Woot! Congratulations on your first ranked
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Aoi Eir - IGNITE (TV size ver.)
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Congratz on your first rank bby~
Sugoi! Congrats on your first ranked map!
GRATS YUZUUUU SENPAI~ 
I see you getting rid of a lot of stars here, desperate.
gz on qualify yuzu ♥
gz on qualify yuzu ♥
grats!!!!! @2131
.@21!
.@21!
Gratz~~~ 
Oh it got ranked
Gratz!
OMG, Congratz <33
What to do with stars anyways XD Also it was quite funny imo!Okoratu wrote:
I see you getting rid of a lot of stars here, desperate.
Gratz. <33
Mao wrote:
Gratz. <33
finally ~ congratz!! >w<
oooo GZ GZ
QAT APPROACHES
QAT APPROACHES
woo
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
loltoybot wrote:
Oh it got ranked
oops i double posted ;w;
Did anyone watch auto play Winbers Extra? I played it and wondered why it was off then watched auto play it..
Winbers difficulty doesnt even play to the song.
Do we mod maps before they get ranked anymore? This seems to be a trend.
All the other difficulties seem to be great, except for the early break in the collab insane.. but winbers is wats all over my face. I have no idea why notes are placed in certain places.
I have a question, because I think this may be why extras have been ridiculous in 2014. Do people even bother to question the extra? Or do you just rank anything because "extra is for pros."
Winbers difficulty doesnt even play to the song.
Do we mod maps before they get ranked anymore? This seems to be a trend.
All the other difficulties seem to be great, except for the early break in the collab insane.. but winbers is wats all over my face. I have no idea why notes are placed in certain places.
I have a question, because I think this may be why extras have been ridiculous in 2014. Do people even bother to question the extra? Or do you just rank anything because "extra is for pros."
modding maps?!?! what a horrible form of torture! it should be barred by the UN!
Thats what I thought. Thanks.CDFA wrote:
no we don't mod maps we just poop on the map and it's rankerinoed
I don't really agree with you. First of all, it definitely plays to the song. All rhythms and placements make sense to me and fit the song perfectly, I personally don't know what's your problem with it.Kurimu wrote:
Did anyone watch auto play Winbers Extra? I played it and wondered why it was off then watched auto play it..
Winbers difficulty doesnt even play to the song.
Do we mod maps before they get ranked anymore? This seems to be a trend.
All the other difficulties seem to be great, except for the early break in the collab insane.. but winbers is wats all over my face. I have no idea why notes are placed in certain places.
I have a question, because I think this may be why extras have been ridiculous in 2014. Do people even bother to question the extra? Or do you just rank anything because "extra is for pros."
Then, of course the map has been modded a lot. Maybe you should read the thread next time before you state something like this, because there has been a heated discussion about this diff. Saying things like "Do we mod maps before they get ranked anymore? This seems to be a trend." is rude, because there was put a lot of effort in this map modding-wise.
If you really have no idea why notes are in certain places, you should give examples (if it only applies to certain notes), or you'll leave the impression that you misunderstand the whole difficulty, which would mean that you are not skilled enough to play it (which I wouldn't think when looking at your rank).
As I already said, people have questioned the Extra and winber gave a good reason for every suggestion he denied. "Or do you just rank anything because extra is for pros" is also pretty rude. I'd really recommend you to read the thread and maybe you will understand.
11 pages of replies to this thread, I'm pretty sure some of it is modding. Also, ranked maps come from the mapping/modding community, not the player community, so complaining about maps after they are ranked isn't gonna change anything unless it's an explicitly unrankable issue.Kurimu wrote:
Do we mod maps before they get ranked anymore? This seems to be a trend.
Give examples from the beatmap about anything that does not match with the song. Would be happy to explain them and/or accept suggestion/input.
I won't go into any more detail than necessary, but as stated before, it seems more like a lack of skill or bad offset, though the latter seems less likely.
I won't go into any more detail than necessary, but as stated before, it seems more like a lack of skill or bad offset, though the latter seems less likely.
winbers map is a masterpiece in playability in my honest opinion, it is aimed at players with more experience and gives them something new to think about. we get good at this game by experiencing new and groundbreaking patterns, so for that reason i have no problem ranking this kind of map provided it follows ranking criteria and plays well.
congrats toybot first ranked GD!!
Brief/small list of opinions which will be disregarded.
00:28:274 (3,1,2,3) - Bad spacing? Slider length?
00:38:274 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Doesnt flow/match the song IMO
01:16:520 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Because, why not? Right? It's 2014, everyone is doing it.
01:20:906 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - You go from mapping the vocals early, to mapping a heavy improv drum track, to mapping notes where there are no drums or vocals?
00:28:274 (3,1,2,3) - Bad spacing? Slider length?
00:38:274 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Doesnt flow/match the song IMO
01:16:520 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Because, why not? Right? It's 2014, everyone is doing it.
01:20:906 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - You go from mapping the vocals early, to mapping a heavy improv drum track, to mapping notes where there are no drums or vocals?
I have actually explained all of these things previously, but I can re-iterate it though.
Given that your speakers and/or headphones are good enough quality, you should be able to hear what I am trying to describe. I mean you don't need amazing headphones, but if you are just using like some average ipod earphones, which I did use before, there are many things that can't really be heard clearly or at all.
Given that your speakers and/or headphones are good enough quality, you should be able to hear what I am trying to describe. I mean you don't need amazing headphones, but if you are just using like some average ipod earphones, which I did use before, there are many things that can't really be heard clearly or at all.
Kurimu wrote:
Brief/small list of opinions which will be disregarded.
00:28:274 (3,1,2,3) - Bad spacing? Slider length? There is a wind-like, sparkling FX that is rising in intonation in the background. There is also no major beat on 00:28:625 - except a very soft and negligible synthesizer sound. The extended slider matches the FX in the background better than only a 1/1 slider would.
00:38:274 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Doesnt flow/match the song IMO very similar to the previous explanation. 00:38:625 - and 00:39:678 - have no beats that the slider would follow if I ended it at those points. The extended sliders are following the extended notes played by what sounds like violins.
01:16:520 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Because, why not? Right? It's 2014, everyone is doing it. If you take a closer look, you will hear a rising violin scale, in addition to the increasing complex drum beat and the long vocals (which causes a sort of suspense as the song reaches another climax). Furthermore, I slowly increased the spacing to match this slow ascent to the climax. The stream jumps are to emphasize each violin note as it rises up the scale. At the very end there is a triplet, which personally I find it fits the vocals, because right at that point is where the song climaxes and where you hear a cadence, and thus also a sort of collapse of the suspense built up beforehand. I tried to mimic the collapse with the collapse of the spacing, and the triplet acts like a slider, in a sense, by having the feeling of extending the stream, yet at the same time also have the collapsing feeling.
01:20:906 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - You go from mapping the vocals early, to mapping a heavy improv drum track, to mapping notes where there are no drums or vocals? If you delete the 7 notes and listen to the background, you will hear a soft stream of notes played by the drums in the background (all tom-tom sounds). The reason for the compressed triplet is because I wanted the player to feel the white tick beat more strongly than the red tick. (i.e. ba-da-BA-da-ba-da-bum)
For the record, I do jump around from instrument to instrument, because I do not like leaving instruments out. I map to everything that I can within reason, but first and foremost I try to do so in an entertaining and fun manner. So I will jump from vocal to drums to synth to guitar to whatever there is, but I never do it without reason and in a way that is unreadable or nonsensical.
Topic Starter
I'm sure we could be here all day having you point out stuff that then winber would gladly and correctly justify, but to avoid that I'd like you to make sure that you can actually play this difficulty properly before you point out stuff. People at this point have already full comboed it, and if they had something to say then I'd like them to speak their minds here.
I honestly dont think that anyone can justify separating a stream because when you play it the streams always look like segmented streams but they play like one single stream. I think its quite possibly the most unenjoyable pattern to play second to Deathstreams and i ts difficult enough to combo let alone acc. I dont think that readability should sit behind a mappers intention to make something unique. I think your reasoning for the first thing was okay but I still dont agree that the spacing is correct in the first two at all. Sure something should be mapped there, I agree completely, but the fact that its quiet and quick and awkward to read is just not necessary in my opinion.winber1 wrote:
I have actually explained all of these things previously, but I can re-iterate it though.
Given that your speakers and/or headphones are good enough quality, you should be able to hear what I am trying to describe. I mean you don't need amazing headphones, but if you are just using like some average ipod earphones, which I did use before, there are many things that can't really be heard clearly or at all.Kurimu wrote:
Brief/small list of opinions which will be disregarded.
00:28:274 (3,1,2,3) - Bad spacing? Slider length? There is a wind-like, sparkling FX that is rising in intonation in the background. There is also no major beat on 00:28:625 - except a very soft and negligible synthesizer sound. The extended slider matches the FX in the background better than only a 1/1 slider would.
00:38:274 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Doesnt flow/match the song IMO very similar to the previous explanation. 00:38:625 - and 00:39:678 - have no beats that the slider would follow if I ended it at those points. The extended sliders are following the extended notes played by what sounds like violins.
01:16:520 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Because, why not? Right? It's 2014, everyone is doing it. If you take a closer look, you will hear a rising violin scale, in addition to the increasing complex drum beat and the long vocals (which causes a sort of suspense as the song reaches another climax). Furthermore, I slowly increased the spacing to match this slow ascent to the climax. The stream jumps are to emphasize each violin note as it rises up the scale. At the very end there is a triplet, which personally I find it fits the vocals, because right at that point is where the song climaxes and where you hear a cadence, and thus also a sort of collapse of the suspense built up beforehand. I tried to mimic the collapse with the collapse of the spacing, and the triplet acts like a slider, in a sense, by having the feeling of extending the stream, yet at the same time also have the collapsing feeling.
01:20:906 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - You go from mapping the vocals early, to mapping a heavy improv drum track, to mapping notes where there are no drums or vocals? If you delete the 7 notes and listen to the background, you will hear a soft stream of notes played by the drums in the background (all tom-tom sounds). The reason for the compressed triplet is because I wanted the player to feel the white tick beat more strongly than the red tick. (i.e. ba-da-BA-da-ba-da-bum)
For the record, I do jump around from instrument to instrument, because I do not like leaving instruments out. I map to everything that I can within reason, but first and foremost I try to do so in an entertaining and fun manner. So I will jump from vocal to drums to synth to guitar to whatever there is, but I never do it without reason and in a way that is unreadable or nonsensical.
And about mapping different instruments; the vocals earlier felt extremely off. I dont personally think that the track should be mapped to the vocals that early on simply because when replaying, that part is always just slow and boring and not difficult at all; you have to play quite far to get to your ridiculous stream jumps just to fail then replay the easy part over again. Yes it should be mapped, but if you planned to map to the vocals there you could have mixed it up instead of just hopping from each one of her notes and making use of the weird timing.
PS: It isnt a problem with skill, like you implied earlier. There are "harder maps" I can read and aim. This map is just very awkward and weird for me to 'combo'. I dont rate maps or mod maps with 'skill' as a factor. If I did that, then I would complain about Pretender and all the other maps that I have trouble with, and I don't. In fact, my favorite map is Trakker - Rootus.. which contains stream jumps and borderline unreadable hidden patterns. (Although I think the stream jumps were unnecessary.)
@Yuzu: dont waste your time white knighting people. winber can talk for himself. youre just increasing your post count with that post.
Topic Starter
damn I was made D:Kurimu wrote:
@Yuzu: dont waste your time white knighting people. winber can talk for himself. youre just increasing your post count with that post.
Shohei Ohtani
Just wait for the QAT tbh
Cheesecake.CDFA wrote:
how am i supposed to get winber to be my girlfriend if i dont white knight
Your dislike of stream jumps and deathstreams are not justified objectively, but rather subjectively. You are basically saying it's not good because you don't like it, which doesn't really say much about anything.
The reason I'm saying skill is involved because I personally believe you should at least be able to play an accepted and readable pattern before making an official argument against it. You can still offer opinions, but if much of your argument still revolves around the "It plays bad" or "I can't combo it" or "It's hard to accurately hit it," I personally don't feel like you are offering a extremely convincing argument. If you say nothing of playability, and tell me musically why you think it should be another way, and then offer an alternative then it would be more convincing, regardless of rank or skill.
And in addition, there are many maps that are like this, and I would like to bet very strongly that you have many maps that do this and that you like to play. The reason why it may feel really awkward and hard is because of firstly the HP drain and the harshness of missing a note. I actually decreased the difficulty settings for that a decent amount but the auto-determined settings that osu! gives it just happened to be really high regardless. Secondly, the patterns I use are not like most other patterns you will normally see, despite looking pretty average. When you play it, there is a sort of added difficulty of pattern complexity and playability and that can make it harder to combo or play and make it feel awkward. Some patterns people are better at, for instance squares, pentagons and hexagons. Most of the maps you see ranked today will almost never make a pattern like that, and they only focus on more direct flow, and there is not so much pattern complexity often time. This is one reason also why Skystar maps are hard, not because spacing is that big or speed is that fast, but pattern complexity. Personally, from being here for like almost 5 years, I've gotten used to a lot of random patterns, so things like that don't really bother me, but to other people it still might.
When you say "harder," they are harder in terms of star rating, speed, and even spacing probably, but perhaps not in pattern complexity, and that can turn people away sometimes.
Also everyone is my girlfriend.
the internet is my harem
The reason I'm saying skill is involved because I personally believe you should at least be able to play an accepted and readable pattern before making an official argument against it. You can still offer opinions, but if much of your argument still revolves around the "It plays bad" or "I can't combo it" or "It's hard to accurately hit it," I personally don't feel like you are offering a extremely convincing argument. If you say nothing of playability, and tell me musically why you think it should be another way, and then offer an alternative then it would be more convincing, regardless of rank or skill.
There isn't much to map in the beginning anyway. The only thing that sticks out is the vocals and the piano chord every two measures. The synth in the background is barely doing anything and is not very audible and that is why I did not map it because I did not feel it is making enough of an impact that it necessarily needs to be mapped. With your reasoning, you are essentially saying I should map such that all parts of the map are of relatively equal difficulty (if you are to use the argument that the beginning is so slow, boring and not difficult). Doing so just makes almost no sense in some circumstances. I don't think you actually believe that it should be strictly like that, though. For the record, adding more sliders and hitcircles won't make that part any harder or "interesting" than it already is, unless I incredibly overmapped it, making it of similar difficulty to the kiai time, which I would assume you would also disagree with. Thus, your original argument that it's boring and doesn't match the difficulty of the kiai time does not really apply.Kurimu wrote:
And about mapping different instruments; the vocals earlier felt extremely off. I dont personally think that the track should be mapped to the vocals that early on simply because when replaying, that part is always just slow and boring and not difficult at all; you have to play quite far to get to your ridiculous stream jumps just to fail then replay the easy part over again. Yes it should be mapped, but if you planned to map to the vocals there you could have mixed it up instead of just hopping from each one of her notes and making use of the weird timing.
PS: It isnt a problem with skill, like you implied earlier. There are "harder maps" I can read and aim. This map is just very awkward and weird for me to 'combo'.
And in addition, there are many maps that are like this, and I would like to bet very strongly that you have many maps that do this and that you like to play. The reason why it may feel really awkward and hard is because of firstly the HP drain and the harshness of missing a note. I actually decreased the difficulty settings for that a decent amount but the auto-determined settings that osu! gives it just happened to be really high regardless. Secondly, the patterns I use are not like most other patterns you will normally see, despite looking pretty average. When you play it, there is a sort of added difficulty of pattern complexity and playability and that can make it harder to combo or play and make it feel awkward. Some patterns people are better at, for instance squares, pentagons and hexagons. Most of the maps you see ranked today will almost never make a pattern like that, and they only focus on more direct flow, and there is not so much pattern complexity often time. This is one reason also why Skystar maps are hard, not because spacing is that big or speed is that fast, but pattern complexity. Personally, from being here for like almost 5 years, I've gotten used to a lot of random patterns, so things like that don't really bother me, but to other people it still might.
When you say "harder," they are harder in terms of star rating, speed, and even spacing probably, but perhaps not in pattern complexity, and that can turn people away sometimes.
Also everyone is my girlfriend.
the internet is my harem
6 hours until judgement day.Lust wrote:
Just wait for the QAT tbh
Tick,
Tock,
Tick,
Tock.
Also, often the time the more you play something you feel is dumb, often time the less you think badly of it, and the more it makes sense. I have quite a few maps where I've experienced this, and sometimes I even begin to like the map a lot.
I did provide a reason why stream jumps are unnecessary or bad. For one, visually, they make no sense. They look like grouped streams and the only saving grace of them is the approach circle and or fading note in HD for readability. They are extremely non-intuitive. A stream is a long series of notes with no breaks that you alternate. Thats how I define a stream. Stream jumps look like something theyre not, every time I see a stream jump it just looks like a series of burst streams.. which would probably be fine enough there as is.
Also the math behind it? I believe at 200bpm and a 1/4 time signature, you have .075 seconds to snap the distance between notes for true 1/4 stream jumps. Is my math right? Someone correct me if its wrong.
As someone has played >40k ranked plays I believe at this point I can be "subjective" with a strong lack of bias, since "objectivity" doesnt exist in this kind of a thing. Somone may dislike what you say or what I say and because of the circumtance, instantly we all become subject to subjectivity.
Also the math behind it? I believe at 200bpm and a 1/4 time signature, you have .075 seconds to snap the distance between notes for true 1/4 stream jumps. Is my math right? Someone correct me if its wrong.
As someone has played >40k ranked plays I believe at this point I can be "subjective" with a strong lack of bias, since "objectivity" doesnt exist in this kind of a thing. Somone may dislike what you say or what I say and because of the circumtance, instantly we all become subject to subjectivity.
Still sounds like you are complaining largely because you don't like stream jumps. Saying that they visually don't make sense is your own opinion. Most people that have played it seem to understand immediately how they are supposed to be played, despite not always being able to combo it.
There are more objective reasons you can give than they are extremely non-intuitive, or they read badly... like actually explain why they are unintuitive or why they read badly, because honestly they seem to read fine to me and many other people and are quite intuitive to most people I've seen.
And 200BPM stream jumps are perfectly possible and can be used within reason, and secondly this isn't 200BPM
There are more objective reasons you can give than they are extremely non-intuitive, or they read badly... like actually explain why they are unintuitive or why they read badly, because honestly they seem to read fine to me and many other people and are quite intuitive to most people I've seen.
And 200BPM stream jumps are perfectly possible and can be used within reason, and secondly this isn't 200BPM
Everything is my own opinion. The fact that they are good is your opinion. You cannot disregard someone because theyre giving their opinion because you think "Its not objective enough". You're an idiot if you think objectivity exists in mapping. You cannot objectively prove a pattern to be right or wrong, or good or bad. Anything I say at all "CANNOT" be in any way shape or form an objective opinion. There is no such thing as a "more objective" explaination. We are not talking rankability because garbage can get ranked and thats been proven this year.
The fact that things 'catch you off guard' is the problem with this style of mapping. The sliders which are longer than 'most maps would have them' which go into awkward stacks a tick ahead of where they would because of the slider length.
Also, 'most people that played it seem to understand'? If by played it you mean all broke combo on the same area?
I explained everything fine. The fact that you don't understand the substance of my opinion speaks for you, not for me.
The reason I mentioned the math thing is because I was speaking for stream jump as a whole not just the ones in your difficulty.
Oh well, atleast its not as bad as sjoys new map.
The fact that things 'catch you off guard' is the problem with this style of mapping. The sliders which are longer than 'most maps would have them' which go into awkward stacks a tick ahead of where they would because of the slider length.
Also, 'most people that played it seem to understand'? If by played it you mean all broke combo on the same area?
I explained everything fine. The fact that you don't understand the substance of my opinion speaks for you, not for me.
The reason I mentioned the math thing is because I was speaking for stream jump as a whole not just the ones in your difficulty.
Oh well, atleast its not as bad as sjoys new map.
calm down already
I wouldn't rank it if i wasn't sure it was ok! Personally, as a high ranked player, the extra has no issues regarding playability. I personally full comboed it on my first testplay when ranking this map and specifically looked for errors that would affect readability. The spacing is fine, leave out scrutinizing the extra to people who are able to appreciate the map in detail and understand exactly how each pattern works.
Again, I would not rank this map if I wasn't sure it was ok. Look at Hanzer's Miss You map, it doesn't make visual sense, but it plays well. Give maps like these a chance or don't complain about hard/unique maps not being ranked anymore.
Again, I would not rank this map if I wasn't sure it was ok. Look at Hanzer's Miss You map, it doesn't make visual sense, but it plays well. Give maps like these a chance or don't complain about hard/unique maps not being ranked anymore.
There are more objective reasons, since you can actually use the music as more objective evidence as well as spacing and pattern usage from previous sections, and etc. Objective and subjective reality is a talk for philosophy class, but I'm pretty sure you would agree that it is possible to have a more objective view on certain subjects in life, generally by detaching yourself from your own problems and bias, and that can be applied here.
I personally feel you don't understand where I am coming from rather than the other way around.
I personally feel you don't understand where I am coming from rather than the other way around.
judgement day huh
I was poking fun at the fact that they had a few hours to make a move before it's too late yeahProject Railgun wrote:
judgement day huh