Remix) (Lunah) [normal(milky].osu

Hmm...you think this needs to be moved out of feature requests since it isn't necessarily a feature?

Maybe put it in gameplay or sticky in the ranked/pending forum?

Also, bump.

I'm still thinking of ideas on how to make this work (ive been thinking about this competition for 2 months now)
I dont want this competition to end like the other one heheheh

anyone want me to say what i have in mind just say so. i can briefly explain what are my ideas are

Download: misono - VS (Eirene) [Kiddo's Normal].osu

^Sure.

GO!

...>_>; So anyways, I was thinking of this too. Well, more like a sadtistic map contest, and was going to make a topic about it. The maps would be judged on how sadtistic it can be while still being timed correctly and not overmapped, with decent spacing. For the lulz, you know?

...Okay, really, a single song contest would be fun, although maybe having four different difficulties to submit to, and the best of each wins (Easy, Normal, Hard, Screw You). Then you could either just do one difficulty, or do four, or three, or fiftyfive.

...Or just do it how you guys were thinking, I dunno. :O

The number of difficulties is not a factor here, it's quality. If multiple difficulties, all of them should be well-balanced, obviously.

kingcobra52 wrote:

-What is the judging based on? Will visual/auditory elements (video, storyboard, custom sounds, etc.) be a factor in which beatmap comes out on top, or will it be solely based on the map itself? If the former, then people who don't know how to add these things in (esp. storyboard) will be at a disadvantage.

Just one score, I believe, is necessary. Average of playability, the judge's satisfaction, overall quality, etc.

I believe there should be different placements. Not just 1st/2nd/3rd, but most original song/map, best storyboard, etc.

That being said, all information about storyboarding should be put in the contest topic, if only just a link to the other topic and examples of what it can do to improve your map (whenever anyone gets the chance to make a topic about it) so other people can add it too. I mean, if it only relies on how well it plays, and not anything else, it's going to be a pretty boring competition. You wouldn't have to add anything! You could win by just putting beats on the song in the editor (although this is unlikely, I'm sure if this becomes a successful contest that some entries will be like this). Some video tutorials would be nice to have, as well, if anyone is willing to make them (you can include me on this).

Also, we need a limited, but not too limited song selection. One song is too little, twenty songs are too much. Genres are also something to consider, because not everyone likes to map the same type of song. Two for each _wide_ genre (and by wide genres, I mean ones that are most popular today, like pop, rock, techno, dance, whatever).

Genres and songs should be voted for beforehand.

There's more that can be discussed, but I want to see what James has to say before I rant any further. o_o

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In a nutshell, heres what I have in mind:

• 
  - Judges? Depends on how many people will join. Around 3-5+ Not sure if they can join (obviously they cant rate their own maps if they are joining) Obviously, judges should not be biased.
  
  - There are multiple "rounds" for the tournament, especially when choosing songs. For example, first round is the eliminations, they get to choose whatever song they like to map. Next round will have different requirements for mapping a song, and so on. I mainly planned using this because I plan to use old beatmaps to use in one of the rounds.
  
  - As round progresses, there will be limitations/requirements on a beatmap, like max score/max combo/etc. IMO holding back when beatmapping makes the beatmap ugly. So I want to see how it would turn out if I force the mappers to "hold back"
  
  - Songs, Judges will talk about what songs/categories of songs/genre/whatever before what songs to release for mapping.
  
  - I also thought that a group of songs are to be released every round (after the first) and mappers should pick one of them. If the contest is using a "point system" (obviously it will use the system) the songs can have little multipliers for each criteria (harder song to map, more multiplier)
  
  - Mappers can discuss about the beatmaps if the beatmaps released for the xth round are only one song. If you give the timing to beatmapper "x" and then he won at the round and you didn't, woe is you.
  
  - Criteria for mapping. I haven't thought about what percentage for each criteria.
  [list:8f141]
  - How well the notes fit the song
  - How fun is the beatmap
  - Timing
  - Is the placement of the notes appropriate(spacing, etc.)
  - How well is the map presented(Background, Colors, Storyboarding)
  - Basically what Cyclone said.

Sorry I forgot the others as I did not put this on paper.

I AM THE ULTIMATE JUDGE.

Now accepting bribes

Yeah, that's because you won't map anything.

I want saturos and ivalset to join the competition~

As judges.

no mapper

Mappers is some sort of crazy slang for judges, right?

Kids these days..

oh yeah sorry

All of it sounds good as of yet. Now the only thing left is to finalize:

Judges: Amount/Who
Should a judge be based on rank (if so, WHICH rank; mapper or player), or just be selected differently, such as current BAT position? Would they have to have mapping experience (in Saturos' case)? How many should there be? Can they participate in some way other than just judging?

Well, I believe a judge should at least have high enough mapper rating or have current membership in the BAT; though neither of these automatically determine the experience one has with maps, it's a pretty good estimate. As for the amount, it should be relative to the amount that join. Three or five is a nice number (I'm quite partial to five myself, considering there is five rating criteria). Gotta keep it odd... that is... unless you WANT tiebreaker rounds. Those could get deliciously interesting, but it might not be practical when you can just end the round with a majority winner.
If we remove "official judges" entirely, and just make it voter's choice (everyone pretty much), then they could enter (this might be a good idea to do for the final round). Really, there's no way of doing this unless you have two groups of judges (ones for the contest and ones for the judge's maps), or just remove judges.

I don't believe in a head judge; only a contest manager of some sort that manages the topic, scores, links, etc., which doesn't have to be one of the judges

oh yeah, and not biased in any way

also,

And i wouldn't mind being a judge myself.

but lol i know that will never happen

Rounds: Amount/Rules & Guidelines
How many rounds? What would the rules be for the 2nd round, 3rd (4th 5th 6th whatever), semi-final, and final?

Entry: Any song; must have at least two difficulties
Round 2: [genre]-only songs (from judge's selection), must have at least two difficulties
Round 3: [genre]-only songs (from judge's selection), must have at least two difficulties
etc etc
Semi-final: Any song/[genre]-only songs/judges selection (with multiple songs and genres and stuff), must have at least three difficulties, with one being easy and one being hard
Final: Any song/[genre]-only songs/judges selection (with multiple songs and genres and stuff), must have four difficulties ([easy] [normal] [hard] [insane])

Play around with this, because I don't know how these rules should be mixed around for maximum interest.

Songs: Which?
We need judges for this first.

Criteria: What?
I'd say go with Cyclone's.

Percentages imo:
- How well the notes fit the song: 15%
- How fun is the beatmap: 25%
- Timing: 10% (low because some songs are relatively easy to time, and that it's really either a "well timed" or "not timed well" map; there can't be any deviation between those two; and what if songs are pre-timed anyway?)
- Is the placement of the notes appropriate(spacing, etc.): 25%
- How well is the map presented(Background, Colors, Storyboarding): 25%

also, you could list maps by how high they score in these categories separately maybe?

Timing: How?
Should the songs be pre-timed or not?

I honestly am not sure.

So, I think this is all that's left. Once this is out of the way, we could probably start.

You guys are trying to make this too big. Let's start with a small, one-round contest with one judge. Maybe a cap on the number of entrants, like 8.

Then eventually, we can have a bunch of these.

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too much work...

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Just a bit of randomness I just thought of:

If we're going to do storyboarding competitions as well, why don't we psuedo-combine the two? First, we have the beatmap competition, and once we have a winner for that, we have a storyboard competition for the victor's map. That way, we can just have one map, and the person doing one part isn't shoehorned into making a part they may not be good at. Might improve the quality.

o_o

Wouldn't it be kinda silly to split this into two different competitions for two different activities that combine into one singular category (beatmap making)?

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Not necessarily. Storyboards are nifty and add novelty and uniqueness to a map, but it doesn't always make a map better.

They both tie into the same thing, which is why it seems silly to split them up. I mean, why go back and storyboard old maps when we could just make new storyboards for our own new maps? Besides, if a mapper really intended to have a storyboard on his/her map, he/she would have made it before ranking.

imagine Bet on it beatmap with whole dance part storyboarded...

Ash wrote:

Besides, if a mapper really intended to have a storyboard on his/her map, he/she would have made it before ranking.

My counter to this is one of the reasons I suggested it in the first place. Not everyone's good enough (or knowledgeable enough) to fill their own vision of what their storyboard should be like, so the whole storyboard idea is discarded for just a video or a nice background (or nothing at all). With contests on the competition maps, there's also little need to worry about having your map lose just because someone else had an awesome storyboard to go with their map, even if the actual beats are less enjoyable than the ones you made. For the storyboarding part of the competitions, [the contestants] already have a map, with all the timing sections, breaks, and beats already done for them. All they have to do is make it look awesome.

Ash wrote:

I mean, why go back and storyboard old maps when we could just make new storyboards for our own new maps?

So, making storyboards for maps that were just completed makes [the maps] old?

I guess the particular point I was trying to make was to make it more accessible to those who can do one, but not the other (very well), to make it more fair towards the newbies who may have good potential in beatmap making, but not storyboarding, and vice versa.

Slain087 wrote:

Ash wrote:

Besides, if a mapper really intended to have a storyboard on his/her map, he/she would have made it before ranking.

My counter to this is one of the reasons I suggested it in the first place. Not everyone's good enough (or knowledgeable enough) to fill their own vision of what their storyboard should be like, so the whole storyboard idea is discarded for just a video or a nice background (or nothing at all). With contests on the competition maps, there's also little need to worry about having your map lose just because someone else had an awesome storyboard to go with their map, even if the actual beats are less enjoyable than the ones you made. For the storyboarding part of the competitions, [the contestants] already have a map, with all the timing sections, breaks, and beats already done for them. All they have to do is make it look awesome.

but storyboarding is already exceptionally easy; I'd assume the possible reasons it wasn't done already are of either: too lazy, did not know how to storyboard (but never saw the storyboard topic or read it to try to storyboard something), didn't have a good idea in mind, suck with paint

nevertheless, the people that can do it will do it, but it wont effect scores THAT drastically; you're acting as if the competition is centering around that one aspect of beatmaps

Slain087 wrote:

Ash wrote:

I mean, why go back and storyboard old maps when we could just make new storyboards for our own new maps?

So, making storyboards for maps that were just completed makes [the maps] old?

you misunderstand -- I don't mean "old map" as in "maps that were ranked without the distance snap feature", I meant "maps that were done already"

Slain087 wrote:

I guess the particular point I was trying to make was to make it more accessible to those who can do one, but not the other (very well), to make it more fair towards the newbies who may have good potential in beatmap making, but not storyboarding, and vice versa.

newbies that may have good potential are just what they seem; they have potential
in order for that potential to develop into skill, there must be a transfer of experience
obviously a newbie is not going to make a beatmap as good as, oh, say, james, the moment he/she joins
they need to practice first and get a feel for beatmapping
if you just give them a handicap and offer a free storyboard, it ruins the point

i mean, honestly, you can't expect it to be totally fair. those who have experience will use their experience to create beatmaps how they have learned how to create them, and the newbies will attempt and learn.