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Touhou PyP IV (Game over - Mafia wins :>)

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Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Believe me, if I was scum I wouldn't make it so easy for you guys with something as mundane as inactivity (take that how you like). I'd also like to call out those fishing in the lurker pool, the easiest targets for mafia to distract with (as this happens so damned often with terrible results).

The point of the matter is everyone is quibbling over stuff I either don't care about or don't agree with (ie people's points for X being scummy basically does not convince me either way). If you really want what is going through my head right now;

Raw thoughts, no processing
- I think it's pretty much established that BRBP is town as far as I'm concerned for now.

- I had no idea Sanae could bring the dead to life. Though I guess raising the dead counts as a miracle. I'm more or less satisfied to believe her for now. Everything else was meh, it was far too silly for me to form an opinion (reckless town, reckless mafia?)

- Jinxy is visibly frustrated. Given how relatively weak the actual pressure is (BRBP for idk reason and Fart... and a couple of ums and ahs) I'd say that he just getting annoyed at being falsely accused (well, at least that's how I am). If there was more pressure I'd say it's cracking under pressure but eh. Overall though, weak read at best.

- Kayne? I don't know at this stage.

- Kitsunemimi? Tl;dr for the most part (not in practice, just in thought). 2 strikes from what I could pick out, everything else is null.

- Lilac? Aggressive. Goes either way.

- RB seems passive aggressive (for a lack of better words). A handful of questions, a small number of minor accusations and the times he voted was for; 1. an unconfirmed dayvig shot (that knee jerk) 2. Lurking. Not exactly solid (seems more like a low flyer).

- Royston; Despite the quiet, attempts to deflect pressure onto other quiet people. Nothing much else here.

- Tanz; early posts are meh, I mentioned what I didn't like about another post before. Also fishing in the lurker pool.

- Fart; Massclaim helped him last time he was scum, natural to try suggesting it again? Speculation of course. Otherwise tunneling on Jinxy for whatever reason.

If you want to tl;dr that, nothing jumps out right now. Just a bunch of weak day 1 feelings.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Unvote
Vote: Tanzklaue

JInxy is not confirmed Town yet, but his reaction for my attack was enough for me to call him Town-leaning, which is also enough to take the vote off. Tanz is my next target by PoE. I wouldn't like voting Kanye right now, no matter how suspicious his inactivity is, as Tanz is doing that as well and he might be scum.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Sorry, I might not be able to do much tonight. my internet is extremely slow for some reason.
Royston
187 posts
Joined June 2012
Royston

Royston wrote:

Speaking of which, Lilac, why did you vote for me? Just to put pressure on me, or do you think I'm scum? You noted in a previous post that you thought either BRBP, me, or Rantai was scum. Why vote me and not, say, Rantai?
I may have skimmed over it but I don't think you've responded to this yet Lilac, I'm still curious
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
hm, looking at the people that voted for me...

royston: voted pretty early on for me. not for the best reasoning, but his vote didn't concern me too much (which is why I ignored it completely).

sakura: after making yet another 180 flip flop on her reads, votes me. overall people seemed to first agree with me in the BRBP case, only to then completly turn against me. I am iffy about her, or more about her motivations at this moment.

lilac: flip flopped between royston, kitsune and me in a fairly short time. it seems like he searches for a bandwaggon that he can build up, like roysotn --> inactivity and then questioning kitsune. these quick changes seem odd, just my opinion though.

fart: after tunneling like a madman on jinxy, suddenly decides that his reasoning is okay and votes me, who conveniently has the biggest waggon on him. also his reason for not voting kanye "as he (me) might be scum" is really strange. royston and lilac could be mafia aswell, especially royston, on whom we have no clear call at all.

I think that there is at least one scum at the moment voting for me. I think sakura is pretty clear, so I think amongst royston, lilac and fart, there is one scum. also one of kanye-rantai-royston is scum, i am still sure about that.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
^ pretty poor counter-attack I must say. The reasons for voting you are clear - you will not get anything from directing the suspicions on one of us like this (or trying to direct, because it's poorly done as I said). Even more scummy behavior.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Unless my reads are entirely wrong, I'm fairly certain that fart is Town @Tanz.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I still don't see much from what fart said towards Jinxy. On the other hand Jinxy has been rather overdefensive...
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac

Royston wrote:

Royston wrote:

Speaking of which, Lilac, why did you vote for me? Just to put pressure on me, or do you think I'm scum? You noted in a previous post that you thought either BRBP, me, or Rantai was scum. Why vote me and not, say, Rantai?
I may have skimmed over it but I don't think you've responded to this yet Lilac, I'm still curious
My reason of voting you was clear. There's something I don't like about Rantai but it's late here and posting on a phone is definitely bad.

As much as I dislike farto's attitude in this game, that was indeed a weak counter attack if it was meant to be one at all. I need to sleep now but I'll be awake before the deadline.

@Sakura: What if I said your reads are wrong? What are you going to do? Hit me with a stick like a shrine maiden does? Or abuse the wind? Ooo, scary.
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West
hi, just woke up sry

vote: Tanzklaue I think he's trying to use his random null-read unvote to make himself look town rather than scum by using my inactivity as an excuse to push for my lynch, as my town flip would give him townpoints because everyone thought he was RV'ing his scum buddy. Basically trying to cover up his own mistake. Also he's deflecting to inactives like me, Royston, and Rantai (to a lesser extent). Not quite a scumtell but suspicious regardless. Btw, I think that idea of vocal vs silent mafia isn't always true; you can have three very vocal scum or even three silent scum, again not a good basis for narrowing down scumspects.

@RB I understand your reason for voting me, even though I don't agree with it. I requested a replacement in dota mafia because I was actually busy. Don't need one now. Also voting someone off meta isn't always the best course of action. Remember high school mafia? I can do the same thing again if you want

Also tanz's vote on me was another mis-step.

Tanzklaue wrote:

that said, I really want to know what kanye's take on the situation is.

Vote: Kanye
I dunno about anyone else but this screamed "hey, kanye's still afk, let's try to divert town's attention away from me". There really was no reason for him to vote me, as I was forced to respond to RB's vote anyway.

I thought Jinxy was scum until the back-and-forth between him and farto. Of course, that could easily be set up between them and no one would be the wiser. Tanz is still the better vote.

BRBP is conf town unless there's some kind of daykill SK role. Is that possible? I know it's possible in IRC mafia.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

fartownik wrote:

^ pretty poor counter-attack I must say. The reasons for voting you are clear - you will not get anything from directing the suspicions on one of us like this (or trying to direct, because it's poorly done as I said). Even more scummy behavior.
I just presented my opinions about the situation. I know what i am, so I will look out for people that go after me, since there is always the possibility of scum trying to get an easy lynch.

sakura actually just doesn't really make sense to me, but she luckily is almost confirmed as town, lilac is actually scumhunting. royston is new, and I can understand his reasoning for voting on me.

you on the other hand just seem kinda random. do you have any reasons to vote for me aside from my overpressuring of BRBP?
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy

Sakura wrote:

I still don't see much from what fart said towards Jinxy. On the other hand Jinxy has been rather overdefensive...
Precisely that, though I wouldn't call that overdefensive. I argued back with massive annoyance precisely because I felt fart was trying to pin untrue stuff on me.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I'm psure that kanye is scum, he says that my reasoning of inactivity seems weird, but then RB's reasoning of inactivity is "understandable".

I also already said, that I have no deeper meaning in my RV. also, why should a townflip help me? people won't think "he voted him because scumbuddycover up", but much rather "he pushed further onto kanye, he has to be scum". I also voted on you so you finally come around, more pressure = more possible info from slips. I also honestly got scummy vibes from you, as your inactivity was just unnatural.

my counterattacks are fairly weak, yes, because there isn't any of the guys I really honestly believe are scum on my waggon. it's more of a last resort before claiming, since I don't want my role to be publicly known if I can.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
@Tanz: Because you're deflecting.

Also i think you're at L-2 atm (by my count should be 5 votes on you), if you're town then you should try to claim and give us your reads before you are lynched, this normally only happens with an intent to hammer, but considering in here you're lynched at deadline i'm just warning you about the L-2.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

Jinxy wrote:

Sakura wrote:

I still don't see much from what fart said towards Jinxy. On the other hand Jinxy has been rather overdefensive...
Precisely that, though I wouldn't call that overdefensive. I argued back with massive annoyance precisely because I felt fart was trying to pin untrue stuff on me.
What's 'untrue' there? I just perceive the game this way. The scum is usually not the obvious target and you have to look uniquely at the situation, though I admit it turned out good because your reaction convinced me town-leaning.
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West

Tanzklaue wrote:

I'm psure that kanye is scum, he says that my reasoning of inactivity seems weird, but then RB's reasoning of inactivity is "understandable".

I also already said, that I have no deeper meaning in my RV. also, why should a townflip help me? people won't think "he voted him because scumbuddycover up", but much rather "he pushed further onto kanye, he has to be scum". I also voted on you so you finally come around, more pressure = more possible info from slips. I also honestly got scummy vibes from you, as your inactivity was just unnatural.

my counterattacks are fairly weak, yes, because there isn't any of the guys I really honestly believe are scum on my waggon. it's more of a last resort before claiming, since I don't want my role to be publicly known if I can.
RB voted me on meta and inactivity, you voted me on inactivity (and deflection). different cases entirely.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

@Tanz: Because you're deflecting.

Also i think you're at L-2 atm (by my count should be 5 votes on you), if you're town then you should try to claim and give us your reads before you are lynched, this normally only happens with an intent to hammer, but considering in here you're lynched at deadline i'm just warning you about the L-2.
I am aware of that.

I already gave my reads, they didn't change too much, except fart is a little more leaning scum now.

I am Nazrin, mouse yokai. I have some weird mice that like to find guns. so you can call me a gunsmith of sorts.

but I don't even know if gun flavour means mafia/cop (like it should) or if I can just find gun flavour on a potential nitori and maybe yukari (since she has connections to the world outside of gensokyo). pieguy gave me rather confusing answers to that when i asked him. I am not sure as to how much i can say about my questions and his answers.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Kanye West wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

I'm psure that kanye is scum, he says that my reasoning of inactivity seems weird, but then RB's reasoning of inactivity is "understandable".

I also already said, that I have no deeper meaning in my RV. also, why should a townflip help me? people won't think "he voted him because scumbuddycover up", but much rather "he pushed further onto kanye, he has to be scum". I also voted on you so you finally come around, more pressure = more possible info from slips. I also honestly got scummy vibes from you, as your inactivity was just unnatural.

my counterattacks are fairly weak, yes, because there isn't any of the guys I really honestly believe are scum on my waggon. it's more of a last resort before claiming, since I don't want my role to be publicly known if I can.
RB voted me on meta and inactivity, you voted me on inactivity (and deflection). different cases entirely.
not really. meta voting is something rather meh, and you just accuse me of deflection. so both reasons are pretty shallow, and what is left over is inactivity for both of us.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I also got the confirmation just now that I can work like a normal gunsmith.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Yeah, you're probably not a flavor Gunsmith since that would be underpowered (a lot). I guess it fits, but the role is still not necessarily town-aligned.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I am a flavour gunsmith. i discussed it with pieguy and we came to the conclusion that nobody in gensokyo makes sense. it's to be assumed that I find guns when scanning mafia or roles like cop, vig etc.

a mafia gunsmith would be really underpowered though, I wouldn't have been able to find the flavour on BRBP (asked pieguy about it, prolly because he mastersparks instead of using a gun), so the only thing I would be able to find is cop or nightvig with fairly low successrates.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

Tanzklaue wrote:

I am a flavour gunsmith. i discussed it with pieguy and we came to the conclusion that nobody in gensokyo makes sense. it's to be assumed that I find guns when scanning mafia or roles like cop, vig etc.
Yeah, so you're an Alignment Gunsmith, not Flavor Gunsmith. If you were a Flavor one you'd be scanning the flavor (characters) and not the actual roles.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
no, I find guns when scanning mafia, cops, vigs etc.

they carry the flavour "gun" with them. it says something about their flavour, but not necessarily about their alignment.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
also, there is no such thing as an alignment gunsmith. a gunsmith is basically a specific flavour cop.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
So you get an information what weapon is the character wielding?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
no. it says "x has a gun/has no gun". I would assume.

I think there is a missunderstanding. I scan them for the flavour "gun", from which i can deduct the role behind it (mafia (except mafiadoctors), cop etc.)
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy
Ok what. This is really confusing me. No body in Gensokyo uses a gun, obviously, so your role would probably be a Role Gunsmith, which finds roles that usually use guns. But you wouldn't have seen BRBP the Dayvig? That makes no god damn sense, and an Alignment Gunsmith is literally just a Cop, isn't it?

The problem with Gunsmith is that there's no master list of what triggers it, and when you add in the fact that it doesn't even fit the flavour, and... ?????
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I literally asked pieguy the same questions. he maybe should've made me just a straight up flavour cop or role cop.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
so to clarify:

I investigate roles, to find out if they have a gun flavour. so basically a normal gunsmith.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

Tanzklaue wrote:

I also got the confirmation just now that I can work like a normal gunsmith.
So you say pieguy is online right now?

@mod: votecount please
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
he answered my pm half an hour ago,dunno if he is still there.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
I thought Nitori uses water guns at some point. I thought Reisen uses her fingers as 'guns'?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
like I said, for some reason, mafia aligned people here have guns aswell (except doc ofc), and cop and vig also have them. or should. BRBP wouldn't have had them, that's at least what pieguy said to me.

I also could have missunderstood what he said, and i would've been able to find the gun flavour on BRBP and I jsut read his answer wrong (or he my question).
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
I don't really buy it. You saying that you asked pieguy about it doesn't mean you actually did it. And if you didn't do it it might be as well a fakeclaim for a leaning-Town role.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Not believing that claim yet, it makes no sense at all.

Also apparently you know there's a doc in the mafia?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Not believing that claim yet, it makes no sense at all.

Also apparently you know there's a doc in the mafia?
I never said that. but a mafia doc would give me a "x has a gun" result. just wanted you to keep that in mind.

if you don't believe my claim, then please at least lynch kanye day 2. I am 100% certain that he is scum by now.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Tanzklaue wrote:

like I said, for some reason, mafia aligned people here have guns aswell (except doc ofc), and cop and vig also have them. or should. BRBP wouldn't have had them, that's at least what pieguy said to me.

I also could have missunderstood what he said, and i would've been able to find the gun flavour on BRBP and I jsut read his answer wrong (or he my question).
This implies a mafia doc existing yes, and it also implies you have knowledge of it.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Also your statement implies that a mafia doc wouldnt have a gun, yet you said it would in the post right after i called you out for the mafia doc statement.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Lol'd.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
it doesn't?

it says so in the wiki, and I thought I would bring it up, just as clarification. because there could be the case of a mafia doc, I wouldn't find guns, and would probably still confirm the person as most likly town.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Also your statement implies that a mafia doc wouldnt have a gun, yet you said it would in the post right after i called you out for the mafia doc statement.
that was a crucial typo. it should say "wouldn't".

go to the wiki if you don't believe me. it says it right there.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Why would you specifically go look into the wiki about the existance of a mafia doc?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I looked up how exactly the gunsmith works. I only played three games until now.
there I read that doctors don't have guns. even mafia ones.

I am really tired of you 2. I am certain that you are town, but you both do a weird townjiob to say the least.

there you want to be nice and clarify to the best of your ability, and then you get scumcred for being nice.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
If you already went and checked that why didn't you check on the possibility of a mafia dayvig? didn't you have suspicions on BRBP before?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I looked that up aswell, yes. there are few of them, but the chance of a dayvig being mafia is fairly low.

the situation back then was different. in my eyes, BRBP being a mafia dayvig was still higher than jinxy being scum, and he was the only other major scumsuspect at this point of time.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Fine for me.

Unvote
Vote: Kanye
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Why back then were BRBP's chances of being a mafia dayvig higher than now?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Why do you think he cannot be a major scumspect right now?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Why do you think he cannot be a major scumspect right now?
because his actions verified him as town. the chance of him being a mafia aligned dayvig were fairly low to begin with. he is as scummy as you are.

he took the questions face on, and actually played like a normal townie after the shot on NH.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Hmm ok then
Vote: Rantai
Your turn.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Just one last question for Tanz:

So you agree me and BRBP are the scummier people in here, you aren't voting either because we're technically confirmed town, yet you say that there's a possibility of a dayvig, which technically that doesn't make it confirmed town.

What would be the chances of a scum reviver as opposted to scum dayvig?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Just one last question for Tanz:

So you agree me and BRBP are the scummier people in here, you aren't voting either because we're technically confirmed town, yet you say that there's a possibility of a dayvig, which technically that doesn't make it confirmed town.

What would be the chances of a scum reviver as opposted to scum dayvig?
scum reviver = almost 0. it's a fairly dumb role, because you couldn't revive anyone up until lylo, where it would be an automatic win.

mafia dayvig is a possibility, but BRBP doesn't give me any reason anymore to believe that.

you are bascially confirmed because your role on mafiaside would make no sense at all. BRBP is basically confirmed because mafia aligned dayvigs are rare, and his actions hint at him being town.
though BRBP has still swing in him (he could turn out to be mafia after all), you most certainly are town.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
So you say that you are randomly believing my claim, ergo I should believe yours as well?

You say there can be mafia dayvig, does his actions excuse him (including the shot itself) from being scum? if so which?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

So you say that you are randomly believing my claim, ergo I should believe yours as well?

You say there can be mafia dayvig, does his actions excuse him (including the shot itself) from being scum? if so which?
I believe your claim because there is no real reason not to. your actions might be not the most protown, but I think you do them in pro-town interests.

BRBp did the most logical and town-ish thing he could do after the shot. you did that aswell. attacking me and putting pressure on me for my behaviour was probably the most town thing he could've done at that moment. (he also didn't continue with weird flip floppy play like you did :P)
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
So you think him shooting NH was town motivated?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
what do you think?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Tanzklaue wrote:

what do you think?
I asked first, please do not reply to a question with another question.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
technically you also said "only one last question" and then asked 4.

I can imagine him having town motivations and just not thinking it through. there is also the possibility of him shooting before getting lynched and then avoiding a lynch. but I don't think that is the case.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
What motivation could he possibly had about shooting first and asking question later instead of saying he was dayvig and would shoot him if he didn't claim?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
what motivations could you have had for acting overly scummy, when the usefulness of it was questionable?

what motivations could I have had for keeping the pressure on BRBP for so long?

sometimes people make mistakes. I don't overanalyze every little detail, because at one point, you will find yourself not being able to really make a point anymore and you end up flip flopping between everyone who looked at you funny. I think it's more useful to try to find solid reads and suspicions as opposed to "every action could have had scumintent!".
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I already mentioned why I did it, re-read the thread and tell me if you can find it.

Good question on the second one, you kept pressure on him for fairly long then suddenly he becomes scummier and closer to lynch and you suddenly town read him, even after admitting there could be scum dayvig.

Vote: Tanzklaue

I can take care of Rantai tomorrow, this guy needs rope today.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Dem empty threats.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
In less subtle words, come at me now. We'll see how good you are.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
you're funny sakura.

you know that you contradict yourself? BRBP did, after his shooting, look less scummier than he did before. he was close to a lynch, and people started questioning me. it was established that BRBP read town for most people, they started pressuring me. I started explaining myself, and answered the questions that were asked to me as good as I could.

then I claimed, I already established before that that I don't have much reason to believe that BRBP is scum. then you come around, and say me townreading him (which is btw. the most sane thing for anyone to do) means that I am scum. you revote me, after unvoting me at first. you asked questions which are not really answerable in a town way. they even seem deliberatly asked in this fashion to make me answer in a way that would contradict myself.

you also seemed to be awfully concerned about my ability and who i could find and who I couldn't find.
afraid perhaps that i would find a few guns if I scanned you? would be inconvenient for a so called reviver to carry around weapons of murder I think.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
you also didn't answered the questions I asked. like you didn't answer the questions earlier.

why should you be afraid of a role that could basically 99% confirm you if you didn't lie?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
You contradicting yourself is your own fault, not mine. I'm not afraid of your role, what makes you think i am?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
that you suddenly revote me, after first saying that my case is closed.

I didn't contradict myself. I already established how I first kept my vot on BRBP since he was my biggest lead, and then unvoted him in the aftermath, as I believed that he most likely isn't scum after that.
how would you answer the question "how does him shooting without saying anything before make him look not scummy?" in a way that wouldn't make you look scummy? its the same question as "why would you, sakura, grab all the attention if you weren't scum?". any answer that isn't "you're right, he/she is scum" would paint the asked one as scum.

your whole gameplan in this game was weird. even after you admitted that your tactic of acting scummy was dumb, you continued looking scummy, continued flip flopping between multiple people. you also didn't really hunt for scum, as your vote on me came out of the blue (out of yet another flip flop), and you have gone along with the reasoning of others. you seem to go for whoever seems like he would make a good target. your vote on rantai again came without reason, and you still reading jinxy as scum while most of us switched away from him is just odd.

I don't think any longer that any town aligned person would play like this. I'm sorry kanye, but I think your case has to wait.

Vote: Sakura
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
So because im pressuring you i'm scum? nice logic.
And looks like you're able to back down on your apparently conf.town read on me just because i'm pressuring you and asking you questions?

@Rantai: I specified the reasons i suspect you in my reads list, go and read.

So i'm still acting scummy then?

Why do you try to attack me while also mudsligning at a lurker to whom you deflected attention before?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
because I think you're scum. and i believe kanye is scum aswell.

sakura, answer the questions I gave you.

and i have a nw one. might be familiar to you.

why did you unvote BRBP directly after his shot, when I gave the possibility of him being a mafia aligned dayvig? why do you back down from your scumsuspect directly after he did the most scummy thing possible?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
it's also not the pressure in itself. it is the fact that you first took of the pressure from me, then asked iffy questions, and then voted me again. the questions couldn't get anything other but at least slight contradictions out of anyone because the way you asked them didn't allow for it. bsically, if you were this sure that I am scum, then why did you unvote in the first place?
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Oh that was actually serious.

Well I outright giggled from the "scumslip" comment, I assume that's not a strong factor.

Unfortunately for you, my personality (need a better word but I'll stick to that) won't change on a whim, not going to pull out BS analysis just to appease the crowd.

If I actually see something that doesn't seem right, I'll probe it (then again you've seen my take on what I see in the thread already).
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Tanzklaue wrote:

why did you unvote BRBP directly after his shot, when I gave the possibility of him being a mafia aligned dayvig? why do you back down from your scumsuspect directly after he did the most scummy thing possible?
At the time I thought he might've been a town dayvig, and you wanting to paint him as scum dayvig was you being scummy trying to go for a mislynch, unlike you, I didn't check the possibility of a mafia dayvig.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Children, stop fighting please. Make up with each other because you're (most likely) both Town voting yourselves. If you think Kanye is scum - vote him, because I think so too and we will not lose time for pointless argues.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
This isn't fighting this is me questioning my scumread on his actions to see whether it strengthes or weakens my scumread on him, which as you have seen already it started going down then it went back up.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

why did you unvote BRBP directly after his shot, when I gave the possibility of him being a mafia aligned dayvig? why do you back down from your scumsuspect directly after he did the most scummy thing possible?
At the time I thought he might've been a town dayvig, and you wanting to paint him as scum dayvig was you being scummy trying to go for a mislynch, unlike you, I didn't check the possibility of a mafia dayvig.
and after I brought up the possibility of him being a mafia dayvig, you didn't reconsider your read on him. but I am scum for actually considering the possibility and keeping my pressure on him for that possibility?

I mean, if you now come around and say that he lookd the most scummy after he shot, then you must have considered it. but you still decided to go after me. your argument would work if you hadn't basically admitted that you considered the possibility of him being a mafia dayvig.

also, you still need to answer the question why you believe that BRBP is less scummy than me, and was less scummy than me, when he basically did the most scum thing possible. why do you read me as scum over him?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I never said I considered the possibility of mafia dayvig, what makes you think I did?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I read you as scum because you attempted to place blame on BRBP being possible mafia dayvig, without supporting it that it could actually exist, you're general IIoA throughout the game, deflecting attention when you're in trouble, and then contradicting yourself when being questioned.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
that you even asked the questions did. why would it even be of interest what i think about the possibility of a mafia dayvig if you don't believe that there is one?

only other motivation would be that you - like I said - deliberatly tried to scumpaint me again.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
A proper town defense would be to refute my points.

A proper scum defense would be to attack their attacker... like you're doing now.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I didn't contradict myself.

I actually have support for the possibility of mafia dayvigs (mafiascumwiki at least says that they aren't unheard of).

I tried to analyse, and for the most part, i couldn't get much out of it. I followed the most reasonable view, which was in the case of BRBP lilac. after that, I did have my own leads.

I tried to defend myself when i was under heavy pressure, like every person would. of course I would name the people I see as scummy when everyone tries to kill me. who wouldn't? there is no townmotivation at all in not defending yourself.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Yeah, but your defense ended up in you attacking me when I started to consider you as scum again, why?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
what points? you have no serious point. your point flip flops more than a fish that was pulled to land a few moments ago.

your points apply to a lot of people here, basically anyone who didn't directly unvote BRBP and stood true to the unvote.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Yeah, but your defense ended up in you attacking me when I started to consider you as scum again, why?
because your questioning seemed off to me, and then your revote on me. in my eyyes, you wouldn't have done it if you had true townintentions behind it.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Unvote
Vote: Tanzklaue
^
that's scummy?

I asked you a question, you didn't give an answer that seemed coming from pro-town, so I voted you again.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
you asked a question you knew I couldn't answer in a way that would've read town all over it.

but this actually doesn't lead anywhere.

Vote: Kanye
if I should survive, i could scan you. but I don't know if that would be a waste of a scan (since you probably wouldn't read me town anyway even if I confirmed you, also it's likely that you will die if you're town).
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Why do you think I knew you couldn't answer?

What makes you think i'd ask you a question you couldn't answer?

If i wanted to trap you I would ask something like "If you're town why are you voting town?" or something like that.

I got a null read on Kanye, so i'm not sheeping you on that.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
I don't even know why you did 90% of the actions you did in this thread. I have no idea why you would try to get me to give you a reason to vote me. why would you even question me if you already unvoted me? if you don't trust me enough in the first place, don't unvote.

basically, if this continues, I will die anyway. you will die this night if you're town, and nobody gets much scum info out of it. I can't do that much more to defend myself, i already claimed, and it's up to you guys if you believe it or not.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
Congrats, you spammed 5 sites with this internal discussion. Tanz-Sakura scumteam ftw.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
pieguyn
Votecount 1.7:

Tanzklaue (4) - Royston, Lilac, Kanye West, Sakura
Kanye West (3) - Raging Bull, fartownik, Tanzklaue
Jinxy (1) - BRBP
fartownik (1) - Jinxy

deadline is in 13:49
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
So can I get a reason why you guys are voting Kanye other than "lurking"?
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West
Because farto is trying to save tanz maybe? I still think the whole back and forth between jinxy and him was planned

#callingit
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
why should he save me?

I vote kanye because I think he is scum. I gave my reason already.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

Kanye West wrote:

Because farto is trying to save tanz maybe? I still think the whole back and forth between jinxy and him was planned

#callingit
#lazyscum

@Sakura: any reason NOT to vote Kanye (besides your so called suspicion towards Tanz)?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I'd think you'd be voting Kanye because he's sucm not because he's lurking.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
voting for kanye results in pressure for him.

pressure for him results in new information.

you had no problem at all to vote me, if you actually want to get any information, then you shouldn't keep your vote on me. sitting out the deadline doesn't help town at all, and there is nor reason why you shouldn't be able to vote me again if nothing comes up.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
So ok summarzing your post:

You're voting kanye because he's lurking and you want to pressure him but you don't think he's scum.
At this point advertizing more votes on him will lead to a lynch on someone you don't think it's scum.

You can get information out of people without voting them.

fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik

Sakura wrote:

I'd think you'd be voting Kanye because he's sucm not because he's lurking.
But this is actually his meta. He plays like this as scum, with a notice that he's probably lazy right now and posts even more half-assed stuff.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
He replaced out of his game in DotA, so that's unuseful as a meta.

Do you have town meta from Kanye? Any meta accusation without the contrast is biased meta.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

So ok summarzing your post:

You're voting kanye because he's lurking and you want to pressure him but you don't think he's scum.
At this point advertizing more votes on him will lead to a lynch on someone you don't think it's scum.

You can get information out of people without voting them.

are you...

I think he is scum. please, you make yourself look really ridiculous.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I did ask you if you were voting him because he was lurking or because he was scum, and that was your reply dont blame me for misrepresenting what you meant when you didn't even answer my question correctly.
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