CXu wrote:

I don't need a month of supporter really, my point is that took me less than 10 minutes to actually remember and find. Having 1/3's are rarer, yes, but they're not as rare as you think they are. 1/3's are essentially a stream of 4 notes instead of 5 notes evenly spaced inbetween a 1/1, and you can play them as a slow stream, or you can play them as singletapping if they're slow enough for your singletapping speed. You're basically complaining about a set of notes being outside your comfort zone of both singletapping and streaming.

Actually took you 14 minutes (hue) and it still further proves my point of how rare this convention is. 8 out the tens of thousands of maps with this, rare enough to warrant a notifaction such as silver temple. You can say my sight read is shit and I'll never be the WWW if I can't read this but with shockingly few maps with them, how am i expected to read it?

Okay, you want more examples? I'm not even a standard player, and I still know a bunch off the top of my head:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/27977
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/102005
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/8284
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/26071

etc
I have a lot more maps in my head, but I'm not sure if they use 1/3 in the standard diff of just in taiko (I'm a taiko player, where 1/3 and 1/6 usage is much more common), so I didn't list them.

Luna wrote:

Okay, you want more examples? I'm not even a standard player, and I still know a bunch off the top of my head:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/27977
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/102005
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/8284
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/26071

etc
I have a lot more maps in my head, but I'm not sure if they use 1/3 in the standard diff of just in taiko (I'm a taiko player, where 1/3 and 1/6 usage is much more common), so I didn't list them.

For every 1 map with, lets call it compound timing. There's a 1000 maps with conventional timing, rare enough to say hey this is something new. I'm almost 13,000 plays in and this something new and shocking i have to learn.

They aren't rare. I can sight read them just fine at AR10 at 15k plays despite their supposed rarity. Believe it or not they're shockingly easy to pick out of a map that has normal streams. Maybe you just aren't diverse enough in your map selection.

13k plays so small i have like 19k and i feel like i just started playing yesterday

The reason it takes time to remember maps with 1/3 is because no one bothers to remember that a particular song has 1/3s. You just play the map because they're nothing special.
Also stop saying it's 8 out of tens of thousands, it's not. You asked for 5 maps, I gave you 5 (well 6). That does not imply they're all.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/75831
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/120918 (Well it has 1/6)
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/98415
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/34211
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/201731
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/108762
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/85513
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/36547
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/142772 (1/6. Basically you dont like variable stream-speed within a song so it counts)
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/46362
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/58361 (1/6)
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/111302 (1/6)
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/125448
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/285296
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/86269 (Probably a bunch of other owens remixes)
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/98496
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/104389

You are only now starting to encounter patterns like this because you are improving over time and these are advanced patterns that only appear in harder difficulties. There are many more advanced level maps with this kind of timing than you realize - you just haven't played them yet because you are still learning basics.

Riince wrote:

13k plays so small i have like 19k and i feel like i just started playing yesterday

How can you say that ? Happystick has ~90k plays and 5 years of play time.
You have ~20k plays and 1 year of play time.
You are proportionally 10k plays ahead of one of the best players in the game if you extrapolate your current trend for 4 more years?

get better at reading approach rates. you are not at a skill level to offer valuable and convincing arguments for this without obtaining the opinions of other higher level players, most of which will disagree with your thoughts.

and for the record, most people don't search for these songs, they play whatever they want, but they still learn to read these patterns.

winber1 wrote:

get better at reading approach rates. you are not at a skill level to offer valuable and convincing arguments for this without obtaining the opinions of other higher level players, most of which will disagree with your thoughts.

and for the record, most people don't search for these songs, they play whatever they want, but they still learn to read these patterns.

You just made me so mad with so few words, I commend you.

That's like saying yeah, cookiezi didn't actually cheat on masterpiece. AR11 is ez pz if you ask him. He's better than you so whatever you say, a (measly) rank 400 compared to his one, is invalid. Just play more AR11. That is complete and utter bullshit. Go wave your rank 400 dick somewhere else. Just because I'm rank 10k and you're 400 doesnt make your opinion more valid than mine, especially if I still have a case of how many maps are there in osu total and how many of them contain this "compound timing" if you will. Rank has NOTHING, I do repeat nothing NOTHING to do with it.

EDIT: I could see if I was like 100 plays in with a million rank, but I have obtained knowledge of rhythm and standard conventions throughout this game to say this is really rare, could I just get a fucking notifaction of it?

Okay, let me address your comparison:
"People telling you that AR11 is easy if you play more" vs "People telling you that 1/3 in 1/4-style maps are readable"
- There are exactly 0 players who can properly sightread AR11
- There are probably several thousand (at least hundreds of) players who can properly sightread at least most 1/3 patterns
- Nobody who claims that AR11 is easy can actually play AR11
- Many of the people who claim that 1/3 are readable can actually read 1/3

See the difference?

The simple fact of the matter is that you're responsible for noticing when irregular timing is used. It isn't rare, and you aren't entitled to any sort of notifaction. The fact that you're here asking for such a notifaction right now is evidence of both a lack of proper map exposure and a lack of proper reading skills on your part.

I've edited my post with a bunch of songs with 1/3 or 1/6's. If you still believe they're as rare as you say they are, then that's your problem really. There won't be a notification about it anyway, so it's basically your problem until you learn to read it properly.

reading and tapping is easy

aim is hell

Clappy wrote:

How do you know you can't read ar11? Are you cookiezi or better than him? Whatever you just said is invalid about ar11.

I never said that it's impossible, you are twisting my words. I just said that nobody can do it so far, so if anyone claims it's easy, their argument is invalid until someone proves it. In contrast, many people can sightread 1/3, so when they claim it's possible, that is a lot more compelling.
/E: lol he deleted his post I guess

It's NOT rare enough to warrant any notification. Actually, nothing is rare enough to warrant any notification about the map. You play it, and if you failed to read it, then too bad, get better at the game so you learn to read it. It's as simple as that.

Also, unfortunately it is a fact that you haven't played this game enough (or rather, enough different maps) if you believe 1/3's are rare. Most maps consist of 1/2 and 1/4 sure, but there are a lot of pure 1/3 maps out there, and plenty that mix them around. There would be more 1/3 maps if there were more songs that used 1/3 (that people want to map), but explicitly telling the player to "watch out for it" is the same as telling people to watch out for antijumps or slowdowns. Unless the mapper did a horrible job, they're sight-readable and do not need any kind of "warning" before they occur.

Edit: Whoop post disappeared.

maps purely going around 1/3 and 1/6 can essentially be played like a 1/2 1/4 map though, just of a differing bpm

Riince wrote:

maps purely going around 1/3 and 1/6 can essentially be played like a 1/2 1/4 map though, just of a differing bpm

This guy gets it^ Thank you Riince

I'm not saying its not readable. I'm not saying I feel entitled to anything because I'm X rank or anything just hear me the fuck out osu forums... I'm saying its rare and I know its rare because they're only ~20 maps in this thread addressing this issue. Until you can post hundreds and I do mean hundreds, my point still stands. If you can read it on sight having only played 2 maps of it, thats great for you. Until more maps of this are made I will and always will believe there should be a notification of it because there are rare. Lets run numbers.

Lets give this compound timing the benefit of the doubt and say there are 100 of them. (I pulled this number out of my ass.)

There are 371 beatmap packs with ~20 songs in each, maybe more. So there are 3,400 maps total (we all now this is a damn lie and there's tens of thousands)

That means that this compound timing has a 100/3420 maps which is a shocking .02%

That means that it is extremely rare and until someone else has facts to base this off of, it is exceedingly rare and should be a notifcation.

/Thread

Lol really. No one's going to bother compiling a list of all maps containing 1/3 just to convince you that they're not rare.
Basically, sucks to be you, it's still up to the mapper to write any notification about it.

That means that this compound timing has a 100/3420 maps which is a shocking .02%

100/3420 is roughly 3%
lrn2maths

I'm saying its rare and I know its rare because they're only ~20 maps in this thread addressing this issue. Until you can post hundreds and I do mean hundreds, my point still stands.

1) We listed a bunch of maps off the top of our heads because you wanted examples, and you still insist that that's gotta be pretty much all of them? smh
2) Until you can post hundreds and I do mean hundreds of maps with fullscreen square jumps, I request that all maps with such patterns be marked. Oh, and please mark all maps with deathstreams above 220 BPM unless you can list literally hundreds of those too. And yeah, I really think we need a warning for tornado jumps - I can't think of hundreds of maps off the top of my head, so there should be a warning. It's not because I suck, it's because it's super impossible due to rarity.

Clappy wrote:

That means that it is extremely rare and until someone else has facts to base this off of, it is exceedingly rare and should be a notifcation.

Even if we ignore the fact that it isn't rare at all, you aren't entitled to notifcations of things. Deathstreams are rare and don't have notifcations. Repeat spinners are rare and don't have notifcations. Tornado squares are rare and don't have notifcations. Fullscreen jumps are rare and don't have notifcations. Slider streams are rare and don't have notifcations. Etc., etc. etc.

You don't get fucking notifcations, end of story.

The one thing that tornados and death-streams have in common is that the fashion in which you hit the notes are the same. However with this compound timing of 180, Either you're singletapping 180 or streaming it, with as much time as ar 9 warrants (600ms) you're expected to single tap something faster than I love poland or stream something like racist coffee and thats what I dont like but since the rhythm changes and not the bpm, we dont get a notification. Am I bad for not being able to do it? Yes but since only an incredibly small percentage of maps have it, how the fuck am i going to practice it concretely as something as more common as a triangle. /thread i wont respond again, as if you all care

k bai

it's futile to try and reason with people who come up with such stupid arguments in the first place. or maybe, he is actually right and we're all the one who're stupid and illogical.

I say you don't have sufficient experience not because I am high rank. I did not support my argument with my "high" rank. You basically just fabricated a random the high rank e-peen argument. In fact, what I said was extremely general and quite vague to be honest, but it does get to a point.

So what do I actually mean by "sufficient experience?" Well, I personally do not think one should have full rights to dispute something they do not have full understanding of. For instance, I should not be fully trustworthy in an argument of what should be allowed in osu!mania mapping, or of whether a big kat/don should be allowed to be placed at the end of a stream in Taiko (just to give a few in-game topics). I do not play osu!mania or Taiko at a level where I can say that I understand these things.

In the first example, I may have tried mapping o!m before, but I will not be able to play so-called "bad" mapping techniques and patterns and understand that they are bad, and thus I cannot say such patterns are bad or good without second-hand experience (from better players). In the second example, I cannot play taiko, so even if I believe that it shouldn't be allowed, I would not have a very valuable opinion because mechanically speaking I can't play the pattern either way, and therefore my opinion is not as highly rated as people who understand and play the game mode better.

Generally what happens is that, even if you don't realize it, you will often time be complaining about something and offering an alternative that serves your own needs more than the community's. You are asking to make the osu! mechanics slightly easier by adding this notification, because part of you thinks it will benefit the game, but also because part of you cannot play such patterns (and it annoys you). When you can play the such patterns perfectly fine, and you still think that it should be changed, then a more reliable argument can be formed in my opinion.

It's basically the same thing as some other dude in the o!m forums, who complained about how stupid it was you had to release at the correct times for sliders (in addition to hitting them at the right time), even though he has barely played. His opinion that it is a bad idea and that it should be changed cannot be valued very much because he cannot play o!m and he does not fully understand the slider mechanics of the game mode. Once he can play o!m legitimately and understands the uses and mechanics of sliders, then his argument would be more valid.



Now furthermore, I can give a similar argument as to o!m slider situation: that learning to read patterns in osu! adds an extra layer of difficulty to the game. And anyway, this extra layer of difficulty only comes into play on harder difficulties (i.e. insanes and extras), thus it does not make it more difficult for beginners to get into the game. At first it might be a little awkward, but once you can understand and read the patterns it becomes a lot more fun and satisfying. Basically, adding a notification is similar to having someone tell you that there is going to be a surprise birthday party for you. You will be happy that your friends are doing this for you, but at the same time, you lose the great excitement of experiencing the surprise. You can also apply to movie spoilers in an almost similar way, though you will probably be more disappointed in that case.

And maps like these are not as rare as you think, but everyone has been telling you that, so it's not really much use for me to talk about it again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuplet

Man, these things are so rare and never show up in music. How dare you add them to beatmaps.

People would flip if something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odu3BtsYen4 was made into a beatmap because it literally changes time signature every measure... I don't see why you are complaining about a tuplet being tossed in here and there WHERE IT ACTUALLY SHOWS UP IN THE MUSIC. Like seriously people this is a rhythm game, not a click circles randomly game...

mania players sightread 1/16~1/12 changes on OD windows tighter than osu OD9+DT, osu players should step their shit up.

AR is a learnable thing but nobody is going to bother putting the time to learn AR11 since it has no application in maps for ranking due to map pools and score system. Until there's a huge chunk of maps that provide efficient ranking points while being AR11 nobody is going to be good at it not because it's impossible but simply because there's no motivation for anybody to learn it.

idk 'bout you gais but I see a ton of AR11 on this guy's profile, but he's pretty much the only one XD.

And uhh, argument is too long so I didn't read it all, but if you can't notice the difference between 1/4's to 1/3's then ...

1) maybe retry the map now that you (should) know where the 1/3's are ... ?
2) if that fails then try listening to the music so you can hear what you're supposed to click instead of mash ... ?
3) if that also fails then you're just not ready for advanced mapping techniques, end of story. Improve reading skills, learn to notice the change in the rate at which circles appear, listen to how the music changes. People don't map 1/3's and 1/6's outta nowhere.

If I'm not talking about the right thing then nvm, but emperorpenguin can definitely read AR11

nooblet wrote:

idk 'bout you gais but I see a ton of AR11 on this guy's profile, but he's pretty much the only one XD.

And uhh, argument is too long so I didn't read it all, but if you can't notice the difference between 1/4's to 1/3's then ...

1) maybe retry the map now that you (should) know where the 1/3's are ... ?
2) if that fails then try listening to the music so you can hear what you're supposed to click instead of mash ... ?
3) if that also fails then you're just not ready for advanced mapping techniques, end of story. Improve reading skills, learn to notice the change in the rate at which circles appear, listen to how the music changes. People don't map 1/3's and 1/6's outta nowhere.

If I'm not talking about the right thing then nvm, but emperorpenguin can definitely read AR11

On his stream I asked him some time ago if he could do 10.3 without HD , he replies that he couldn't read it without HD.

he plays ar11 like flashlight you an tell by the replays
thats not reading

noone can read ar11

Well if you have a 150ms reaction time then maybe you would have the potential to read AR10.3/AR11 Since you would have enough time to calmly understand what you are supposed to hit. But 150ms is highly improbable and AR11 is useless anyways. Why would you DT AR10 songs if there are AR9 songs that can give 550-600PP Eg: FD SS. FD HR/HD is also possible. That would already be 700 or even 800.

Why are we even talking about AR 10.3/11 ?

AR10.3 is readable. If you ask pretty much anyone who plays AR11 they will tell you its more about muscle memorizing the map than anything else.

Edit: for clarification, I'm talking about fc'ing AR11.