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LeaF - Calamity Fortune

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Topic Starter
Kibbleru
do we still use this thread of map discussions?
oh well here i go

p/4957576#p4957576

the normal is mapped in a very non-meta (style?), however i believe it can work.
but i want some opinions.

also what do u guys think about the spread? does the normal fit in the spread?
meii18
Checked and yeah looks really jumpy the normal difficulty.I would get rid of these jumps since this difficulty is supposed to be the easiest difficulty of the set and I don't think that the low-skilled players would be able to aim notes with kind of these jumps.Moreover,it feels kinda 'innappropiate' for the easiest difficulty of the set in the way how it is mapped.It is mapped in an 'Advanced difficulty' way let's say.

Just my though.
Topic Starter
Kibbleru
i just wana add, i hope we can think of this logically rather than 'this doesn't look like a standard normal so lets not do this'
Avishay
Dropped my opinion on the thread, I do think it can work and do want to see it furtherahead, but as I mentioned we'll need some beginners to actually try it.
Stefan
You shouldn't add any jumps in Normal Difficulties at all.
Myxo

Stefan wrote:

You shouldn't add any jumps in Normal Difficulties at all.
Generalizations like that make me sad. No player in the world reads maps by putting a ruler between two notes measuring out the spacing. It always depends on how the jumps are used and how intuitive they are to play.



Talking about the actual map, I do understand the concept behind it. Jumps are used in a way mappers typically use them in any diff higher than Normal. From the perspective of an experimental mapper it doesn't make much sense to use an entirely different concept (distance snapping all the way through) in the Normal if anything up from Hard is allowed to have big jumps after sliders, so that concept is used for the Normal too. It is also used consistently and the patterns are clearly structured and make sense.

Now there is the problem that in most situations there is a direction change directly after the jumps, leading to setups that might be very hard to read for newbie players. Just to give a few examples:
00:04:887 (1,2) -
00:07:287 (1,2) -
00:13:887 (3,1) -
For each of those, the tail of the second slider is closer to the previous object than it's head. This is repeated throughout the whole map. That means this Normal requires the skill of differentiating between sliderhead and slidertail via approach circles / numbers on sliders, which is a skill most Normal difficulty players don't have.

Another problem I can see is that many of the jumps are almost twice as big as the regular distance spacing, which means the 2/1-gaps could be misread as 1/1-jumps too (or the other way around, but 1/1-jumps are used much more frequently and introduced way earlier). There are different ways professional players read complicated rhythms like that, paying close attention to approach circles (very hard) and playing after intuition (objects will more likely start on a white / red tick than a blue tick for example (for higher diffs), which would mean objects will more likely start on beat 1 or 3 than beat 2 or 4 transfered to this particular map) are two of them. The map is not made in a way that would contradict these strategies, but those are skills that most Normal difficulty players don't have either.

I would say the difficulty does well at what it's trying to do but it doesn't fit as the lowest difficulty of the mapset due to the advanced skills required to play it that I explained above. I would recommend to add an Easy difficulty that introduces jump usage, but doesn't do the things I mentioned above (meaning it DOESN'T use jumps with direction changes directly after and it DOESN'T use jumps twice as big as the standard spacing). That would most likely be the best option.

I'm sorry for my complex sentences here, I didn't really know how to put it more simple though.
riffy

Stefan wrote:

You shouldn't add any jumps in Normal Difficulties at all.
This kind of generalization makes perfect sense and is totally agreeable. Some spacing variety is possible, but only to emphasize certain parts and it definitely should not be anything jumps-like. I am completely against any kind of jumps in anything that is labled as Easy/Normal.

Normal is exactly what it is, it should not use any jumps. It has to introduce players to more intense rhythm than Easy difficultis use, nothing more and nothing less. Jumps should be introduced in Hard (or at least Advanced) but not earlier.

If you want my opinion and you still want to keep the jumps, label it as Advanced and make a proper Normal.
Natsu
jumps shouldn't be allowed at least on the easier diff in the set, unless you want this to become a trend, I posted something similar at map thread.
Topic Starter
Kibbleru
k seems resolved
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