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The Werewolf Game 5 (Ended by Host Decision)

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Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
Again, I don't believe that Two is the psychic. I know I'm going off on a limb here, but suppose for a moment that Two is a wolf/vampire.

*Wolves kill one of their own (Two) on night 1 (something that hasn't been done before, but is VERY possible and getting more and more likely every game)
*Two claims psychic and magically confirms multiple people (i.e., his wolf buddies)
*Priest believes that Two is pro-town and revives him to get more names
*Two leads everyone off a cliff by making them vote for whoever he wants them to. (Yes, Two is sometimes like this, but I think that this is getting a bit out of hand)
*Even if Two gets killed again on night 3, that still wouldn't prove that he's pro-town since the wolves would be getting their kills from Two's hit list.

If this is really true, then think how easily the wolves will win. I believed for a while that Two was the psychic, but getting everyone to vote under his command, trying to coax me via PM with a list of confirmed humans, etc. is really making me believe otherwise.

I'd vote for Two right now, but since he should be getting NK'd tonight, our lynch vote would be better on someone else. (i.e., scum)
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
I have also considered the possibility that Two is a vampire, but here's the thing: nobody has counterclaimed Psychic. Two is probably the most trusted player in the game right now - if he's not the Psychic then the real one certainly would have spoke up by now.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

0_o wrote:

if he's not the Psychic then the real one certainly would have spoke up by now.
Possible, or there could be no psychic at all (though that's unlikely in a big game like this). Also, what if there are two psychics? (I can't remember if A<3 said if that was possible or not though)

Again, this is just all speculation, and the main reason I'm bringing it up is due to Two's near-scummy way of getting people to vote.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
Your plan/idea is flawed, Derekku.

For one:

Derekku Chan wrote:

*Two claims psychic and magically confirms multiple people (i.e., his wolf buddies)
I'm not a wolf, nor a vampire.

Two:

Derekku Chan wrote:

I'd vote for Two right now, but since he should be getting NK'd tonight, our lynch vote would be better on someone else. (i.e., scum)
If you think he isn't Psychic, why would you assume he's going to be NK'd? You know that's WIFOM.

You also imply in that statement that Two is not scum, even though most of the rest of your post is trying to support the idea that Two is perhaps scum. Freudian slip which I'll follow with a vote.

Vote: Derekku Chan
Hijiri Tezuka
313 posts
Joined March 2010
Hijiri Tezuka
Well, after reading what Two said, I guess I got no other choice bu to Vote:Rolled
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

strager wrote:

If you think he isn't Psychic, why would you assume he's going to be NK'd? You know that's WIFOM.
Option 1: Wolves kill Two because he's the "psychic" (Still doesn't tell if he really is or if the wolves are just making it look like he's not)
Option 2: Wolves don't kill Two (just brings up confusion so I don't see this as a likely option)
Exactly as you said, strager. It's just WIFOM. Again, I'm just speculating.

strager wrote:

You also imply in that statement that Two is not scum, even though most of the rest of your post is trying to support the idea that Two is perhaps scum.
As for my "let's vote for scum" comment, I meant try to find another scummy person until we have more thoughts on Two (and something from Rolled, since everyone is all "kill now, ask questions later").
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
Derek darling, let's continue the logic if Two would indeed be a Vampire. Two goes ahead and clears multiple people that are also vampires. That makes 5 by now: Two, whoatefred, strager, me, and Chris. For the sake of being consistent I'm assuming there are eight in total. At the end of day one, whoatefred got lnched. That means there are seven wolves left in the game. Come Night one, the wolves off their own member, Two. And then there were six. On Day Two, DxS more or less claims coroner and more or less says Two was Psychic and whoatefred was human. This goes against the theory, so DxS must also be a wolf. we have six known wolves, three of them dead right now. That leaves 5. Then Night Two, Two gets revived by the Priest, bringing the wolf count back to six. Do you think the wolves would kill Two tonight, again reducing their own numbers and killing off their most valuably positioned player? And then I didn't even mention the fact that, if the actual psychic (if any) would investigate ANY OF THIS LIST AT ALL, or if the actual coroner got info on Two, whoatefred and DxS and sees they are ALL WOLVES, the entire list Two pointed out as being human becomes a list of known wolves, thereby revealing 6 out of my pictured 8 wolves. Wouldn't that be a silly move?
If you stilll believe Two is indeed a wolf, and think the loss of potentially the only role left that can deduce other people's role, then go ahead and vote for him, since your reasoning he will get NK'ed is terribly flawed.
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
actually I said matthewtck not whoatefred
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
well whoatefred was in your confirmed humans list you sent to all of your confirmed humans.
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
yes he definitely was a human but matthewtck is more concrete imo
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
Wait, if you added matthew in there that makes for seven out of eight known wolves if you are one. And with Rolled acting all weird and the pile of arguments against him he would then most likely be nr 8. That means all you have to do is lynch all of that list during the day and town wins.
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
yes but we are getting a little offtopic

unvote, vote Rolled
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
Just pointing out the flaws in Derek's reasoning~
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
Wojjan, I don't think that he'd confirm the entire list of wolves, since that would be too obvious/suspicious/whatever.

I realize that there are flaws in my "reasoning", but I only posted that line of thought to get people to fucking think instead of just following every word that Two says. The majority of players have voted for Rolled now, and I'd say that many haven't even thought twice about their vote. THAT is the problem here.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Wojjan wrote:

Just pointing out the flaws in Derek's reasoning~
You're not supposed to point out flaws by creating flawed counter-arguments.

Who the hell says a wolf has to try to clear all of his wolf buddies? While I am a Civilian as Two said, he can still be a vampire making a lucky (well, with probability in his favour) guess.

Wait; Derekku just said that. Damnit. =[

Derekku, having one solid arguments/counter-argument is much better than having a list of flawed arguments. Thanks.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
Vote: Wojjan

It's pretty unfair to vote for Rolled since he hasn't even had a chance to give his rebuttal. I'm sticking with my vote on Wojjan until Rolled says something.

Though Rolled could be faking this whole scenario, I just want to hear it straight from his mouth.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
Vote: Everyone. For Mario's reasoning.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Wojjan wrote:

Vote: Everyone. For Mario's reasoning.
inorite
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old

MarioBros777 wrote:

Vote: Wojjan

It's pretty unfair to vote for Rolled since he hasn't even had a chance to give his rebuttal. I'm sticking with my vote on Wojjan until Rolled says something.

Though Rolled could be faking this whole scenario, I just want to hear it straight from his mouth.
Why are you voting for one of the few people who are all but confirmed human, especially when Wojjan isn't the only person who voted for Rolled?
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Chris wrote:

MarioBros777 wrote:

Vote: Wojjan

It's pretty unfair to vote for Rolled since he hasn't even had a chance to give his rebuttal. I'm sticking with my vote on Wojjan until Rolled says something.

Though Rolled could be faking this whole scenario, I just want to hear it straight from his mouth.
Why are you voting for one of the few people who are all but confirmed human, especially when Wojjan isn't the only person who voted for Rolled?
Because they're wolf buddies and MB777 is trying to distance himself.
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old
Users browsing this forum: Rolled and 1 guest
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
Okay.

First and foremost, given my circumstances, I haven't acted out of nature at all in this game. Typing this post alone will probably take me 30 minutes (i have no USB keyboard) Obviously this is extremely inconvenient, and to be frank, I dont hold an important role in this game thus it has not been my top priority to remain a big part. Most of you know how I play this game, and limiting my activity to just the forums cripples me greatly. Not to mention i log out every time I refresh a page, and don't even have the ability to use the most basic functions such as quoting. I haven't even spoken to anybody in this game since it has started, really. Anybody who is justifying their vote towards me with "Rolled is acting strange" is a cop out. MY circumstance is well-known, and I had considered finding my own replacement on D1 but Ace wasn't for it.

Character limit. This post is just defending myself, I will post assumptions in next post.
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
As far as Two's claims of me having the most gain from him dying d1, while perhaps this may be true, it is completely absurd to conclude that him dying n1 makes me a wolf. In fact, him dying n1 should mean the exact opposite because I would not be so foolish to do something like that. I know you've seen the wolf forums from last game, why would I repeat the same strategy that I know you are well aware of? Think outside the box.

Just because Two is making these accusations doesn't make me suspicious of him at all, he's just terribly misguided. Chris too, for that matter. I request our old pregame MSN log to be posted just so you can see how ridiculous it was.

One more post coming. Going to attempt to quote Two
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
Okay cant quote. Bit by bit.

"Let's start with our 3 way msn conversation (Chris, Rolled, me). Rolled proposed that, to stop the random votes/get people to talk (I forget which if it's not both), the three of us all vote for someone within 1 second of each other. Chris said okay, but only if he got to pick who. Chris chose whoatefred, I forget what his reason was but we didn't argue and all voted for him." Reason? There was no reason because it was the vote was for nothing more than to stop people's RV shenanigans. It served it's purpose for the most part.

"1. If Chris named a wolf, I believe he would either have given a bs reason to not vote for them or he would have changed his vote before the end of day 1, despite his computer problems (as they were easily circumvented via ps3)." This is stupid. So he turned out to be human. I had no idea of this until anybody else did. The vote was nothing more than a RV, and I agreed to vote for whoever Chris wanted before he even gave a name.
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
Char limit yet again. As you can see, it is a pain and a half to even partake in this game with my current conditions and I've already lost interest. I hope my point got across well enough.

Now back to the matter at hand, I am of no use in this game atm, but I still assure you all I am human. At this point in time, however, I believe the best way to handle this would be for all of you to see for yourself via the coroner that I am nothing more than a vanilla civ. On d4, let it be known that I cast FOS on all bandwagonners to Two and Chris.

Vote: Rolled

Best of luck.
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
Oh, and thanks a fucking lot you made me miss RJ Berger.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
okay. status is updated, and it took long enough considering all the copypasta'ing i hadda do. -that and apparently my enter key has died now too, meaning i hafta copypasta linebreaks, also-. nonetheless, as you can see, i remain dedicated to this werewolf game even though a sizable chunk of my keyboard no longer works -though, if my ctrl key breaks, i will be in major trouble-, and have taken the time to update the status post with all necessary capital letters and stuffiz. i highly doubt i really need to post the current vote tally, cuz we all know where it's headed, but here you go anyway.

Vote Tally
* Rolled (9 Votes: Two, pieguy1372, Todesengal, matthewtck, Wojjan, DiamondCrash, Chris, Oyashiro Beatrice, Rolled)
* Wojjan (1 Vote: MarioBros777)
* Derekku Chan (1 Vote: strager)
* Todesengal (1 Vote: [Phantom Vote])
* MarioBros777 (1 Vote: [Phantom Vote])
* pieguy1372 (1 Vote: [Phantom Vote])

by the way, two, as far as i recall, your first vote on d3 was for rolled in the first place, so i didn't count it as a change.

i will be around tomorrow for the lynching, and it will happen on time regardless of my keyboard issues. i don't care if i hafta start typing the post an hour early and add the name at the last minute -and if it must, it will be in all lowercase-. i get paid friday and a usb keyboard is on my list of mandatory expenditures, but until then, i must deal with my myriad keyboard problems. hopefully i can borrow one from a friend for the next few days; i've been asking around.

i guess that's about it.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
Well, looks like it's over for d3.

Vote : Rolled, better than a PV.
nardii
271 posts
Here since the beginning
nardii
Even though I agree with most of what Rolled said, it doesn't seem to really matter anymore, so because I don't know who else to vote for I'll just Vote: Rolled as well.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
I don't see why you need a USB keyboard, Ace of Heats.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
orz

Vote: Rolled
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
Well, since Rolled gave up I may as well tell you all that I scanned Rolled night 2 and he came up as a vampire. Your posts were cute, though, Rolled ^_^

Also, the insomniac informed me night 2 that Wojjan and Zerostarry are vampires.

Andd the seer informed me that there are 7 wolves total, so just 4 to go. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out, looking back on their vote history.

It's also worth mentioning that I basically said "tell me your role or I'm going to waste my scan on you" to about 5 different people. The only person who outright refused to do so was adam.
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old
Guess we know who to lynch, huh? ^_^

Owned.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
You're fourth, Chris.
nardii
271 posts
Here since the beginning
nardii
Nothing can fool Two's women's intuition.
thepianist
544 posts
Joined March 2009
thepianist

Two wrote:

Well, since Rolled gave up I may as well tell you all that I scanned Rolled night 2 and he came up as a vampire. Your posts were cute, though, Rolled ^_^

Also, the insomniac informed me night 2 that Wojjan and Zerostarry are vampires.

Andd the seer informed me that there are 7 wolves total, so just 4 to go. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out, looking back on their vote history.

It's also worth mentioning that I basically said "tell me your role or I'm going to waste my scan on you" to about 5 different people. The only person who outright refused to do so was adam.

Vote Rolled.

(I didn't know that the psychic can scan the same night (s)he was revived)
adam2046
1,653 posts
Joined April 2008
adam2046

Rolled wrote:

Vote: Rolled
:(
Vote: Rolled
Tatsuo
575 posts
Joined January 2009
Tatsuo
Bah, this sucks.
Vote: Rolled
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
status is updated, and it makes me slightly happier to say my enter key is apparently only about half-broken. it evidently picks and chooses when it feels like working, right now being one of the times it felt like operating -thankfully-.

stats as follows.

Vote Tally
* Rolled (14 Votes: Two, pieguy1372, Todesengal, matthewtck, Wojjan, DiamondCrash, Chris, Oyashiro Beatrice, Rolled, DJ KRZY, nardi11011, Derekku Chan, thepianist, adam2046)
* Wojjan (1 Vote: MarioBros777)
* Derekku Chan (1 Vote: strager)
* Todesengal (1 Vote: [Phantom Vote])
* MarioBros777 (1 Vote: [Phantom Vote])
* pieguy1372 (1 Vote: [Phantom Vote])

also, i added tatsuo's vote just now on the status post. not gonna bother updating this post with it, as it was yet another vote for rolled.
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old

adam2046 wrote:

Rolled wrote:

Vote: Rolled
:(
Vote: Rolled
Why are you sad a wolf is about to get lynched?
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
Unvote

Vote: Two

fgt
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old

Rolled wrote:

Unvote

Vote: Two

fgt
ROFL

Hurry up and get your computer fixed. :(

I called you out being a wolf first, you should vote for me.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
okay guys, pencils down. new phasepost will be up soon, then the status will get updated, then i'll stick the votelog in there for the records. i have pvs to hand out for sure today.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
Dusk

apparently wanting to get it over with, Rolled willingly walked right up to the noose and helped everyone else secure it around his neck. the floor was then dropped out from under him, as it was for the two before him, and he hanged until dead.

barring any last words he may have, Rolled is now dead and is out of the game.

Night 3

During This Phase: night pms in my pmbox. you know who you are.

Deadline: 8:00 PM EST on thursday, july 15th, which gives necessary people 2 days to get in touch with me.

also, here's the Day 3 votelog.

Day 3 Vote Log wrote:

Vote Tally
* Rolled (14 Votes: Two, pieguy1372, Todesengal, matthewtck, Wojjan, DiamondCrash, Chris, Oyashiro Beatrice, DJ KRZY, nardi11011, Derekku Chan, thepianist, adam2046, I_Tatsuo_I)
* Two (1 Vote: Rolled)
* Wojjan (1 Vote: MarioBros777)
* Derekku Chan (1 Vote: strager)
* Todesengal (1 Vote: [Phantom Vote])
* MarioBros777 (1 Vote: [Phantom Vote])
* pieguy1372 (1 Vote: [Phantom Vote])

Vote Log
* Two voted against Rolled.
* pieguy1372 voted against Rolled.
* Todesengal voted against Rolled.
* matthewtck voted against Rolled.
* Wojjan voted against Rolled.
* DiamondCrash voted against Rolled.
* Chris voted against Rolled.
* strager voted against Derekku Chan.
* Oyashiro Beatrice voted against Rolled.
* MarioBros777 voted against Wojjan.
* Rolled voted against himself.
* DJ KRZY voted against Rolled.
* nardi11011 voted against Rolled.
* Derekku Chan voted against Rolled.
* thepianist voted against Rolled.
* adam2046 voted against Rolled.
* I_Tatsuo_I voted against Rolled.
- Rolled changed his vote to Two.

x LadySuburu failed to vote.
x DJblackthorne failed to vote.
x 0_o failed to vote.
x dkun failed to vote.
x Zerostarry failed to vote.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
Combo breaker.
bearing019
osu! Alumni
1,367 posts
Joined June 2009
bearing019
Ace, update your signature.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
^ Phantom Vote gets. Shame, seeing as one was just to be silly (strager) and the other could've been PM'ed to me (DiamondCrash).

Edit-in: Fixed my keyboard problems temporarily by using Joy2Key. I knew something could be done. *thumbs-up*
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
Dawn

Well. It'd apparently been an interesting night; on the ground was a body, of course; Zerostarry's. But in this case, it clearly possessed fangs. A telltale swordslash mark was across both the neck and the chest, and a wooden stake was in the chest, as though the murderer wanted to be sure the victim was dead if they were really a Vamp. Apparently they had made a good decision: the Ninja has slain a Vampire.

(For the record, this confirmation is mandated by the rules; rules state that the Wolf kill is cancelled if the Ninja manages to kill a Wolf, and its form is plainly visible come morning; the only thing I do not reveal is the identity of the apparent Ninja.)

There are now 21 of you.

Day 4

During This Phase: Public discussion and lynch voting.

Deadline: 8:00 PM EST on Monday, July 19th. This allows 4 days for discussion.

Edit-in: By the way, I lol at there being 6 PVs on the vote tally before anyone's even said anything. That's a record among the WWGs I've hosted.

Edit-in 2: Let the brixshittings begin. :3
Last edited by AceOfArrows , edited 1 time in total.
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun
oh fuck you ace

vote: Ace of Hearts
nardii
271 posts
Here since the beginning
nardii
Let's recap:

Confirmed wolves:
Rolled
Zerostarry
Wojjan
Todesengal

Confirmed aux roles:
Psychic - Two
Seer - Someone known to Two
Insomniac - Someone known to Two
Ninja - someone

Ninja kills a wolf = no night kill

So if we just let the ninja kill the confirmed wolves, and try to figure out the rest during the day and using the psychic and insomniac, we'll definitely win!
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
As far as I'm aware, Tode, you never voted on Day 3. I never saw anything.
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old

nardi11011 wrote:

Let's recap:

Confirmed wolves:
Rolled
Zerostarry
Wojjan
Todesengal

Confirmed aux roles:
Psychic - Two
Seer - Someone known to Two
Insomniac - Someone known to Two
Ninja - someone

Ninja kills a wolf = no night kill

So if we just let the ninja kill the confirmed wolves, and try to figure out the rest during the day and using the psychic and insomniac, we'll definitely win!
Bingo, game's over. We win. ^_^
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
so can the ninja please pm me who you are so we don't lynch you thx

in the mean time vote adam2046

and that ninja rule is pretty gay
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Todesengal wrote:

oh fuck you ace

vote: Ace of Hearts
Vampire.

This game mostly broke when Two was able to scan N2, IMO, assuming he really was able to (vampire!).

By the way, adam is the Ninja.
Last edited by anonymous_old , edited 1 time in total.
nardii
271 posts
Here since the beginning
nardii
yeah tbh that ninja might be a bit TOO powerful when used together with information gathering roles because the wolves can't do anything to them

but I DON'T CARE :)
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
I'm going to post this again in red font because people read red font can the ninja pm me so we don't lynch you

also if I was a wolf I would honestly just post the wolf list at this point cause I'm sure I'd be mad

so good for you for being stronger than me :)
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
I actually had to check my own rules, because I'd forgotten what my exact stipulations were. I thought I'd removed the Wolf kill cancellation clause, but it is in there, and I must go with what's in the rules. It will be different next time.
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old
Vote: Oyashiro Beatrice
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun

Todesengal wrote:

yeah cuz Tode will fuck your shit up rargh

/flex

edit: fuck it I was waiting to see if Rolled would claw his way back onto osu to at least try to refute some of the accusations but it seems either he can't or doesn't care enough to try. vote: Rolled
herfderf you even counted it why would I complain about a pv I don't have

I was complaining about the ninja rule. God, we don't even get his name AND our kill was cancelled? Thanks for that dickmove. Thanks for letting Two scan the night he was revived, that's plausible sure thanks.
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old

Todesengal wrote:

Todesengal wrote:

yeah cuz Tode will fuck your shit up rargh

/flex

edit: fuck it I was waiting to see if Rolled would claw his way back onto osu to at least try to refute some of the accusations but it seems either he can't or doesn't care enough to try. vote: Rolled
herfderf you even counted it why would I complain about a pv I don't have

I was complaining about the ninja rule. God, we don't even get his name AND our kill was cancelled? Thanks for that dickmove. Thanks for letting Two scan the night he was revived, that's plausible sure thanks.
The kill cancel was lame, Ninja should get a kill and Wolves should get one. That way humans get a lynch + ninja and wolves get their NK, assuming there is no GA protecting them obviously. Getting his name shouldn't happen, that's the point of being a ninja.

Two scanning the night he was revived is completely legitimate.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
Gee, I think I can remove a PV. It ain't hard. All I needed was proof that you voted, which you provided in your quote, and I checked my log; you did vote, for Rolled, but somehow I did not mark you in the main status list in blue as having Voted, so there was a mental slip somewhere, which was my fault. I'll remove the PV.

Also, no more bitching about the Ninja rules. I would have it different too, but what's in the rules is how I must operate; as I said, I'll make sure I get rid of the wolfkill cancellation clause next game.

I'll answer the scan question using a hypothetical: If there were a dead Psychic, and he happened to get resurrected, at Night, and there was still time before the deadline in which said Psychic managed to squeeze in a request to use their ability, there are no problems with it, as it is still Night, they are now alive, and they will have sent their request before the deadline. I would treat the death and subsequent Night resurrection of any other information gathering aux role - including the Wolf Pack Leader if a Priest happened to res a WPL by mistake - the same way.

As far as I am concerned, being a reasonable Host who follows written rules, this Werewolf Game is not at all broken and is currently functioning perfectly within its rulesets and parameters.
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old
20:59 The_King_In_Yellow I've roleclaimed wolf about 4 times this game
unvote, Vote adam2046
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

Gee, I think I can remove a PV. It ain't hard. All I needed was proof that you voted, which you provided in your quote, and I checked my log; you did vote, for Rolled, but somehow I did not mark you in the main status list in blue as having Voted, so there was a mental slip somewhere, which was my fault. I'll remove the PV.

Also, no more bitching about the Ninja rules. I would have it different too, but what's in the rules is how I must operate; as I said, I'll make sure I get rid of the wolfkill cancellation clause next game.

I'll answer the scan question using a hypothetical: If there were a dead Psychic, and he happened to get resurrected, at Night, and there was still time before the deadline in which said Psychic managed to squeeze in a request to use their ability, there are no problems with it, as it is still Night, they are now alive, and they will have sent their request before the deadline. I would treat the death and subsequent Night resurrection of any other information gathering aux role - including the Wolf Pack Leader if a Priest happened to res a WPL by mistake - the same way.

As far as I am concerned, being a reasonable Host who follows written rules, this Werewolf Game is not at all broken and is currently functioning perfectly within its rulesets and parameters.
The game isn't broken at all, but humans win.
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun
herfderf the rule is what broke the game
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Chris wrote:

Two scanning the night he was revived is completely legitimate.
You could argue that dead players can send in their aux action even when they are dead. However, nowhere in the rules does it say dead players may not send in their aux action and have it be successful. In other words, there's no loss in a dead aux other than losing a town player's vote.

Therefore, this game is shit, if you exploit that loophole. It seems Ace of Hearts mistakenly allowed that loophole to be exploited by Two. I'm not saying Two did it maliciously, but that's how I view it from a logical point of view.

Please fix the above by adding a section about death (other than "you can't post in the thread, ha!" everywhere). In my mind, role actions are queued until the end of the Night, then executed at the end of the Night in order, atomically. Therefore, dead aux roles cannot ever perform their action (unless it is a special role where things occur upon death, etc.).

In addition, nowhere in the role PM does it state that if a Ninja kills a wolf the wolves' kill is blocked. I ignore all rules about roles in the OP, as they serve as guidelines of what to expect before the game starts. I would suggest you rewrite the OP to be very general in how roles function, and let the role PM include a complete superset of the description described in the OP.
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
Uh? I'm not sure if I understand your post strager but I was notified that I was revived in the middle of night 2. After seeing that, I said that I'd like to scan rolled if I'm allowed to. My role wasn't automatically performed for me and I did send a pm, if that is what you are talking about.
adam2046
1,653 posts
Joined April 2008
adam2046

Chris wrote:

20:59 The_King_In_Yellow I've roleclaimed wolf about 4 times this game
unvote, Vote adam2046
None of them were serious brah :(
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old

strager wrote:

Chris wrote:

In addition, nowhere in the role PM does it state that if a Ninja kills a wolf the wolves' kill is blocked. I ignore all rules about roles in the OP, as they serve as guidelines of what to expect before the game starts. I would suggest you rewrite the OP to be very general in how roles function, and let the role PM include a complete superset of the description described in the OP.
If you end up killing a Wolf, the Wolves run scared for the night (and the dead body's Wolf form is plainly visible to everyone in the morning). If you kill a human, the Wolves still get their kill (and the humans will wake up with TWO deaths the next morning).
I guess that's the mistake you made, not reading the rules. Next time don't "ignore" what you don't thinks worth reading and there wont be a problem.
bearing019
osu! Alumni
1,367 posts
Joined June 2009
bearing019

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

^ Phantom Vote gets.
<3
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Two wrote:

Uh? I'm not sure if I understand your post strager but I was notified that I was revived in the middle of night 2. After seeing that, I said that I'd like to scan rolled if I'm allowed to. My role wasn't automatically performed for me and I did send a pm, if that is what you are talking about.
I wasn't saying what happened was against the rules. I was saying it is basically exploiting a loophole which needs to be covered somehow later on. One possibility of covering this loophole is having all night actions occur at once at the end of the night, and disallowing the dead from performing such an action.

Chris wrote:

I guess that's the mistake you made, not reading the rules. Next time don't "ignore" what you don't thinks worth reading and there wont be a problem.
I guess that's the mistake you made, not reading my post (and not using a semicolon). My suggestion was to prevent "hidden" rules from messing up the game, not to revert what has happened already in this game.
LadySuburu
80 posts
Joined June 2008
LadySuburu
More drama yay. Oh well, these things fix themselves eventually.

SPOILER
Priest Revival theoretical rules - Aux powers / Other stuff I felt like writing.

If the priest revives an aux (In this case, Psychic) in the middle of night, and the host wants to allow the Aux his ability, the revival needs to be announced in the thread when it happens, such as halfway through Night 1. This allows the wolves to NK the Aux once again, but the psychic will get his aux ability off. However, in games where there is out of thread communication, this can be easilly exploited if the priest and the Aux are in communication. (5 minutes before deadline anyone?)

Otherwise - The announcement is the next day, and the Aux is revived with no chance to use their ability that night. Think of it as a sort of... revival sickness.

Or something like that.

Generally, there are two ways the Aux roles are handled in Mafia (Sometimes WWG too.).

1. Aux roles are completed as sent in.

2. Aux roles are queued till end of night. All roles will succeed, barring roleblocker type moves.

In scenario 1, Aux players generally want to get their action in as early as possible. This way, they'll get information in case they die. The kill still isn't announced until night ends. Example: Ninja sends PM in first, Wolf leader Sniffs Psychic, Wolf team kills Psychic, Psychic scans ninja. No roles will recieve any PMs back in this case, other than maybe a "You were killed while attempting to do your night action." If the psychic or wolf had sent in their PMs before they were killed, they would get them.

In scenario 2, all Auxes get their PMs. If the Psychic scans a wolf but is killed, the Psychic would still get his result. In this case, Auxes can wait and plan their choices.

Or something, Not gonna check through what I've written here much, but you get the point.
AceOfArrows
116 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
AceOfArrows
strager's right on at least one thing. The role ID overrides the official rules if it says something that conflicts with the official rules. However, I just checked the template, and the ID says nothing about whether or not the Wolves lose out on their kill (if it actually said they still got their kill, it would conflict with, and thus override, the official rules). There is no conflict, thus no override, therefore my hands are tied.

And sure, there's nothing in the rules about dead people not being able to send in an aux PM, but let's be serious, if it ever happened, they'd get a friendly "Remember? You're kinda dead..." and said PM would get deleted. Just because it's not stated in the rules doesn't mean it's not common sense. If you're dead you can't perform your aux actions. Duh? Although if you want, I'll still put it explicitly in the rules anyway so stupid people will see it/so smart people won't try to loophole. I keep saying I'm a reasonable Host, and I do the best job I can to follow where there are rules and create on the spot for unforseen circumstances that pop up. That's all part of my job.

And strager, for the umpteenth time, I execute Night PM actions in the order I receive them. If I get a Seer request before the Seer gets killed the same Night, I honor it because the Seer request got to me first. Sure, they can't post the info in the thread 'cuz they're dead, but it is fact of matter. Put it to ya this way, if the Priest publicly resurrects someone, then for whatever reason a Vig shoots and kills the Priest, do I tell the Priest his res is no longer effective because now his own death is now present in that Day's events? No, I don't. Again, common sense. I understand that Day and Night are different phases, but I like to run everything the same way. I like to think I'm pretty damn reasonable, butiIf you have that much of a problem with the way I run things, find a different game, because though my rules come and go, the overall style in which I run things is not going to change.

Also, though I agree that the Ninja rules need changed, I still fail to see how the current Ninja ruleset breaks the game. Dead Zero would still be dead, confirmation of Ninja kill would still be present, only difference would be that the Wolves would still get their kill under the proposed (and preferred) rule. Even under current rules, if the Ninja fucks up and kills a Human, the Wolves still get their kill, and the players wake up with TWO dead bodies in the morning. Even if the current rule isn't optimal, it's far from being so awful that it'd be an "OMG GAMEBUREAKU" rule.

I do my homework, okay people? Sometimes I have mental lapses, and when I do, I always apologize and take the blame, and when necessary, I make rulings where there were none, change the rules next game, or even make reversals when necessitated and/or when necessary proof is given (Tode no longer has a PV on her head).

o.o I'm forming a textwall. I'll stop typing before I make another paragraph or repeat how reasonable I try to be again.
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun
I never had a PV I don't know what you are talking about
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
basically all deaths and revives should be queued and only made effective at the end of a phase

but again we are getting off subject, vote for adam everyone
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

And sure, there's nothing in the rules about dead people not being able to send in an aux PM, but let's be serious, if it ever happened, they'd get a friendly "Remember? You're kinda dead..." and said PM would get deleted. Just because it's not stated in the rules doesn't mean it's not common sense. If you're dead you can't perform your aux actions. Duh? Although if you want, I'll still put it explicitly in the rules anyway so stupid people will see it/so smart people won't try to loophole. I keep saying I'm a reasonable Host, and I do the best job I can to follow where there are rules and create on the spot for unforseen circumstances that pop up. That's all part of my job.
It's also common sense that the top-voted player gets booted, but it's in the rules. Should it be removed?

Also, if we played a game with zombies...

Anyway.

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

And strager, for the umpteenth time, I execute Night PM actions in the order I receive them. If I get a Seer request before the Seer gets killed the same Night, I honor it because the Seer request got to me first. Sure, they can't post the info in the thread 'cuz they're dead, but it is fact of matter. Put it to ya this way, if the Priest publicly resurrects someone, then for whatever reason a Vig shoots and kills the Priest, do I tell the Priest his res is no longer effective because now his own death is now present in that Day's events? No, I don't. Again, common sense. I understand that Day and Night are different phases, but I like to run everything the same way. I like to think I'm pretty damn reasonable, butiIf you have that much of a problem with the way I run things, find a different game, because though my rules come and go, the overall style in which I run things is not going to change.
In no way, shape, or form did I say that's not how the game currently operated, or that it's a bad way to operate the game. (I think it should be in the rules, too, but you don't seem to like clarifying things out of "common sense" or something like that.) Two ninja'd this response with what I meant:

Two wrote:

basically all deaths and revives should be queued and only made effective at the end of a phase
Emphasizing the relevant part of my post, which I was trying to stress (unsuccessfully, apparently):

strager wrote:

In my mind, role actions are queued until the end of the Night, then executed at the end of the Night in order, atomically. Therefore, dead aux roles cannot ever perform their action (unless it is a special role where things occur upon death, etc.).

Ace Of Hearts wrote:

Also, though I agree that the Ninja rules need changed, I still fail to see how the current Ninja ruleset breaks the game. Dead Zero would still be dead, confirmation of Ninja kill would still be present, only difference would be that the Wolves would still get their kill under the proposed (and preferred) rule. Even under current rules, if the Ninja fucks up and kills a Human, the Wolves still get their kill, and the players wake up with TWO dead bodies in the morning. Even if the current rule isn't optimal, it's far from being so awful that it'd be an "OMG GAMEBUREAKU" rule.
I hope that wasn't directed at me.
thepianist
544 posts
Joined March 2009
thepianist
Voting 0_o

Wait, he wasn't here.

Unvote

Sorry bro.
Last edited by thepianist , edited 1 time in total.
thepianist
544 posts
Joined March 2009
thepianist
Also, vote Adam2046
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
Shoot: 0_o
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
unvote, vote 0_o until he shoots someone
adam2046
1,653 posts
Joined April 2008
adam2046

thepianist wrote:

Also, vote Adam2046
Why?
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
I kinda side with Ace, night actions should be processed by the order of PMs received. Think of the night phase as one flowing real-time phrase. For example, if the Seer, whoever it is, used his Seeing ability before the Ninja killed Zerostarry, then he would have seen a certain number, probably six assuming Rolled was a wolf (he is, isn't he?). If the Seer used his Seeing ability after the Ninja killed Zerostarry, he would have seen five. Whether the Seer saw before or afterh the ninja kill should be decided by whether the Seer sent his night action PM before or after the Ninja did.

Therefore, I think everything was legit, the game is still on (although very, very tipped in favor of humans at this point), and auxes might have to be weakened in the future to balance the game.



Oh, and are we not voting for wojjan because we're sure he/she is a wolf and we don't want to waste our lynching when the ninja can do the killing for us? If so, that's another NK the wolves are not gonna get. That's critical.
nardii
271 posts
Here since the beginning
nardii
^
I like how the night works currently better.
Just send in your PMs earlier, wolves :|
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

DJ KRZY wrote:

I kinda side with Ace, night actions should be processed by the order of PMs received. Think of the night phase as one flowing real-time phrase. For example, if the Seer, whoever it is, used his Seeing ability before the Ninja killed Zerostarry, then he would have seen a certain number, probably six assuming Rolled was a wolf (he is, isn't he?). If the Seer used his Seeing ability after the Ninja killed Zerostarry, he would have seen five. Whether the Seer saw before or afterh the ninja kill should be decided by whether the Seer sent his night action PM before or after the Ninja did.

Therefore, I think everything was legit, the game is still on (although very, very tipped in favor of humans at this point), and auxes might have to be weakened in the future to balance the game.
You obviously didn't read my post.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY

strager wrote:

You obviously didn't read my post.
As a matter of fact I didn't. Bear with me while I do...

Edit : I've read your post.

Say one night a psychic scanned A. Then the psychic got NKed. Obviously, the psychic knows whether A is a wolf or not, but cannot say anything since he is dead.

The next night, the psychic gets revived, and scans B before the night is over. Now, the psychic knows about B as well as A. The next day, he is able to post about A and B.

Isn't this what happened this game? I think this is completely legit. Why shouldn't the psychic be allowed to scan A if he sent the PM before he was NKed? According to your method, the psychic never scans A because he is dead by the end of the night and therefore cannot perform his aux action. However, wouldn't it be more realistic to say the night actions occur precisely at the moment when an aux sends his night action PM to Ace? As I said before, think of the night phase as one flowing, real-time phase.

That was my two cents on the subject, it's up to Ace to decide which model she likes better.




If I have misunderstood your model, strager, please point out how because I'm not 100% certain if I have.
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
The whole reason why there are 4 day days and 2 day nights is because of real life. To have events happen as they are pm'd is contradictory.

That said, stop talking about this ffs. Either play the game or quit.

and everyone vote for 0_o
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old
unvote, Vote: 0_o
bearing019
osu! Alumni
1,367 posts
Joined June 2009
bearing019
Well, okay then

Vote: 0_o
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
Just so we're all clear, Two is trying to force me to shoot someone to verify my vigilante claim.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
I know.
V0_ote
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
I was so looking forward to shooting you Wojjan, but that task was reallocated to the ninja ;_;
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

0_o wrote:

I was so looking forward to shooting you Wojjan, but that task was reallocated to the ninja ;_;
No little harm in speeding up the process.

DJ KRZY, and maybe Ace of Hearts: I'll reword my statement. The way I see the system Ace of Hearts idealizes is this:

Aux actions are only considered for alive players.
Aux actions are queued during the night.
At the end of the night, all aux actions are executed sequentially and atomically, in order of enqueuement (FIFO). All aux actions are executed, except in explicit cases. (The Ninja in this game may be such a case, though it isn't clear from the rules. I can explain this if you want.)

An alternative is to have a priority queue, or some form of partitioning. So, you can say GA protections always occur before Wolf night kills. This is what occurs in all Mafia games I have played, and is more "fair" in my opinion, as Two basically said.

Oh, and in case I'm not the vig, I'll vote: 0_o.
nardii
271 posts
Here since the beginning
nardii
must follow master Two

Vote: 0_o
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
..if he hollers let him go, eeney, meney, miney...

sorry.

BAM

The vigilante shoots LadySuburu.
Hijiri Tezuka
313 posts
Joined March 2010
Hijiri Tezuka
Damn, I'm not really sure if I should bandwagon. Oh to hell with it....
Vote: O_o
Last edited by Hijiri Tezuka , edited 1 time in total.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
Hey OB, protip;

Vampires don't get guns.

Also it's not O_o, geez.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

0_o wrote:

Hey OB, protip;

Vampires don't get guns.
MS MS MS.
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old
I guess 0_o was the Vigilante.

unvote, Vote thepianist
nardii
271 posts
Here since the beginning
nardii
No now i have to think for myself and make a desicion :(

Unvote for now
Two_old
620 posts
Joined March 2008
Two_old
k unvote, vote thepianist
Hijiri Tezuka
313 posts
Joined March 2010
Hijiri Tezuka
Damnit all
Unvote
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