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Why this advice didnt work?

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Topic Starter
Vesrand
This tactic explained here: t/187364/
Ahh this one. What can I say this one is going to be a bit hard to explain without some sort of diagram but I'll give it a shot. Okay so lets go over the seemingly most hated jumps by players, squares. I know with squares THE STRUGGLE IS REAL but to all those people who say "I can't do squares" maybe the problem isn't you, more likely, the problem is the way that you are looking at it.

Okay squares 4 notes spread out on the map that are equidistant from each other they can come in many different styles; typical squares, diamonds, rectangles (which aren't totally equidistant but you get what I mean). The biggest problem I see is people are trying to think of squares as well... squares instead of individual jumps. What I mean by that is people try to make a square with their cursor in one motion instead of 3 different jumps. It's okay squares are intimidating and even reading them the correct way can get people confused but I'll try to explain what I've found to be the best way to do squares.

With squares you want to think of them as individual jumps between notes rather than just one square. Think of it like this, a square can be broken up into 3 individual jumps (unless it's repeating in which case it can be broken up into multiple different jumps) but it still comes back down to the basic pattern. Rather than thinking of it as a square, think of it as jumping between 2 notes in 3 different intervals. What I mean by that is jump (1-2) then (2-3) then (3-4) get out of the 1 2 3 4 mindset (oh god this one's not looking so good) let me try to expand on this.

When doing a square instead of counting the notes in your head as 1,2,3,4 think of it more rhythmically in sets of 1 and 2. Count the notes 1,2 1,2. What I'm trying to say is realize that a square is merely one jump vertically one jump horizontally and then another jump vertically. When you change your way of thinking about it they should make more sense. Basically break the square up into two parts rather than taking it all in as a whole. It's a lot easier to do them if you realize that they're all movements you can easily make assuming you can probably jump up and down and left and right pretty easily by now you just have to think outside the box (pun definitely intended).

Think of it this way with any jumps you learned how to do you probably don't think of it as one motion you break it up into multiple smaller movements between the notes. I think that squares are a lot easier when you look at the follow points. The follow points give you the best way to do just about any jump but I find them to be more useful with squares. The way the follow points connect the two notes is the way you should be moving. Practice moving with the follow points that way you'll be less likely to make circles when doing squares. This may be pretty hard to follow but if I had to boil it down to one thing it would be break shapes down into individual jumps.
Indeed thats what i do - follow the patterns and i have big problems with squares. When you focus on the last appeared object you can just memorize everything that appeared before and make a pattern in you mind and then just follow this pattern with cursor. But if i dont follow patterns then i have to focus on next note that i'm going to press. Then how it is possible to read map? When i tried this tactic it made my play much worse. I couldnt even pass maps that are very easy for me. So what i did wrong?
gregest
just post more to the forums,that's gonna help... srsly,just play the damn game
Nathan
Reading a tip doesnt magically fix all your problems
-sev

Vesrand wrote:

But if i dont follow patterns then i have to focus on next note that i'm going to press. Then how it is possible to read map?
Reading as patterns: ✘

Reading notes individually: ✔

Vesrand wrote:

When i tried this tactic it made my play much worse.
Because you are not used to reading a map properly.

Vesrand wrote:

So what i did wrong?
You don't focus on each note individually. Simple as that.

Judging from the attitude of your post, you might as well give up.
Topic Starter
Vesrand
Judging from the attitude of your post, you might as well give up.
No no. I was just thinking about what playstyle is better and that bring me to forums hoping to find answers here. I will experiment more. Yes yes.

just post more to the forums,that's gonna help... srsly,just play the damn game
I've been just playing the game til now. But lack of progress in my skill lately made me think that just playing wont help. Seriously i'm already lvl 100 with 36k playcount but still can't do s**t.
GoldenWolf
Doesn't matter how much playcount you have if you spent them on easy maps
Gumpy
Not gonna read that assume it says play more.
B1rd
I recommend getting a tablet.
ERA Puzzle

Vesrand wrote:

Judging from the attitude of your post, you might as well give up.
No no. I was just thinking about what playstyle is better and that bring me to forums hoping to find answers here. I will experiment more. Yes yes.

just post more to the forums,that's gonna help... srsly,just play the damn game
I've been just playing the game til now. But lack of progress in my skill lately made me think that just playing wont help. Seriously i'm already lvl 100 with 36k playcount but still can't do s**t.
Critically analyze yourself. I have no idea what your skill level is at, but I tend to: Pick songs at about my level (I'd consider a song "about" your level if you can get an 75-90 on. Large margin but it's not too hard and not too easy.) Play these songs, if I can't beat them spend around 10~ tries on the song. Any more, and I stop preforming on the map and lose focus, any less, and I feel like I'm not analyzing or reaching my potential on the map.

During every playthrough, whether I can do it or not - I make mental note of my mistakes. I was a little off on the timing of that ntoe, I didn't follow through the slider, it was a jump and I didn't reach. I keep that in mind for next play-through and try to improve off of that.

I feel like if you don't analyze your mistakes, even if you play a ton, you will probably advance at a slower rate.

Obviously this is my own system and may not work for you. Experiment and try to find out what works. Though I find that analyzing what I'm doing helps a ton. Mindlessly grinding games, is, well, mindless. I doubt you can improve too much doing that.
winber1
if your profile pic is a little shit, you're bound to be a little shit as well

all i'm saying man
gregest
^
Almost
From what I can tell you read patterns as patterns. You should try to read everything, including patterns, as individual circles and just focus on each circle as you have to click them.
dung eater
imo it's fine to think about patterns, as long as you are aware of all the circles in the patterns

shouldn't count in your head, try to find the sounds in the song the jumps resemble and tap to those (they usually make sense)

i don't think squares are anything special, just knowing the movement you have to do after each circle will let you do any pattern. if you pay attention to the movements you do when playing, you'll notice and most likely learn from your mistakes more (you should have done x but you did y, try to do x next time)
Topic Starter
Vesrand

DJPuzzle wrote:

Critically analyze yourself. I have no idea what your skill level is at, but I tend to: Pick songs at about my level (I'd consider a song "about" your level if you can get an 75-90 on. Large margin but it's not too hard and not too easy.) Play these songs, if I can't beat them spend around 10~ tries on the song. Any more, and I stop preforming on the map and lose focus, any less, and I feel like I'm not analyzing or reaching my potential on the map.

During every playthrough, whether I can do it or not - I make mental note of my mistakes. I was a little off on the timing of that ntoe, I didn't follow through the slider, it was a jump and I didn't reach. I keep that in mind for next play-through and try to improve off of that.

I feel like if you don't analyze your mistakes, even if you play a ton, you will probably advance at a slower rate.

Obviously this is my own system and may not work for you. Experiment and try to find out what works. Though I find that analyzing what I'm doing helps a ton. Mindlessly grinding games, is, well, mindless. I doubt you can improve too much doing that.
Thanks for advice. I just found that watching my replay at 0.5 speed is a good way to notice my mistakes.

Well sometimes my movements looks so wierd in slowmo :) For example this map http://osu.ppy.sh/b/300689 at 00:53:161 i perfectly followed all this short sliders but missed because pressed buttons at wrong time) lol

winber1 wrote:

if your profile pic is a little shit, you're bound to be a little shit as well

all i'm saying man
Nobody likes little teemo :(
Vuelo Eluko

winber1 wrote:

if your profile pic is a little shit, you're bound to be a little shit as well

all i'm saying man
bump

i wonder what makes people cringe more, pony avatars or league of legends avatars
buny
drink vodka
sayonara_sekai
i died laughing when my friend linked me some article saying playing osu will improve your league of legends "mechanics" (lol) and micro (even though the game has none).

guess people who play that game will grasp at any straw so they can escape "elo hell" :lol:
Topic Starter
Vesrand

Riince wrote:

league of legends avatars
I used teemo from lol as avatar in osu before it was mainstream)

phonics wrote:

guess people who play that game will grasp at any straw so they can escape "elo hell" :lol:
omg that is most stupid thing i've ever heard @_@
I think the real reason is that both games are somewhat related to anime. Or at least to some cute cartoons.

buny wrote:

drink vodka
I havnt drink any alcohol since i was 13. Now i'm 25)
Vuelo Eluko

phonics wrote:

i died laughing when my friend linked me some article saying playing osu will improve your league of legends "mechanics" (lol) and micro (even though the game has none).

guess people who play that game will grasp at any straw so they can escape "elo hell" :lol:
the fact that LoL can be played at a professional level with a trackball and yet i havent seen anyone even passing 5 star maps with one on osu shows how irrelevant cursor mechanics are in league and how useless playing osu to try to get better at league would be.
ERA Puzzle

phonics wrote:

i died laughing when my friend linked me some article saying playing osu will improve your league of legends "mechanics" (lol) and micro (even though the game has none).

guess people who play that game will grasp at any straw so they can escape "elo hell" :lol:
The games are literally completely and utterly different. I don't know how that article got any traction at all...
Rewben2

phonics wrote:

i died laughing when my friend linked me some article saying playing osu will improve your league of legends "mechanics" (lol) and micro (even though the game has none).

guess people who play that game will grasp at any straw so they can escape "elo hell" :lol:
It's to improve muscle memory, providing you use the same sensitivity for both games. Of course it won't magically make you better at league but this is how it's meant to help. It would only help you if you suck at aiming your mouse in league and find yourself misclicking/misaiming your mouse though.
Karuta-_old_1
it amazes me how people think actions per minute is important when they can't even aim their attacks properly
chainpullz
There is micro in league but you don't get giant fucking circles to aim for, music to listen for and approach circles to baby you to the right clicks and timing. With that said, this level of micro has like 0 benefits in most situations whereas in osu, you have to aim and time things multiple times a second for long durations. The longest period of time you have to micro in league is like the duration of a 15 second team fight and you need to time at most 5 clicks per second with the average being probably about 2.5 a second. Basically what I'm trying to say is they are very different things and it's not worth comparing them. They are both difficult in their own right though bad micro isn't terribly hindering in league.
Rewben2

chainpullz wrote:

The longest period of time you have to micro in league is like the duration of a 15 second team fight and you need to time at most 5 clicks per second with the average being probably about 2.5 a second
That's the exact point. Playing league does not challenge your ability to aim/be precise with mouse movements nearly as much as osu! does, therefore playing osu! helps improve it much more effectively. And do keep in mind, just because a teamfight is only 15 seconds it doesn't mean it isn't important.

chainpullz wrote:

There is micro in league but you don't get giant fucking circles to aim for
Uhh the hitboxes in league you have to click on are very comparable to the "giant fucking circles" in osu! you have to aim for. I know the games are not comparable as far as rhythm goes and approach rates blah blah, but aiming your cursor is the same.
x_Co0ki420ezi_x
LOL kids with l2p issues in moba games are funny as shit. You must be more retarded than a fucking retarded monkey with it's brains scooped out if you can't manage to click around the huge as shit, slow moving enemies on your screen. Moba esports is some cringeworthy shit.
chainpullz
League is a decision game and osu is a rhythm game. The difficulty in micro in league is not derived simply from aiming a cursor at a hitbox, it's about making the correct decisions on which hit boxes to aim for and which direction to immediately make you move click in. In osu you need much more accurate cursor movement but you literally have 0 decisions to make. The cursor specifics between the games are not even comparable and if you fail to see that then you are as delusional as the author of that article. Both games are difficult to play at the top level and playing one will not improve your ability to play the other.
x_Co0ki420ezi_x
Do you even know what microing is? You can't micro with one unit.

Or if that's some retarded moba language then I don't care.
buny

thedamntrain wrote:

Do you even know what microing is? You can't micro with one unit.

Or if that's some retarded moba language then I don't care.
you are thinking of macro management

micro is one unit
chainpullz

buny wrote:

thedamntrain wrote:

Do you even know what microing is? You can't micro with one unit.

Or if that's some retarded moba language then I don't care.
you are thinking of macro management

micro is one unit
Apparently I'm just retarded for playing other games. I think someone is just a little salty.
buny
um no clue why you are quoting me
Rewben2
Ignore damntrain

chainpullz wrote:

The difficulty in micro in league is not derived simply from aiming a cursor at a hitbox, it's about making the correct decisions on which hit boxes to aim for and which direction to immediately make you move click in.
I know that. That's why it improves your >>mechanical<< skill, not your decision-making. Choosing what target to aim for and what direction to move in depending on the situation is decision-making, not just aiming your mouse. Which is what I've been saying it helps with. Don't confuse what I'm saying it helps with.

chainpullz wrote:

The cursor specifics between the games are not even comparable

chainpullz wrote:

playing one will not improve your ability to play the other.
How so? They are both flat games and if you're playing at the same sensitivity, moving from point x to point y should be exactly the same for each game. I said that "It would only help you if you suck at aiming your mouse in league and find yourself misclicking/misaiming your mouse". If you don't have this problem then there's nothing to improve in that sense.

Improving and developing your muscle memory from playing one game and then transferring it to another game with the same sensitivity definitely seems valid to me.
Vuelo Eluko
the game is like 20% last hitting, 40% decision making, 39% map awareness and 1% the mouse/keyboard skills that you passively develop well enough while developing the other 3 aspects to get you to any level of play

'mechanics' mostly fall under decision making
chainpullz
@buny was explaining why you CAN'T POSSIBLY be right.

I think if you have issues with aiming in general in league it is much more likely due to some combination of a shitty mouse or shitty mouse settings than it is a complete lack of motor skills. Neither of which you can really fix from playing osu.

Riince wrote:

the game is like 20% last hitting, 40% decision making, 39% map awareness and 1% the mouse/keyboard skills that you passively develop well enough while developing the other 3 aspects to get you to any level of play
The difference in mechanical skill between carry players at the professional level does include mouse/keyboard skills. Granted we are literally talking about the top .0001% or something so yeah, 1% could still be a good figure even when looking at this extreme subset of players.
Rewben2

chainpullz wrote:

I think if you have issues with aiming in general in league it is much more likely due to some combination of a shitty mouse or shitty mouse settings than it is a complete lack of motor skills. Neither of which you can really fix from playing osu.
It may be because of bad mouse settings. I still say it can be helped from playing osu!, though. Just that one aspect though.

Riince wrote:

the game is like 20% last hitting, 40% decision making, 39% map awareness and 1% the mouse/keyboard skills that you passively develop well enough while developing the other 3 aspects to get you to any level of play
The 1% being mouse/keyboard is likely true at higher levels of play. At lower levels of play you may be underestimating how small that factor is though, plenty of people would make simple mistakes when it comes to clicking/pressing keys and are in need of improving that factor.
winber1
pls let's be friends guys

i brought an inspirational quote from link to pacify the situation
SPOILER

as long as we have circles to click, no anger shall harm us
-link2014
buny
i have inspirational quote


as long as we have circles to click, no anger shall harm us
-link2014

-buny2015
Rewben2

winber1 wrote:

pls let's be friends guys
we are being friends :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

as long as we have circles to click, no anger shall harm us
-link2014

-buny2015

-rewben2016
Nathan

buny wrote:

i have inspirational quote


as long as we have circles to click, no anger shall harm us
-link2014

-buny2015
i cri
ZenithPhantasm
I noticed improvement in my circle clicking skills from playing osu :)


In all seriousness I noticed my aim is more consistent in fps games but thats basically it.
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