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The Road to Cookiezi-Tier

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Woobowiz
412 posts
Joined March 2014
Topic Starter
Woobowiz

winber1 wrote:

i am best fl player
pls stop aRgument
Stop being modest, you're obviously the best player period.

Also, farmed some pp today ;w; #gettingPPwhilesick
I'm so deathly ill right now I can't eat anything or else I'll just vomit it out. Gave up trying to eat after the 5th trip and another "Oh god it's up my nose, why does it sting"
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
I'd laugh if some random FLHD'd Remote Control and took #1 spot.
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

B1rd wrote:

I'd laugh if some random FLHD'd Remote Control and took #1 spot.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/79116 ?
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/297411&m=0
those confirmed better than sayonara-bye.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
DTFL is where it's at
Varetyr
794 posts
Joined December 2011
Varetyr

Tess wrote:

DTFL is where it's at
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/505278?m=0 ?
xGx
173 posts
Joined December 2013
xGx

B1rd wrote:

I'd laugh if some random FLHD'd Remote Control and took #1 spot.
yoshilove used to have a HDFL fc on it before getting banned(?), don't remember if it was #1 though?
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
HDHRFL, #3
xGx
173 posts
Joined December 2013
xGx

Tess wrote:

HDHRFL, #3
Oh right, impressive
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
EZ HT FL is where it's at

you guys obviously have not seen true skill yet.
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger

Tess wrote:

Though that said FL is easier on other modes than standard so maybe the FL rankings could be std only
Certainly not easier on CtB.. If anything then its even harder than on std. FL is really hard with jumps and CtB maps are very jumpy, plus you cant flail your flashlight around to locate stuff - the catcher is too slow for that. Doubt its easier on Taiko, you need to read the patterns there far ahead, but i dont know much about Taiko. Mania doesnt have fl afaik (Replaced by fadeIn/Out?).
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

Granger wrote:

Tess wrote:

Though that said FL is easier on other modes than standard so maybe the FL rankings could be std only
you cant flail your flashlight around to locate stuff - the catcher is too slow for that.
That probably only applies to slower maps though on standard, if you have time to move the cursor around to locate the circle then you are probably playing a pretty slow map, or are a pro cursor dancer.
SomeLoli
SomeLoli
flashlight hax 2 stronk
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa

winber1 wrote:

EZ HT FL is where it's at

you guys obviously have not seen true skill yet.
FL is always easier on slower maps provided that you can read them

Granger wrote:

Tess wrote:

Though that said FL is easier on other modes than standard so maybe the FL rankings could be std only
Certainly not easier on CtB.. If anything then its even harder than on std. FL is really hard with jumps and CtB maps are very jumpy, plus you cant flail your flashlight around to locate stuff - the catcher is too slow for that. Doubt its easier on Taiko, you need to read the patterns there far ahead, but i dont know much about Taiko. Mania doesnt have fl afaik (Replaced by fadeIn/Out?).
Okay let me line it up for you:

Catch the Beat requires you to memorize objects across an x axis
Taiko requires you to memorize rhythmic patterns
osu!Mania requires you to memorize objects across an x axis, and their respective rhythms nothing
osu!Standard requires you to memorize objects across an x and y axis, and their respective rhythms

FL on Standard is objectively harder than it is on other modes. I don't play Taiko but I know that on Standard I can memorize a map's rhythm in 1-2 plays if it's short, and in 3-5 plays if it's >4 minutes. Never tried to FL anything above 6-7 minutes so I can't say much about that, but I think it's safe to say that most of the memorization goes into placement, not rhythms, and since Standard has two aim dimensions (up/down and left/right) whereas CtB has only one (left/right) as well as no rhythm requirements at all, I think it's safe to say that std is harder than all those other modes.

Also Mania does have FL, or at least I remember reading about it on the wiki.
Last edited by Nyxa , edited 1 time in total.
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
FL is sightreadable in osu!mania, it is not even considered a difficulty increasing mod for some.
x_Co0ki420ezi_x
178 posts
Joined November 2012
x_Co0ki420ezi_x

Tess wrote:

Okay let me line it up for you:
a guy with virtually no playcount outside standard giving lectures on mods he doesnt play

ayyy
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger
Look, Tess, with FL in CtB theres no guideline on which you can orient to, when you dash somewhere the fruit you're supposed to catch is either there or it isnt and you miss. Theres no approach rate for you to help you since your flashlight is stuck on the end of the screen.
Most of the time you cant even see where the next fruit is, or even get a hint of it. You need to memorize far more, even if its only on the x axis, its all jump jump jump here. No conviently close placed notes so you can see the next note(s), which you wont need to memorize.
Nor do you have any time to guess, the slightest delay causes you to miss.

You're basing your conclusion on theory alone.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
And you aren't?

First of all, you're acting like standard is a compilation of conveniently close placed notes. There are those kinds of maps, yeah, but that doesn't mean that all of them are - there are plenty of crazy jump maps in standard as well, and even though there are followpoints, those aren't an absolute way to follow the map's patterns, especially since the area is dimmed whenever you're holding a slider. On top of that, after 200 combo the area gets reaaally tiny, and you can only really see in a small radius around your cursor. Besides just having to aim, there's also the tapping aspect - you need to memorize the rhythms as well as the locations of the notes and still hit them accurately while staying focused on the playfield patterns so that you don't miss. Most of the time you can't know where the next note is once you get to that small area, and there isn't any time to guess in standard either.

You're heavily underestimating FL in standard, really. I've played enough of CtB to know that there is absolutely no way for something as simplistic (all you need to do is aim from left to right, there is little to no dynamic in it, and you need 0 sense of rhythm to play it) as CtB. Do note that "simplistic" does not mean "easy", however, in this case, if you were to take a map such as remote control and weigh the difficulty of FCing it between std and ctb, std would win that by far. There is no way you can compare the difficulty of remote control's jumps on std to those on ctb. If you can't realize that then you are both ignorant and dense.
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
you clearly havent played enough ctb
Deathripi
67 posts
Joined January 2014
Deathripi
I finally stopped playing LoL. Time to follow this road and start playing. My playcount is too damn low :D
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger

Tess wrote:

First of all, you're acting like standard is a compilation of conveniently close placed notes
Im not, i know there are super jumpy maps in std, but the vast majority isnt like Remote Controll or (more extreme) Eighto, while this is pretty much the standart in CtB since almost all of its difficulty comes from jumps.

On top of that, after 200 combo the area gets reaaally tiny, and you can only really see in a small radius around your cursor.
Yeah and? Its not like that doesnt happen in CtB, except that this tiny area is locked on the end of the screen.

Besides just having to aim, there's also the tapping aspect - you need to memorize the rhythms as well
Didnt you say earlier that that isnt any kind of more difficult, that you'd manage to do that in only 1-2 plays? You need to do that in CtB too, unlike you said below, CtB DOES require rythm feel, your clicking on the note here is replaced by having to move as soon you caught the fruit.

You're heavily underestimating FL in standard, really.
Maybe i am, and so are you underestimating how much of a help things like follow points and approach rates are when using FL.

I've played enough of CtB to know that there is absolutely no way for something as simplistic (all you need to do is aim from left to right, there is little to no dynamic in it, and you need 0 sense of rhythm to play it) as CtB.
With 93 plays? Hardly. I bet you havent even played a platter (translates into normal for std), or came across zigzag patterns (moving back and forth at a frequency determined by the BPM, how is that possibly requiring 0 sense of rythm?), just to name a example.

if you were to take a map such as remote control and weigh the difficulty of FCing it between std and ctb, std would win that by far. There is no way you can compare the difficulty of remote control's jumps on std to those on ctb.
Oh of course you cant, its a converted map after all, which is mapped much differently than CtB maps.

Kurokami wrote:

A small jump (around 2.0x) in CtB is a high one in Standard.
Lets see, remote controll is considered a "for pros" map? Why dont you compare it to a delunge then (translates to extra in std)?

Anyways, this is much offtopic, why dont we take that somewhere else?
Last edited by Granger , edited 1 time in total.
Illkryn
269 posts
Joined November 2012
Illkryn
Why argue about std when you don't have any std experience :^)

Also extra diffs can be in no way compared to DT maps like that. It is vastly beyond extra difficulty.

Additionally, you are underestimating the difficulty of FL in std, it's not easy in either game mode and requires memory of the map for both.
Your lack of experience of std shows in your argument and likewise for ctb.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

Granger wrote:

plus you cant flail your flashlight around to locate stuff
I'm sorry, do you actually think flailing your cursor around is a viable way to locate objects in standard FL?
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
yes it is
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
Maybe at really low object densities, but why would FL be impressive at really low object densities?
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
val0108 passed airman FL that way
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

silmarilen wrote:

passed
So what?
sayonara_sekai
376 posts
Joined November 2010
sayonara_sekai
i could let my 55 yo mother with zero gaming experience play CTB and she would figure it out. Wouldnt happen with any other mode
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

Narrill wrote:

silmarilen wrote:

passed
So what?
what so what?
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
Why is one player's pass on an HP3 map indicative of the viability of mouse-flailing? You can miss whole patterns in airman and still pass.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
Yeah passing Airman isn't really a good way to back an FL argument up
Even I can get like halfway through Airman FL on a good day

Also, you're acting as though I'm implying that FL with CtB isn't hard. I'm sure that it can be /very/ hard, but on two maps of roughly the same difficulty level between std and ctb, std would be harder because std is objectively harder than ctb as a mode in itself, purely due to having way more variables and functions. You will never have to deal with awkward or hard to read sliders in ctb. Spaced streams for you won't play much differently than stacked streams because all you do is go from left to right to left to right. I know very well that that doesn't make CtB easy but if you think that a game solely focused around left right left right is harder than a game with two dimensions where you have an entire playfield and infinite possibilities of visual patterns as well as a tapping aspect (CtB players will never have to stream or deal with doubles), then you are really dense, haha

For the record though, Narrill, I've personally found higher object densities to be easier than lower ones with FL

Flailing never does anything significant.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik
Ye but guys, let's be real here, in std you move up, down, left, right and click in rhythm at the same time. In ctb, you move.... left and right... The same applies to those modes + FL, the memorization is probably much easier with that much less to memorize, you can't really say you can find the notes by flailing your cursor around, cos you really can't do that unless you are playing extremely slow maps, or maps with really small or a lack of jumps.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

Tess wrote:

For the record though, Narrill, I've personally found higher object densities to be easier than lower ones with FL
I'm not talking about the overall difficulty, just the efficacy of flailing as a means to locate notes.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
Oh okay, misunderstood then.

And cheezstik basically gives a non-sleep deprived version of what I was trying to say
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
I wouldn't brush off ctb as an objectively easier mode. Neither mode is more difficult than the other as both have unique characteristics that vary in terms of difficulty from player to player. Ctb's biggest difficulty factor by far is the incredibly strict keyboard accuracy, as not only do you have to time when to tap but also when to release, and for red jumps your looking at under 10ms hit window that determines the difference between fc and combo break. The precision is phenomenal.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

cheezstik wrote:

Ye but guys, let's be real here, in std you move up, down, left, right and click in rhythm at the same time. In ctb, you move.... left and right... The same applies to those modes + FL, the memorization is probably much easier with that much less to memorize, you can't really say you can find the notes by flailing your cursor around, cos you really can't do that unless you are playing extremely slow maps, or maps with really small or a lack of jumps.
(agreeing with quote more or less)

I mean, we are trying to compare something in 2 dimensions to something in 1 dimension. Sounds kind of pointless. In fact, if you could flail around in standard you could flail around in ctb. In either case you have to flail around enough to find the circle/fruit in time. It's not like every hitcircle sits on the screen from the start waiting for it's time to be hit.

(Note: depending on how nonsensical we want to be, we can actually argue each game to be in any number of dimensions we want).
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger
Its like saying driving a train is easier than driving a car because a car can go left and right... you guys are completly ignoring any other factors in play.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

Granger wrote:

Its like saying driving a train is easier than driving a car because a car can go left and right... you guys are completly ignoring any other factors in play.
The subtle movements in CTB are a lot harder to execute than the ones in standard, thats for sure
big jumps are a lot harder to time with the way movement is limited unlike in standard, etc

but FL is still 'easier' than standard
xGx
173 posts
Joined December 2013
xGx
FL is tricky in CtB, on harder difficulties like Overdoses, Rains etc. You don't see FL plays often in the leaderboards. Still it's kind of comparing 2 different things, hard to say which one I find more difficult.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa

KukiMonster wrote:

I wouldn't brush off ctb as an objectively easier mode.
Oh my god why do you people keep acting like we're downtalking CtB as a mode? We're saying that FL is easier on CtB than on std because CtB has less gameplay factors to it than std. All you need to memorize is left or right while with std there's a myriad of different things to take into account, not to mention sliders dimming your field of vision even further while held. Your car analogy is shitty because driving a train is harder than driving a car. That doesn't mean that driving a car is easy, that just means that driving a train is harder.

You're basically saying that because I say that $1,100,00 is more than $1,000,000, somebody with 1 million is a broke fuck. Stop doing that, it's really annoying and doesn't contribute to the discussion at all, besides making you look dense. CtB is not harder than std period. That doesn't mean it's not hard, or that Dear You on std is harder than Big Black on CtB. It means that Big Black on CtB is easier than Big Black on std.

If you don't believe me,
ask the fucking map itself


Seriously.
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