2014-02-15 23:49 11t: hi okay
2014-02-15 23:49 11t: 01:14:767 (1) -
2014-02-15 23:49 11t: this thing
2014-02-15 23:49 11t: did anyone bring this up?
2014-02-15 23:49 GoldenWolf: I think someone did
2014-02-15 23:50 GoldenWolf:
p/28527982014-02-15 23:50 11t: so the issue I have with it
2014-02-15 23:50 GoldenWolf: Zarerion too, but he told me it'd be fine with tick rate 2, which I did
2014-02-15 23:51 11t: it's not really an issue with readability for me
2014-02-15 23:51 11t: it's more that it just kills the flow imo
2014-02-15 23:51 11t: the transition into 01:15:273 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - after this slow slider
2014-02-15 23:51 11t: feels disjointed
2014-02-15 23:52 11t: it's like you've got a slow slider that the player doesn't really have to move at all for because of the bending
2014-02-15 23:52 11t: and then you've got this sequence of spaced hitcircles right after
2014-02-15 23:52 11t: but it's not even like, right after
2014-02-15 23:52 11t: there's a 1/2 gap between the next hitcircle and the end of the slider]=
2014-02-15 23:52 11t: ]so like
2014-02-15 23:53 11t: I think the main issue is that
2014-02-15 23:53 11t: you don't have something to mark the end of the slowdown with
2014-02-15 23:53 11t: usually when people use single slow SV sliders
2014-02-15 23:53 11t: it's right before a 1/4 snapped fast slider
2014-02-15 23:53 11t: lots of people start off kiai sections with that combination
2014-02-15 23:54 11t: slow SV slider that ends on blue tick -> fast/regular SV slider that starts on white tick
2014-02-15 23:54 GoldenWolf: I see
2014-02-15 23:54 11t: this works because you've got the action of the player clicking right after the slow SV slider ends
2014-02-15 23:54 11t: so that's a strong indicator that marks the end of the slowdown
2014-02-15 23:55 11t: here, you've got a slow slider, and then a 1/2 gap, and then a sequence of spaced hitcircles
2014-02-15 23:55 11t: just personally I don't like it
2014-02-15 23:56 11t: have you thought about using 3/4 sliders?
2014-02-15 23:57 GoldenWolf: I didn't
2014-02-15 23:57 GoldenWolf: Because I don't like them most of the time
2014-02-15 23:57 11t: the map in general is very 1/2-y
2014-02-15 23:57 11t: I'm not sure if you've thought about using 3/4 before but like, just didn't want to
2014-02-15 23:57 GoldenWolf: and here I can't use a 3/4, would end too early
2014-02-15 23:58 GoldenWolf: And I didn't find any nice spot for the use of 3/4 sliders either
2014-02-15 23:58 11t: yeah, a 3/4 here would end early, but tbh most 3/4s do
2014-02-15 23:58 11t: I think it's an option
2014-02-15 23:58 11t: that's not really particularly your mapping style though huh
2014-02-15 23:58 GoldenWolf: yeah :p
2014-02-15 23:58 GoldenWolf: I don't think a 3/4 would work better here
2014-02-15 23:58 11t: in general I don't like these slow sliders
2014-02-15 23:59 11t: 01:21:509 (4) -
2014-02-15 23:59 11t: 01:26:902 (4) -
2014-02-15 23:59 11t: etc
2014-02-15 23:59 11t: I just think they're counter-flow
2014-02-15 23:59 11t: sometimes counterflow is okay, like, if it adds contrast to the map
2014-02-15 23:59 11t: but these slowdowns don't have enough impact by themselves
2014-02-16 00:00 11t: personally what I would do
2014-02-16 00:00 11t: is get rid of the slowdown, or increase the speed a bit so it's not as slow
2014-02-16 00:00 11t: and then use a 3/4 into a 1/1 slider
2014-02-16 00:01 11t: this sort of fits the guitar rhythm more too I think
2014-02-16 00:01 11t: since the guitar starts on the red tick
2014-02-16 00:01 11t: 01:21:846 - here
2014-02-16 00:01 11t: but you end your slider here
2014-02-16 00:01 GoldenWolf: If don't make them as slow as they're now, they'd have no impact at all, so that's kinda useless
2014-02-16 00:01 11t: it'd fit much better if you started a slider at 01:21:846 - instead of ending one
2014-02-16 00:02 GoldenWolf: nah
2014-02-16 00:02 11t: so for example if you made 01:21:509 (4) - into a 3/4 instead
2014-02-16 00:02 GoldenWolf: They'd be offbeat sliders
2014-02-16 00:02 11t: moved 01:22:014 (1) - over the 01:21:846
2014-02-16 00:02 11t: and then extended it to a 1/1
2014-02-16 00:02 11t: offbeat sliders are fine, you use them earlier in the map
2014-02-16 00:02 GoldenWolf: that wouldn't work
2014-02-16 00:02 GoldenWolf: skipping the downbeat
2014-02-16 00:03 GoldenWolf: while there is actually something on it
2014-02-16 00:03 GoldenWolf: isn't great
2014-02-16 00:03 11t: you could make the 1/1 into a 1/2 repeat then
2014-02-16 00:03 GoldenWolf: I skipped at 01:23:194 (1) - and 01:24:543 (1) - because there was nothing other than the background drumming, which is fine
2014-02-16 00:04 GoldenWolf: I want the player to hit on the downbeat, so that wouldn't work either
2014-02-16 00:04 11t: okay, 3/4 -> hitcircle -> 1/2 gap -> 1/2 slider
2014-02-16 00:05 11t: just ideas if you want to try them out
2014-02-16 00:05 11t: the problems I see with the slow sliders now are
2014-02-16 00:06 11t: 1. they don't have enough impact by themselves to justify killing the flow
2014-02-16 00:06 11t: 2. they end on a guitar note, while it'd be preferable to have the player hit something on that note
2014-02-16 00:07 GoldenWolf: I agree with the second, although I don't want to use a 3/4 here, that's not justified enough for me
2014-02-16 00:07 11t: that's okay then
2014-02-16 00:08 11t: okay lemme testplay through it a bit more
2014-02-16 00:09 11t: 01:12:408 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - this is totally unreadable for me
2014-02-16 00:09 11t: I'm bad at this game though
2014-02-16 00:09 11t: but just thought you should know
2014-02-16 00:09 GoldenWolf: it's a
2014-02-16 00:10 GoldenWolf: triple - single - triple - single - 5stream
2014-02-16 00:11 11t: for those sorts of things I just go home
2014-02-16 00:12 11t: 01:25:554 (1,2) - might be an issue
2014-02-16 00:12 GoldenWolf: ~
2014-02-16 00:12 GoldenWolf: ;_;
2014-02-16 00:12 11t: it's a 7/10 on the is-it-an-issue scale
2014-02-16 00:13 GoldenWolf: sounds high
2014-02-16 00:13 11t: it's sorta high
2014-02-16 00:13 11t: it's not like OMG PLS FIX high but it's definitely up there
2014-02-16 00:14 GoldenWolf: You're not the first one to point out that pattern ;_;
2014-02-16 00:14 11t: I mean it's like, you have these two triples right
2014-02-16 00:14 11t: and then you have a hitcircle that's like, spaced
2014-02-16 00:14 11t: so immediately players think you know
2014-02-16 00:14 11t: "oh that's a 1/2 I have to click that now"
2014-02-16 00:14 GoldenWolf: wellll
2014-02-16 00:15 GoldenWolf: that's not a problem if you don't rush
2014-02-16 00:15 GoldenWolf: because of ar9
2014-02-16 00:15 GoldenWolf: 1/1 gap is really readable imo
2014-02-16 00:15 11t: this might be another "11t is bad at gaem" thing
2014-02-16 00:16 GoldenWolf: if you notice it's always on this guitar thing where I do a slowdown of some sort
2014-02-16 00:16 11t: but I still think it's more ambiguous than it has to be
2014-02-16 00:16 11t: maybe just like
2014-02-16 00:16 11t: as a bandaid
2014-02-16 00:16 11t: 01:25:891 (1) - new combo
2014-02-16 00:16 GoldenWolf: aaa nc spam
2014-02-16 00:17 11t: you mean aaa colors so nice and pretty
2014-02-16 00:17 11t: nc spam = excuse to give your map more colors
2014-02-16 00:17 11t: I mean if you really don't like the NC spam just 01:25:554 (7) - un-NC?
2014-02-16 00:17 GoldenWolf: no I really think this is fine
2014-02-16 00:18 11t: NC isn't necessary there
2014-02-16 00:18 11t: it's okay to end a triple combo on a finish
2014-02-16 00:18 11t: it's standard practice
2014-02-16 00:18 GoldenWolf: actually the actual nc is a help to read it
2014-02-16 00:19 GoldenWolf: without nc it might really get confusing
2014-02-16 00:19 11t: also you get the geki to coincide with the finish
2014-02-16 00:19 11t: if you un-NC the 7
2014-02-16 00:19 GoldenWolf: un-fc the 1 you mean
2014-02-16 00:19 GoldenWolf: NC*
2014-02-16 00:19 11t: uh, yes
2014-02-16 00:20 11t: and then if you NC the current 2 it just makes the 1/1 gap easier to read
2014-02-16 00:20 11t: standard practice is to NC all 1/1 gaps
2014-02-16 00:20 11t: so people used to that will tend to recognize the gap more if they see a new combo
2014-02-16 00:20 GoldenWolf: that actually might be better
2014-02-16 00:20 GoldenWolf: alright changed
2014-02-16 00:21 GoldenWolf: for that
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/13397872014-02-16 00:21 11t: yeah that might make it easier to read
2014-02-16 00:22 11t: I can't tell anymore tbh since I know the gap's there, so I'm always going to land it now regardless
2014-02-16 00:22 11t: aaaanywaqy
2014-02-16 00:22 11t: do you use whistle hitsounds at all?
2014-02-16 00:22 11t: the um, non-drum ones
2014-02-16 00:22 GoldenWolf: only soft whistle
2014-02-16 00:23 GoldenWolf: on 3/4 reverse sliders
2014-02-16 00:23 11t: oh you do use soft whistles?
2014-02-16 00:23 GoldenWolf: oh and I used the normal whistle on some sliders
2014-02-16 00:23 GoldenWolf: 00:56:902 (3) -
2014-02-16 00:23 11t: 01:41:396 (3) - yeah here too
2014-02-16 00:23 GoldenWolf: following natsu's suggestion to add them
2014-02-16 00:23 GoldenWolf: I think they're fine, even if the normal whistle is obnoxious to me
2014-02-16 00:24 11t: yeah normal whistles are good on guitar squeals
2014-02-16 00:24 11t: it's like, standard practice tbh
2014-02-16 00:24 11t: 01:46:116 (1,2,3,4,5) - you could consider adding soft whistles here
2014-02-16 00:24 GoldenWolf: mh? how so?
2014-02-16 00:25 11t: if you want some contrast in the frequency space
2014-02-16 00:25 11t: you're following the violins with the pattern here right?
2014-02-16 00:26 11t: if you add soft whistles here it helps to bring that out more
2014-02-16 00:26 11t: also gives you more tonal variety
2014-02-16 00:26 11t: this entire section has just been drumdrumdrum
2014-02-16 00:27 11t: you'll have to give up your drum claps though, personally I don't think that's an issue
2014-02-16 00:27 11t: I think the whistles just provide you with some nice buildup contrast for the strong snare hits that follow at 01:46:958 (6,7,8) -
2014-02-16 00:28 GoldenWolf: okay
2014-02-16 00:29 GoldenWolf: 01:01:621 (1) - doesn't work as well there though
2014-02-16 00:29 GoldenWolf: I guess it still works just fine tho
2014-02-16 00:30 11t: it could work there too, though it's not as nice there since you've already got some high tonal sounds from the finishes
2014-02-16 00:30 11t: in general I think your map COULD benefit from more soft whistles
2014-02-16 00:30 11t: there are a lot of opportunities to use them
2014-02-16 00:30 11t: I'm sort of biased towards the soft whistle hitsound though
2014-02-16 00:30 GoldenWolf: I was much more focused on the drums while hitsound so it's very possible :3
2014-02-16 00:31 11t: but it does add some tonal variety to your percussion-focused hitsounding
2014-02-16 00:33 GoldenWolf: changed
2014-02-16 00:33 11t: 03:26:059 - you could do some hitsound stuff here too
2014-02-16 00:33 11t: to follow the bass
2014-02-16 00:33 11t: consider using default drum clap and drum finish
2014-02-16 00:34 GoldenWolf: I used default drum clap on 03:33:981 (1) -
2014-02-16 00:34 GoldenWolf: because of the drums
2014-02-16 00:34 GoldenWolf: using default drum claps for something would be awkward imo
2014-02-16 00:34 11t: well for example just try like
2014-02-16 00:34 11t: 03:26:059 (5,6) - default drum clap
2014-02-16 00:35 11t: 03:26:396 (7,8) - default drum finish
2014-02-16 00:35 11t: it's subtle but it does have an effect on the soundspace here
2014-02-16 00:35 11t: 03:33:981 (1,2,3,4,5) - yeah and this part is good
2014-02-16 00:36 11t: the hitsounds give this a lot more impact
2014-02-16 00:36 11t: but consider changing 03:34:486 (4,5) - to drum finishes
2014-02-16 00:37 11t: 03:24:037 - this like entire section is just great
2014-02-16 00:37 11t: and the way it leads into the guitar solo
2014-02-16 00:37 11t: <3
2014-02-16 00:37 GoldenWolf: okay changed for both
2014-02-16 00:38 11t: and that circular triple flow at the beginning of the guitar solo is just hng
2014-02-16 00:38 11t: I die so rip me but it's still amazing
2014-02-16 00:38 GoldenWolf: so much praise woah
2014-02-16 00:38 11t: this section is just really good
2014-02-16 00:39 11t: you've mapped it really well
2014-02-16 00:39 GoldenWolf: >w<
2014-02-16 00:40 11t: 03:45:947 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - it's just too good
2014-02-16 00:40 11t: the transition from slow to fast SV is handled really well
2014-02-16 00:41 11t: this section is the section that's going to be making people want to play this map over and over
2014-02-16 00:41 11t: this is like the hook of your map
2014-02-16 00:42 GoldenWolf: that's one long hook
2014-02-16 00:42 11t: well it IS a long map so it's good that you have a long hook
2014-02-16 00:42 11t: 03:50:329 (1,2,3) - this is okay but
2014-02-16 00:42 11t: tbh I wouldn't preferred 3/4 sliders
2014-02-16 00:43 11t: mimics the sustain of the guitar better
2014-02-16 00:43 GoldenWolf: this 3/4 circle works really well imo
2014-02-16 00:44 GoldenWolf: like, when I spec people sightreading it they always read it perfectly
2014-02-16 00:44 GoldenWolf: I would really keep it as it is
2014-02-16 00:44 11t: yeah it's no issue with readability
2014-02-16 00:44 11t: it's definitely readable
2014-02-16 00:44 GoldenWolf: also feel the OD9 with some more circles
2014-02-16 00:44 11t: pls no
2014-02-16 00:44 11t: it's okay I die before this part anyway so I never have to
2014-02-16 00:45 11t: 04:16:621 - this stream is a nice touch
2014-02-16 00:45 GoldenWolf: if you notice
2014-02-16 00:45 11t: how did you even make these streams anyway
2014-02-16 00:45 GoldenWolf: 04:05:835 (1) -
2014-02-16 00:45 11t: they're so nice and circly
2014-02-16 00:45 GoldenWolf: you enter that part with a going-high stream
2014-02-16 00:45 11t: did you use a slider? it looks too circly to be from a slider
2014-02-16 00:45 GoldenWolf: because the pitch is going up
2014-02-16 00:46 GoldenWolf: and when the pitch is going down I use a going-down stream
2014-02-16 00:46 GoldenWolf: ww
2014-02-16 00:46 GoldenWolf: and yes I use sliders to make them
2014-02-16 00:46 11t: clever gowochii
2014-02-16 00:46 11t: well if you care 04:21:508 (11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2) - this isn't exactly circly
2014-02-16 00:47 11t: 04:21:677 (13) - seems to jut out too much, just a bit
2014-02-16 00:47 GoldenWolf: it's not but it's on purpose
2014-02-16 00:49 GoldenWolf: else it couldn't lead well into the second part of the stream
2014-02-16 00:50 11t: 04:28:756 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1,2,3,4) - if you were nice you'd delete these and make it a break
2014-02-16 00:50 11t: oho
2014-02-16 00:50 11t: clever gowocchi
2014-02-16 00:51 GoldenWolf: but i'm not nice and so is the song on you so no break rip
2014-02-16 00:51 GoldenWolf: also I don't see a break there, really
2014-02-16 00:51 11t: geez not having any bookmarks here
2014-02-16 00:51 11t: makes it hard for me to keep track of where I am
2014-02-16 00:52 GoldenWolf: actually the bookmark density was twice as high as the amount of green lines
2014-02-16 00:53 GoldenWolf: and finally why would you need a break over such a slow section
2014-02-16 00:53 GoldenWolf: like, 1/1 repeat sliders circles everything is 1/1 spaced, it's like back to [Normal]
2014-02-16 00:53 11t: i have to adjust my pen because it slips
2014-02-16 00:53 11t: and by the time I get there it's like, I'm holding the pen by the very end of it
2014-02-16 00:54 GoldenWolf: you have all the time you need on these slow sliders!
2014-02-16 00:57 11t: gah
2014-02-16 00:57 11t: I made it halfway through the solo
2014-02-16 00:57 11t: I could probably do it if there were breaks!
2014-02-16 00:58 GoldenWolf: no break! sorry!
2014-02-16 01:02 11t: oh god triples so many triples
2014-02-16 01:03 GoldenWolf: triples swarm
2014-02-16 01:04 11t: 06:37:351 (3,4) - this is strange
2014-02-16 01:04 GoldenWolf: why?
2014-02-16 01:05 11t: guitar note starts at 06:37:857 -
2014-02-16 01:05 11t: but your slider for it starts at 06:38:025 -
2014-02-16 01:05 GoldenWolf: starts on the claps
2014-02-16 01:05 11t: 06:36:003 (1,2) - same here
2014-02-16 01:05 GoldenWolf: else I can't have a clap pattern with 1/1 sliders
2014-02-16 01:06 11t: well the easy fix would be to copy the clap sound
2014-02-16 01:06 11t: and name it to soft-slidertick3 or whatever
2014-02-16 01:06 11t: and then just change to that in the middle of the slider
2014-02-16 01:06 GoldenWolf: I hate slidertick hitsound
2014-02-16 01:07 GoldenWolf: I use very very rarely and only if really necessary
2014-02-16 01:07 11t: at this point I mean, the clap sound has become like, background stuff
2014-02-16 01:07 11t: the player probably isn't even aware that they've been tapping on claps up til now
2014-02-16 01:07 GoldenWolf: also it'd be ruined if people ignore custom hitsounds
2014-02-16 01:07 11t: that's true but tbh
2014-02-16 01:07 11t: if people ignore custom hitsounds then the whole map will sound terrible anyway
2014-02-16 01:07 GoldenWolf: I try to make it less terrible ;_;
2014-02-16 01:08 11t: if they ignore custom hitsounds they're probalby just using the bubble popping sound for everything
2014-02-16 01:08 11t: in which case there's no difference
2014-02-16 01:08 GoldenWolf: slidertick hitsounds is still a no-no
2014-02-16 01:09 11t: well in that case I think that's it
2014-02-16 01:09 11t: I don't see any other issues
2014-02-16 01:16 GoldenWolf: nothing to say about the choruses?
2014-02-16 01:16 GoldenWolf: apart from "triplestriplestriples"
2014-02-16 01:16 11t: um
2014-02-16 01:17 11t: I mean
2014-02-16 01:17 11t: I'm so focused on trying to get the triples
2014-02-16 01:17 11t: that I can't really focus on anything else
2014-02-16 01:17 11t: I mean it looks nice
2014-02-16 01:17 GoldenWolf: r-rip
2014-02-16 01:17 11t: flow-wise I can't really tell since I'm too focused on spamming buttons for triples
2014-02-16 01:17 11t: I can't pay attention to where I'm going
2014-02-16 01:18 11t: the triangle jumps are nice
2014-02-16 01:18 11t: my fingers get a break from having to spam triples so
2014-02-16 01:19 GoldenWolf: since you alternate I can picture it
2014-02-16 01:19 GoldenWolf: think about poor singletap players
2014-02-16 01:19 GoldenWolf: their only breaks are 1/2 sliders
2014-02-16 01:19 11t: it's harder because I alternate!
2014-02-16 01:19 GoldenWolf: and occasional 1/1
2014-02-16 01:19 GoldenWolf: easier stamina-wise!
2014-02-16 01:20 11t: I get confused with which finger I used to start my triples with
2014-02-16 01:20 11t: and I end up mixing them up
2014-02-16 01:20 11t: also you say "think about poor singletap players"
2014-02-16 01:20 11t: but secretly you're evil-laughing inside
2014-02-16 01:20 11t: "no breaks bwahaha"
2014-02-16 01:21 GoldenWolf: oh snap, you caught me