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Mechanical Keyboard

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Total Posts
47
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob
Which one would be the best for Osu!
And If you have one I want to know which Mech Keyboard (Switches) you are using, and what you think about them.
Because I am going to buy a new Keyboard and I am struggling between the K70 (Blue) and the K95(Red) or even K70 (Brown)
Blueprint
654 posts
Joined January 2014
Blueprint
Red
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob

Blueprint wrote:

Red
Short and simple.
But what if I not only need this for osu!, but also for other games and also for 40% writing?
Would yous till reccomend the Reds?
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf
search and read the countless threads about switches in G&R, they have all the answers you need
Mathsma
473 posts
Joined March 2013
Mathsma
I've used all major switches and here is my opinion on them.

Reds are the easiest switch to press which and have no tactile feedback. These are great for stamina because of the really light switch. I feel like the lack of tactile feedback can bad on accuracy but that could be because I have grown used to the tactile feedback that blues and browns provide.

Blacks are just like the reds except they are much heavier. With the same force needed to bottom out on reds you would just be actuating the switch on the blacks. The heavier spring offers an extra push back on your fingers and that lets the switch reset faster than the reds, this can lead to an increase in speed but also a decrease in stamina if you don't have the strength for these. I am more accurate with these compared to the reds because I have to be more deliberate in my key presses.

Browns are a tactile switch with slightly more actuation force required than reds. The tactile feedback these offer is the 'bump' you feel when you press the switch. I notice I gain more control while streaming with the tactile bump than I had with reds or blacks. These are my favourite switch because it offers a slightly heavier switch with tactile feedback which is a great compromise for speed, control, and accuracy.

Blues offer the most amount of tactile feedback, it has a bump and an audible click when the switch is actuated. I have the most control with these because I can hear and feel exactly when the switch was pressed. The downside to these is that the click can be very loud and obnoxious. The actuation force required for these is between brown and black.

To sum my opinion up, I think Browns > Blacks > Blues > Red
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob

Mathsma wrote:

I've used all major switches and here is my opinion on them.

Reds are the easiest switch to press which and have no tactile feedback. These are great for stamina because of the really light switch. I feel like the lack of tactile feedback can bad on accuracy but that could be because I have grown used to the tactile feedback that blues and browns provide.

Blacks are just like the reds except they are much heavier. With the same force needed to bottom out on reds you would just be actuating the switch on the blacks. The heavier spring offers an extra push back on your fingers and that lets the switch reset faster than the reds, this can lead to an increase in speed but also a decrease in stamina if you don't have the strength for these. I am more accurate with these compared to the reds because I have to be more deliberate in my key presses.

Browns are a tactile switch with slightly more actuation force required than reds. The tactile feedback these offer is the 'bump' you feel when you press the switch. I notice I gain more control while streaming with the tactile bump than I had with reds or blacks. These are my favourite switch because it offers a slightly heavier switch with tactile feedback which is a great compromise for speed, control, and accuracy.

Blues offer the most amount of tactile feedback, it has a bump and an audible click when the switch is actuated. I have the most control with these because I can hear and feel exactly when the switch was pressed. The downside to these is that the click can be very loud and obnoxious. The actuation force required for these is between brown and black.

To sum my opinion up, I think Browns > Blacks > Blues > Red
First of all, thank you for your very very, detailed comment.
So the stamina shouldn't be the problem, because I play(ed) guitar over 3h ore day, and osu, and never really had big problems(maybe a 10 min pause but then I could go on).
Since the blacks aren't avaible for the K70 or K95, and I really want one of these, the list would look like this.
Browns > Blues > Red
I really type a lot, maybe 50%, so would you still say i should go with Browns or should i then go for Blues?
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
You can still adapt to reds for general usage. They are ideal for osu! from a technical standpoint, but if it's your first mechanical keyboard, you would do better to pick a tactile switch like brown.

IMO if you really can't make up your mind, go for browns as they cover pretty much everything from typing to gaming and give you tactile feedback. They have a very similar actuation force to reds.

I should also point out that tactile switches have a shorter life span due to the bump. Reds will generally last longer for games like osu! and you will be bottoming out most of the time (I guess, most people do).

LetsFailNoob wrote:

I really type a lot, maybe 50%, so would you still say i should go with Browns or should i then go for Blues?
Blues are not ideal for gaming, so go for browns if you want anything tactile.
Mathsma
473 posts
Joined March 2013
Mathsma
I would pick the browns because it's the best compromise switch. The bump feels great when you type and the lack of the audible click is great, I really dislike the blues for normal use because of the obnoxious click noise it has.
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob
I already had the quiestion if the blues would annoy me, in a long term, but I think i might get a problem getting a K70 with browns.
And why wouldn't blues be ideal for gaming, aren't they the same like browns but slightly stiffer and with audible click?
I mean the click is just personal preference, and right know I like them.
I just can't find any Keyboard with MX Browns that suits my needs.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
The release point on blues is so much higher than it's actuation point that you pretty much have to take your finger off the key to ensure that you press it again. This is a nightmare for double-tapping in some games (double-jumps in Q3, side-jumps in UT, etc.). While I endorse using a proper technique in osu! for accuracy reasons, it's still not ideal.
Last edited by RaneFire , edited 1 time in total.
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob
So which mechanical keyboard would you suggest me?
The thing is it has to deliver to austria (or even better an austria shop) and german layout.
I found the K70 with browns but only on the online shops I had bad expirience with
Purple
467 posts
Joined May 2011
Purple
Typing on reds is attrocious for me, its like having a nervous system disorder. You can get blues or browns and add a red switch mod later after the warranty expires.
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob
I have no Idea how to mod a keyboard.
And all the tuts seem so hard to do.
Mathsma
473 posts
Joined March 2013
Mathsma
You could try this, I don't know if you have - https://geizhals.at/?cat=kb&xf=527_deut ... own#xf_top

Maybe this can help too - http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeybo ... ping_guide


and modding a keyboard is very simple, I did it with no experience and they came out just fine. Just use a tutorial video like this and you should be fine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ_2GxeR4Es

The hardest part when I was modding my keyboard was getting the plastic frame off my keyboard, I think I spent 10 minutes trying to get that off.
Last edited by Mathsma , edited 1 time in total.
PinkHusky
28 posts
Joined April 2013
PinkHusky
This is a quick video of someone explaining about what each switch is like.
Since you say you don't just want to play osu! and you want to be able to type easily I would suggest you get yourself blue switches so you can have that familiar clicking sounds while you type.
If you think you could get used to the quiet and easy to press keys of red switches for typing then get a red switches since their the "best" for osu!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qtr6D2TWBE
Kraminka
19 posts
Joined October 2013
Kraminka
I'm currently using blues (Keyboard: http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard ... board.html), which are really great for typing. Even though I've heard a lot of people say that blues aren't as good for gaming, I haven't had any issues playing any games whatsoever.

The keyboard I use is also available in reds and browns:
http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard ... board.html

http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard ... board.html

I find typing on reds to be strange, maybe I'm just not used to it. As some others have said, as a mix of gaming and typing, perhaps browns are they way to go.
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob

PinkHusky wrote:

This is a quick video of someone explaining about what each switch is like.
Since you say you don't just want to play osu! and you want to be able to type easily I would suggest you get yourself blue switches so you can have that familiar clicking sounds while you type.
If you think you could get used to the quiet and easy to press keys of red switches for typing then get a red switches since their the "best" for osu!.

Thank you , but I already watched several of these videos.
Well I also thought so.

Mathsma wrote:

You could try this, I don't know if you have - https://geizhals.at/?cat=kb&xf=527_deut ... own#xf_top

Maybe this can help too - http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeybo ... ping_guide


and modding a keyboard is very simple, I did it with no experience and they came out just fine. Just use a tutorial video like this and you should be fine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ_2GxeR4Es

The hardest part when I was modding my keyboard was getting the plastic frame off my keyboard, I think I spent 10 minutes trying to get that off.
Thank you too, but I already checked that out.
The keyboards are either Tenkeyless, which I hate, or something that I don't think looks good for such a high price.
And with the moding, we don't have all of these things at home for moding the keyboard, and when I buy all of this, I could also buy a 2nd Keyboard.
I am also scared of damaging something, since those keyboards aren't cheap, and, because I am only 15, i don't earn any money to just buy another keyboard.

Kraminka wrote:

I'm currently using blues (Keyboard: http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard ... board.html), which are really great for typing. Even though I've heard a lot of people say that blues aren't as good for gaming, I haven't had any issues playing any games whatsoever.

The keyboard I use is also available in reds and browns:
http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard ... board.html

http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard ... board.html

I find typing on reds to be strange, maybe I'm just not used to it. As some others have said, as a mix of gaming and typing, perhaps browns are they way to go.
So you don't have any problems streaming?
I just think that, If i am going to buy a MX Brown keyboard, I'll regret not buying a blue because of the missing click.
Kraminka
19 posts
Joined October 2013
Kraminka

LetsFailNoob wrote:

So you don't have any problems streaming?
I just think that, If i am going to buy a MX Brown keyboard, I'll regret not buying a blue because of the missing click.
Nope, I have no issues playing Osu! with blues at all. If you're used to lightly actuating keys, then you may have to adjust to blues, but I've never had any trouble with them.
Mathsma
473 posts
Joined March 2013
Mathsma
Until you hit the very top level of osu! a keyboard will not affect your skill very much, even then it is a very small difference. If you have trouble finding brown switches and can only get blues then you might as well get blues. Switches are all preference and the only downside to the blues for me was the click noise which doesn't seem to bother you.
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob
I acutally really like it.
I could also imagine that the click might be helpfull staying in time. (I hope I wrote that right)
But really thank you for your help!
Just one more question, would you buy a K70 or a different keyboard lika a CM one.
Mathsma
473 posts
Joined March 2013
Mathsma
Both Corsair and CM keyboards are built really well, so I would choose based on price. If you like the wrist rest and other things the K70 may have you can go for that, but CM keyboards are usually much cheaper while being just as durable.
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob
You can't imagine how much you, and the others helped me.
Thank you very much and gl&hf
Arnold0
1,675 posts
Joined February 2012
Arnold0
I personnaly have the corsair k70 and it's really good. It's my 1st mech and I took it without even testing a mech before, with brown keys. It really looks like solid (but it's not shock resistant since it's aluminum)and is really nice to look at. The volume scrol is really useful for me, I can up the sound without even leaving osu!. Having LEDs is really useful for typing in the dark unless you know your kb by heart which is not my case. For the switch since I bottom out almost (if not completely) all the time, they are pretty noisy but idk what kind of noise it makes on other kb. (I have it since less than 3 weeks so I can't really say something interesting sorry :< )
The only problem I have is when I tilt mine I can hear something like a screw moving inside :<
Arcanine
181 posts
Joined May 2013
Arcanine
Blues or browns. If you really like stiffer keyboards, get blacks. I've tried blues, blacks, and reds but reds aren't really worth imo. Blues, browns, and blacks are pretty good for everything. Reds seem too light, but if you really like to stream then go for it.
LetsFailNoob
28 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
LetsFailNoob
And how long do you already own your keyboard?
iderekmc
369 posts
Joined April 2013
iderekmc

LetsFailNoob wrote:

Which one would be the best for Osu!
And If you have one I want to know which Mech Keyboard (Switches) you are using, and what you think about them.
Because I am going to buy a new Keyboard and I am struggling between the K70 (Blue) and the K95(Red) or even K70 (Brown)
u can get a red k70 i think
NotCookie_old
NotCookie_old

iderekmc wrote:

LetsFailNoob wrote:

Which one would be the best for Osu!
And If you have one I want to know which Mech Keyboard (Switches) you are using, and what you think about them.
Because I am going to buy a new Keyboard and I am struggling between the K70 (Blue) and the K95(Red) or even K70 (Brown)
u can get a red k70 i think
I have a red k70
Soarezi
Soarezi
get qpad-mk50
Defacer
131 posts
Joined October 2011
Defacer
­
Last edited by Defacer , edited 1 time in total.
NotCookie_old
NotCookie_old

Defacer wrote:

the general opinion is that blues are the perfect for typing

well, i have blues blackwidow and it's the worst keyboard to write I have EVER used.Really hoping to be just because Razer sucks but I can see the switch in general is shit(it's the worst for osu! too!).

Although it's preference, can ANYBODY really enjoy writing on blue swtiches? seriously....

ps: the tactile feedback + accuracy thing is bullshit, what is hitsound?
Razer blackwidow blues are different to any other blue switch. Anyone who has used a real mech with blue switches will tell you that blackwidows feel horrible.
Espionage724
876 posts
Joined August 2011
Espionage724

LetsFailNoob wrote:

I acutally really like it.
I could also imagine that the click might be helpfull staying in time. (I hope I wrote that right)
But really thank you for your help!
Just one more question, would you buy a K70 or a different keyboard lika a CM one.
It depends on how well you can take notice of the clicks, and also realizing how bottoming-out works.

With blues, the key registers about half-way during the key press, and makes a subtle click. Then you get a louder sound when you bottom out. If you bottom-out frequently when using a mech keyboard (which I heard is common when gaming or switching from rubber dome to mech), you likely don't want to base your timings off the bottom-out sound, which can be a bit tricky at first unless you really pay attention.

I don't use my mech keyboard to play osu! all that much nowadays, but I still haven't really gotten used to it (I time beats to when the key hits the keyboard, and not the actual half-way register; I notice accuracy issues with streams most of the time). Used to use a rubber dome keyboard exclusively.

As for a K70 or CM, I'd choose CM, but that's mainly just based off of what information I've heard that I can't really recall exactly 8-) I believe it had something to do with CM using some higher-quality company to build the switches or the base or something, but I don't know (someone should be able to provide better info though).

Also, for a different suggestion for a key switch, could also try buckling springs found on an IBM Model M 8-) I kind of prefer that switch over blues, but the Model M is... huge (and lacks a Windows key). Perhaps a space saver from Unicomp would be perfect for me.
Caam
99 posts
Joined February 2013
Caam
whats the difference between k95 and k70?
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

Nukes32 wrote:

whats the difference between k95 and k70?
25

Or a shitload of macro buttons.
Espionage724
876 posts
Joined August 2011
Espionage724
Hmm, so I have an opportunity to either get a replacement blue switch keyboard, or a red switch keyboard (both CM Storm; my Z key currently only activates half the time). I'm using blue switches currently.

Reds sound like they would be interesting, but from what I hear, they have really light activation force? Can someone give a scenario where that might be a problem?
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

Espionage724 wrote:

Reds sound like they would be interesting, but from what I hear, they have really light activation force? Can someone give a scenario where that might be a problem?
It makes typing uncomfortable if you aren't used to red switches.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

Espionage724 wrote:

Hmm, so I have an opportunity to either get a replacement blue switch keyboard, or a red switch keyboard (both CM Storm; my Z key currently only activates half the time). I'm using blue switches currently.

Reds sound like they would be interesting, but from what I hear, they have really light activation force? Can someone give a scenario where that might be a problem?
Perhaps the question should be asked like this...

For people who had blue switch keyboards fro a long time, what was the change like... going from blues to red switches for osu!? (No www/cookiezi references pls)

Kind of interested myself.
encryptik
94 posts
Joined August 2013
encryptik

RaneFire wrote:

Espionage724 wrote:

Hmm, so I have an opportunity to either get a replacement blue switch keyboard, or a red switch keyboard (both CM Storm; my Z key currently only activates half the time). I'm using blue switches currently.

Reds sound like they would be interesting, but from what I hear, they have really light activation force? Can someone give a scenario where that might be a problem?
Perhaps the question should be asked like this...

For people who had blue switch keyboards fro a long time, what was the change like... going from blues to red switches for osu!? (No www/cookiezi references pls)

Kind of interested myself.
Might not be applicable because I'm using Blacks now, but the difference was pretty massive on a high bpm stream map, actually did a bit of a test a few days ago.

Blacks are fairly similar to reds though (just a bit heavier)

Outlined the plays in which I was using blues, might be a mental thing but it seemed to make a massive difference for me?

GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

encryptik wrote:

Outlined the plays in which I was using blues, might be a mental thing but it seemed to make a massive difference for me?

I think you were using blues wrong, if that's even possible
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

encryptik wrote:

Might not be applicable because I'm using Blacks now, but the difference was pretty massive on a high bpm stream map, actually did a bit of a test a few days ago.

Blacks are fairly similar to reds though (just a bit heavier)

Outlined the plays in which I was using blues, might be a mental thing but it seemed to make a massive difference for me?

Well I guess that would be a technique problem though, but I can see where you're going. Your technique suits a linear switch.

Do you even lift? :D

How about people who can play well on blues?
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Dexus
I'd say go for pcb mounted at the least so you don't have to deal with soldering. It makes it much easier to swap out the switches so you can try a variety or replace broken ones.

Also I don't hear much talk about topre switches. I'm looking to get this just due to the form factor http://matias.ca/miniquietpro/pc/
Last edited by Dexus , edited 1 time in total.
Defacer
131 posts
Joined October 2011
Defacer
­
Last edited by Defacer , edited 1 time in total.
encryptik
94 posts
Joined August 2013
encryptik
Consecutive runs (the 94% being on the next day), although I did start with blues and go to blacks, probably something to do with it... Although at any given time if I compare my streaming speed from blues to blacks there's a 10-20 bpm difference. Quite possibly the tapping style i'm using is much more suited to blacks.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Dexus
With blacks you mostly just have to focus on pressing down (Says lewa) so most anyone can get a speed boost from using it. Blues are kind of awkward for those that like to bottom out because you have to sit around that reset point and the tactile click can get in the way if you're lightly moving your fingers (So you got to focus on going up and down). Again I'm interested in topre switches because you have to bottom out and making contact with the bottom is what actuates it instead of a random point somewhere in the middle like the cherry switches.

For the time being I use blacks and I enjoy them more than any other switch just due to how solid they feel. Reds felt too light and I couldn't control my fingers as easily. Browns aren't really a bad choice, but something without a tactile feedback would be far more effective.
Defacer
131 posts
Joined October 2011
Defacer
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Last edited by Defacer , edited 1 time in total.
Caam
99 posts
Joined February 2013
Caam
my k70 cherry MX red finally arrived today and after playing a couple of rounds i have to say its 4 times better than my $10 keyboard and my laptop keyboard. its like you can stream forever without ever being tired and click even faster.my other keyboards I get tired after half way through a stream song and get a bunch of 50's and 100's but the k70 is just amazing.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

encryptik wrote:

Outlined the plays in which I was using blues, might be a mental thing but it seemed to make a massive difference for me?

Assuming you missed EVERY stream, the maximum accuracy you can get is 61.4%
To boost this accuracy to 70, you would need 157 100's; this isn't hard because there are 235 total circles that are included in the streams, and this doesn't even count getting the first note or the first few notes a 300, which would decrease the number of 100s needed even more.

Now theoretically if you under-streamed due to the switches "affecting" your stream speed/skill, say instead of the 220bpm you streamed with reds you streamed 180bpm with blues, you would hit on average 82% of the notes with 300s; this however is not the case because osu! won't register clicks for the notes that you wanted to hit until the note previously has either disappeared fully or hit.
I'm not sure where to find the exact OD values, but for you to hit 220 bpm, you need to register a keystroke every 68.2ms, and for 180bpm, you need to register a keystroke every 83.33ms, and the average stream length of the map is around 25, expecting to miss at least 40 notes.

Now say that at least 30 of these were 300s, (would be more in an actual play, because the first few notes of a stream will always be easier due to bursting) then you would only need 67 more 100s, out of 165 notes.

This of course assumes that you 100% everything non stream, though the same point would be proven even if you got something say 95%.

Therefore I conclude that you are riding red switches so hard that you began to tell yourself and act as if any other switches worsens your play dramatically, or you weren't under the same circumstances and got lucky.
I honestly doubt that any type of switches could dramatically change your stream skills by that much. Maybe a 10% difference, but a 25%? The map only has a moderate amount of streams.

You're obviously putting them in different scenarios.
encryptik
94 posts
Joined August 2013
encryptik
Assuming you missed EVERY stream, the maximum accuracy you can get is 61.4%
To boost this accuracy to 70, you would need 157 100's; this isn't hard because there are 235 total circles that are included in the streams, and this doesn't even count getting the first note or the first few notes a 300, which would decrease the number of 100s needed even more.

Now theoretically if you under-streamed due to the switches "affecting" your stream speed/skill, say instead of the 220bpm you streamed with reds you streamed 180bpm with blues, you would hit on average 82% of the notes with 300s; this however is not the case because osu! won't register clicks for the notes that you wanted to hit until the note previously has either disappeared fully or hit.
I'm not sure where to find the exact OD values, but for you to hit 220 bpm, you need to register a keystroke every 68.2ms, and for 180bpm, you need to register a keystroke every 83.33ms, and the average stream length of the map is around 25, expecting to miss at least 40 notes.

Now say that at least 30 of these were 300s, (would be more in an actual play, because the first few notes of a stream will always be easier due to bursting) then you would only need 67 more 100s, out of 165 notes.

This of course assumes that you 100% everything non stream, though the same point would be proven even if you got something say 95%.

Therefore I conclude that you are riding red switches so hard that you began to tell yourself and act as if any other switches worsens your play dramatically, or you weren't under the same circumstances and got lucky.
I honestly doubt that any type of switches could dramatically change your stream skills by that much. Maybe a 10% difference, but a 25%? The map only has a moderate amount of streams.

You're obviously putting them in different scenarios.[/quote]
As I said, there were placed in different scenarios. As the plays with blues were my first 3 attempts at the map, this doesn't change the point that I would get 100-50s after the first few notes of every stream with blues, it's entirely possible I wasn't use to them as well, as I hadn't used them for a few days prior to this.

By the was I wasn't using reds, as I said in my original post.
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