I just want to say that I really appreciate your answer Loctav and that you have my respect.
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osu! World Cup 2014 - Discussion Thread
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I can respect your point of view and I will accept
While I respect the response and apology, it doesn't really change the fact that the staff team's first reaction to people getting (justifiably) pissed off by this was to go "oh shit, we better silence and ban anyone who even mentions it". I understand that many of these were rescinded, but that's still an awful reaction to anyone simply bringing up a concern they have, and the issue is that it happened at all.
Sorry loctav but you're failing to prove yourself as a mod who can handle this job time and time again. it is so sad to see that the only way you handle things is by silencing people. use a better method that can maybe gain some respect for you because right now, no one has any for you.
"Luckily Netherlands won anyways" <-- are you serious? think about this quote
you're right. it is very lucky netherlands won because if they lost because the shitstorm would be 50x greater.
Im actually going to post this because this is absolutely disgusting behaviour for a mod. just such a childish way of handling things.
*I understand that it must be unbelievably stressful from the feedback of the community (even myself) but you're just not allowed to do this. its nothing more than abusing your power. Im sure its just plain frustrating when people dont listen to you but you need to think about your actions and what consequences may come from them. please. please.
"Luckily Netherlands won anyways" <-- are you serious? think about this quote
you're right. it is very lucky netherlands won because if they lost because the shitstorm would be 50x greater.
Im actually going to post this because this is absolutely disgusting behaviour for a mod. just such a childish way of handling things.
*I understand that it must be unbelievably stressful from the feedback of the community (even myself) but you're just not allowed to do this. its nothing more than abusing your power. Im sure its just plain frustrating when people dont listen to you but you need to think about your actions and what consequences may come from them. please. please.
First of all, thanks for the reply, Loctav! Really appreciate it.
But I can see why community is upset at the way the tournament is ran.
I won't go over the multi-account and OWC-ban because it's been done to death already and if Eph's word is worth anything then it will be handled differently in the next OWC's (if they happen, that is).
Another issue you addresed already, needless silences in the lobby and barring from further play. As long as you tone it down and 'chill', I think it should get better. Try to be friendlier with players, if the only memories they have from the tournament is silences and the war of community vs staff then players won't want to play in the next OWC's and the community won't want to support it any further.
Now for the issues that I don't think have been addresed:
Tone down the twitch chat moderation, come on. It's twitch chat, you cannot expect 100% positive feedback and friendly discussion. Allow memes, emotes, don't blacklist words (Cookiezi). Allow the chat to have some fun, if they start spamming, laugh at it, they'll stop in a few minutes. There won't be riots if you do stuff properly. Getting on popular streamer's bad side can't end with anything else than the death of the chat.
The biggest problem I have is censorship and shuffling all the problems under the rug. Trying to make the tournament look good while being bad. The casters don't mention any bancho problems or players getting barred from play. "What a surprise! Taiwan was so good last year and now they lost vs Ukraine!", suure, I wonder why. Happystick obviously disconnected because of Bancho's fault, looks obvious enough to anyone who watched his stream, and you told him to shut down any net applications/the stream to fix it. Fartownik got perma banned from osulive chat because he said it was bancho's fault that Happystick dc'd. The community appreciates transparency.
Cheers.
But I can see why community is upset at the way the tournament is ran.
I won't go over the multi-account and OWC-ban because it's been done to death already and if Eph's word is worth anything then it will be handled differently in the next OWC's (if they happen, that is).
Another issue you addresed already, needless silences in the lobby and barring from further play. As long as you tone it down and 'chill', I think it should get better. Try to be friendlier with players, if the only memories they have from the tournament is silences and the war of community vs staff then players won't want to play in the next OWC's and the community won't want to support it any further.
Now for the issues that I don't think have been addresed:
Tone down the twitch chat moderation, come on. It's twitch chat, you cannot expect 100% positive feedback and friendly discussion. Allow memes, emotes, don't blacklist words (Cookiezi). Allow the chat to have some fun, if they start spamming, laugh at it, they'll stop in a few minutes. There won't be riots if you do stuff properly. Getting on popular streamer's bad side can't end with anything else than the death of the chat.
The biggest problem I have is censorship and shuffling all the problems under the rug. Trying to make the tournament look good while being bad. The casters don't mention any bancho problems or players getting barred from play. "What a surprise! Taiwan was so good last year and now they lost vs Ukraine!", suure, I wonder why. Happystick obviously disconnected because of Bancho's fault, looks obvious enough to anyone who watched his stream, and you told him to shut down any net applications/the stream to fix it. Fartownik got perma banned from osulive chat because he said it was bancho's fault that Happystick dc'd. The community appreciates transparency.
Cheers.
I pretty much agree with what Welil states here.
There are just a lot of unadressed issues here, even with that apology from Loctav.
By the way isn't it an option to just tell people to speed up in a nicer way than just pushing timelimits?
If you're getting told you have a minute to decide, you can pretty much only do a snap decision after 3 seconds. Its not like you can really discuss anything because you put the player in a pressured situation.
The better way in my opinion is to write stuff like: "guys can you speed up, the viewers are waiting." and such.
This way people will speed up (unless they are purposely mean) and they dont get pressured more than nescessary.
The point about twitch chat/censorship has already been made, but also try taking it into account, since it really lowers enjoyment a lot to know that stuff gets hidden/ you cant express your opinion properly in a livechat.
There are just a lot of unadressed issues here, even with that apology from Loctav.
By the way isn't it an option to just tell people to speed up in a nicer way than just pushing timelimits?
If you're getting told you have a minute to decide, you can pretty much only do a snap decision after 3 seconds. Its not like you can really discuss anything because you put the player in a pressured situation.
The better way in my opinion is to write stuff like: "guys can you speed up, the viewers are waiting." and such.
This way people will speed up (unless they are purposely mean) and they dont get pressured more than nescessary.
The point about twitch chat/censorship has already been made, but also try taking it into account, since it really lowers enjoyment a lot to know that stuff gets hidden/ you cant express your opinion properly in a livechat.
What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".
haha you have no idea how stressful it is to handle a tournament do you..Welil wrote:
What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".
Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.-Ryuujii- wrote:
haha you have no idea how stressful it is to handle a tournament do you..Welil wrote:
What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".
And you think they haven't tried? The only reason why things boil down the way they do is because being nice doesn't work out the first time. Throwing around idealism in a setting like this will not work often.Cola wrote:
Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.
All of this 'Disconnects shouldn't count and should replay' is all well and good but let's say that a team is doing shit and one player, regardless of anyone else on the team, unplugs his router so a restart happens. Not only is this cheating, and somewhat unfair, it wastes everyone's time.
If there was some sort of limit on it, like 'You can have 3 restarts per match if a player disconnects' then that may help the problem. However, let's say that one or two players unplug their routers to get a restart, then someone legit disconnects. It's the same problem, but somewhat worse.
If there was some sort of limit on it, like 'You can have 3 restarts per match if a player disconnects' then that may help the problem. However, let's say that one or two players unplug their routers to get a restart, then someone legit disconnects. It's the same problem, but somewhat worse.
@ryuujii and whoever bothers to read this
There are better methods that dont result in diminishing every bit of respect every OWC fan has for you and effectively getting the entire community to hate you.
and what Welil and Cola said is one of them. talk with the players and try to be lenient and 'nice' instead of forcefully asserting your dominance and censoring every single person who dares talk about it. What on earth do you even gain from doing that.
Twitch Chat
the strategy is to suppress the voice of thousands of people for "spamming" and when you set them free, you immediately suppress them again because the pressure released came out too strong. like ???? what are you even doing???? what Welil wrote about twitch chat was completely on point and I say good job! thats exactly how it should be done.
and handling a tournament is stressful, but handling a tournament is even more stressful when everyone hates or is flaming at you and your co-workers (mainly your fault to begin with) but that is still no reason to act childish. how Loctav argued in my last post is exactly how a Minecraft Admin would do it. pathetic. shows unprofessional-ism when they tried to make this tournament overly professional.
i'll laugh if this gets removed because it only proves my point which I made in my last post. :3 but I see no reason why it should.
this is my last post ill make on this whole topic. dont worry. my discussion ends here. : )
There are better methods that dont result in diminishing every bit of respect every OWC fan has for you and effectively getting the entire community to hate you.
and what Welil and Cola said is one of them. talk with the players and try to be lenient and 'nice' instead of forcefully asserting your dominance and censoring every single person who dares talk about it. What on earth do you even gain from doing that.
Twitch Chat
the strategy is to suppress the voice of thousands of people for "spamming" and when you set them free, you immediately suppress them again because the pressure released came out too strong. like ???? what are you even doing???? what Welil wrote about twitch chat was completely on point and I say good job! thats exactly how it should be done.
and handling a tournament is stressful, but handling a tournament is even more stressful when everyone hates or is flaming at you and your co-workers (mainly your fault to begin with) but that is still no reason to act childish. how Loctav argued in my last post is exactly how a Minecraft Admin would do it. pathetic. shows unprofessional-ism when they tried to make this tournament overly professional.
i'll laugh if this gets removed because it only proves my point which I made in my last post. :3 but I see no reason why it should.
this is my last post ill make on this whole topic. dont worry. my discussion ends here. : )
Blaming the staff when the players are acting like 12-year olds even when the schedules are tight will get you absolutely nowhere.Makan1 wrote:
@ryuujii and whoever bothers to read this
There are better methods that dont result in diminishing every bit of respect every OWC fan has for you and effectively getting the entire community to hate you.
and what Welil and Cola said is one of them. talk with the players and try to be lenient and 'nice' instead of forcefully asserting your dominance and censoring every single person who dares talk about it. What on earth do you even gain from doing that.
Twitch Chat
the strategy is to suppress the voice of thousands of people for "spamming" and when you set them free, you immediately suppress them again because the pressure released came out too strong. like ???? what are you even doing???? what Welil wrote about twitch chat was completely on point and I say good job! thats exactly how it should be done.
and handling a tournament is stressful, but handling a tournament is even more stressful when everyone hates or is flaming at you and your co-workers (mainly your fault to begin with) but that is still no reason to act childish. how Loctav argued in my last post is exactly how a Minecraft Admin would do it. pathetic. shows unprofessional-ism when they tried to make this tournament overly professional.
i'll laugh if this gets removed because it only proves my point which I made in my last post. :3 but I see no reason why it should.
this is my last post ill make on this whole topic. dont worry. my discussion ends here. : )
Try looking at this from the staff's perspective.
And completely ignoring all suggestions in the idealism will lead to things never changing.Lust wrote:
And you think they haven't tried? The only reason why things boil down the way they do is because being nice doesn't work out the first time. Throwing around idealism in a setting like this will not work often.Cola wrote:
Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.
The attitude from the administration is that of a spoiled 16 year old girl. Nothing is their fault and everyone should change to suit their preferred way of running things. We've gotten an apology for an outburst. That's it. Everything else has been excuses. Justification for rash actions is not what is needed. The fact they even try to justify the shitstorm going on speaks volumes. From refusing to take blame for awful Bancho connectivity, to twitch chat moderation, to player management, this has been a dumpster fire.
If a consumer wants a product, but the product doesn't perform its duty, the consumer will call the manufacturer for an explanation. If the only explanation they get is excuses for the broken product, why would the consumer ever go back to that company for anything ever again? It's the exact same concept here. Stop making excuses for yourselves and fix your product.
Schedules are only tight for the group stages. You have a lot more breathing space when you come to the direct elimination stages.Pannari wrote:
Blaming the staff when the players are acting like 12-year olds even when the schedules are tight will get you absolutely nowhere.
Try looking at this from the staff's perspective.
This. There was a 4 hour break between Japan/Sweden and Poland/France. There's nothing tight about that schedule.Gigo wrote:
Schedules are only tight for the group stages. You have a lot more breathing space when you come to the direct elimination stages.Pannari wrote:
Blaming the staff when the players are acting like 12-year olds even when the schedules are tight will get you absolutely nowhere.
Try looking at this from the staff's perspective.
FIRETRUCK LEWANDOSKI, BENZEMA IS SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER ;w;
RIP France ;w;
GG Poland.
RIP France ;w;
GG Poland.
Can anyone explain me this:
Tom SS 1447 combo. I didn't SS but I have more combo and more score than him. Mh. Wat xD Bug?
Tom SS 1447 combo. I didn't SS but I have more combo and more score than him. Mh. Wat xD Bug?
Guess it's a bug or something like that, look at me and sayo here for example.
Andrea wrote:
Guess it's a bug or something like that, look at me and sayo here for example.
Uh okay.
EDIT: LOL YALES, maybe?
EDIT: LOL YALES, maybe?
I demand some special investigation into these suspicious scores, h4XX0rz are everywhere
Also GG France
Also GG France
Word to describe the queen right now:
wreck
verb
= destroy, break, total (slang), smash, ruin, devastate, mar, shatter, spoil, demolish, sabotage, trash (slang), ravage, dash to pieces, kennet (Australian, slang), jeff (Australian, slang) • Vandals wrecked the garden.
wreck
verb
= destroy, break, total (slang), smash, ruin, devastate, mar, shatter, spoil, demolish, sabotage, trash (slang), ravage, dash to pieces, kennet (Australian, slang), jeff (Australian, slang) • Vandals wrecked the garden.
Teams play Darude - Sandstorm for warm-up, chat goes wild. What do the moderators do? Ban random people who say 'Dududu' and then killing the hype by turning on sub-mode again.
Honestly, maybe there needs to be a readjustment of the moderators on the osulive channel after today? People who can tell the difference between 'shitty spam' and 'having a Twitch chat experience' would be nice for next week.
Honestly, maybe there needs to be a readjustment of the moderators on the osulive channel after today? People who can tell the difference between 'shitty spam' and 'having a Twitch chat experience' would be nice for next week.
Whoever was on osulive said that theyre considering to "abandon" the twitchchat.
Basically, they'll let the chat do whatever they want to do but they also dont read questions etc from there.
Basically, they'll let the chat do whatever they want to do but they also dont read questions etc from there.
99% of the timeouts in the Twitch chat are done by a bot, and the sub-only was a mistake that will hopefully not happen again.
I do not think abandoning twitch chat is a solution either though. I still think they need to interact somehow, which should be possible, considering some streamers interact with the members who ask questions, by seeing through the spam posts and insults.
@Xytox, yes, the bans are mostly automatic, but that's because the moderators put in certain phrases/words that will automatically time people out.
@Xytox, yes, the bans are mostly automatic, but that's because the moderators put in certain phrases/words that will automatically time people out.
Can someone provide a link to match between Sweden and Japan? Or at least explain what the hell happend there for Japan to loose?
They got rekt.Novalogic wrote:
Can someone provide a link to match between Sweden and Japan? Or at least explain what the hell happend there for Japan to loose?
shrekt*fartownik wrote:
They got rekt.Novalogic wrote:
Can someone provide a link to match between Sweden and Japan? Or at least explain what the hell happend there for Japan to loose?
Someone just mentioned this to me and I think the same. I believe the winner of the Winner's Bracket (the one advancing to the final) should have an advantage of 1 map and perhaps an automatic roll win over the finalist that comes out of Loser's Bracket. This is how it's done in any tournament that uses Loser's Bracket (CS:GO for example) and I don't see why this couldn't be implemented here as well.
China 2 5 South Korea https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10507941
Australia 2 5 Netherlands https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10508932
Ukraine 5 1 Taiwan https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10509978
Sweden 5 3 Japan https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10510938
Poland 5 1 France https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10517306
Germany 5 3 Russian Federation https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10518861
United Kingdom 2 5 Austria https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10520060
Argentina 2 5 United States https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10521646
full list before wiki updates.
Topic Starter
Schedule n stuff is released
As far as I can tell the loser bracket's winner needs to win 2 matches against the winner bracket's winner as it stands right now (just imagine a best of 3 where the first loss does not necessarily come from the actual enemy).fartownik wrote:
Someone just mentioned this to me and I think the same. I believe the winner of the Winner's Bracket (the one advancing to the final) should have an advantage of 1 map and perhaps an automatic roll win over the finalist that comes out of Loser's Bracket. This is how it's done in any tournament that uses Loser's Bracket (CS:GO for example) and I don't see why this couldn't be implemented here as well.
Yeah, usually for tournaments with best-of-whatever, the loser bracket team has to win two best-of-whatever in order to win the whole thing, while the team from the winner bracket only has to win one.
This would make sense if you consider every team starts with two chances before they're kicked out of the tournament.
This would make sense if you consider every team starts with two chances before they're kicked out of the tournament.
Looks like this year OWC is full of surprises and missing best players ( Snowwhite, SmallK, Rafis, rrtyui, and so on ). Maybe There is a chance to overthrow Korea after all 
Ingame score (and combo) was correct, though. Seems to me like the data written to the website skipped the last few things some of the clients sent. :pChewin wrote:
Can anyone explain me this:
Tom SS 1447 combo. I didn't SS but I have more combo and more score than him. Mh. Wat xD Bug?
By the way, for the next round, perhaps it'd be a cool idea to have a little after stream for an hour or so. Just invite players who just had their match and discuss the maps, the thrill of playing owc, etc. etc. It's insanely fun to hear a bunch of pro players discuss their tactics, views on osu!, and all that stuff. See it like having a little post-match interview.