I've been playing osu! for like 9 months with mouse and last week I decided to buy a tablet. I knew I would have to learn everything from scratch, but I was happy that I was learning a lot faster these past 4 days that I played only with the tablet. But then I decided to play with mouse to get a good score in some songs and then I noticed I was playing horribly with it. I cant even complete some songs I could get S. Is that normal or am I just retarded in some way? This is very frustrating. Feels like this whole time practicing was a huge waste of time. I tried playing some more but I am still very bad.
Should I forget about the tablet and switch back to mouse? Can you people play well with both?

Well you actually didn't waste your time. It helps.
My suggestion is stick to the tablet, and one day you'll play well on tablet, and your mouse skill won't be too bad at the same time.

You will probably suck with a mouse unless you use it a lot. If you want to use a tablet, then practicing tablet isn't a waste of time. I can play decently with a mouse because my mouse sensitivity is pretty proportionate to my tablet area (450 dpi and full tablet area), so transitioning from tablet to mouse isn't so bad because I just have to get used to the quirks of the mouse and not the sensitivity change.

Using the tablet actually HELPED me use the mouse

My suggestion is use whatever the hell you want. If you feel like playing with the mouse instead of the tablet, do it. Visa versa.

I often have days where my mouse feels a bit sluggish... but nothing has changed from before. On those days I whip out the tablet. I've been spending roughly equal amounts playing both because of it. If I feel like I can't hold my pen properly, or is not natural, I use the mouse. BUT NOTHING CHANGED. It's just how I feel!

Whichever peripheral I am "on a roll" with, on the day, I stick to it, because I have forced the change before and just ended up sucking with both for the rest of the day.

"Day" is not always a day. Sometimes I stick to one for a whole month without touching the other.

Point is... if you can play with it, and nothing feels wrong or inadequate. Then why change?

-APXH wrote:

Using the tablet actually HELPED me use the mouse

yeah, after I played with a tablet for a week, my snapping got a lot better with mouse. Nevertheless, I didn't like tablet play and I ended up giving it to a friend. Still, it improved my aiming.

Using the tablet helped me use my mouse even better. I have no idea why, it feels like im using a pen while holding the mouse

The main reason why you can't play mouse anymore is the difference in sensitivities. If you want to be able to freely switch between tablet and mouse, you might want to make them match (although I'd recommend lowering your mouse sensitivity rather than shrinking your tablet area).

YayMii wrote:

The main reason why you can't play mouse anymore is the difference in sensitivities. If you want to be able to freely switch between tablet and mouse, you might want to make them match (although I'd recommend lowering your mouse sensitivity rather than shrinking your tablet area).

I don't know why people think this is the case. Where is the proof?

And I don't want flowcharts and data spreadsheets. Give some real living examples.

RaneFire wrote:

I don't know why people think this is the case. Where is the proof?

And I don't want flowcharts and data spreadsheets. Give some real living examples.

How about myself? I'm more-or-less the same skill level on mouse as I am on tablet. I play at 450dpi on mouse, full area (16:9, forced proportions) on tablet. The way I hold the pen makes them feel about the same, aside from the fact that mouse is using relative tracking while tablet uses absolute tracking.

I used to play on 800dpi, and I found that it took me really long to transition between the two (and I mean, spending about an hour getting used to it), until I found a DPI that matched the feel of the tablet. Now it takes me a minute or two before I'm ready to play. I've gotten Insane FCs back-to-back switching play styles between songs before, if that means anything.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, I play tablet left-handed and mouse right-handed. But I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.

The thing is. You don't really realise how much attention you are paying to your cursor. Players who claim not to look at their cursor, do in fact know where it is and where it went last, and what they did to get it there. There is always a "check" process. It's how we learn and get better.

It is very much adaptation rather than find some settings and then "oh I can do that every time because they are the same and I used them forever"
- well no, you get better at learning how your peripheral moves, the angle deviation (thanks to logitech's video) and distances depending also upon the position of your hand and your grip... and that's why you get better the more you play with it.

If you had a robot hand that was bolted to your desk in one place, I'd agree with you. But you don't.

EDIT:
Anyway... the reason the OP is feeling like he can't play with either, is because he hasn't quite grasped the different movements with the tablet. But his brain has gotten used to the errors and is learning by adaptation. So when he goes back to the mouse he is expecting errors, but there are much less, and is compensating for errors which don't exist because of bad muscle memory with the tablet, which throws him off. Once he learns both he will find the differences getting less and less with time. But if you stick to one peripheral for a while and improve considerably, what you have learned has made you more consistent with that peripheral. Because you are now more consistent, your brain tries to compare the old feeling you once had, and thinks,"hmm, I sure as hell was more accurate with the mouse." The problem is that your prior reference point hasn't moved, but when you play it again... you think it has and feel like it has (for better or worse depending how good you were)... caused by getting better at using one peripheral and not the other. And let's not forget you got better at the game in the process.

Learning to play it though, in turn means you have greater control over your movements, since you've learned how to use some "neglected" muscles in your hand a bit better, with finer control. This works out as a positive either way.

YayMii wrote:

I've gotten Insane FCs back-to-back switching play styles between songs before, if that means anything.

I also have back to back Insane FC's and I have completely different sensitivities. Point is, if I feel really "in-tune" with one, I play above my normal skill level. When I say I begin to suck with both, what I really mean is I mess up that feeling I had and return to being normal.

lgos wrote:

Is that normal or am I just retarded in some way?

Maybe

I say play with both of them, moue some days, tablet others, and you'll be use to both of them!!

you need to practice doing

Wow. Forgot to check for more replies.

YayMii wrote:

RaneFire wrote:

I don't know why people think this is the case. Where is the proof?

And I don't want flowcharts and data spreadsheets. Give some real living examples.

How about myself? I'm more-or-less the same skill level on mouse as I am on tablet. I play at 450dpi on mouse, full area (16:9, forced proportions) on tablet. The way I hold the pen makes them feel about the same, aside from the fact that mouse is using relative tracking while tablet uses absolute tracking.

I used to play on 800dpi, and I found that it took me really long to transition between the two (and I mean, spending about an hour getting used to it), until I found a DPI that matched the feel of the tablet. Now it takes me a minute or two before I'm ready to play. I've gotten Insane FCs back-to-back switching play styles between songs before, if that means anything.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, I play tablet left-handed and mouse right-handed. But I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.

Don't you find 450dpi too tiring? After a long fast song I my hand gets tired even with 800dpi. And strangely for me playing with the tablet feels like the sensitivity is higher than the mouse with 800dpi.
And another thing. I read somewhere that you should turn off mouse acceleration and I've been playing with it on since the beggining. I think that might be the reason I cant get used to both devices at the same time, right? Or shouldn't I worry about that?

I am so pissed off I am considereing never playing this game again (like I could) and selling this goddamned tablet.

lgos wrote:

Don't you find 450dpi too tiring? After a long fast song I my hand gets tired even with 800dpi. And strangely for me playing with the tablet feels like the sensitivity is higher than the mouse with 800dpi.

You get used to low DPI with practice, full area tablet doesn't feel that slow because a pen is lighter than a mouse, easier to move it around

lgos wrote:

And another thing. I read somewhere that you should turn off mouse acceleration and I've been playing with it on since the beggining. I think that might be the reason I cant get used to both devices at the same time, right? Or shouldn't I worry about that?

Yeah, turn it off, mouse accel is like really bad for muscle memory

GoldenWolf wrote:

lgos wrote:

Don't you find 450dpi too tiring? After a long fast song I my hand gets tired even with 800dpi. And strangely for me playing with the tablet feels like the sensitivity is higher than the mouse with 800dpi.

You get used to low DPI with practice, full area tablet doesn't feel that slow because a pen is lighter than a mouse, easier to move it around

lgos wrote:

And another thing. I read somewhere that you should turn off mouse acceleration and I've been playing with it on since the beggining. I think that might be the reason I cant get used to both devices at the same time, right? Or shouldn't I worry about that?

Yeah, turn it off, mouse accel is like really bad for muscle memory

The thing is somehow I've built muscle memory with mouse acceleration and now the cursor wont go where it was "supposed" to.
Well, well i think I'll have to comply and start like it was from scratch. Right when i was starting to get a bit better...

Anyway, i don't think I would be able to leave the tablet, playing with it feels so good, even if I'm bad at it. In the end it's just game (hardcore players please don't throw rocks at me) whats important is to have fun.

Wow this is exactly what happened to me.

I played osu with mouse acceleration on for 18 months. During this time I tried disabling it multiple times (advice from others) only to always re-enable it because I couldn't aim shit with it disabled (I thought I was doing pretty okay with it enabled, and didn't want to restart). Then I got a tablet, but same thing, sucked balls because I was too used to acceleration. I proceeded to return to mouse for around one month before feeling bad for not using the tablet and giving it another try.

It felt really bad starting from scratch and not being able to play stuff you could. But not long after, I surpassed my previous aiming ability and never looked back

After this, I tested with mouse. I disabled mouse acceleration and could jump way better and consistently with mouse than before. Jumps were a hell lot easier, it felt really awesome. Only then I realized how bad acceleration is.. It really made me feel like all this while of playing with mouse acceleration contributed nothing to my aim. (atm I use 900 dpi mouse and around 85% tablet area, can switch between both considerably smoothly)

tl;dr mouse acceleration is bad, my advice is to continue playing on your tablet, you should be able to return to mouse later and aim without problems (acceleration off).

xsrsbsns wrote:

Wow this is exactly what happened to me.

I played osu with mouse acceleration on for 18 months. During this time I tried disabling it multiple times (advice from others) only to always re-enable it because I couldn't aim shit with it disabled (I thought I was doing pretty okay with it enabled, and didn't want to restart). Then I got a tablet, but same thing, sucked balls because I was too used to acceleration. I proceeded to return to mouse for around one month before feeling bad for not using the tablet and giving it another try.

It felt really bad starting from scratch and not being able to play stuff you could. But not long after, I surpassed my previous aiming ability and never looked back

After this, I tested with mouse. I disabled mouse acceleration and could jump way better and consistently with mouse than before. Jumps were a hell lot easier, it felt really awesome. Only then I realized how bad acceleration is.. It really made me feel like all this while of playing with mouse acceleration contributed nothing to my aim. (atm I use 900 dpi mouse and around 85% tablet area, can switch between both considerably smoothly)

tl;dr mouse acceleration is bad, my advice is to continue playing on your tablet, you should be able to return to mouse later and aim without problems (acceleration off).

Thanks for the advice! How do you know the% of the tablet area? Or was that just a guess? mine is like this:

I wonder if thats ok for 800dpi...

xsrsbsns probably guessed unless he did some measuring/math. If you want to use a DPI that is comparable to the sensitivity of your tablet, measure the active area of your tablet using a measuring tape/stick. Then, adjust your mouse DPI until your cursor's travel distance from the left end of your monitor to the right end is equal to your tablet active area length.

Yeah it was only a guess because I can't open the settings window for a screenshot (it's about the same as yours)

Mathsma wrote:

xsrsbsns probably guessed unless he did some measuring/math. If you want to use a DPI that is comparable to the sensitivity of your tablet, measure the active area of your tablet using a measuring tape/stick. Then, adjust your mouse DPI until your cursor's travel distance from the left end of your monitor to the right end is equal to your tablet active area length.

The thing is, your grip can have a massive effect on how you much you move your hand and how sensitive it feels. Unless you're holding the pen right at the tip, it's probably better to choose your mapping by feel and find an area bigger than your DPI. (I've actually measured before, and 450dpi at my resolution would be almost half of the area that I currently use)

YayMii wrote:

The thing is, your grip can have a massive effect on how you much you move your hand and how sensitive it feels. Unless you're holding the pen right at the tip, it's probably better to choose your mapping by feel and find an area bigger than your DPI. (I've actually measured before, and 450dpi at my resolution would be almost half of the area that I currently use)

This is a compromise on what I said previously, but I will agree there is a proportion for what's comfortable. And we wasted time arguing.

I call it "work" - as in the amount of effort expended to move you hand or fingers. So ideally, to get the best feeling, you should find an area and a sensitivity which "work" your hand similar amounts.

Proportionally, my tablet area is 84mm across 1024 pixels, and my mouse DPI is 46mm (550 DPI). If I'm guessing correctly (per 1024 pixels), YayMii's tablet area is like 115mm across and mouse DPI is 57mm across (450 DPI). Which means we actually wasted time arguing and are using similar settings so this thing called "work" is probably the best way to describe it.

^That's pretty much what I meant in my first post (I probably should've made that more clear). When I said "sensitivities" and "making them match", I wasn't talking about setting the DPI at exactly the same measurements on both tablet and mouse. I was talking about finding settings on both peripherals that make them feel roughly the same as each other.