I suggest that the spinners give points sepperate from the normal points, TP (Tiebreak Points).
I see spinners oftenly reffered to as tiebreaker, especially in the lower differences so i thought we should focus on the spinners bonus points as tiebreaker for highscores in the charts.

Why am i suggesting this?

Firstly, because spinners influence the score way too much for what one has to do to gain these points. Shaking your hands fast as possible neither needs rythm, accuracy nor aim, therefore i consider it a minor, if not unfitting skill for osu.

The high bonuses spinners give cause a few problems such as these:

1. Lets imagine you SS'ed a song with all mods active, Impressive! Not only that, you also gained a good batch of PP for that. Now one would imagine you get high ranking in a song (if not many other people did that before) but noo, there loads of people ahead of you, with S's or A's, ahead of you, some even with fewer mods, just because they spun faster. Thats very annoying, if not frustating, because your performance was clearly better, wouldnt you agree?

2. Now you attempt the same thing again, but your performance was worse. That in itself isnt a problem, but you spun better for some reason, and breached your piror score. Your perfect performance gets replaced with a worse one, therefore your lose your precious PP, your... say 50pp performance gets replaced with a 23pp performance. Now THAT is downright infuriating. Even worse, you'll have a hard(er) time replacing it with a better performance again too.

3. -This is a minor point.- Spinners are a little biased towards tablets, i wouldnt say its easier to spin faster with a tablet, but as you dont have to seek your cursor after a spinner its easier for the tablet users (or even touchscreen users) in comparision to mouse users.

The change to TP for spinners would solve all these issues at once, while at the same time the spinners would still work perfectly as tiebreaker.

In addidtion to that, the TP you gained could be calculated in the PP reward, so a Perfect performance with a awesome spinner is still more rewarding than a perfect performance with a okay spinner.

i dont really see the point in this, your arguments either dont make sense (how can you even lower your pp from a score from 50 to 23 just because of a faster spin?) or are just not true (tablets dont make it easier to find your cursor back, if you have trouble finding your cursor after a spinner you are doing something wrong, not the mouse)

if you want to be high on the scoreboards learn to spin better, or play proper maps where spinners dont matter that much.

i think spinner is a part of gameplay not a bonus thing

silmarilen wrote:

can you link me 1 post-2008 map where this happened?

Sorry, no. Im not playing insanes yet but i had this happen several times on Easies and Normals now.
Looks like i missread this, i dont know how old this map is but the most recent time this happened to me wasORANGE RANGE - Ikenai Taiyou both in Osu! and CtB mode.

silmarilen wrote:

getting a 50pp score replaced by a 23pp one is quite an achievement, you would have to replace a high acc low combo score on a pretty hard map with a suprt low acc even lower combo score. and even if you lost pp because you set a better score, this is 99.99999999999% of the times because you had more 100s but earlier in the map, or had a lower max combo but still got more score. the other 0.00000000001% may be because you outspun youself. i have never seen it happen

I agree that dropping from 50 to 23 is quite a achivement, but i used these as example. I should probably have used a less exaggered example but the point stays the same.

From my personal experience its usually caused by outspinning myself (about 75% minimum), thats probably because im pretty bad and inconsistent with spinners and because i usually retry as soon i miss, 50 or get over a certain count of 100's.

silmarilen wrote:

That you need to find your cursor after a spinner is because you spin bad, not because a mouse is bad for spinning.

Yes, im bad at spinning, still its easier with a tablet. Thats why its just a minor point. I can get around that with enough training at spinning but if id be using a tablet i wouldnt need to get around it in the first place.

you quoted my post before i changed it, oh well.
the map you linked is from 2008, the map is bad because it allows you to outspin people while using fewer mods, this is an issue with the map and you shouldnt change a whole system just because a map is bad. back in 2008 and earlier the rules to get maps ranked werent so tight yet, so a lot of maps from around that time are just bad

spinning is not easier with tablet. you may find it easier with tablet, but i find it easier with mouse. should i get more points when i spin with a tablet because i find that harder?

silmarilen wrote:

you quoted my post before i changed it, oh well.
the map you linked is from 2008, the map is bad because it allows you to outspin people while using fewer mods, this is an issue with the map and you shouldnt change a whole system just because a map is bad. back in 2008 and earlier the rules to get maps ranked werent so tight yet, so a lot of maps from around that time are just bad

spinning is not easier with tablet. you may find it easier with tablet, but i find it easier with mouse. should i get more points when i spin with a tablet because i find that harder?

Oh so its a bad map i guess. Oh well.
Okay, maybe a entire change of the system is too much, but i still feel that the spinners influence the points too much. I frequently see A's ranked higher than S's or SS's, with and without mods, even on more recent maps.

Maybe just reducing the bonus points extra spinns give is a more apporative solution.

Im thinking about 100-200 points per extra spin? This way they would still work as tie breakers while not allowing to patch up misstakes as much they do now, therefore the performance would matter more than the spin. Currently one extra spin (ignoring any combo or mod multipliers) allows you to cover up 5 100's . This is too much in my oponion. 200 points would allow you to cover up one misstake per extra spin.
However im not sure how to compensate the pro spinners, as i cant simply calculate the spinns directly in the PP this way.

marcostudios wrote:

i think spinner is a part of gameplay not a bonus thing

Of course is the spinner a part of the gameplay, im talking about the bonus points from optional extra spinns here.

Max combo 50

That's why. How many maps do you know that have a combo less than 100?

You will get more performance for using more mods anyways. It doesn't matter where you place in the rankings. (I consider higher spinning more impressive for most maps under 100 combos anyways. If you're going to rank in these maps, then you better be able to spin).

CTB spinners require skill to do good on spinners. It is essential for you to learn how to catch the spinner fruit.

Last point is that you can't separate the bonus in already submitted scores.