Match results please.

Results are always added to wiki by the end of all matches
never the less:

China	2	5	South Korea 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10507941
Australia 	2	5	Netherlands 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10508932
Ukraine 	5	1	Taiwan 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10509978
Sweden 	5	3	Japan	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10510938
Poland 			France 	
Germany 			Russian Federation 	
United Kingdom 			Austria 	
Argentina 			United States 	
				

Let me kick in to explain a few things:

Please consider that this tournament, for us, the managers, is very stressful, as in we get bombarded with a lot of questions, blames, issues, stuff (not to speak of the secondary business running parallely to the OWC), therefore it can result in getting a bit more hectic and heated up in the Match Rooms as we actually intend it to be.

For the case everyone talking about: Yes, I am sorry, it turned out like that. I understand the implication that this odd passive joke may not have warranted a silence under this circumstances, yet please understand that several people were already blaming me for silencing Happyjon, who pretty much got himself silenced by BanchoBot for spamming #minecraft (his fault, we can not revoke BanchoBot silences). Let's say, I was pretty much agitated people spamming me already with that stuff. This said, some rosters or players here intentionally or unintentionally eat up time without any clear purpose. They chitchat in the Match Rooms, delay the picks, do not listen to the management at all, they pretty much do what they want. Sure we start to put pressure then, by letting them only 1 minute time to decide their pick, to decide their substitute, to get ready (in case someone has to pee, he can say it beforehand and we can wait for another 2 mins or something, that's totally fine). But most delays are unneeded delays. Whilst the viewers are moaning about "why does it take so long", the players mostly just mess around. And then they tell me constantly "to chill" or to "calm down please", whereas they take literally 15 minutes to pick 1 map. Consider, that there are also other matches running that we want to stream, fully. From start to end. People being selfish enough to delay the match needlessly, because they don't care about the other matches (because we have to delay the runner-up ones sometimes for this slow behavior), I start to give time limits.

If people constantly make fun of more for that or start to still mess around, ignore the managements requests and then start to make passive-aggressive jokes, just because to be funny or to agitate me, then yes, I can overreact. Okay, it was an overreaction in this specific case. Luckily, Netherlands won anyways, so at least this was no loss directly.

Anyways, for the future: Please respect that the tournament is constructed around a tight schedule, especially to comfort viewers and players the most, considering all the time zones and masses of players antipiciating this event. Therefore, also respect that if we give you a request, you shall follow it. If we ask you to pick a map within 1 minute, do not take yourself 2 minutes. Do not discuss 5 minutes for exchanging people. Do not start to talk about your latest birthday party. Try to make the match go fluent and fast, so everyone is calm and happy. (refer to the Japan vs Sweden match). I know you all have a strategy or want to play trump cards. That's totally fine. But you have 1 week to prepare yourself on all maps, you also have all the time you need to prepare the maps you want to ban and all the possilble rosters you want to use for a specific map. You also could already plan ahead who uses what mod in a freemod pick. This is all planable. Every delay you can reduce from your side makes everything happier and fluent. Ultimatively, I revoked the silence from HappyStick and I apologize sincerely for the issue, yet beg for your understanding that this was a fault that does not solely lies on my side.

Whereas I promise to be more chilled and calm, polite and nice, I ask you all, players and viewers, to also be more disciplined and respectful towards the tournaments, its rules and the requests of the referee.

Thanks for your attention.

Just something, but I do believe in some cases 1 minute might not really be enough, especially if the opposite team picks one of the maps you'd already planned, things dont work out as you thought, or similar, and you have to talk to your whole rooster through ingame-pm or something. While I don't really know how the chat has been, or how the matches have been going in general, but just throwing it out for what it's worth.

CXu wrote:

Just something, but I do believe in some cases 1 minute might not really be enough, especially if the opposite team picks one of the maps you'd already planned, things dont work out as you thought, or similar, and you have to talk to your whole rooster through ingame-pm or something. While I don't really know how the chat has been, or how the matches have been going in general, but just throwing it out for what it's worth.

You can use all language-specific channels on OWC bancho for that. They are existing and empty (in case PM is too complicated). But yeh, well, even if we say 1 minute, they usually just need 20 seconds (average). When someone surpasses the 1 minute, I tend to poke them again, finally ending up at 2 minutes, anyways. We mostly only give the cap for rosters being known for taking unnecessary time anyways.

I just want to say that I really appreciate your answer Loctav and that you have my respect.

I can respect your point of view and I will accept

While I respect the response and apology, it doesn't really change the fact that the staff team's first reaction to people getting (justifiably) pissed off by this was to go "oh shit, we better silence and ban anyone who even mentions it". I understand that many of these were rescinded, but that's still an awful reaction to anyone simply bringing up a concern they have, and the issue is that it happened at all.

Sorry loctav but you're failing to prove yourself as a mod who can handle this job time and time again. it is so sad to see that the only way you handle things is by silencing people. use a better method that can maybe gain some respect for you because right now, no one has any for you.

"Luckily Netherlands won anyways" <-- are you serious? think about this quote

you're right. it is very lucky netherlands won because if they lost because the shitstorm would be 50x greater.


Im actually going to post this because this is absolutely disgusting behaviour for a mod. just such a childish way of handling things.

*I understand that it must be unbelievably stressful from the feedback of the community (even myself) but you're just not allowed to do this. its nothing more than abusing your power. Im sure its just plain frustrating when people dont listen to you but you need to think about your actions and what consequences may come from them. please. please.

First of all, thanks for the reply, Loctav! Really appreciate it.

But I can see why community is upset at the way the tournament is ran.
I won't go over the multi-account and OWC-ban because it's been done to death already and if Eph's word is worth anything then it will be handled differently in the next OWC's (if they happen, that is).
Another issue you addresed already, needless silences in the lobby and barring from further play. As long as you tone it down and 'chill', I think it should get better. Try to be friendlier with players, if the only memories they have from the tournament is silences and the war of community vs staff then players won't want to play in the next OWC's and the community won't want to support it any further.

Now for the issues that I don't think have been addresed:
Tone down the twitch chat moderation, come on. It's twitch chat, you cannot expect 100% positive feedback and friendly discussion. Allow memes, emotes, don't blacklist words (Cookiezi). Allow the chat to have some fun, if they start spamming, laugh at it, they'll stop in a few minutes. There won't be riots if you do stuff properly. Getting on popular streamer's bad side can't end with anything else than the death of the chat.
The biggest problem I have is censorship and shuffling all the problems under the rug. Trying to make the tournament look good while being bad. The casters don't mention any bancho problems or players getting barred from play. "What a surprise! Taiwan was so good last year and now they lost vs Ukraine!", suure, I wonder why. Happystick obviously disconnected because of Bancho's fault, looks obvious enough to anyone who watched his stream, and you told him to shut down any net applications/the stream to fix it. Fartownik got perma banned from osulive chat because he said it was bancho's fault that Happystick dc'd. The community appreciates transparency.

Cheers.

I pretty much agree with what Welil states here.
There are just a lot of unadressed issues here, even with that apology from Loctav.

By the way isn't it an option to just tell people to speed up in a nicer way than just pushing timelimits?
If you're getting told you have a minute to decide, you can pretty much only do a snap decision after 3 seconds. Its not like you can really discuss anything because you put the player in a pressured situation.
The better way in my opinion is to write stuff like: "guys can you speed up, the viewers are waiting." and such.
This way people will speed up (unless they are purposely mean) and they dont get pressured more than nescessary.

The point about twitch chat/censorship has already been made, but also try taking it into account, since it really lowers enjoyment a lot to know that stuff gets hidden/ you cant express your opinion properly in a livechat.

What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".

Welil wrote:

What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".

haha you have no idea how stressful it is to handle a tournament do you..

-Ryuujii- wrote:

Welil wrote:

What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".

haha you have no idea how stressful it is to handle a tournament do you..

Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.

Cola wrote:

Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.

And you think they haven't tried? The only reason why things boil down the way they do is because being nice doesn't work out the first time. Throwing around idealism in a setting like this will not work often.

All of this 'Disconnects shouldn't count and should replay' is all well and good but let's say that a team is doing shit and one player, regardless of anyone else on the team, unplugs his router so a restart happens. Not only is this cheating, and somewhat unfair, it wastes everyone's time.
If there was some sort of limit on it, like 'You can have 3 restarts per match if a player disconnects' then that may help the problem. However, let's say that one or two players unplug their routers to get a restart, then someone legit disconnects. It's the same problem, but somewhat worse.

@ryuujii and whoever bothers to read this

There are better methods that dont result in diminishing every bit of respect every OWC fan has for you and effectively getting the entire community to hate you.
and what Welil and Cola said is one of them. talk with the players and try to be lenient and 'nice' instead of forcefully asserting your dominance and censoring every single person who dares talk about it. What on earth do you even gain from doing that.

Twitch Chat

the strategy is to suppress the voice of thousands of people for "spamming" and when you set them free, you immediately suppress them again because the pressure released came out too strong. like ???? what are you even doing???? what Welil wrote about twitch chat was completely on point and I say good job! thats exactly how it should be done.

and handling a tournament is stressful, but handling a tournament is even more stressful when everyone hates or is flaming at you and your co-workers (mainly your fault to begin with) but that is still no reason to act childish. how Loctav argued in my last post is exactly how a Minecraft Admin would do it. pathetic. shows unprofessional-ism when they tried to make this tournament overly professional.


i'll laugh if this gets removed because it only proves my point which I made in my last post. :3 but I see no reason why it should.

this is my last post ill make on this whole topic. dont worry. my discussion ends here. : )

Makan1 wrote:

@ryuujii and whoever bothers to read this

There are better methods that dont result in diminishing every bit of respect every OWC fan has for you and effectively getting the entire community to hate you.
and what Welil and Cola said is one of them. talk with the players and try to be lenient and 'nice' instead of forcefully asserting your dominance and censoring every single person who dares talk about it. What on earth do you even gain from doing that.

Twitch Chat

the strategy is to suppress the voice of thousands of people for "spamming" and when you set them free, you immediately suppress them again because the pressure released came out too strong. like ???? what are you even doing???? what Welil wrote about twitch chat was completely on point and I say good job! thats exactly how it should be done.

and handling a tournament is stressful, but handling a tournament is even more stressful when everyone hates or is flaming at you and your co-workers (mainly your fault to begin with) but that is still no reason to act childish. how Loctav argued in my last post is exactly how a Minecraft Admin would do it. pathetic. shows unprofessional-ism when they tried to make this tournament overly professional.


i'll laugh if this gets removed because it only proves my point which I made in my last post. :3 but I see no reason why it should.

this is my last post ill make on this whole topic. dont worry. my discussion ends here. : )

Blaming the staff when the players are acting like 12-year olds even when the schedules are tight will get you absolutely nowhere.
Try looking at this from the staff's perspective.

Lust wrote:

Cola wrote:

Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.

And you think they haven't tried? The only reason why things boil down the way they do is because being nice doesn't work out the first time. Throwing around idealism in a setting like this will not work often.

And completely ignoring all suggestions in the idealism will lead to things never changing.

The attitude from the administration is that of a spoiled 16 year old girl. Nothing is their fault and everyone should change to suit their preferred way of running things. We've gotten an apology for an outburst. That's it. Everything else has been excuses. Justification for rash actions is not what is needed. The fact they even try to justify the shitstorm going on speaks volumes. From refusing to take blame for awful Bancho connectivity, to twitch chat moderation, to player management, this has been a dumpster fire.

If a consumer wants a product, but the product doesn't perform its duty, the consumer will call the manufacturer for an explanation. If the only explanation they get is excuses for the broken product, why would the consumer ever go back to that company for anything ever again? It's the exact same concept here. Stop making excuses for yourselves and fix your product.

Pannari wrote:

Blaming the staff when the players are acting like 12-year olds even when the schedules are tight will get you absolutely nowhere.
Try looking at this from the staff's perspective.

Schedules are only tight for the group stages. You have a lot more breathing space when you come to the direct elimination stages.

Gigo wrote:

Pannari wrote:

Blaming the staff when the players are acting like 12-year olds even when the schedules are tight will get you absolutely nowhere.
Try looking at this from the staff's perspective.

Schedules are only tight for the group stages. You have a lot more breathing space when you come to the direct elimination stages.

This. There was a 4 hour break between Japan/Sweden and Poland/France. There's nothing tight about that schedule.

FIRETRUCK LEWANDOSKI, BENZEMA IS SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER ;w;
RIP France ;w;
GG Poland.

Can anyone explain me this:



Tom SS 1447 combo. I didn't SS but I have more combo and more score than him. Mh. Wat xD Bug?

Guess it's a bug or something like that, look at me and sayo here for example.

Andrea wrote:

Guess it's a bug or something like that, look at me and sayo here for example.

A hack or something *-*

Uh okay.

EDIT: LOL YALES, maybe?

Spinners hidden power ?

I demand some special investigation into these suspicious scores, h4XX0rz are everywhere


Also GG France

Word to describe the queen right now:

wreck

verb

= destroy, break, total (slang), smash, ruin, devastate, mar, shatter, spoil, demolish, sabotage, trash (slang), ravage, dash to pieces, kennet (Australian, slang), jeff (Australian, slang) • Vandals wrecked the garden.

Teams play Darude - Sandstorm for warm-up, chat goes wild. What do the moderators do? Ban random people who say 'Dududu' and then killing the hype by turning on sub-mode again.

Honestly, maybe there needs to be a readjustment of the moderators on the osulive channel after today? People who can tell the difference between 'shitty spam' and 'having a Twitch chat experience' would be nice for next week.

Whoever was on osulive said that theyre considering to "abandon" the twitchchat.
Basically, they'll let the chat do whatever they want to do but they also dont read questions etc from there.

99% of the timeouts in the Twitch chat are done by a bot, and the sub-only was a mistake that will hopefully not happen again.

I do not think abandoning twitch chat is a solution either though. I still think they need to interact somehow, which should be possible, considering some streamers interact with the members who ask questions, by seeing through the spam posts and insults.

@Xytox, yes, the bans are mostly automatic, but that's because the moderators put in certain phrases/words that will automatically time people out.

Can someone provide a link to match between Sweden and Japan? Or at least explain what the hell happend there for Japan to loose?

Novalogic wrote:

Can someone provide a link to match between Sweden and Japan? Or at least explain what the hell happend there for Japan to loose?

They got rekt.

fartownik wrote:

Novalogic wrote:

Can someone provide a link to match between Sweden and Japan? Or at least explain what the hell happend there for Japan to loose?

They got rekt.

shrekt*

Someone just mentioned this to me and I think the same. I believe the winner of the Winner's Bracket (the one advancing to the final) should have an advantage of 1 map and perhaps an automatic roll win over the finalist that comes out of Loser's Bracket. This is how it's done in any tournament that uses Loser's Bracket (CS:GO for example) and I don't see why this couldn't be implemented here as well.

China	2	5	South Korea 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10507941
Australia 	2	5	Netherlands 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10508932
Ukraine 	5	1	Taiwan 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10509978
Sweden 	5	3	Japan	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10510938
Poland 	5	1	France 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10517306
Germany 	5	3	Russian Federation 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10518861
United Kingdom 	2	5	Austria 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10520060
Argentina 	2	5	United States 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10521646

full list before wiki updates.

Schedule n stuff is released

fartownik wrote:

Someone just mentioned this to me and I think the same. I believe the winner of the Winner's Bracket (the one advancing to the final) should have an advantage of 1 map and perhaps an automatic roll win over the finalist that comes out of Loser's Bracket. This is how it's done in any tournament that uses Loser's Bracket (CS:GO for example) and I don't see why this couldn't be implemented here as well.

As far as I can tell the loser bracket's winner needs to win 2 matches against the winner bracket's winner as it stands right now (just imagine a best of 3 where the first loss does not necessarily come from the actual enemy).

Yeah, usually for tournaments with best-of-whatever, the loser bracket team has to win two best-of-whatever in order to win the whole thing, while the team from the winner bracket only has to win one.

This would make sense if you consider every team starts with two chances before they're kicked out of the tournament.

Looks like this year OWC is full of surprises and missing best players ( Snowwhite, SmallK, Rafis, rrtyui, and so on ). Maybe There is a chance to overthrow Korea after all

Chewin wrote:

Can anyone explain me this:



Tom SS 1447 combo. I didn't SS but I have more combo and more score than him. Mh. Wat xD Bug?

Ingame score (and combo) was correct, though. Seems to me like the data written to the website skipped the last few things some of the clients sent. :p

By the way, for the next round, perhaps it'd be a cool idea to have a little after stream for an hour or so. Just invite players who just had their match and discuss the maps, the thrill of playing owc, etc. etc. It's insanely fun to hear a bunch of pro players discuss their tactics, views on osu!, and all that stuff. See it like having a little post-match interview.

GladiOol wrote:

By the way, for the next round, perhaps it'd be a cool idea to have a little after stream for an hour or so. Just invite players who just had their match and discuss the maps, the thrill of playing owc, etc. etc. It's insanely fun to hear a bunch of pro players discuss their tactics, views on osu!, and all that stuff. See it like having a little post-match interview.

That would be a pretty good idea. And could give a bit more time between matches (say, 1;30 instead of 1;00).

GladiOol wrote:

By the way, for the next round, perhaps it'd be a cool idea to have a little after stream for an hour or so. Just invite players who just had their match and discuss the maps, the thrill of playing owc, etc. etc. It's insanely fun to hear a bunch of pro players discuss their tactics, views on osu!, and all that stuff. See it like having a little post-match interview.

I like this idea.

GladiOol wrote:

By the way, for the next round, perhaps it'd be a cool idea to have a little after stream for an hour or so. Just invite players who just had their match and discuss the maps, the thrill of playing owc, etc. etc. It's insanely fun to hear a bunch of pro players discuss their tactics, views on osu!, and all that stuff. See it like having a little post-match interview.

this

Xytox wrote:

99% of the timeouts in the Twitch chat are done by a bot, and the sub-only was a mistake that will hopefully not happen again.

Thank god. The chat mods are making the stream very unenjoyable and I hope this is true.

Gladi's post states my point perfectly.

I think it's just the case of the powers that be not being very familiar with the community of twitch chat. It's a very unique experience and timing out for emotes and cutting off chat completely because of spam is going to get you the exact opposite of what you want. Just a heads up for next week, if there is spam you don't want happening, just turn on R9k mode. You don't have to go on a timeout spree or shut down chat.

I am very familiar with twitch chat. That doesn't change my opinion on moderation. If you don't like it then please do not watch. osulive is our channel run by our staff. This is our turf, not yours. Go to another twitch channel if you want your free reign.

As long as I am watching on and helping run an event, I will make sure anything that we have control over is under control to something I am comfortable with. If you would like to have your anarchy in chat, please re-host the stream and run your own chat.

Subscriber mode was not a mistake. It will be used again if people botspam the chat.

peppy wrote:

(...)If you would like to have your anarchy in chat, please re-host the stream and run your own chat.(...)

Waiting for this to happen on a bigger scale now and whether or not this is really what you want to happen.

peppy wrote:

If you don't like it then please do not watch..

Fantastic way to promote a product. 10/10.

GladiOol wrote:

By the way, for the next round, perhaps it'd be a cool idea to have a little after stream for an hour or so. Just invite players who just had their match and discuss the maps, the thrill of playing owc, etc. etc. It's insanely fun to hear a bunch of pro players discuss their tactics, views on osu!, and all that stuff. See it like having a little post-match interview.

Actually we tried to have this at the end of group stage. Well the plan was me, Raiku, jesse, and ztrot in stream showcasing the mappool and talk about knock out stage but we had issues with stream so we didnt go on. I do agree with your idea Gladi it is cool idea. I would definitely want one after the quarters.

peppy wrote:

If you don't like it then please do not watch.

This kind of attitude is what is ruining the experience for many people. Please try to understand that.

The alternative is streaming on my own service and bypassing twitch, to avoid what comes with hosting on twitch (horribly immature behaviour, endless new accounts which cannot be banned and therefore continue to cause havoc in chat, huge automated bot spam etc.).

I have been looking into this recently and maybe consider it for future official tournaments, if it is feasible from a logistics perspective.

Also, I agree that we should have after-match streams with further discussion. This would add a lot to the experience.

Cola wrote:

Waiting for this to happen on a bigger scale now and whether or not this is really what you want to happen.

How much clearer did you need him to make it?

peppy wrote:

The alternative is streaming on my own service and bypassing twitch, to avoid what comes with hosting on twitch (horribly immature behaviour, endless new accounts which cannot be banned and therefore continue to cause havoc in chat, huge automated bot spam etc.).

I have been looking into this recently and maybe consider it for future official tournaments, if it is feasible from a logistics perspective.

Streaming on your own might work for the 'endless new accounts' part of the story, but the horribly immature behaviour is something you will not be able to control either way. Also, I have never actually seen automated bot spam (just view bots), in my 2 (?) years I've been a Twitch viewer. Not even the big League of Legends tournaments get spammed by bots, these are all normal people having their Twitch chat experience.

I think streaming the tournament on your own service is a very bad idea if you look at the marketing part for Osu as well. Osu is growing as a whole, but if you're going to host it on your own private server, no one will know Osu! tournaments even exist, aside from the people frequenting the forum or checking out Twitter. I think the people casually checking out Twitch and seeing a sudden rise in viewers for a game they have never heard of, will at least make them click on the tournament stream to see what's up.

Post-match discussion with the players would be a nice touch, and for the Twitch chat I can't really say anything. It's pretty much just spam when someone breaks combo/disconnects/somethingbadhappens. Such is the nature of Twitch chat though.

I will however agree with what Morurc said, it's probably best if osu! was kept on Twitch when it comes to major tournaments such as OWC. Although there will be a major influx of trolls/spammers, more people are watching and this will bring new players in.
Plus brand new players might be encouraged by the high level of play to become better or whatever.

Damn you Twitch chat y u do dis.

nvm

i think other people made the point clear

I can see the post-interview idea being a really good idea, but I can see it being even more stress on just about everybody (especially tournament staff). I can also see some people not wanting to do it because they're not comfortable talking in front of a lot of people, or are not confident in their english skills and are afraid to make mistakes.

But other than that, I would support it.

Peppy...there was no bot spam

this was only 3k people rioting about the same thing. and this 'riot' is minuscule compared to league chats.
goes to show how much you actually know about twitch. I think you need another member on your team of elites to handle twitch. and someone experienced.

the riot literally would've died down in like 10 mins TOP
chill.

Post-interviews will be cool. There is always some fun stuff happening on almost every match
The problem is only when to do this. You can't really make it right after the match because chances are it will overlap with another running match
Doing this a few days later is obviously not a good idea too
But yeah it will be interesting to hear

Makan1 wrote:

the riot literally would've died down in like 10 mins TOP
chill.

I wasn't handling it (was in transit at the time), but I agree with the decisions made. There's no harm in turning off chat to let people calm down. And it worked.

And yes, I do understand that twitch gives the game popularity, but that's not one of my primary goals. I have never wanted to see the game grow faster than it naturally is. Yes, from a "marketing" and "profits" perspective this is just stupid, but osu! is not a commercial project to me, even though it may be so by nature.

peppy wrote:

I wasn't handling it (was in transit at the time), but I agree with the decisions made. There's no harm in turning off chat to let people calm down. And it worked.

Considering people are still arguing about it right now at this very moment, I wouldn't say it "worked".

The main reason 'it worked' was because 99% of the people who were 'rioting' got timed out for 10 minutes, lol.

If gaining popularity isn't your primary goal for the OWC, what is your goal exactly? I mean.. I can only applaud you for not thinking purely business, but what is it that you strife for then?
- Entertainment value? A part of this is the Twitch chat experience. However immature you may find it, it's still valuable to a lot of people (if that wasn't apparent enough by the discussion going on at the moment).
- Esports viability? With how unstable the client is (e.g. disconnects from Bancho), this is incredibly hard to achieve at the moment. Unless you're gonna make a local tournament, so that people can play offline (and this is pretty much impossible to achieve).
- Bringing the community together? It sure is working, just not the way you probably intended it to.

Now listen, take what you want from whatever I'm saying, I mean.. I've been playing this game for only 4-5 months, so what do I know? But I do think there could and should be a change in the way this tournament (and even the game as a whole, not really relevant to this particular discussion though) is being handled.

peppy wrote:

Makan1 wrote:

the riot literally would've died down in like 10 mins TOP
chill.

I wasn't handling it (was in transit at the time), but I agree with the decisions made. There's no harm in turning off chat to let people calm down. And it worked.

And yes, I do understand that twitch gives the game popularity, but that's not one of my primary goals. I have never wanted to see the game grow faster than it naturally is. Yes, from a "marketing" and "profits" perspective this is just stupid, but osu! is not a commercial project to me, even though it may be so by nature.

What is the primary goal for OWC then? Most of not all e-sport tournaments are either made for entertainment or to promote the game. Unless you're enjoying the drama that is coming out on the forums and reddit, I don't really understand what you're trying to do with OWC.

peppy wrote:

Subscriber mode was not a mistake. It will be used again if people botspam the chat.

I was mostly just referring to the sub mode when people were spamming "dududu" when Darude - Sandstorm was playing. It was removed almost instantly after it was put on. That's why I called it a mistake, because I assumed all the moderators agreed it was okay for the viewers to spam that just once.

All the other occasions when sub mode was put on I have no saying in.

things are out of your control

Plaatinum wrote:

What is the primary goal for OWC then? Most of not all e-sport tournaments are either made for entertainment or to promote the game. Unless you're enjoying the drama that is coming out on the forums and reddit, I don't really understand what you're trying to do with OWC.

Probably bring some friendly competition to the top players, and some enjoyment to the spectators. Which in most cases, it does achieve.

The tournament is for players' enjoyment, specifically those playing and those interested in watching. Trust me that the majority of viewers are enjoying it, and the majority of players are enjoying their time in the tournament. If not then they are free to not participate.

Bancho "instability" is actually not bancho's end, but the user's. Unfortunately most osu! players are not diligent about their personal security and tehrefore succumb to being attacked by others with relatively weak DoS attacks.

I'm not going to continue posting in here, as I'd rather this discussion was about the amazing plays we've seen so far.

peppy wrote:

The tournament is for players' enjoyment, specifically those playing and those interested in watching. Trust me that the majority of viewers are enjoying it, and the majority of players are enjoying their time in the tournament. If not then they are free to not participate.

Bancho "instability" is actually not bancho's end, but the user's. Unfortunately most osu! players are not diligent about their personal security and tehrefore succumb to being attacked by others with relatively weak DoS attacks.

I'm not going to continue posting in here, as I'd rather this discussion was about the amazing plays we've seen so far.

Is it possible to make the viewer experience a bit better by delaying the stream for about a minute so we don't get any lag or ghost misses? On the stream, half the combo breaks are usually not actually combo breaks, and it makes the whole viewing experience very anti-climatic.

The stream is already buffered. The "fake misses" are being actively worked on, and should be fixed by next weekend. It's more complex than you may think. That said, "fake misses" are already at the point where they recover within 1 second. The audio desync was due to some experimental code that was tested this weekend which performed poorly. I didn't have much control over that and was not present when it was deployed, else I would not have allowed it.

But that Japan vs Sweden match, right? Am I the only one that found it entertaining?

peppy wrote:

The stream is already buffered. The "fake misses" are being actively worked on, and should be fixed by next weekend. It's more complex than you may think. That said, "fake misses" are already at the point where they recover within 1 second. The audio desync was due to some experimental code that was tested this weekend which performed poorly. I didn't have much control over that and was not present when it was deployed, else I would not have allowed it.

But that Japan vs Sweden match, right?

I only just remembered this, so I thought I might add on as well.

Another way to improve viewer experience would be to increase the background dim. We're here to watch the players play, and bright backgrounds always blend with the circles and its especially hard to see notes when watching the stream on a lower quality.

peppy wrote:

But that Japan vs Sweden match, right? Am I the only one that found it entertaining?

nope : ) I was grabbing my hair when Sweden won because the only asian team that I cared about lost. really surprising how in the span of 1 year, players can grow in immense potential and take down some of the strongest players. I hope to see more of it when Austria shreks the next team they face. I wonder if an Austria V Germany match is possible because thats what I wanna see. but the way its going, I really looks like thats gonna happen *_*

Makan1 wrote:

I wonder if an Austria V Germany match is possible

only in the loser bracket because nl is going to wreck germany

silmarilen wrote:

Makan1 wrote:

I wonder if an Austria V Germany match is possible

only in the loser bracket because nl is going to wreck germany

woooooooo

shots fired

or in the finals, how would you like that?

peppy wrote:

I am very familiar with twitch chat. That doesn't change my opinion on moderation. If you don't like it then please do not watch. osulive is our channel run by our staff. This is our turf, not yours. Go to another twitch channel if you want your free reign.

No, this is our turf as well. We play this game. We view this game. We experience this game just like you guys do. The entertainment value will be far greater when chat is moderated by the correct people. You don't like the twitch chat - fine. Then leave it yourself perhaps. I'm sorry, but this logic seems childish to me. I can understand one not liking twitch chat, but the civil discussion is being held in #owc. The hype chat is twitch chat. Both needs are being represented, one through the in-game client and one through twitch. We do not need a heavily moderated hype channel only because you do not like the hype.

Plaatinum wrote:

peppy wrote:

The stream is already buffered. The "fake misses" are being actively worked on, and should be fixed by next weekend. It's more complex than you may think. That said, "fake misses" are already at the point where they recover within 1 second. The audio desync was due to some experimental code that was tested this weekend which performed poorly. I didn't have much control over that and was not present when it was deployed, else I would not have allowed it.

But that Japan vs Sweden match, right?

I only just remembered this, so I thought I might add on as well.

Another way to improve viewer experience would be to increase the background dim. We're here to watch the players play, and bright backgrounds always blend with the circles and its especially hard to see notes when watching the stream on a lower quality.

Talking about skinning change, I know there is a reason to use the default skin and it's all cool but couldn't we make the 300s transparent? It's really hard to keep up when player is dropping his accuracy, especially on stream heavy maps or with names like WubWoofWolf or AmaiHachimitsu that are too long to see accuracy % on the screen.

WWW carry

poland ftw

here2pown wrote:

WWW carry

poland ftw

Say it once more, I double dare you

Jetzu wrote:

Plaatinum wrote:

increase the background dim. We're here to watch the players play, and bright backgrounds always blend with the circles and its especially hard to see notes when watching the stream on a lower quality.

300s transparent? It's really hard to keep up when player is dropping his accuracy

I support this. Invisible 300s are pretty much part of every personal skin as it gets seriously obstructive during game play. The OWC has higher level maps which means an even great amount of notes so for simplicity sake omitting the constant 300s would help the viewers get a better view of the play.

GladiOol wrote:

peppy wrote:

I am very familiar with twitch chat. That doesn't change my opinion on moderation. If you don't like it then please do not watch. osulive is our channel run by our staff. This is our turf, not yours. Go to another twitch channel if you want your free reign.

No, this is our turf as well. We play this game. We view this game. We experience this game just like you guys do. The entertainment value will be far greater when chat is moderated by the correct people. You don't like the twitch chat - fine. Then leave it yourself perhaps. I'm sorry, but this logic seems childish to me. I can understand one not liking twitch chat, but the civil discussion is being held in #owc. The hype chat is twitch chat. Both needs are being represented, one through the in-game client and one through twitch. We do not need a heavily moderated hype channel only because you do not like the hype.

From what I saw in the video clip, that looked more like a digital riot. Plus, people were spamming the Twitch chat so they needed to stop the disruption somehow because I'm sure of any of the mod were to tell them to stop, they would keep spamming. I said this in the osu subreddit but, the osulive stream, to me, is mainly for watching seeing as the chat "normally" is zipping by so quickly. Anyways, I'm off to sleep. Godspeed everyone and that's my purse, I don't know you.

-Ephemeral- wrote:

Jetzu wrote:

increase the background dim. We're here to watch the players play, and bright backgrounds always blend with the circles and its especially hard to see notes when watching the stream on a lower quality.

300s transparent? It's really hard to keep up when player is dropping his accuracy

I support this. Invisible 300s are pretty much part of every personal skin as it gets seriously obstructive during game play. The OWC has higher level maps which means an even great amount of notes so for simplicity sake omitting the constant 300s would help the viewers get a better view of the play.

I dont think there is a need for invisible '300's. there are plenty of players who still use a visible '300' but what they do need to change is the 300, 100, and 50 because they all look the fking same and its impossible to tell if a player hit a 300 or a 100. On the VERY old skin, you can see the 300, 100, 50, but not the hitcircle. now you can see the hitcircle but cant distinguish between the 300,100,50..... will there ever be a balance?

??? something weird happened with the quoting looollolo so manual

GladiOol wrote:

peppy wrote:

I am very familiar with twitch chat. That doesn't change my opinion on moderation. If you don't like it then please do not watch. osulive is our channel run by our staff. This is our turf, not yours. Go to another twitch channel if you want your free reign.

No, this is our turf as well. We play this game. We view this game. We experience this game just like you guys do. The entertainment value will be far greater when chat is moderated by the correct people. You don't like the twitch chat - fine. Then leave it yourself perhaps. I'm sorry, but this logic seems childish to me. I can understand one not liking twitch chat, but the civil discussion is being held in #owc. The hype chat is twitch chat. Both needs are being represented, one through the in-game client and one through twitch. We do not need a heavily moderated hype channel only because you do not like the hype.

Amen.
Especially about the bold parts.

To me, this is exactly as if you went to a professional soccer match, and expected the spectators to... just... "behave themselves" and silently watch the match while holding a serious discussion about the performance of the players in the stadium. This will NEVER happen, thankfully, because of that hype.
Soccer supporters want to show how much they love their team, and overall, just want to have fun. Which is achieved by screaming, shouting, singing, praising a player when he scores, taunting an opponent who's messing up, doing the wave, being mad at the referee's decisions if they find it unfair, etc.
What do we have in twitch chat ? People supporting their teams, cheering them, praising their favorite players ( ヽ(｡･ω･｡)ﾉ raise your rrtyui's ヽ(｡･ω･｡)ﾉ ), making fun of that only guy who didn't FC while his whole team FC'd, being mad at the referee's decisions (like someone gets DC'd and the point is still given to the other team for example), etc.

And guess what, people enjoy it. Yes, this is what the twitch chat is all about, the "hype". Just as Gladi said, the civil discussion is held on #owc + forums, just let us shout it out on twitch. I perfectly understand that some people might hate it, but in the end it doesn't hurt anyone. Prohibiting it would irritate quite a lot of people, though.
(oh and please stop banning the Kappa emote on twitch. Like, seriously, twitch without Kappa is like a Street Fighter game without Ryu. You wouldn't remove Ryu, would you ? e_e)

If street fighter looked like this, sorry but I would remove Ryu.

peppy wrote:

If street fighter looked like this, sorry but I would remove Ryu.

That must be pretty fucking awesome to play, though.

GladiOol wrote:

peppy wrote:

I am very familiar with twitch chat. That doesn't change my opinion on moderation. If you don't like it then please do not watch. osulive is our channel run by our staff. This is our turf, not yours. Go to another twitch channel if you want your free reign.

No, this is our turf as well. We play this game. We view this game. We experience this game just like you guys do. The entertainment value will be far greater when chat is moderated by the correct people. You don't like the twitch chat - fine. Then leave it yourself perhaps. I'm sorry, but this logic seems childish to me. I can understand one not liking twitch chat, but the civil discussion is being held in #owc. The hype chat is twitch chat. Both needs are being represented, one through the in-game client and one through twitch. We do not need a heavily moderated hype channel only because you do not like the hype.

^This.

Twitch chat is twitch chat, thats just what it is, and people love it. Even if there's a riot, let them riot for 5 minutes. They'll stop eventually and everything's fine. Thats how this works. Taking something away and tons of silences will make them remember forever though.
You can take stuff like Kappa away from the osu chat, sure. But taking twitch away from twitch is rather dumb/lame.

There's several ways to ignore the chat anyway, just make it full screen or use windowed mode or something.

Minifrij wrote:

There's several ways to ignore the chat anyway, just make it full screen or use windowed mode or something.

or just click the hide button

peppy wrote:

If street fighter looked like this, sorry but I would remove Ryu.

I could deal with it. The Ryus, not the removal.

here2pown wrote:

WWW carry

poland ftw

can this please stop it is so annoying

www fcing with nomod, farto fcing with hr on freemod, who gets hyped by chat AND commentators? www of course.
3 people on polish team have same acc, commentators: "look at this amazing acc from www"

i basically have to mute the stream when poland is playing because it is SO annoying.
yes he is a good player and shit but this is just going too far and disrespecting all the other players too much.

cptnXn wrote:

here2pown wrote:

WWW carry

poland ftw

can this please stop it is so annoying

www fcing with nomod, farto fcing with hr on freemod, who gets hyped by chat AND commentators? www of course.
3 people on polish team have same acc, commentators: "look at this amazing acc from www"

i basically have to mute the stream when poland is playing because it is SO annoying.
yes he is a good player and shit but this is just going too far and disrespecting all the other players too much.

That's something that every team with one stand-out player has to deal with.

I know it's not right and especially for the game against France all the players deserved more credit than they got, but it is like it is, when you play fans are also focused on you because you're "the guy who FCd Freedom Dive".

WW is very known player and you could say he's osu! celebrity. When you watch Portugal play football commentators also treat it like it's Cristiano Ronaldo & friends. Hell, same with Poland and Lewandowski. You may see headlines after the game "Portugal won 3:0, Ronaldo didn't score" just because he's this fameous.

Like I said, I agree that especially commentators should pay more attention to other playes, but casual fan knows 3 polish players - WW, Rafis and Niko (maybe also Adamqs as "that cheater who gets unbanned after 1 day") and it's really pointless for anyone to get mad at them for only noticing WW when Poland is playing. Let them just be, you won't convince them that Fartownik, Amai, Sterrum and Wilchq had just as big if sometimes not bigger role in Poland winning.

its annoying me with myself aswell, yeah its kind of to be expected but i just stated my opinion there. I hate it because others deserve way more attention, for example first time OWC players who consistently play good are just not even mentioned once, thats pretty sad

edit: and if someone can change that atleast a bit it would be the commentators, thats what im hoping for
the chat will always be www fangirls all the way

I haven't watched any of Poland's matches but I can definitely say the commentators weren't only focusing on the star players in the matches I've watched. They didn't orgasm over happystick, sapphireghost or dragonhuman. I would say they're focusing a lot on unpopular people in fact because I would not have noticed MathClass pretty much fced every map she played during her match against China. I would say the commentators are doing a good job at not focusing on the superstar players. They do sound very awkward though.

I really hope peppy stays true to his word and next week we can watch the matches without any fake combo breaks. Surprised he didn't fix it last year.

pielak wrote:

I haven't watched any of Poland's matches but I can definitely say the commentators weren't only focusing on the star players in the matches I've watched. They didn't orgasm over happystick, sapphireghost or dragonhuman. I would say they're focusing a lot on unpopular people in fact because I would not have noticed MathClass pretty much fced every map she played during her match against China. I would say the commentators are doing a good job at not focusing on the superstar players. They do sound very awkward though.

I really hope peppy stays true to his word and next week we can watch the matches without any fake combo breaks. Surprised he didn't fix it last year.

i haven't really seen too much hype for star players either, other than the occasional comment on how well they're doing on the song which pretty much all players playing in the current map gets

I think on free mod picks, the commentators should focus more on the players that have the mods on rather than the no mods because the mods turned on is what makes the match interesting. In fact, I hope that free mods bracket turns into more of a mirror mod next year, minus flashlight (has anyone actually picked fl?...)

the whole nl team picked hd fl on a warmup map, but that doesnt really count dat 400 combo from synchro tho

cptnXn wrote:

here2pown wrote:

WWW carry

poland ftw

can this please stop it is so annoying

www fcing with nomod, farto fcing with hr on freemod, who gets hyped by chat AND commentators? www of course.
3 people on polish team have same acc, commentators: "look at this amazing acc from www"

i basically have to mute the stream when poland is playing because it is SO annoying.
yes he is a good player and shit but this is just going too far and disrespecting all the other players too much.

I really want to make a compilation video with the best ones 8)