here is the map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/380052
Mappper extended the length of the mp3 to 5:15 for making this map legal for being ranked (extra length is from 01:38:513 - to 01:48:461 - )

Here are some other approval maps which are edited:

1. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/794750
2. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/662911
3. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/722224
4. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/412288
5. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/431957
6. ......

Personally i don't like the idea but there is no any rule related to it so far so these maps can still get ranked, but considering the bad conduct that it brings, and the respect for artists, i think we should stop this, or make a guideline. This should be included in the coming new Ranking Criteria.

By the way cutting mp3 should be contained as well in my opinion, anyway please drop your thoughts here! I'll pop that bubble for now.

Just dropping in my opinion.

1. Extendingstuff to 5:00 is disrespectful towards artists and should never be used. This is more of an excuse for laziness. In this case, mappers are trying to avoid about 10-15 minutes of mapping time, which is a no-go and never should be allowed.
2. Loops made to extend the song to be over 30 second are lame, but they should be tolerated as having the song done this way is better than not having the song at all.
3. Cut versions should be held on case by case basis, depending on what's cut and how much it hurts the track. As long as the mapper doesn't cut more than 30-40% of the song, we don't lose much. Although this is also a bad idea.

While we are at it, I remember S3RL provided a cut specifically for osu! version of his song. So, probably we should allow cuts/extensions as long as artists are okay with them?

Basically what bakari said.

I personally don't like this behaviour too, but I'd like to say this should be treated case by case subjectively. If a editing is good enough or not easy to hear about the editing part, or just edit for easy timing, then it's good to go. If a editing is just showing mapper's severe laziess, cutting for less mapping, extending for being approved which make original song listening much worse, then it should never be ranked at all.

its technically allowed, but personally I dislike the idea, I think mapsets like your example shouldn't be ranked at all. Anyways, isn't ranking criteria a better place to have this kind of discussion and figure out a rule or agreement?

If you add something to the song, this no longer belongs to the original creator of the song. If you want a stuff like this to be ranked, make it "Artist - Title (We Are Too Lazy To Make a Proper Set Edit)", so everyone will know how much you disrespect the artist.

Please, note, that we are losing about 10-15 minutes of drain time if the set in question goes ranked.

I did it 2 times, extending the final sound by 1-2 seconds, which means a 1-2 second longer spinner, which made drain time 5:00
I don't see much problems unless it's rather obvious. Slowing down such end part to 60% to make it fit approval shouldn't be that big of a deal

When approval time was 6:00 minimum, there was a 5:59 exception (because it was an innocent second), but then it happened for 5:58, 5:57 and so. If one gets a ranked map with an innocent fade-out extend, I won't be surprised if people pushes longer extends just because they are just 5s.

Getting a map ranked is a privilege. Value your own work, don't take shortcuts.

In my opinion, extending the mp3 a few seconds would be fine. Mappers should have a few seconds of lee-way when dealing with mp3 (as Baraatje and Dake sort of mentioned), but anything more than that is unacceptable, and should be judged case by case.

people's laziness is not really one of my concerns, if you were actually concerned about extending mp3s for an approval mapset, then putting a really long last spinner on a 4:45 or something playtime map to get the required 5 minutes of drain time would be just as bad as repeating a section of the music with actual objects.

For me it's the same kind of laziness behind both of them while the "long ass spinner at the end of the map which adds basically nothing to it except that it now doesn't need a full spread" and repeating a section of the song "so that it now doesn't need a full spread" while one of them seems to be really ok with everyone and the other one is something "disrespectful" because it modifies the original work of an artist.

I don't really get the fuss everyone is making out of this, but i think the community backlash in Asphyxia's map displays clearly that this stuff isn't something that it tolerates if it's too long or too noticeable. If you don't put this into a clear rule in the rewording of the RC then you won't be able to prevent it effectively either.

The extended thing in the post is technically okay under the current ruleset, and in fact has been done before the exact same way by sukiNathan except that most people only found out about that after it ranked. If you don't like people extending mp3s then suggest a rule to prevent it, though there might be different reasons for looping or extending a part of the mp3 which should be allowed so good luck on finding a wording for that, but i don't think destroying bubbles over it right now is valid

TL;DR:
Laziness is human nature, if you want people to stop being lazy add rules that prevent them from being lazy. I particularly don't really care because I enjoy making multiple diffs for the same song and couldn't care less if other people want to stop after one diff because the rules allow them to.

I will share Oko's thoughts here. There is no chance for us to allow such lazy rule. Adding a spinner for a song of 4:57+ (maybe 4:58) it's fine. It's only 2/3 seconds and it can be quite frustrating for new mappers to make a full spread just for that time. Other than that is a "no-no".

I agree with Tari here.Extending the mp3 only like 2-3 seconds would be fine but exteding more than like 10 seconds let's say for example extending for 1-2 minutes (? could not be acceptable and yeah needs to be judged if it's acceptable or not.As for cutting mp3s,it's partially acceptable.For example,it's a part which isn't a part of the original song and needs to be cutted.Another example,the mapper wants to cut the mp3 maybe just because it feels...lazy to map the full version of the song.
Regarding opening songs,cutting the mp3 there (for example the highlight of the song (kiai) ) it's already an overkill and it's considered as a 'no-no' thing.
Extending mp3s is partially acceptable but not for more than like 2-3 seconds.Just my though.

5:00 is 5:00, not 4:59.
Like people on this thread said, it's disrespectful to the artist, and to the people who made the RC and fought for a 6:00 to 5:00 change, to edit an mp3 in order to fit RC.
I agree that all maps with edited mp3 should be renamed to something like "Artist - Name (Edit ver.)" Let's snipe them ! :3

O god please no. I'd rather see a song ranked than never at all. Everyone's pretty much aware that unless your song is very popular or your map is very difficult/gimmicky/promoted by highly rated players, your map is just going to rot in graveyard with like 20 favorites after a year. Not everyone has the time to create a full spread, especially when they want to make a 6-7 star Extra.

Extending mp3's is the solution to bringing these 4:45/4:50 etc... songs to the ranking section for people to enjoy. Laziness shouldn't be factored in because a mapper's laziness in not making a full set speaks nothing of the map's quality itself. Someone's map shouldn't automatically be considered low quality just because they didn't map a full spread.

You can call someone lazy. That's perfectly fine. A lot of people are lazy. Imo people who only map 1 diff in a 8 diff spread for a tv-size map are even more lazy but hey, we aren't hunting those people down. Don't associate a mapper's laziness with something low quality, and don't discourage mappers from ranking their songs just because they are lazy.

On the topic of "disrespecting the artist" though, I can kind of agree here. But i feel this mostly has to do with people just being really bad at editing mp3's and creating an mp3 that doesn't reflect the merit of the original mp3 recorded by the artist. I think this mostly has to do with poor looping choices, such as looping an irregular and unbalanced number of measures. Many songs operate on a 16-measure basis, and I know some mp3's where an additional 4 measures are added on (making it 20 measures) and creating an imbalance in terms of rhythm. This imo is what poor editing looks like: where editing the mp3 causes the song to sound rhythmically off.

Extending one to five seconds the song should be fine as long as it makes sense with the song itself. More than that is disrespectful and incoherent for the artist which took the time to make the song.

I disagree with the idea of editing the title just because the song was extended two seconds, though. That might sound like we were DJs and we did ourselves a remix of the song in my opinion.

But if it's extended to add more of a pointless spinner, or tweak with a repeat phrase, that really isn't very fitting at all for the song. I'd rather see the map die than see it ranked. Laziness should not be factored in? I believe dedication should be, and if they don't strive to do what it takes to make what is necessary, which is a mapset for the song, then they don't have a strong enough desire to rank it. Not everything has to go to rank, never forget that. Unranked =/= low quality. It just doesn't fulfill all the criterion for rank status.

If it's not over 5 mins, it's not. The artist did not intend for it to be over 5 minutes. Respect that and do not edit it just so it becomes something that meets a rule in a game that the artist honestly did not make the song for. You can enjoy every bit of the map if it's uploaded on osu. People would play songs they like no matter what status it is, as long it's enjoyable. I've seen so many people search unranked for songs they like, as well as play all the different kinds of interesting unranked maps, extending mp3 is never a solution.

Just my 2 cents, but I stand for no-go. (This extended mp3 thing have been a problem during the Japanese community too.)

"Not having enough time to make a full set" can NEVER be an excuse to allow the extended mp3 thing because there should've been "guest difficutly" for the solution. Therefore honestly I'd say extending mp3s is just abuse of ranking criteria which I can't understand at all though no rule has been stated. Also like some of BNs/QATs already wrote here, it's disrespectful toward artists, mappers who put the best efforts into their own maps etc.


By the way, I'd add something to what Okoratu said which I agree with.
I also think popping bubbles over it right now is not valid. Meanwhile qualifying bubbled maps with edited mp3s which is still under the discussion also shouldn't be done for now (I mean "until what should be done is done").


EDIT:

Cherry Blossom wrote:

5:00 is 5:00, not 4:59.

Let me quote this because we should keep in mind it's supposted to be a hard-rule.

o yeah i admit it was not wise to pop that bubble, but i'll insist that this should be clarified, no matter go or no-go (altho i prefer no-go)

HappyRocket88 wrote:

Extending one to five seconds the song should be fine as long as it makes sense with the song itself. More than that is disrespectful and incoherent for the artist which took the time to make the song.

Monstrata wrote:

O god please no. I'd rather see a song ranked than never at all. Everyone's pretty much aware that unless your song is very popular or your map is very difficult/gimmicky/promoted by highly rated players, your map is just going to rot in graveyard with like 20 favorites after a year. Not everyone has the time to create a full spread, especially when they want to make a 6-7 star Extra.

Extending mp3's is the solution to bringing these 4:45/4:50 etc... songs to the ranking section for people to enjoy. Laziness shouldn't be factored in because a mapper's laziness in not making a full set speaks nothing of the map's quality itself. Someone's map shouldn't automatically be considered low quality just because they didn't map a full spread.

No, i disagree, this should be a hard rule like the approval rule, because you can never find a clear standard of what makes sense, what doesn't. It's also like 5 mins approval rule, even 4:59,9999 is a no-go. When there is no proper way to define something, we should have a rule, and that's why rules exist.
I will rebubble that map and keep icon maps which have this problem, but this discussion shouldn't end here, i will be waiting for someone who can clarify this.

just open a discussion at Ranking Criteria: 87 and propose a rule/guideline.

Why are we, as BNs, discussing about trat topic here when most of us suggests it should be a rule? In fact, this threas should be moved to Ranking Criteria as a new rule where all the community could participate, despite that forum hasn't been modified for 2 months. XD

Edit: Natsu ninja.

At this point extended mp3 should have a warning that the song has been modified and no longer sounds the way artist intended it to, then. So, people are notified that the song has been channged.

Anything below 5:00 is no-go for sure and should never be allowed. Modified mp3 are rankable, as long as there is no proper rule disallowing that. As for poor edits and obviously low-quality sounding mp3s, those never were allowed and are still unrankable.

Anyone motivated and interested enough can help and start/join the discussion about a rule disallowing extended mp3.

Just wondering, if a mp3 gets extended/shortend, does it still needs to provide the exact metadata?

Stefan wrote:

Just wondering, if a mp3 gets extended/shortend, does it still needs to provide the exact metadata?

RC wrote:

Do not alter the song's title. This includes adding any marker to describe the cut of the song such as "Short Ver.", "TV Size" and so forth unless those markers are part of the official song title as listed by a reputable source

I am pretty sure that it has nothing to do with changing the title of extended mp3, as it loses it's original sound and gets (unnecessary stuff) somewhere in-between parts or in the end, it can no longer be called original track and needs metadata altering.

Edit: Please, proceed with the discussion concerning RC changes: here.

just to make this clear: this discussion revolves around extending a mp3 to get rid of the predicament of making a full spread, there may be different reasons for looping part of a mp3, like these pokemon songs which aren't over 30 seconds without being repeated twice, which is fine since they repeat endlessly in the game as well.

if you want to forbid that as wellyou literally prevent a lot of short game themes to be rankable, ever.