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Touhou PyP IV (Game over - Mafia wins :>)

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fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Something I noticed about fart's targeting is that he seems to always suddenly find someone to focus on, and then after a short exchange, he'd let them off and be like "well okay, your reasoning seems town so it's fiiiiine". Which is normal, but he pretty much did that for everyone he suspected. However, he did mention something that explains his actions pretty well:

fartownik wrote:

I don't like 1on1 discussions like this because they usually turn out being a Town vs Town fights
Still could be possibly scummy, trying to make debates/look like he's scumhunting without looking like he just want to get someone lynched? We'll see.
I've done plenty of reaction tests to establish my reads. If I expected such reaction from the player then I mark him as Town (for now), because it's more likely he's Town than scum by this reaction, and if we can't really base on the lynches/kills this is the way to play the game.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Oh, also, I wanted to ask you what this was about:

fartownik wrote:

And if there's a Doctor - you possibly ruined the game for Town.
The Doctor didn't protect Sakura - Sakura died. The most powerful role in the game died because the Doctor misread her/done something totally random. Congrats.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Doctor in the game would be rather game breaking since Sakura will just keep reviving everyone till D4.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
That's why my sentence said "IF there's a Doctor". Either there's no one or a not very smart one (or scum one, lol).
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi
What if there was a strongman or a SK who decided to target the same person? Do mafia strongman kills count as separate kills from the regular mafia night kill?

If there really is a doc, I don't think they'd be dumb enough to not protect Sakura lol.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Don't wanna be a douche or anything, but Dake - please read the thread asap. We're only waiting for you here.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Ok, I'm done.

Let's take a look at the larger wagons atm.
In D1:

Votecount wrote:

BRBP (5) - Lilac, Jinxy, Raging Bull, Tanzklaue, Kitsunemimi (L-2)
This was before pieguy confirmed BRBP's action. Due to confusion was quite easy to scum lynch him at this rate, smart scum would had finished the day and let the town quite lost, but the fact is that there were at least 2 scum voting there, as BRBP didn't get hammered. +1 Scumpoints to everyone here.

Votecount wrote:

No lynch (6) - Sakura, Kitsunemimi, Rantai, Lilac, Tanzklaue, Raging Bull
Though Kitsunemimi bringed up the NL idea and still doubting if it would be a good idea, scum took advantage from a confirmed town (Sakura) starting the wagon and some other townies, (Rantai) to join here. +1 Scumpoints for Lilac and Kitsunemimi and +2 for Tanz and RB, why? Because they were practically sheeping.

In D2:

Votecount wrote:

Raging Bull (4) - fartownik, Tanzklaue, Royston, Lilac (L-1)
Nice catch for the NL wagon by farto. +1 Townpoints. Royston reasons was quite silly as scum would let a townie hammer and then incriminating him, in case RB is town, but he has a bit of reason when he states:

Royston wrote:

But the fact that RB didn't get quickhammered shows something, at least.

Votecount wrote:

Kanye West (3) - fartownik, Lilac, Tanzklaue (L - 2)
fart and Tanz fishing in inactive pool, really? It's true Kanye's behaviour was like this in DotA, but also was similar in High School (though he posted a bit more) and was town there, so judging by meta is not always the way to go.

It seems that Lilac and Tanz likes wagons, but I'm reading Lilac as town due heavy scumhunting, yes, jumping between people in D1, but with fundaments, contrary to Tanz that always tried to deflect the attention to someone else and jumping around a lot between the large bandwagons, even voted BRBP who was 99% confirmed town in that moment (he's still almost confirmed, that 1%), and voting people due inactivity. So:

Vote: Tanzklaue

If you think RB doesn't want me lynched then vote him, or it's that you don't want him lynched? Adding that Gunsmith doesn't confirm you as town, as scum Gunsmith would still scan for Cop, Vig and PGO.

I'm going more with Tanz now, we can also have Roasted Beef if you want, as he's the next in my list. And Royston in a small amount due sheeping Lilac on unvoting RB, but due the newbie factor I can't get if it's a confused townie or shy scum.

Also you said something about a SK, I don't deny the possibility, as there's the case that Kitsunemimi brings bad luck visiting other people instead getting visited. But I know you won't even like the idea of try to check it as scum would screw the with the possible plans, but these are only ideas of mine, so don't mind too much in this for now (unless we have another death due bad luck).
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
funny how the three guys who suspect me the most are the same three guys from day 1. still don't have really any good reasoning, but I didn't expect much tbh.

BRBP wrote:

Kitsunemimi wrote:

One last thing, I noticed that after the case on BRBP was settled, he almost completely stopped posting. As of this post, he hasn't said anything for nearly 2 days...
I'm less active on weekends. Why didn't you prod me then?
your weeks seem to consist only of weekends then. you had like 5 posts after the issue settled sown. and 4 of them were fluff or otherwise unhelpful.

[qoute="BRBP"]

Tanzklaue wrote:

Royston wrote:

Hah, well some of us are.
slip one

Jinxy wrote:

Royston wrote:

@Jinxy since you're voting me, who do you think the remaining scum are?
Remaining scum, you say? Interesting choice of words there.
You two... Stop.
That's ridiculous.[/quote]
I agree, scumhunting seems pretty ridiculous.

BRBP wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

the point of a slip is that it's unintentional.
I also don't think that it's a strong enough slip to vote, but it still is quite interesting.
No, it's not intresting in any way. You bothering to point something like that out and calling it a slip on the other hand is quite interesting.
Or maybe not, it's your job to lynch townies :/
you get quite aggressive there. where are your reasons for that?

BRBP wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

I'm sorry, it's hot as shit over here and I didn't feel like giving much of a reasoning.
What the fuck?
you as a finn might not understand, but outside of the cold north, you actually have things like 35 °C days in summer with 25 °C nights, humid as fuck aswell. I couldn't be bothered to write a long explanation if it's not incredibly necessary.



BRBP wrote:

I guess you're taking your votes off Dake now? After all your primary reason to vote Kanye was because of his inactivity and lack of content in posts (Tanz), maybe Dake can fix that. Kanye wasn't active on his own game either, makes it easier to believe he really was busy. Let's see what you can come up with~
you seem so confident in me being scum, and your accusations are quite ridiculous tbh. you shouldn't forget that you aren't a confirmed townie, and that you actually need a foundation yourself in order to proof your townieness. passive aggressive accusations won't help you one bit.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
ROUND 2!

DakeDekaane wrote:

In D1:

Votecount wrote:

BRBP (5) - Lilac, Jinxy, Raging Bull, Tanzklaue, Kitsunemimi (L-2)
This was before pieguy confirmed BRBP's action. Due to confusion was quite easy to scum lynch him at this rate, smart scum would had finished the day and let the town quite lost, but the fact is that there were at least 2 scum voting there, as BRBP didn't get hammered. +1 Scumpoints to everyone here.
no scum would be so dumb and reveal 2 of their members. the fact that he didn't got quickhammered says next to nothing about the wagonmembers.
[qoute="DakeDekaane"]

Votecount wrote:

No lynch (6) - Sakura, Kitsunemimi, Rantai, Lilac, Tanzklaue, Raging Bull
Though Kitsunemimi bringed up the NL idea and still doubting if it would be a good idea, scum took advantage from a confirmed town (Sakura) starting the wagon and some other townies, (Rantai) to join here. +1 Scumpoints for Lilac and Kitsunemimi and +2 for Tanz and RB, why? Because they were practically sheeping.[/quote]
it actually says nothing about the scummyness of a person if he votes NL in order to not get lynched themselves. "I will let you guys lynch me so you can read my wagon after my death!" said noone ever. if you're town, you won't let yourself get killed except if it isn't avoidable or at the cost of people you think are town aswell. and as scum... well scum would never want to die. it's actually another nullread reasoning.

DakeDekaane wrote:

In D2:

Votecount wrote:

Raging Bull (4) - fartownik, Tanzklaue, Royston, Lilac (L-1)
Nice catch for the NL wagon by farto. +1 Townpoints. Royston reasons was quite silly as scum would let a townie hammer and then incriminating him, in case RB is town, but he has a bit of reason when he states:

Royston wrote:

But the fact that RB didn't get quickhammered shows something, at least.
again, scum wouldn't show themselves, at least not this early. a quickhammer would only really occur if a) scum gets voted and the player at L-1 votes himself or b) if you are at LYLO or MyLo and scum would instawin. yet another fallacious argument, they add up by now.



DakeDekaane wrote:

If you think RB doesn't want me lynched then vote him, or it's that you don't want him lynched? Adding that Gunsmith doesn't confirm you as town, as scum Gunsmith would still scan for Cop, Vig and PGO.
scum gunsmith is about as likely as scum dayvig. and like ten times more useless.
also, if I were a scum gunsmith, why would I claim something like gunsmith? wouldn't it be smarter to claim something that is harder to control? I also got roleblocked this night, so someone must've thought that I am dangerous to them. hint: it was most likely not a townie.

DakeDekaane wrote:

And Royston in a small amount due sheeping Lilac on unvoting RB, but due the newbie factor I can't get if it's a confused townie or shy scum.
we already established that the newbie factor shouldn't count too heavily. we can't risk getting demolished by a guy who just plays pretend with us.

DakeDekaane wrote:

Also you said something about a SK, I don't deny the possibility, as there's the case that Kitsunemimi brings bad luck visiting other people instead getting visited. But I know you won't even like the idea of try to check it as scum would screw the with the possible plans, but these are only ideas of mine, so don't mind too much in this for now (unless we have another death due bad luck).

kitsune wouldn't have claimed PGO if he were a SK. because the following victims won't be as easily explained with "oh someone seemed to aim at me again".

overall, dake seems to try to analyze, but I am not really convinced with his reasonings. my vote will stay on him for now.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane

Tanzklaue wrote:

ROUND 2!
You won't win this time for sure, town will win.

So you got roleblocked? cool.

You were pretty eager for the scum dayvig possibility even being small, but scum gunsmith is clearly more possible if you ask me and it's a safe claim because maybe some townies think you may be useful to find scum, but I'm not that naive. I prefer voting based on acting regardless of PR, though it's not that easy to fakeclaim in a flavored game, but maybe you got lucky.

And you'll keep your vote on me because I'm voting you or because you don't have other suspect? You should have.
And I'm not underestimating Royston, but I won't label him as sure scum yet, he's null but leaning scum for me, the only ones that I have labeled as scum are you and RB.

Sorry but there won't be quotefest, Tanz's are messed up and I won't fix it in a nice way, also scum nervousness is notorious.

Maybe I'll have to ask for your reads to make things clearer?
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Unvote

Will come back tomorrow.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
pieguyn
deadline extended by 24 hours
current deadline is 8/6 9:00 GMT, 29:00 from now
sorry, meant to announce this earlier. comp ran out of power and due to some things I was afk > <
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy

Royston wrote:

Yeah ok it doesn't show anything. It was 1AM when I posted that sorry
what
ugh are you serious

Yeah I'm not unvoting Royston anytime soon. His reasons for putting Kanye on L-1 are repeatedly lacking as seen from the above.
___________________________________________________

RE: BRBP's, Tanz's and Dake's posts above, I don't see anything clearly scummy or flat out wrong, though Dake's vote analysis for D1 does sound null after Tanz's reply. However Tanz's argument for why he is town is biting at me, because some parts feel flawed to me.

Tanzklaue wrote:

DakeDekaane wrote:

If you think RB doesn't want me lynched then vote him, or it's that you don't want him lynched? Adding that Gunsmith doesn't confirm you as town, as scum Gunsmith would still scan for Cop, Vig and PGO.
scum gunsmith is about as likely as scum dayvig. and like ten times more useless.
also, if I were a scum gunsmith, why would I claim something like gunsmith? wouldn't it be smarter to claim something that is harder to control? I also got roleblocked this night, so someone must've thought that I am dangerous to them. hint: it was most likely not a townie.
I disagree here. Firstly, the Scum Dayvig is unlikely because of how overpowered it can be; it practically gives another free kill for scum, hastening LyLo. On the other hand, as Dake has said, a Scum Gunsmith can still scan for Cops or Vigs. (Not PGO because you're dead anyway)

Wiki wrote:

While a few moderators prefer to defy meta and use Mafia Vigilantes to allow multiple scumkills from a single faction, the vast majority of Vigilantes are Town.
Gunsmiths are usually, but not necessarily, pro-Town.
Secondly, you might claim town gunsmith as scum simply because you decided not to take the risk and fakeclaim something others might really be. I'm not sure what you mean by "control", though. Could you elaborate?
Regardless, I'm pretty sure claiming you got roleblocked last night counts as a lack of control, too, so that point is moot.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

BRBP wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

ROUND 1
You didn't say anything useful/helpful here, all you did was show us that you take mafia games too personally.
let me summarize your last 10 posts or so.

tanz doesn't post anything useful.
tanz is so scummy omg.
tanz votes for too many people. scum plz.
tanz votes longer than 10 seconds for one guy. so obv scum geez.
OMG WHY DON'T WE JUST LYNCH TANZ ALREADY?!?!

in short; if you say I don't say useful stuff, I really want to know how the stuff you said in the last 10 posts (which span over almost a full week) is of any use to town. because quite frankly it isn't.

@jinxy: actually, gunsmith is rather hard to control in this set up, especially as scum. I thought of the stack the deck game, where watcher was a safe claim, but that's not the case here. also the watcher we had is dead.
overall, I agree that a gunsmith claim wouldn't necessarily make me more town on its own.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

DakeDekaane wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

ROUND 2!
You won't win this time for sure, town will win.
what do you even mean with this? that town lost day 1? that I won day 1?

DakeDekaane wrote:

You were pretty eager for the scum dayvig possibility even being small, but scum gunsmith is clearly more possible if you ask me and it's a safe claim
like I already said, agreed up to this point.

DakeDekaane wrote:

because maybe some townies think you may be useful to find scum, but I'm not that naive. I prefer voting based on acting regardless of PR, though it's not that easy to fakeclaim in a flavored game, but maybe you got lucky.
if these townies believe that I could be useful, then they will believe me saying that I got roleblocked aswell and that I am essentially useless because I either get killed or roleblocked again. while voting for behaviour is fine, you actually didn't really pointed out my behaviour all that much. if anything, you basically said "while person x does the same thing, I will go for tanz, because.". you pointed the jumping around out, and said that lilac had foundations in their jumping around, which if you read the last few pages could be viewed differently. the whole NL thing, if you wonder what I mean.
then that I and fart fish in the inactives. you said that you don't think this is a townthing to do. fishing in the inactives and lurkers always has been a big point in townplay, as scum can hide there easily.
oh, and I'm pretty sure you only brought this point up so you can give me more of your scumpoints, which came from basically meaningless arguments in the first place.


DakeDekaane wrote:

And you'll keep your vote on me because I'm voting you or because you don't have other suspect? You should have.
I kept my vote on you since your reasoning didn't change my opinion all that much. I still think that you are scum. I have other suspects, but I won't let you go when you are that scummy.

DakeDekaane wrote:

Sorry but there won't be quotefest, Tanz's are messed up and I won't fix it in a nice way, also scum nervousness is notorious.
one messed up quote (2 if you count my post to BRBP aswell) are hardly convincing for something like "scumnervousness". that's one of the many terms in the mafiajargon that basically mean nothing and are just there to make a point look more valid. things like OMGUS and to some extent Wifom fall under the same category.

DakeDekaane wrote:

Maybe I'll have to ask for your reads to make things clearer?
sure.

you = scum

fart = town for being actively trying to get scum, not overcommiting and over all just playing lik a good townie should

kitsune = town, same as above

lilac = leaning town, a lot of scumhunting, and overall logical contribution. not completely town, for reasons like high aggressiveness, that could be scumaligned (what I mean is jumping around as much as they did, though I generally view it as townaligned actions)

RB = leaning town, his reasonings were alright, and also there seems to be something that connects RB and lilac right now, depending on what that something is, it could swing him to full town (or to full scum, but I think lilac would've already laid down their cards if that was the case)

jinxy = null leaning slightly town, he cleaned his record in my eyes, and he actually asks useful questions instead of basically unfounded accusations.

BRBP = null, he is super scummy, though his role protects him. just like i didn't forget about the possibility of fart being scum in stack the deck, I won't dismiss the possibility here either.

royston = leaning scum, his actions and the following excuses are not convincing to me. especially that he himself hides behind the newbie-argumentmakes me iffy about him.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

BRBP wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

in short; if you say I don't say useful stuff, I really want to know how the stuff you said in the last 10 posts (which span over almost a full week) is of any use to town.
There's something wrong with this logic, don't you think?
on your side, maybe.

BRBP wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

BRBP = null, he is super scummy
Lol'd
of course you would cut out the important part. if it weren't for you being a dayvig, I would label you as 100% scum. but you get there, I will correct my read on you and just say that you lean scum.

BRBP wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

no scum would be so dumb and reveal 2 of their members. the fact that he didn't got quickhammered says next to nothing about the wagonmembers.
But scum can be dumb enough to say something like this and refer to themselves?
(stuff I said about royston)
there is a difference between slipping (unintentional errors) and quickhammer someone at L-2 on day 1. the thing I pointed out probably happened, and it happened often among all kinds of players. the quickhammer at L-2 on day 1 is something only really dumb newbie scum would pull of. like I said, no quickhammer here says nothing about the alignment of anyone.

BRBP wrote:

Also it's funny how you have three scum suspects (BRBP, Dake, Roy). Two of us are voting you and the third just unvoted.

Tanzklaue wrote:

funny how the three guys who suspect me the most are the same three guys from day 1. still don't have really any good reasoning, but I didn't expect much tbh.
I laugh with you if it's okay.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
overall, BRBP, stop it. your behaviour doesn't help you, doesn't help town, and most likely helps scum more than anyone else.

if you have something to say with actual content, something people can work with, that isn't just silly accusations against me (or anyone for that matter), then come again. but the way this goes atm, it starts to get on the same level as the discussion between me and sakura.

also, you only seem to have me as a scumsuspect. care to share your views on the others?
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO

Tanzklaue wrote:

you only seem to have me as a scumsuspect.
Nope

Tanzklaue wrote:

care to share your views on the others?
Nope
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Sorry ive been real busy. Two people left at work so i need to do more work. Ill read what has been going on tomorrow
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi

BRBP wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

care to share your views on the others?
Nope
What? Why?

Also, sorry that I didn't make my second post on my reads, stuff kinda happened yesterday and I kind of lost the motivation to do it, plus it doesn't seem to be all that helpful so I'll abstain from making that post for now.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO

Kitsunemimi wrote:

BRBP wrote:

Nope
What? Why?
Why would I? Please explain.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Ok, no more laziness. The deadline is in 12 hours, we gotta do something.

@mod: votecount please

Vote: RB, reason: PoE
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I'm at this point up for either a dake lynch, BRBP lynch or royston lynch.

since BRBP won't happen, I will discard that option (only in the case of it not happening at all).

so i will keep my vote on dake and wait out how the rest decides.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
As stupid as he may be, why lynch BRBP
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
because at this point he might aswell be legitimate scum.

we have better options though, so it won't happen.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
BRBP acts stupidly arrogant, but it's not in Town interest to kill him now as Dayvig is 90% Town-aligned, and he proved himself being one. Feels like you wanna look as you 'take all the possible scenarios into consideration', but you're actually overdoing it.

Also RB didn't react on my vote anyhow, he went straight to BRBP. RB giving some nice attempt to start a discussion with Tanz and eventually bring him down to the point where he can't deny how stupid lynching BRBP would be. No need to, I've done it for you.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
*sigh*
@Tanz: Why do you consider RB leaning town and what is this connection with Lilac?
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston

fartownik wrote:

@mod: votecount please
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi
Oh my god, screw me this is so hard to make a proper decision.

I'm not voting RB because his posts in general look pretty normal and he sort of explained why he went with No Lynch (doesn't completely convince me but it's good enough imo).
I can't make any conclusions on Dake because he hasn't been around for long enough, which basically leaves me with Royston ._.

Vote: Royston
Reason would be because overall he just seems too scummy to me, as I described in my most recent WoT post. Also, he completely ignored that post :V. I don't know if this is the right choice, and I don't mean to end things early for a new player, but it's all I got so... >_<
Royston, if you have something to say about this, you better say it quickly because I'm going to bed soon.
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston
What can I say indeed? You made a good, well reasoned post. If not for the fact that I know I'm town, I'd agree with you.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull

fartownik wrote:

BRBP acts stupidly arrogant, but it's not in Town interest to kill him now as Dayvig is 90% Town-aligned, and he proved himself being one. Feels like you wanna look as you 'take all the possible scenarios into consideration', but you're actually overdoing it.

Also RB didn't react on my vote anyhow, he went straight to BRBP. RB giving some nice attempt to start a discussion with Tanz and eventually bring him down to the point where he can't deny how stupid lynching BRBP would be. No need to, I've done it for you.

I did asked why you scum read me
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
pieguyn
votecount 2.4:

DakeDekaane (2) - Lilac, Tanzklaue
Tanzklaue (2) - BRBP, DakeDekaane
Royston (2) - Jinxy, Kitsunemimi
Raging Bull (1) - fartownik

deadline extended by 10:45 cause I won't be here at current deadline..
deadline is 19:45 GMT, 13:20 from now
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

DakeDekaane wrote:

*sigh*
@Tanz: Why do you consider RB leaning town and what is this connection with Lilac?

Raging Bull wrote:

I cannot read breadcrumb (more because of my inability to do so),but I assume it's about me since something did happen to me last night.
it was between lilac and rb, you can find the information regarding this from page 44-46.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
and i consider him leaning town since his actions don't make him, to me personally, all that scummy. the stuff he says is valid, and his explanations, while faulty, are good enough at least for me.

I'm waiting for what lilac has to say, though I don't know how much sense a prod does make considering that they have internet problems.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull

fartownik wrote:

Also RB didn't react on my vote anyhow, he went straight to BRBP. RB giving some nice attempt to start a discussion with Tanz and eventually bring him down to the point where he can't deny how stupid lynching BRBP would be. No need to, I've done it for you.
I asked you a question on why you scum read me. And to follow up, I don't understand the bolded part.


I also believe that Lilac is town (assuming where ever the fuck his breadcrumb is). If what his breadcrumb where it is is true, then with his night action, I doubt he would target anyone but scum if he was mafia aligned.

I cannot understand Royston too much, especially with him jumping on my bandwagon and then not even giving a sound reasoning for why you voted for me when questioned. After seeing Tanz play however, I don't think new player card is always valid. Tanz just got the entire mafia in Stack the Deck. What the fuck man.

[url=http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/2474606/]His reasoning here doesn't seem to support anything.
[/url] Quick hammering does not mean the player who hammered is scum. Normally I believe the one who is scum is the second to last person to sneak in so they avoid the hammering and suspicion. He also prefers a mislynch over a no lynch on a day that is horribly bad for town already. Seems like he's willing to put us down farther in the hole.
Also apparently put me on L-1 for pressure on a null read. What? Yet you don't even ask anything from it. At least Lilac and (lesser extend) fart explained and questioned. You just did it and left without any reasoning.

Vote:Royston
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

Raging Bull wrote:

fartownik wrote:

Also RB didn't react on my vote anyhow, he went straight to BRBP. RB giving some nice attempt to start a discussion with Tanz and eventually bring him down to the point where he can't deny how stupid lynching BRBP would be. No need to, I've done it for you.
I asked you a question on why you scum read me. And to follow up, I don't understand the bolded part.
I scumread you because I don't Townread you and by PoE you're the one I think is scum.

You hopped on the nolynch wagon with no reason.
You voted BRBP after he killed NH during the day.

These are just 2 blatant things you wouldn't do as Town. You can all it gut feeling if you want, explaining my detailed train of thoughts wouldn't help here because you'd call me wrong anyways, and others would probably agree.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
No answer? Really?
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane

Tanzklaue wrote:

DakeDekaane wrote:

*sigh*
@Tanz: Why do you consider RB leaning town and what is this connection with Lilac?

Raging Bull wrote:

I cannot read breadcrumb (more because of my inability to do so),but I assume it's about me since something did happen to me last night.
it was between lilac and rb, you can find the information regarding this from page 44-46.
Yes, I get this, but why does this make RB look town?
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
And maybe I've passed this
@RB: is Tanz town?
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
I didn't want to do it since Dake is also voting Tanz and I still have scumread on him, but I guess no one is gonna support me on RB. 50-50 chance we got scum today.

Unvote
Vote: Tanzklaue
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
why thank you fart. may you want to explain why you try to lynch a townread now?

at least you said you read me as town. why would you push for a lynch that should be out of your perspective be a relative safe misslynch?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
ALSO: there are 2 votes on dake. 2 votes on me. you say you have a scumread on dake and a townvote on me.

and you vote me?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
townread*
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi

fartownik wrote:

I didn't want to do it since Dake is also voting Tanz and I still have scumread on him
If this is making you not want to vote Tanz, then why are you doing it anyways? What about Royston, or Dake himself, are you just going to completely ignore them? I thought you thought Tanz was town... afaik this is the last thing you said about him

fartownik wrote:

So you have a better suspect than Kanye, Sakura? Tanz is more likely to be scum with his activity, pretty believable claim, analyzing, quick posts? Really? That makes no bloody sense.
Huhhh....

Oh, Tanz was faster than me.
...So yeah, basically what he said. >_>
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
Vote: fart
fuck dake, this is just obvious at this point.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Because I have a stronger scumread on you. I've never crossed you from my list of potential scum, you were on it with a high priority. Kanye's replacement was unfortunate because there's a lot of lacking factors on which I could base my read on Dake. I can only base on a few posts he made, and by doing that and analyzing Kanye's posts from the game I decided that you would be a better lynch.

Also your death will give Town the biggest pool of information out of all possibilities. Starting on the wagons you went on, ending on the RVS on Kanye in your first posts.

Summing all the pluses - your lynch is the safest we can do.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
summing all the pluses, your lynch is the safest to do.

because you are scum.

it's ridculous, first you say I'm town, then you go and vote me because of lack of information about dake? really?
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Meh, I probably voted you with bad timing.

I've planned to vote you yesterday, but I had RB on the priority first, and no one seems to share my suspicions on him.

Also it doesn't really matter what I said, to be honest. I've done a real lot of reaction tests from which you could judge I perceive plenty of players as Town, while in fact they're on my scumlist. I can't reveal everything right away because it'd ruin my judgment.

Also you're OMGUSing me right now while you thought I'm Town the whole game. Aren't you doing the same thing you're accusing me of? Don't you wanna wait for my explanation?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
no, I'm not doing the same thing. I didn't lie the whole game to everyone about what I read for certain players. I actually have a reason to vote you now, opposed to you, who suddenly makes a 180° turn and reasons it with "reaction testing" (remember sakura? yea didn't help her did it?) and "I read you as scum the whole time".

sorry, but this is really just painful. I mean, I could vote royston if I wanted to escape, or could've voted him earlier, but I didn't, since I believed that the dake wagon still had a chance and now I won't so I can start this wagon here. because this is easy.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
I'm still waiting what Dake says/does. Heh, look I just explained part of my reaction test! Hopefully it helps!
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

BRBP wrote:

fartownik wrote:

Also it doesn't really matter what I said, to be honest. I've done a real lot of reaction tests from which you could judge I perceive plenty of players as Town, while in fact they're on my scumlist. I can't reveal everything right away because it'd ruin my judgment.
Why say this now? Why use something "scummy" like this as a defence? It'd be so much more believable if you just stated it any other time.
Because I got attacked by Tanz and Kitsune immediately?

Also you're 'confirmed' Town, right? Then act like one. Why don't you scumhunt? Why don't you do anything to help Town? Your views are especially valuable since everyone knows they can trust you, why aren't you doing it?
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
dat vote.

Tanzklaue wrote:

I didn't lie the whole game to everyone about what I read for certain players.
p/2466212/

Tanzklaue wrote:

BRBP and Sakura: pretty much confirmed bad townies at this point, still a little bit iffy about BRBP, but we can't get more out of him I think. most likely because there isn't much more to him.
p/2482350/

Tanzklaue wrote:

BRBP = null, he is super scummy, though his role protects him. just like i didn't forget about the possibility of fart being scum in stack the deck, I won't dismiss the possibility here either.
Ok, the difference is that farto fakeclaimed in Stacking the Deck, BRBP's claim is true.

Also you haven't answered this: p/2484911

@fartownik: At the rate before you voted Tanz, Royston was likely to get lynched today, so I thought changing my vote for RB would have the same impact as keeping my vote on Tanz, I'm sure about RB being scum though, as suspicious as Tanz, as he has townread from Tanz for a reason Tanz still hasn't explained nor answered to me.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
I would like to know that reason myself to be honest.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
well, lilac and RB have a connection. they both stated it openly. I read lilac as leaning town, and RB as leaning town aswell, else they wouldn't share night actions with one anotherin the open. of course it could be staged, but I don't think that it is too likely.

also RB acts a whole lot more town than our supposedly confirmed townie.
I don't see the contradiction in what you quoted dake. I said in the first one that I am iffy about BRBP, and in the second I am really iffy about him. I didn't lie about my reads at any point.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
@Tanz: what do you think about RB jumping on the nolynch wagon for no reason (still not explained)?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
it's fishy, yes. I think I was one of the guys who laid a lot of suspicion on him for that. the point still stands, but I rather believe that he just didn't thought it through.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Yeah, and he still didn't explain why he did it, no matter how many times we bringed up this argument.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
well, I believe that it was a silly mistake rather than something superscummy. like you believe that the slips of royston were mistakes aswell.

we all do them sometimes, and the rest of his play seemed to be town enough to me.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Royston at least tried to explain himself when asked. RB avoided the topic at all costs.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Raging Bull wrote:

I voted NL since Tanz said pressuring Lilac won't do anything within that hour before lynch even occurs.
I count that as a try aswell.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
When's the deadline?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
~2 hours from now I think. maybe less.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Why the fuck is no one even talking here. 2 hours 'til the deadline and I'm sure it's Tanz or Dake here.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

fartownik wrote:

Why the fuck is no one even talking here. 2 hours 'til the deadline and I'm sure it's Tanz or Dake here.
+
do you mean we're here or that one of us gets lynched?

because the latter isn't the case at all.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
I think one of you is surely scum, I'm just unsure which one.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
@Mod: requesting a final extension of the deadline until everything is sorted out
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
Hi.

As much as lynching Tanz would give information, my vote is either on Dake or Royston and I'd rather lynch one of them because I'm almost certain they are a pair.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
A pair of mafia, I mean. It's just a theory and I want to see if it's right.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
If that doesn't convince you let me propose this. Let's say Tanz is town.

Dake's lead up to Tanz was possibly a choice to try and off the Gunsmith who could look for guns for the mafia will still hidden under the veil of Tanz being scummy, town would be down a role that could potentially look for mafia and noone would second guess the people on the wagon because the Tanz lynch was too justified. It's unlikely Gunsmith is mafia (assuming that the role claim is true) because the role would only benefit mafia if there are more killing roles or the same number of them not on the mafia's side.

This is why I think the Tanz lynch wagon is a clever ploy.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Well, that's one theory. But there's also the fact that a basically confirmed Town (BRBP) votes Tanz, not Dake. I just don't know who to trust anymore.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
Trust yourself.

I'm going with my gut anyway and I'd sorta prefer it if Tanz was alive. I don't mind if he gets lynched though. I'm just as frustrated as you are right about now.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
pieguyn
votecount 2.5:

Royston (3) - Jinxy, Kitsunemimi, Raging Bul (L - 2)
Tanzklaue (3) - BRBP, DakeDekaane, fartownik (L - 2)
DakeDekaane (1) - Lilac
fartownik (1) - Tanzklaue

deadline extended by 36:15
deadline is 8/8 9:00 GMT, 37:10 from now
sorry for long extension, but for some reasons I probably can't be online at all tomorrow. everything should be back after that
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
I mean, that vote switch to farto by Tanz was absolutely terrible and by an absolute lack of judgement, I wouldn't be surprised if he was mafia.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull

fartownik wrote:

I scumread you because I don't Townread you and by PoE you're the one I think is scum.

You hopped on the nolynch wagon with no reason.
You voted BRBP after he killed NH during the day.

These are just 2 blatant things you wouldn't do as Town. You can all it gut feeling if you want, explaining my detailed train of thoughts wouldn't help here because you'd call me wrong anyways, and others would probably agree.
No, that was even before I so called hopped on no lynch wagon. At that point, can I do any god damn thing? My post -> Day end was approximately less than 1 hour. No one posted after wards. Can I really get 3 people off the NL wagon that fast? Please if you can convince someone less than an hour then explain it.

I voted for BRBP because I asked him a question that I believe was important. He stated he believes Jinxy was suspicious and that it was obvious. There was no indications at all. All he did was shoot someone and leave. That is god damn anti town as fuck. When he finally started answering is when I unvoted. I'm just surprised you avoided the whole discussion and just stated how BRBP is most likely town despite his behavior. T

fartownik wrote:

No answer? Really?
Sleep.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
And before you say


fartownik wrote:

No answer? Really?
Work.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I am fucking sorry, I passed out and wasn't present for what could've been the finale of the day >.<

that vote switch was terrible, I admit that. I was guided by the heat of the moment instead of logical conclusion. I will steer back now to what I believed to be true before that and what I still believe to be true.

Vote: Dake

feel free to ask me questions or whatever you could need from me.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
Calling this now.

I have the intent to hammer Dake or Royston if it comes up to L-1.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Fine, whatever.

Unvote
Vote: Dake
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

Lilac wrote:

Calling this now.

I have the intent to hammer Dake or Royston if it comes up to L-1.
Also how you wanna hammer Dake when you already have a vote on him, lol.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
Derp. I actually completely forgot about that.

Thanks farto. I think you understand my point here though.
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi
Man this is the longest day ever.

... >_>
Gosh I'm not sure what to do now.

The problem is that I haven't seen enough of Dake's posts to really make much of him. But what Lilac said about his actions does seem to make sense. And also, I do agree that Dake kind of turned things on Tanz rather quickly.

Unvote
Vote: DakeDekaaaaane
Didn't have much to base my Royston vote on anyways ._. I just hope you guys are right about this.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Well, that wagon filled up very fast, good luck town.

I should finish reading my books until the hammer comes up.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
Unvote.

I did say that I would hammer. Nothing else you want to say? Like a role claim or argument against the lynch?
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston
vote:Dake

God you'd better not be town. But, hell, at this point I can't let this drag on and risk the lynch on myself.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
If you guys doesn't want to go for RB or Tanz, then I can't do anything else than wait than my lynch would bring something useful for town.

About the claim, if it's helpful, I'm a quiet Commuter.

mukyuu~
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Voting me to save yourself when you only have 2 votes? cool.

We got our 3 scum. Go town, you can win this. Patchouli cheers you~
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston
shit kitsune unvoted me you're right
i still thought i had 3 votes on me

unvote
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
Ugh. That role claim.

Lilac. The most indecisive player to have ever played Mafia.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
@dake: how exactly does the commuter translate from your character patchouli? like, why would she be a commuter?
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
I hide in the library each night, being immune to all night actions.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO

fartownik wrote:

I've planned to vote you (Tanz) yesterday, but I had RB on the priority first, and no one seems to share my suspicions on him.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull

BRBP wrote:

Raging Bull wrote:

I voted for BRBP because I asked him a question that I believe was important. He stated he believes Jinxy was suspicious and that it was obvious.
I don't even have to look back to be able to say you misunderstood it :roll:

Raging Bull wrote:

All he did was shoot someone and leave.
Didn't

Yeah nevermind, I was gonna reply all then I realize you said you only saw who was going to vote you because of that. Fuck you :(
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Yes, exactly.

Also that claim from Dake is a real shitty one. Commuter is a very convenient one if you want to fakeclaim, and he possibly just did.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
^ first part was directed to BRBP.
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy

BRBP wrote:

fartownik wrote:

I've planned to vote you yesterday, but I had RB on the priority first, and no one seems to share my suspicions on him.
So now you decided to go to your third suspect...? Without anything new brought to the Dake's case, you just simply decided to vote with no explanation at all?

fartownik wrote:

Yes, exactly.
I assume you're replying to this part of BRBP's post. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Why do you have no explanation for something like that? Hell, you've been acting more and more scummy since around yesterday. You jumped to voting Tanz, giving an excuse of more reaction test crap when called out contradicting your reads, and then switch over to Dake, outright saying you have no explanation, or I assume, a secret explanation for more "reaction tests". Such secretive shit rarely helps town and is more likely a scum's excuse.
____________________________________

RE: Dake's claim

Well, the flavour certainly fits, since the flavour location of this game is exactly where Patche lives / has her library in, and Patche's general characterization fits an "avoiding" style role. She was used as a Hider in another TH PYP iirc? Nevertheless, it might be a convenient fakeclaim as suggested by fart, though I'm certainly believing it more than fart, for the above reasons.
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi

Royston wrote:

What can I say indeed? You made a good, well reasoned post. If not for the fact that I know I'm town, I'd agree with you.
So you make no active effort to convince me to take my vote off of you, in fact you imply that my vote is agreeable on.

Royston wrote:

vote:Dake

God you'd better not be town. But, hell, at this point I can't let this drag on and risk the lynch on myself.
But the moment you get another vote, you instantly bail out and smack a vote on someone else so they get lynched instead of you?
Also, "God you'd better not be town." sounds to me once again like you know who's town and who's not, but you're pretending like you don't know/trying to make it look like you don't.

Perhaps I should switch my vote back over to you, Royston.
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