Then why is it that your previous post got it wrong until after I posted a correction and you edited yours?Saphirshroom wrote:
Actually, at least in Switzerland, musical theory is part of standard education.RaneFire wrote:
Fewer people playing this game have any experience with musical theory, so tough luck trying to change that.
forum
Single tap speeds
posted
Total Posts
78
Because my counting is freaking horrible and I thought that streaming was eights and not sixteenths.GhostFrog wrote:
Then why is it that your previous post got it wrong until after I posted a correction and you edited yours?
Good point tho.
Well, we are playing osu here, and even if we were all educated swiss, it'd make more sense to use osu's system when talking about osu.Saphirshroom wrote:
Actually, at least in Switzerland, musical theory is part of standard education.RaneFire wrote:
Fewer people playing this game have any experience with musical theory, so tough luck trying to change that.OP was asking about sexteenths at 100bpm which is 1/4ths in osu! language which is singletapping 200bpm or streaming 100bpm.Riince wrote:
what
My "at least in Switzerland" was meant to come across as "I don't know about other countries" rather than "Switzerland is awesome". Dunno which way you took it, but just to clarify.cheezstik wrote:
and even if we were all educated swiss
Ok no haha I didn't mean to imply that you were on a high horse (even though others might see it that way) but let me rephrase that: even if we were all musically educated***Saphirshroom wrote:
My "at least in Switzerland" was meant to come across as "I don't know about other countries" rather than "Switzerland is awesome". Dunno which way you took it, but just to clarify.cheezstik wrote:
and even if we were all educated swiss
Can you elaborate on how Osu!'s system is different from common music theory? Afaik tracks are mapped with 4/4ths usually which results in a certain bpm. Whenever you use the timing setup you try to figure out the metre in 4ths. You get a certain number eventually which is your bpm of the map.cheezstik wrote:
Well, we are playing osu here, and even if we were all educated swiss, it'd make more sense to use osu's system when talking about osu.
e.g. 180 bpm. 180 1/4s a minute = 360 1/8s a minute = 720 1/16s a minute (common stream notes).
Nothing new here. Nothing special and not any different from music theory. This is a rhythm game after all.
Why is osu's timing so different then common one (not that I know common, but it gets referred to A LOT here)
It drives me nuts (reading through threads like these)
To above
WTF
180 1/4 notes are the same as 360 1/8 notes?
It's 4 times as fast
Same for 720 1/16, which is 16 times faster then 180 1/4
180 1/4 = 720 BPM clicking
360 1/2 = 720 BPM clicking
360 1/8 = 2880 BPM clicking
720 1/1 = 720 BPM clicking
720 1/16 = 11520 BPM clicking (Calculated correctly?)
This is according to Osu's timing
It drives me nuts (reading through threads like these)
To above
WTF
180 1/4 notes are the same as 360 1/8 notes?
It's 4 times as fast
Same for 720 1/16, which is 16 times faster then 180 1/4
180 1/4 = 720 BPM clicking
360 1/2 = 720 BPM clicking
360 1/8 = 2880 BPM clicking
720 1/1 = 720 BPM clicking
720 1/16 = 11520 BPM clicking (Calculated correctly?)
This is according to Osu's timing
sheesh...baraatje123 wrote:
Why is osu's timing so different then common one (not that I know common, but it gets referred to A LOT here)
It drives me nuts (reading through threads like these)
To above
WTF
180 1/4 notes are the same as 360 1/8 notes?
It's 4 times as fast
Same for 720 1/16, which is 16 times faster then 180 1/4
180 1/4 = 720 BPM clicking
360 1/2 = 720 BPM clicking
360 1/8 = 2880 BPM clicking
720 1/1 = 720 BPM clicking
720 1/16 = 11520 BPM clicking (Calculated correctly?)
This is according to Osu's timing
ok, music theory 101:
1 full metre/beat divides into 4*1/4s. this is known as a usual 4/4 beat. very common. this means that you can fit 8* 1/8 or 16*1/16s into the same amount of time. why? because 1/8 is half as much as 1/4 and fits 2 times inside it. basic mathematics.
now if you have a beat of 180 notes per minute which are 4ths how many 8ths can you fit into this single minute? exactly. 360. how many 16ths? double it again. 720. how many 32ths? 1440. And so on.
Infevo wrote:
Can you elaborate on how Osu!'s system is different from common music theory? Afaik tracks are mapped with 4/4ths usually which results in a certain bpm. Whenever you use the timing setup you try to figure out the metre in 4ths. You get a certain number eventually which is your bpm of the map.cheezstik wrote:
Well, we are playing osu here, and even if we were all educated swiss, it'd make more sense to use osu's system when talking about osu.
e.g. 180 bpm. 180 1/4s a minute = 360 1/8s a minute = 720 1/16s a minute (common stream notes).
Nothing new here. Nothing special and not any different from music theory. This is a rhythm game after all.
In standard 4/4 signature, assuming same BPM, 1/16 notes are equal to standard 1/4 notes in osu divisor, otherwise known as streaming (freedom dive is 1/4 osu notes at 220 bpm for example, but would be equivalent to 1/16 notes at 4/4 220BPM if using the real music system) and 1/8 is equal to 1/2 notes in osu divisor, otherwise known as single speed.Infevo wrote:
sheesh...baraatje123 wrote:
Why is osu's timing so different then common one (not that I know common, but it gets referred to A LOT here)
It drives me nuts (reading through threads like these)
To above
WTF
180 1/4 notes are the same as 360 1/8 notes?
It's 4 times as fast
Same for 720 1/16, which is 16 times faster then 180 1/4
180 1/4 = 720 BPM clicking
360 1/2 = 720 BPM clicking
360 1/8 = 2880 BPM clicking
720 1/1 = 720 BPM clicking
720 1/16 = 11520 BPM clicking (Calculated correctly?)
This is according to Osu's timing
ok, music theory 101:
1 full metre/beat divides into 4*1/4s. this is known as a usual 4/4 beat. very common. this means that you can fit 8* 1/8 or 16*1/16s into the same amount of time. why? because 1/8 is half as much as 1/4 and fits 2 times inside it. basic mathematics.
now if you have a beat of 180 notes per minute which are 4ths how many 8ths can you fit into this single minute? exactly. 360. how many 16ths? double it again. 720. how many 32ths? 1440. And so on.
Basically, everything is 4 times as fast in osu divisor notes.
1/32 music = 1/8 osu
1/24 music = 1/6 osu
1/16 music = 1/4 osu (Streams / Triples)
1/12 music = 1/3 osu
1/8 music = 1/2 osu (Singles)
1/4 music = 1/1 osu
divisor =/= note length
Osu!'s divisor is just a system to help mapping. even if you work with a 1/1 divisor on a 160bpm song. it won't change the fact the song has 4ths, 8ths, etc.
It does not change the fact, that the song runs @ 160 4ths a minute.
Osu!'s divisor is just a system to help mapping. even if you work with a 1/1 divisor on a 160bpm song. it won't change the fact the song has 4ths, 8ths, etc.
It does not change the fact, that the song runs @ 160 4ths a minute.
Yeah but we're talking about notes in osu, so the smart and proper thing to do in this case is to use osu's system to talk about notes in osu.Infevo wrote:
divisor =/= note length
Osu!'s divisor is just a system to help mapping. even if you work with a 1/1 divisor on a 160bpm song. it won't change the fact the song has 4ths, 8ths, etc.
It does not change the fact, that the song runs in 160 4ths a minute.
Do you go to other countries and tell people speaking their language that your language is the correct one and they should speak your language even though they are speaking their language in their country?
That's what the English should do to America.
Notes in Osu!? are the same as notes in music theory. Again, nothing different. Check any map's bpm. Does it consider the divisor metric as its beat/beat length? It doesn't. Now what's your point? Any maps bpm is given in 4ths. Hell, even big black's is.cheezstik wrote:
Yeah but we're talking about notes in osu, so the smart and proper thing to do in this case is to use osu's system to talk about notes in osu.Infevo wrote:
divisor =/= note length
Osu!'s divisor is just a system to help mapping. even if you work with a 1/1 divisor on a 160bpm song. it won't change the fact the song has 4ths, 8ths, etc.
It does not change the fact, that the song runs in 160 4ths a minute.
Do you go to other countries and tell people speaking their language that your language is the correct one and they should speak your language even though they are speaking their language in their country?
Do me one favor and go through your map pool. Check each map's bpm and try snapping to the beat. If you still going to tell me you snap whole notes in a 140bpm easy 2 star song imma just put you on ignore. This discussion is ridiculous.
Infevo wrote:
Notes in Osu!? are the same as notes in music theory. Again, nothing different. Check any map's bpm. Does it consider the divisor metric as its beat/beat length? It doesn't. Now what's your point? Any maps bpm is given in 4ths. Hell, even big black's is.cheezstik wrote:
Yeah but we're talking about notes in osu, so the smart and proper thing to do in this case is to use osu's system to talk about notes in osu.
Do you go to other countries and tell people speaking their language that your language is the correct one and they should speak your language even though they are speaking their language in their country?
^Look at that picture. What do you see? I see bread. In fact, most people with proper eye sight would see bread. Now, in English, I refer to it as "bread". Now, looking at the exact same piece of bread, someone might refer to it as "pain" in French, or "brood" in Dutch, or "roti" in Indonesian, or "хлеб" in Belarusian (Disclaimer: Google translated, may not be accurate) but it's still the exact same piece of bread.
Now in osu, we refer to what they refer to in music theory differently, despite being the exact same notes. Go to a mapping thread with your music theory and everyone will be confused.
Noone, i repeat NOONE, is gonna look up the particular snap divisor with the editor when talking about a certain map's part just to be 100% correct with your imaginative definition of Osu!'s beat design. Simply, because it is inconvenient.cheezstik wrote:
Go to a mapping thread with your music theory and everyone will be confused.
When I search for a beatmap with streams of a certain speed I can easily find some simply by checking the bpm within the map's page. Can you believe it? I don't need the divisor to make sure I find the right map for my needs. Can't be too much different then from my idea, can it? Regardless of the particular snap divisor in use for mapping that song I am still 100% sure I get what I want. How? Applying simple music theory.
I also repeat. This is a rhythm game based around actual music. Your comparison of enforcing one's language on other nations is not off just a little.
this topic is getting derailed and becoming education in another way... Cheestik is on a roll again
osu! is really just a rhythm game where you can actually reuse the skills developed in stepmania, taiko, jubeat, DJMAX
the game's different but the logic stays the same, follow the song and focus on reading
osu! is really just a rhythm game where you can actually reuse the skills developed in stepmania, taiko, jubeat, DJMAX
the game's different but the logic stays the same, follow the song and focus on reading
please stop, you're making yourself look completely retardedInfevo wrote:
Noone, i repeat NOONE, is gonna look up the particular snap divisor with the editor when talking about a certain map's part just to be 100% correct with your imaginative definition of Osu!'s beat design. Simply, because it is inconvenient.cheezstik wrote:
Go to a mapping thread with your music theory and everyone will be confused.
When I search for a beatmap with streams of a certain speed I can easily find some simply by checking the bpm within the map's page. Can you believe it? I don't need the divisor to make sure I find the right map for my needs. Can't be too much different then from my idea, can it? Regardless of the particular snap divisor in use for mapping that song I am still 100% sure I get what I want. How? Applying simple music theory.
I also repeat. This is a rhythm game based around actual music. Your comparison of enforcing one's language on other nations is not off just a little.
not like it matters to me, anyway.
Elaborate or shut up.buny wrote:
please stop, you're making yourself look completely retarded
not like it matters to me, anyway.
cheezstik has already elaborated itInfevo wrote:
Elaborate or shut up.buny wrote:
please stop, you're making yourself look completely retarded
not like it matters to me, anyway.
You don't go into a community and force a different terminology
You don't go to USA and force the metric system. You can bitch all you want about inches, feet, yards etc. but you're never going to change the system no matter what, and all you're doing is wasting your own time and everybody you're trying to argue with. In the end, the system they use is primitive and means the exact same thing translated
Damn, I see baguette. I knew I should've gone to the doctor before it was too late Kappacheezstik wrote:
^Look at that picture. What do you see? I see bread. In fact, most people with proper eye sight would see bread.
I also think that note counting of common music theory is more comfortable but that's just habit. There really speaks nothing against osu's counting.
You're right that you don't need the divisor but that doesn't make osu's counting bad just because it's different. You can't argue it's bad. Counting time is completely arbitrary. You could say that the whole world uses a different system to count time but seeing the first few points in this thread shows that most people assume that one's posts refer to the osu counting system.Infevo wrote:
When I search for a beatmap with streams of a certain speed I can easily find some simply by checking the bpm within the map's page. Can you believe it? I don't need the divisor to make sure I find the right map for my needs. Can't be too much different then from my idea, can it? Regardless of the particular snap divisor in use for mapping that song I am still 100% sure I get what I want. How? Applying simple music theory.
The beat divisor does make sense by the way. 1/2 and 1/1 notes (talking in general music theory terms) are not very frequent in osu and counting bars with 4 1/4 notes is unnecessary too as recurring motives don't play as much of a role in beatmap crafting as they do in "real" beats of songs.
He did neither elaborate on it properly nor am I enforcing anything different. I was the only one explaining anything to be precise. He was talking about the snap divisor in the editor which totally misses the point.buny wrote:
cheezstik has already elaborated it
You don't go into a community and force a different terminology
You don't go to USA and force the metric system
I gave several examples and reasons.
The mere fact that almost EVERY map's bpm is given in 4ths and the divisor doesn't change the bpm no matter how you partition your beat totally concedes a point to me.
then read his post,Infevo wrote:
He did neither elaborate on it properly nor am I enforcing anything different. I was the only one explaining anything to be precise. He was talking about the snap divisor in the editor which totally misses the point.buny wrote:
cheezstik has already elaborated it
You don't go into a community and force a different terminology
You don't go to USA and force the metric system
I gave several examples and reasons.
or is it wrong because it's not typed up in german?
in the sense of music theory, he's wrong. In the sense of the osu! system, he's right. Which is what we're discussing and since we're on an osu! forum, then the terminology he is using is correct.
Infevo wrote:
Noone, i repeat NOONE, is gonna look up the particular snap divisor with the editor when talking about a certain map's part just to be 100% correct with your imaginative definition of Osu!'s beat design. Simply, because it is inconvenient.cheezstik wrote:
Go to a mapping thread with your music theory and everyone will be confused.
When I search for a beatmap with streams of a certain speed I can easily find some simply by checking the bpm within the map's page. Can you believe it? I don't need the divisor to make sure I find the right map for my needs. Can't be too much different then from my idea, can it? Regardless of the particular snap divisor in use for mapping that song I am still 100% sure I get what I want. How? Applying simple music theory.
I also repeat. This is a rhythm game based around actual music. Your comparison of enforcing one's language on other nations is not off just a little.
Just a tiny example, but basically, #modhelp is where generally people that know how to map or at least have some knowledge of the game help you out. This is like 2 mins worth of opinions. I'm sure if I asked an extremely experienced mapper (think BD, or Skystar level experienced, for example) on what 1/4 notes in osu are, they'd say the same thing. I'm sure if you went into the mapping forums and looked through the threads, everyone would refer to 1/4 notes as the same thing. That's because that's what you refer to them as in osu, if you refer to them according to musical theory, you're gonna cause confusion like what's happened in this thread.
You dont even notice you contradict yourself by generalizing 1/4s as streams when each snap divisor defines it differently? Dude...cheezstik wrote:
Just a tiny example, but basically, #modhelp is where generally people that know how to map or at least have some knowledge of the game help you out. This is like 2 mins worth of opinions. I'm sure if I asked an extremely experienced mapper (think BD, or Skystar level experienced, for example) on what 1/4 notes in osu are, they'd say the same thing. I'm sure if you went into the mapping forums and looked through the threads, everyone would refer to 1/4 notes as the same thing. That's because that's what you refer to them as in osu, if you refer to them according to musical theory, you're gonna cause confusion like what's happened in this thread.
You automatically assume 1/1 snap divisor would be the norm for most maps which is not even the case for easy maps.
The way you asked in #modhelp was not even clear for some. One guy wasn't even sure. Pretty sure the other guys don't know what they are talking about either.
And let me add, by far not everyone maps. Most players don't even know what the divisor does.
I lack to see how this is relevant.buny wrote:
or is it wrong because it's not typed up in german?
I need someone to TL;DR me this arguement.
I'm just gonna make up a statistic here and say that in 95% of all maps, streams are 1/4. Big Black was already mentioned along a few others but I can't remember any map I've played that doesn't handle it that way.
Besides, cheez was only showing that mappers use osu's system to count. Whether streaming is 1/4, 1/2 or 1/8 was irrelevant.
Besides, cheez was only showing that mappers use osu's system to count. Whether streaming is 1/4, 1/2 or 1/8 was irrelevant.
So let me clear this up a little. You are saying that in a 180bpm 4/4 beat song streams are the 4ths. This means 180 clicks per minute? Hilarious =]Saphirshroom wrote:
I'm just gonna make up a statistic here and say that in 95% of all maps, streams are 1/4. Big Black was already mentioned along a few others but I can't remember any map I've played that doesn't handle it that way.
Besides, cheez was only showing that mappers use osu's system to count. Whether streaming is 1/4, 1/2 or 1/8 was irrelevant.
Why they are asking the bpm is because some maps are double BPM, such as Big Black, which is 360BPM instead of 180 (Which is what the song actually is), and uses 1/2 notes for the streams. Another example is GoldenWolf's Kage - unravel, which uses a really slow BPM but has some double speed (1/8) streams. Generally, 1/4 is the standard for streaming, used by freedom dive, d.m.c, gimme gimme, mendes, nearly any stream map you can think of off the top of your head.Infevo wrote:
You dont even notice you contradict yourself by generalizing 1/4s as streams when each snap divisor defines it differently? Dude...cheezstik wrote:
Just a tiny example, but basically, #modhelp is where generally people that know how to map or at least have some knowledge of the game help you out. This is like 2 mins worth of opinions. I'm sure if I asked an extremely experienced mapper (think BD, or Skystar level experienced, for example) on what 1/4 notes in osu are, they'd say the same thing. I'm sure if you went into the mapping forums and looked through the threads, everyone would refer to 1/4 notes as the same thing. That's because that's what you refer to them as in osu, if you refer to them according to musical theory, you're gonna cause confusion like what's happened in this thread.
You automatically assume 1/1 snap divisor would be the norm for most maps which is not even the case for easy maps.
The way you asked in #modhelp was not even clear for some. One guy wasn't even sure. Pretty sure the other guys don't know what they are talking about either.
And let me add, by far not everyone maps. Most players don't even know what the divisor does.
It's satireInfevo wrote:
I lack to see how this is relevant.buny wrote:
or is it wrong because it's not typed up in german?
You're saying that one particular terminology is wrong, because it means something else in another.
If you fail to see the connection, you are an idiot
I am done conversing with you.
I'm pretty sure you're trolling at this point but in case you genuinely don't understand: I was talking about 1/4s in osu's counting.Infevo wrote:
So let me clear this up a little. You are saying that in a 180bpm 4/4 beat song streams are the 4ths. This means 180 clicks per minute? Hilarious =]Saphirshroom wrote:
I'm just gonna make up a statistic here and say that in 95% of all maps, streams are 1/4. Big Black was already mentioned along a few others but I can't remember any map I've played that doesn't handle it that way.
Besides, cheez was only showing that mappers use osu's system to count. Whether streaming is 1/4, 1/2 or 1/8 was irrelevant.
Sensless bs between 2 stubborn people.B1rd wrote:
I need someone to TL;DR me this arguement.
failed communication between the alien and the humanB1rd wrote:
I need someone to TL;DR me this arguement.
180bpm 1/4 in osu terms, where each white tick is one beat.Infevo wrote:
So let me clear this up a little. You are saying that in a 180bpm 4/4 beat song streams are the 4ths. This means 180 clicks per minute? Hilarious =]Saphirshroom wrote:
I'm just gonna make up a statistic here and say that in 95% of all maps, streams are 1/4. Big Black was already mentioned along a few others but I can't remember any map I've played that doesn't handle it that way.
Besides, cheez was only showing that mappers use osu's system to count. Whether streaming is 1/4, 1/2 or 1/8 was irrelevant.
this is a stream, and there are 4 notes for each white tick. hence 1/4. there are exceptions, but usually we refer to even those as "double"/"half" bpm. now please shut up
buny wrote:
It's satire
You're saying that one particular terminology is wrong, because it means something else in another.
If you fail to see the connection, you are an idiot
I am done conversing with you.
During this "conversation" you managed to insult me twice and not give a single valid point while even failing to properly make use of the definition of a satire. Still, don't understand how being "German" is related to the urge of having everything translated into the respective language.
So, if mappers speak of 1/4s they refer to actual 16ths notes a musician would interpret as streams? Bpm is measured in whole notes instead of 1/4s. How do you call 1/2s and 1/1s?cheezstik wrote:
Why they are asking the bpm is because some maps are double BPM, such as Big Black, which is 360BPM instead of 180 (Which is what the song actually is), and uses 1/2 notes for the streams. Another example is GoldenWolf's Kage - unravel, which uses a really slow BPM but has some double speed (1/8) streams. Generally, 1/4 is the standard for streaming, used by freedom dive, d.m.c, gimme gimme, mendes, nearly any stream map you can think of off the top of your head.
confirmed retard
do i need to translate it into german to get you to read my posts? Your lack of reading comprehension is beyond help
do i need to translate it into german to get you to read my posts? Your lack of reading comprehension is beyond help
I'm not sure, maybe 1/1 and 1/2 in music translated to osu are 1/0.25 and 1/0.5, kinda weird I guess, but you'll barely every see them anyway, so you won't have to refer to them nearly ever.Infevo wrote:
So, if mappers speak of 1/4s they refer to actual 16ths notes a musician would interpret as streams? Bpm is measured in whole notes instead of 1/4s. How do you call 1/2s and 1/1s?cheezstik wrote:
Why they are asking the bpm is because some maps are double BPM, such as Big Black, which is 360BPM instead of 180 (Which is what the song actually is), and uses 1/2 notes for the streams. Another example is GoldenWolf's Kage - unravel, which uses a really slow BPM but has some double speed (1/8) streams. Generally, 1/4 is the standard for streaming, used by freedom dive, d.m.c, gimme gimme, mendes, nearly any stream map you can think of off the top of your head.
are you going to keep addressing my insults and not bother reading my argument?
I gave you a reason and an example on the second post on why you are wrong, but I guess you would rather just cry about meanie words
I gave you a reason and an example on the second post on why you are wrong, but I guess you would rather just cry about meanie words
Take any 1-2 star map. You'll have a snap div of 1/1 to map this more conventiently. Speaking in musician terms you will have several 1/2s and 1/1s notes.cheezstik wrote:
I'm not sure, maybe 1/1 and 1/2 in music translated to osu are 1/0.25 and 1/0.5, kinda weird I guess, but you'll barely every see them anyway, so you won't have to refer to them nearly ever.Infevo wrote:
So, if mappers speak of 1/4s they refer to actual 16ths notes a musician would interpret as streams? Bpm is measured in whole notes instead of 1/4s. How do you call 1/2s and 1/1s?
Not only on easier diffs. Some bars end on 1 or 3 with a whole or a half note.
You know what I mean? We talk about 2 different things. Mapping terminology is not bpm related as musician terms. That's why we kinda miss each other's points I guess.
In any case. I will stick to my terminology. Even if I someday would pick up mapping. I come from a musician's background. It doesn't feel right to twist my understanding.
I went through the last pages and didn't see a single valid and reasonable statement from you. All you do is behave like scum.buny wrote:
are you going to keep addressing my insults and not bother reading my argument?
I gave you a reason and an example on the second post on why you are wrong, but I guess you would rather just cry about meanie words
Didn't you want to stop "conversing" in the first place?
buny wrote:
cheezstik has already elaborated itInfevo wrote:
Elaborate or shut up.
You don't go into a community and force a different terminology
You don't go to USA and force the metric system. You can bitch all you want about inches, feet, yards etc. but you're never going to change the system no matter what, and all you're doing is wasting your own time and everybody you're trying to argue with. In the end, the system they use is primitive and means the exact same thing translated
In osu!, they're called 2/1 and 4/1...well, at the very least, 2 beats of separation is called 2/1. I don't think I've ever seen someone use "4/1" to refer to anything because when there's that much separation it's just a short break and no one cares to refer to the interval.cheezstik wrote:
I'm not sure, maybe 1/1 and 1/2 in music translated to osu are 1/0.25 and 1/0.5, kinda weird I guess, but you'll barely every see them anyway, so you won't have to refer to them nearly ever.
Yet some people like to constantly stress "rhythm" game.ZenithPhantasm wrote:
This is osu not music class.
Yeah, you[-Cloud-] wrote:
And with people you mean that german guy.
Time to stop