Oh... yeah, and here comes my late follow-up post.

So far, I'm getting the feeling that Jinxy is town.
Most of what he said so far was against Sakura, but that was pretty natural since everyone was suspecting her. The thing about Jinxy is that he seems to provide some decent reasoning, particularly about Sakura's question avoiding. He hasn't posted all *that* much, but from what I'm seeing from his ISO, his posts look incredibly normal to me. It may seem like he was trying a bit too hard to extract information from Sakura, but he instantly unvoted once her role was revealed.
It is true that he hasn't really posted anything to defend himself though. That's kinda odd, but I don't know if we can really call him scummy for that. Frankly, I was never too sure why he got voted on in the first place. Fart just seems really focused on him though...

Uh, onto other people I guess.
Sakura and fart are both good, but I found it hard to read into fart's posts.

I also get the feeling that Lilac is town, because his posts are high quality, he makes good points and posts seem quite town-oriented.

RB's posts don't make him look scummy, but I feel like they're overwhelmingly lacking in content.

Rantai and Royston really need to post more. Half of Rantai's posts were before the game started... Royston's posts don't seem to be all that useful, but I get the feeling that he's just new townie (this is actually my second game of mafia though... ;3;). If Tanz is scum though, then it's unlikely that Royston is also scum because of the focus Tanz puts on him. I could also be wrong, and it might be the other way around.

Kanye, due to his overall lack of posts and generally ambiguous behaviour, as well as the point I mentioned above with my Tanz post, is leading me to believe that he is mafia too. The problem here is that it looks like he's too busy to post, and he might be using the game he's running concurrently as an excuse for not posting but.... ehhh... maybe he really is busyyyy you don't really know.
_____________________

I'm still feeling that Tanz is more scummy.... I realize that there almost certainly is scum within that afk lurk group, but you're one who I can sort of actually put my finger on... Like, look, right now, I'm suspicious of you, so posting a readlist isn't going to do much... Why don't you explain the things that I mentioned in my last post...?

I am also in denial of the entire mafia consisting of only lurkers.

Unvote

Came back from school, sleepy, will read and post thoroughly later k thx

I want to bring up that Marisa might still be the old role she was in Touhou PyP I and be a lover with mafia. That's really wishful thinking though but I do want to say. @BRBP: Are you a lover role too?

Okay, okay. Deep breath. Unvote.

Vote: Kitsunemimi.

Here's why. This was a quote that Hina/Mimi said about Tanz.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

But now he insists on keeping his vote on BRBP, who is essentially confirmed (bad) town. He doesn't even explicitly deny it himself. He doesn't even unvote like I did. I'm pretty sure we all know BRBP is town, or at least there's very good evidence of it, but you're keeping your vote on him? Seems kind of contradictory.

Sure, you might have said that. However, you also voted for BRBP a couple of posts after he claimed to shoot. Do you know how many posts? You voted for him 25 posts after he shot NoHitter. That, according to this forum was almost two hours after the shot. Here are the reasons why you did that previously but this is a summary. You agreed with Tanz to lynch a dayvig who just shot and now in the matter of 12 hours, you've done a complete 180 on Tanz's comment and Tanz himself. Read below.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

I still think it's more likely for BRBP being a mafia aligned dayvig than for jinxy to be scum. BRBP's actions just scream of being scummy, and with this kind of play, he won't help us all that much either.

^ this exactly.


BRBP's recent posts are just way too stupidly scummy for him to somehow be pro-town dayvig. I'm calling bullshit.

I am now holding you accountable for this comment. You're calling 'bullshit' on a possible modkillable offense of a fake dayvig. Why didn't you just wait for pieguy to confirm instead of using Tanz's comment? Here is the complete icing on the cake.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

I prefer to lynch a bad vanilla townie over possible good townies.

This. I'd still rather not have our town completely shot off to bits by this BRBP.

Tanz was really bad to have said that in the first place. That is definitely the worst thing to say and you agreed to him. Not only that, earlier you denied BRBP of being a vig at the beginning of that whole post and just almost near the end of the same post, you are in fear of him shooting town to bits? Your reason to vote for BRBP earlier was that you thought he was scum...and at the end of that reasoning...you softly admitted he was a dayvig? And still voted for him? This is something I can not understand and should have found out sooner.

Unless of course, you still agree with Tanz about a mafia dayvig like you did before. Also, you're next Tanz for propagating this and Mimi following for god knows what reason.

As Royston said, do not lynch bad town, lynch mafia. Unless, you know, you completely forgot about your wincon or your wincon is to lynch town. Then hurrrr.

Lilac wrote:

However, you also voted for BRBP a couple of posts after he claimed to shoot. Do you know how many posts? You voted for him 25 posts after he shot NoHitter. That, according to this forum was almost two hours after the shot.

I'm UTC-4, meaning that it was just before 11 AM for me. I had just gotten to work, and had some things to work on before I had the chance to read all of the stuff that went on in the thread and take it all in. That included pretty much everything since things started turning bad for BRBP. I simply had to make that post since I was utterly convinced that he was scum.

Lilac wrote:

Kitsunemimi wrote:

BRBP's recent posts are just way too stupidly scummy for him to somehow be pro-town dayvig. I'm calling bullshit.

I am now holding you accountable for this comment. You're calling 'bullshit' on a possible modkillable offense of a fake dayvig. Why didn't you just wait for pieguy to confirm instead of using Tanz's comment?

Again, I didn't feel like waiting. I couldn't make a single post in between the time I had posted and when shit started going down. After BRBP made his response, I was tempted again to post more, but that time I withheld because it started to seem a bit true, and chose to wait for confirmation.

Lilac wrote:

Kitsunemimi wrote:

This. I'd still rather not have our town completely shot off to bits by this BRBP.

Not only that, earlier you denied BRBP of being a vig at the beginning of that whole post and just almost near the end of the same post, you are in fear of him shooting town to bits? Your reason to vote for BRBP earlier was that you thought he was scum...and at the end of that reasoning...you softly admitted he was a dayvig? And still voted for him? This is something I can not understand and should have found out sooner.

First of all, that part of my post was for if I was completely wrong and BRBP was actually townie dayvig.
Second of all, I had actually failed at reading earlier, and I missed that BRBP said he was only one-shot. This probably ruined it for me. For some reason, I decided to ignore the fact that Tanz had said "vanilla townie", because it wasn't the focus of my post. Afterwards, when I had realized my mistake and when we got confirmation from pieguy, I felt that the BRBP issue had been dismissed, so I didn't bother clarifying.
At that point, since I had realized that he doesn't have his dayvig ability anymore, I took my vote off of him because there isn't the risk of him shooting off another innocent.
But during the time of my original post, I hadn't known that, so I was under the impression that he could continue to screw us up even more. I guess I should've read more carefully.

By the way, it's possible to be 'convinced that someone is scum', but still have doubts. I could hardly believe what had even happened, so I just tried to make the best of it, and include my thoughts on other possible situations. Had there been proper clarification, I would've immediately taken my vote off, which is what I had done after pieguy's confirmation.

Lilac wrote:

You agreed with Tanz to lynch a dayvig who just shot and now in the matter of 12 hours, you've done a complete 180 on Tanz's comment and Tanz himself.

You seem to ignore the fact that it was only after pieguy's confirmation that I could believe the things that BRBP said, and that was when I made my 180. For my original post, I hadn't made a proper analysis of Tanz beforehand, so I didn't have any idea of whether or not he was really scummy, but the ideas that he expressed at the time were similar to mines which is why I had agreed to some of the things he said. It was only after I took a look at him that I realized that his posts seemed odd. I would never just contradict myself like that without a reason/cause (that being the confirmation of BRBP's innocence)

Lilac wrote:

As Royston said, do not lynch bad town, lynch mafia.

And as such, I took my vote off of BRBP :I

If you just want me to admit it, then I will, I was completely wrong about that post I had made, and you should take into consideration how I might've felt about the things that BRBP said at the time. And as much as I'd like to stay around and tell you exactly what I was thinking (tbh I'm not too sure about it myself), I really have to go to bed now, otherwise tomorrow morning would be an utter mess for me...

Well this game sure changes a lot. From Sakura - > Jinxy - > BRBP - > Tanz. Finally an interesting game I suppose.

Has there really ever been an instance of mafia dayvig? I'm not sure. I don't really know pieguy's flavor since I was only in his first Touhou PyP.


I don't know much about current people right now. For now

Vote:Kanye

Played more games than Royston. Exactly the same behavior as scum in DotA. Moderates his own game, but no time to post here. Suspicious imo.

I'll also do a bit more reading.

Unvote. I'm satisfied (about 55%) with that response. I have a feeling that BRBP has something more to his role though, it's just a meta feeling with Marisa Kirasame.

Vote: Tanz. Similar reason as to why I hurtled on Hina/Mimi. I'll build a further case as I read on but I think I used quite a bit of my brainpower already, it's bad because I know there's something wrong with my brain and that ain't really good for my body or my mental state.

While we're here, I also actually left a breadcrumb as to what my role is too. Haha, it's nothing like NoHitter's Tanooki though, it requires a thought process and deduction as opposed to find a word like that.

Votecount 1.5:

BRBP (5) - Lilac, Jinxy, Raging Bull, Tanzklaue, Kitsunemimi (L-2)

IMO at least one player from this wagon is scum if BRBP is Town (and I assume that). Tanz seems scummy, indeed, but JInxy even scummier. They can both be scum, but I'd prefer to lynch the more likely one today. JInxy has done nothing good for Town, he only voted twice, both times for the players I see as Town (Sakura and BRBP).

He doesn't seem to defend himself, I think he doesn't want to begin the discussion because his arguments might turn out pale compared to my suspicion on him. I understand - they both looked 'scum-like', but voting them if you were scum would be the safest end, wouldn't it? 'Hey, this guy is literally 'screaming' scum, so why don't I vote him to get some townpoints?' - thought JInxy.

"Oh shit" - thought JInxy again - "BRBP is confirmed Town, everyone unvoted. I gotta do that too! I can't let my vote stay there for so long because I might get suspicious. Let's just unvote the guy and write a half-assed reason (again) why I don't want to write anything more right now!"

And the story CONTINUES.

~ Morgan Freeman

I guess I'll start with explaining any suspicions/questions still on me.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

It is true that he hasn't really posted anything to defend himself though. That's kinda odd, but I don't know if we can really call him scummy for that. Frankly, I was never too sure why he got voted on in the first place. Fart just seems really focused on him though...

After reading this, my answer is that fart didn't really ask any question to me that I can answer to and defend myself with. I answered the behaviour thing this page: p/2459784/ , fart votes for me anyway with I assume the behaviour reasoning here since he doesn't give new reasoning: p/2461983/ , and his latest post (p/2465798/) goes to the no-defense reason which I once again note, I was given nothing new to talk about for my defense.

And for fart's next reason, "Not scumhunting"? I don't know how you define "scumhunting", but my whole discussion with Sakura is pointing out where she acts scummy and finding contradictions, and I was looking for possible slips in BRBP's posts.

Last reason, "Voting BRBP". ...What. If you mean "Voting BRBP after he shot", then that's because I was waiting for mod confirmation, in case the shot was a fake-out and BRBP wasn't vig at all. The "modkill on fakeshot" isn't standardized I believe, since there's nothing about it on the wiki.
_____________________________________

Now, for Kitsunemimi, I'm pretty ok with his/her(welp) answers to Lilac in the last post. As I've said, doubting BRBP's shot before pieguy's confirmation doesn't really prove anything since BRBP was just that scummy before the shot.
_____________________________________

RB's post on Kanye is interesting, but honestly I can't judge by meta since I wasn't in DOTA smalltown and I sure as hell don't feel like reading the ungodly amount of pages just for meta's sake. Might be because he's busy, might not. The only way is for him to answer, and I'm going to Prod: Kanye.
_____________________________________

Tanz is getting my attention now, after giving reads instead of answering Kitsune as s/he has pointed out. I also noticed something slip-like:

Tanzklaue wrote:

jinxy: null-ish, with a hint of a hint of scum. really, only minor hints though. his behaviour over the last few posts was generally less scummy than before, though him keeping his vote BRBP won't bring him any good (like it didn't to me).

I'm reading this as "keeping votes on BRBP will cause me to become suspicious", and that he stopped voting BRBP for the suspicion he was getting. These two point make me feel he's very scummy.

On a completely unrelated note:

Tanzklaue wrote:

for the love of god, please don't continue with this strategy. if you survive by miracle then be a nice girl and try to play less extreme and get your revive out (except if we have no dead townies by miracle of course lol).

RE: Sakura as Sanae. Icwudt
_____________________________________

These are the recent suspicions and my opinions. I'm leaning Tanz but I do kinda want to see what he says in reply to Kitsune first.

Kanye has been prodded..again

Votecount 1.6:

Tanzklaue (3) - Royston, Sakura, Lilac
Jinxy (2) - fartownik, BRBP
Kanye West (1) - Raging Bull

deadline is in 23:13

Oh well BRBP and fart posted while I was writing my wall, ok
I'll answer to fart because he's directly referencing me anyway

fartownik wrote:

IMO at least one player from this wagon is scum if BRBP is Town (and I assume that). Tanz seems scummy, indeed, but JInxy even scummier. They can both be scum, but I'd prefer to lynch the more likely one today. JInxy has done nothing good for Town, he only voted twice, both times for the players I see as Town (Sakura and BRBP).

He doesn't seem to defend himself, I think he doesn't want to begin the discussion because his arguments might turn out pale compared to my suspicion on him. I understand - they both looked 'scum-like', but voting them if you were scum would be the safest end, wouldn't it? 'Hey, this guy is literally 'screaming' scum, so why don't I vote him to get some townpoints?' - thought JInxy.

"Oh shit" - thought JInxy again - "BRBP is confirmed Town, everyone unvoted. I gotta do that too! I can't let my vote stay there for so long because I might get suspicious. Let's just unvote the guy and write a half-assed reason (again) why I don't want to write anything more right now!"

And the story CONTINUES.

~ Morgan Freeman

1. How have I done nothing good for Town? Hell, I should be throwing the answer back at you, what good have you done for town? Your ISO is basically constantly on me with flawed reasons and also for [url]voting who you think is Town[/url]. Let that sink in for a moment, along with
url=https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/2459784/]this post.[/url] I quote: "I voted JInxy for his behavior only, I didn't care who in person he accused."
And RE: BRBP, you only saw him as town after he shot NH!

2. Like I said, you didn't give me anything new to discuss about. "Your behaviour is scummy" "Ok, here's my reason" "lol still voting you anyway" "OMG YOU DIDN'T DEFEND YOUSELF FROM MY VOTE"

3. Really. Are you even serious right now? BRBP was clearly acting scummy and slipping all over, you didn't comment on your read on him until he shot NH! And I specifically said my vote was still on BRBP because I wanted pieguy's confirmation. I unvoted him when I got the chance, and apparently it's a sin to be too tired to post more in your books

Vote: fartownik. You're accusing me with absolutely bullshit reasons and contradicting yourself all over.

Ok lol I was so annoyed with fart's post I derped up on a lot of the html, let me do that again

1. How have I done nothing good for Town? Hell, I should be throwing the answer back at you, what good have you done for town? Your ISO is basically constantly on me with flawed reasons and also for me voting who you think is Town. Let that sink in for a moment, along with
this post. I quote: "I voted JInxy for his behavior only, I didn't care who in person he accused."
And RE: BRBP, you only saw him as town after he shot NH!

Great, you're voting another Townie. Congrats!

JInxy wrote:

1. How have I done nothing good for Town? Hell, I should be throwing the answer back at you, what good have you done for town? Your ISO is basically constantly on me with flawed reasons and also for me voting who you think is Town. Let that sink in for a moment, along with
this post. I quote: "I voted JInxy for his behavior only, I didn't care who in person he accused."
And RE: BRBP, you only saw him as town after he shot NH!

I didn't have a Towntell on Sakura at that point. Is this really so unclear? Are you even following the game?

Your vote is - again - partially elicited by someone else (by me this time). Am I really so scummy? This is an obvious OMGUS right there.

fartownik wrote:

Your vote is - again - partially elicited by someone else (by me this time). Am I really so scummy? This is an obvious OMGUS right there.

Yes, you are the scummiest person I have ever seen in my mafia playing life. You answered a grand total of 1 question from my post, and you're insinuating that voting you for your (scummy as fuck, question-avoiding and contradictory) actions is wrong and it's an OMGUS? I don't know if you're trying to scumhunt, or just piss me off big time with your recent stupidity.

Here are the other questions I asked in my post, laid out in a manner that someone like you can understand.

1. How can you use me voting BRBP as a reason, when your "towntell" is after my vote on him and also after the mod has fucking confirmed the kill?
2. How can I "defend" myself from your accusations, when you only posted ONE accusation which I answered, before you decided to carry on voting for me?

This third one is rhetorical.
3. Are you fucking seriously calling me scummy for voting a scummy person at the time (and you being nowhere near the thread to say "hey guys, I think he's town!"), and unvoting when he becomes confirmed town after his shot and the mod's confirmation? And using my time schedule, which I have no control of, as evidence to support your batshit insane reasoning?

Jinxy wrote:

fartownik wrote:

Your vote is - again - partially elicited by someone else (by me this time). Am I really so scummy? This is an obvious OMGUS right there.

Yes, you are the scummiest person I have ever seen in my mafia playing life. You answered a grand total of 1 question from my post, and you're insinuating that voting you for your (scummy as fuck, question-avoiding and contradictory) actions is wrong and it's an OMGUS? I don't know if you're trying to scumhunt, or just piss me off big time with your recent stupidity.

Here are the other questions I asked in my post, laid out in a manner that someone like you can understand.

1. How can you use me voting BRBP as a reason, when your "towntell" is after my vote on him and also after the mod has fucking confirmed the kill?
2. How can I "defend" myself from your accusations, when you only posted ONE accusation which I answered, before you decided to carry on voting for me?

This third one is rhetorical.
3. Are you fucking seriously calling me scummy for voting a scummy person at the time (and you being nowhere near the thread to say "hey guys, I think he's town!"), and unvoting when he becomes confirmed town after his shot and the mod's confirmation? And using my time schedule, which I have no control of, as evidence to support your batshit insane reasoning?

1. You were voting a Townie in the end, weren't you? Doesn't matter when you voted him then. All your scum-votes so far were wrong in my opinion, so my tell is that you're scum.

2. Wow, you've actually answered one of my questions that was: "give me your reads, please". I've stated the possibility of you being scum along with NH/BRBP a lot of times, same for others, yet you didn't bother quoting them anyhow/asking why we suspect you.

3. HECK YES. By PoE of the BRBP wagoners I thought you were the most likely to be scum. Also you imply that voting a scummy person is a perfect tell of you being Town? No, it's not. Scum vote scummy people same frequently to gain townpoints, this is nowhere to be a towntell. And you saying this also proves that I was right - you thought you'd get townpoints from that vote.

I don't like 1on1 discussions like this because they usually turn out being a Town vs Town fights, but I'm not gonna just back off with my arguments, though your reaction to my accusations seems pretty Town-like.

Just woke up, will respond later, but atm Jinxy seems like scum, imma ISO him again and check whether I agree with fartownik or not

1. I can see where you're coming from now, and it's still a pretty ridiculous leap in logic. I am scum because my votes were proven wrong? It's about how the people act, obviously I'm going to vote for scummy people, that's how the game is supposed to be played. Voting wrongly isn't a flat out scum tell unless the reasons are weak, which I highly doubt they were in my case. I gave my reasons and showed the slips that supported those reasons every step of the way.

2. I did not see the need to ask. In your ISO, your first vote on me is credited to my "behaviour", which I believe I explained here. You never spoke of any new reasons so I simply assumed that was what you used when you talked about the possibility, and your second vote on me, like what I said here:

Jinxy wrote:

my answer is that fart didn't really ask any question to me that I can answer to and defend myself with. I answered the behaviour thing this page: p/2459784/ , fart votes for me anyway with I assume the behaviour reasoning here since he doesn't give new reasoning: p/2461983/ , and his latest post (p/2465798/) goes to the no-defense reason which I once again note, I was given nothing new to talk about for my defense.

3. I implied no such thing, I'm trying to say that your so-called scum tell on me is for what anyone would do, which is to vote scummy people, and unvote when they've proven themselves to not be scum. Like I said, that's how the game works. It's a null tell.

ok, I'll try to answer the questions from you BRBP and kitsunemimi

Kitsunemimi wrote:

....Now that I look at Tanz, he sort of seems a bit scummy....
Just somewhat, not too scummy... but...
I actually agree with Sakura about his IIoA. He seems to just kind of go with the flow. Like he will agree with what other people are saying, but he doesn't post much about his opinions, and I don't think I've seen him pick up something new that somebody hasn't mentioned yet. I also agree with how Tanz's reaction to Sakura's vote on him was a bit too much. It might just be in his personality though.

I didn't have strong leads of my own, so i followed others.my reaction to sakura's vote on me was like that since she again made a 180° turn. first reading me leaning town for good analysis, then reading me scum forhaving no analysis at all. if she wasn't basically an almost confirmed townie, it even could've been a reason for a backswing at her.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

you are weak because there was the chance that you don't get lynched, and you most likely wouldn't have gotten NK'd since scum would rather keep you around for the misslynch.

so basically you gave away the possibility of at least one revive and exchanged it for no revive and an extension of your live by 24 hours.

This post felt really strange to me, and it seems like nobody reacted to it because it was overshadowed by BRBP's hyper-contradictory post which had followed...


There was a whole series of posts made by him from 1-2 days ago that makes it sound like he's obsessing over town-benefit. Like how Sakura baiting a bandwagon on herself could only hurt town, a bunch of "useful to town", "beneficial to town", etc.
But now he insists on keeping his vote on BRBP, who is essentially confirmed (bad) town. He doesn't even explicitly deny it himself. He doesn't even unvote like I did. I'm pretty sure we all know BRBP is town, or at least there's very good evidence of it, but you're keeping your vote on him? Seems kind of contradictory.

I didn't unvote BRBP since I didn't know that the deadline was extended. I should've imediately unvoted him then, though. it was a dumb mistake of mine, since with the new time left, I could've done more already if I'd unvoted him. I admit to this mistake.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

...As a matter of fact,

Tanzklaue wrote:

I'm sure that a candidate will come up in the next 34 hours.

He could just be lazy, but we already have two people who are being suspected. Jinxy, who has been under close inspection for quite a while now... and Royston, whom Lilac has voted for recently. Hell, you were even suspicious of Royston a few hours ago...?

I don't think that jinxy is scum anymore, and I didn't have enough of a tell on royston to really vote him. I was still in the mindset of keeping my vote on BRBP, since I still thought "Bad townie > good townie if no scumsuspects". again, incredibly dumb on my part, and I should've been probably lynched by my own logic.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

I also have suspicions on kanye and royston, simply for not being here. the amount of lurking from both is suspicious.

It seems like you're just keeping your vote on BRBP just because it seems the most likely that he'll be voted off for his actions as long as enough votes stay on him for the one remaining day.

again, dumb mindset. from my side.

Kitsunemimi wrote:

Oh yeah, and remember Tanz's RV on Kanye that he withdrew on? He reacted pretty sharply when Sakura just asked him a simple question. "really, you're reading to deep into this." seems kinda like an overreaction. This is rather minor, I could be wrong but, maybe Kanye is scum with Tanz, and Tanz voted Kanye because he was actually joking around, and then removed his vote so people can't start an unintentional bandwagon on Kanye.

I said that because I have the honest opinion that the RVS isn't that informative. I really think that sakura reads to deep into it, especially with the obvious dicking around from many people in the RVS.
I actually have now a base to be suspicious of kanye with his extremely lurky attitude.

so, now on to BRBP...
so your question were "why is jinxy a good scumsuspect in my eyes?" and "why can't jinxy and I (BRBP) be scum together?".
for the first question, I don't think jinxy is scum anymore, or more precisely he only leans ever so slightly to scum. anyway, my reasons previously were similiar to yours, he latched onto sakura fairly quick, and tunneled aggressively against her. his more recent posts though make me look at him much less critically.

I never outright said that you and jinxy are both scum, if I remember correctly. anyway, the way you two reacted after the sakura-bandwagon wasn't viable anymore says for me that you are most likely not scum together, if one of you were to be scum. you directly attacked him, and he attacked you, and this after a bandwagon you both were on disbanded. I think that scum wouldn't imediately take the risk of crossvoting each other in this situation, especially if both have strong suspicions on them and a fairly big waggon.

is there more I need to respond to? or other questions you want to ask? I will try to answer them properly.

that said, I really want to know what kanye's take on the situation is.

Vote: Kanye

kanye, what are your takes on the recent developments and why do you hold back so much? surely there you must have an opinion on all that happened.

Believe me, if I was scum I wouldn't make it so easy for you guys with something as mundane as inactivity (take that how you like). I'd also like to call out those fishing in the lurker pool, the easiest targets for mafia to distract with (as this happens so damned often with terrible results).

The point of the matter is everyone is quibbling over stuff I either don't care about or don't agree with (ie people's points for X being scummy basically does not convince me either way). If you really want what is going through my head right now;


If you want to tl;dr that, nothing jumps out right now. Just a bunch of weak day 1 feelings.

Unvote
Vote: Tanzklaue

JInxy is not confirmed Town yet, but his reaction for my attack was enough for me to call him Town-leaning, which is also enough to take the vote off. Tanz is my next target by PoE. I wouldn't like voting Kanye right now, no matter how suspicious his inactivity is, as Tanz is doing that as well and he might be scum.

Sorry, I might not be able to do much tonight. my internet is extremely slow for some reason.

Royston wrote:

Speaking of which, Lilac, why did you vote for me? Just to put pressure on me, or do you think I'm scum? You noted in a previous post that you thought either BRBP, me, or Rantai was scum. Why vote me and not, say, Rantai?

I may have skimmed over it but I don't think you've responded to this yet Lilac, I'm still curious

hm, looking at the people that voted for me...

royston: voted pretty early on for me. not for the best reasoning, but his vote didn't concern me too much (which is why I ignored it completely).

sakura: after making yet another 180 flip flop on her reads, votes me. overall people seemed to first agree with me in the BRBP case, only to then completly turn against me. I am iffy about her, or more about her motivations at this moment.

lilac: flip flopped between royston, kitsune and me in a fairly short time. it seems like he searches for a bandwaggon that he can build up, like roysotn --> inactivity and then questioning kitsune. these quick changes seem odd, just my opinion though.

fart: after tunneling like a madman on jinxy, suddenly decides that his reasoning is okay and votes me, who conveniently has the biggest waggon on him. also his reason for not voting kanye "as he (me) might be scum" is really strange. royston and lilac could be mafia aswell, especially royston, on whom we have no clear call at all.

I think that there is at least one scum at the moment voting for me. I think sakura is pretty clear, so I think amongst royston, lilac and fart, there is one scum. also one of kanye-rantai-royston is scum, i am still sure about that.

^ pretty poor counter-attack I must say. The reasons for voting you are clear - you will not get anything from directing the suspicions on one of us like this (or trying to direct, because it's poorly done as I said). Even more scummy behavior.

Unless my reads are entirely wrong, I'm fairly certain that fart is Town @Tanz.

I still don't see much from what fart said towards Jinxy. On the other hand Jinxy has been rather overdefensive...

Royston wrote:

Royston wrote:

Speaking of which, Lilac, why did you vote for me? Just to put pressure on me, or do you think I'm scum? You noted in a previous post that you thought either BRBP, me, or Rantai was scum. Why vote me and not, say, Rantai?

I may have skimmed over it but I don't think you've responded to this yet Lilac, I'm still curious

My reason of voting you was clear. There's something I don't like about Rantai but it's late here and posting on a phone is definitely bad.

As much as I dislike farto's attitude in this game, that was indeed a weak counter attack if it was meant to be one at all. I need to sleep now but I'll be awake before the deadline.

@Sakura: What if I said your reads are wrong? What are you going to do? Hit me with a stick like a shrine maiden does? Or abuse the wind? Ooo, scary.

hi, just woke up sry

vote: Tanzklaue I think he's trying to use his random null-read unvote to make himself look town rather than scum by using my inactivity as an excuse to push for my lynch, as my town flip would give him townpoints because everyone thought he was RV'ing his scum buddy. Basically trying to cover up his own mistake. Also he's deflecting to inactives like me, Royston, and Rantai (to a lesser extent). Not quite a scumtell but suspicious regardless. Btw, I think that idea of vocal vs silent mafia isn't always true; you can have three very vocal scum or even three silent scum, again not a good basis for narrowing down scumspects.

@RB I understand your reason for voting me, even though I don't agree with it. I requested a replacement in dota mafia because I was actually busy. Don't need one now. Also voting someone off meta isn't always the best course of action. Remember high school mafia? I can do the same thing again if you want

Also tanz's vote on me was another mis-step.

Tanzklaue wrote:

that said, I really want to know what kanye's take on the situation is.

Vote: Kanye

I dunno about anyone else but this screamed "hey, kanye's still afk, let's try to divert town's attention away from me". There really was no reason for him to vote me, as I was forced to respond to RB's vote anyway.

I thought Jinxy was scum until the back-and-forth between him and farto. Of course, that could easily be set up between them and no one would be the wiser. Tanz is still the better vote.

BRBP is conf town unless there's some kind of daykill SK role. Is that possible? I know it's possible in IRC mafia.

fartownik wrote:

^ pretty poor counter-attack I must say. The reasons for voting you are clear - you will not get anything from directing the suspicions on one of us like this (or trying to direct, because it's poorly done as I said). Even more scummy behavior.

I just presented my opinions about the situation. I know what i am, so I will look out for people that go after me, since there is always the possibility of scum trying to get an easy lynch.

sakura actually just doesn't really make sense to me, but she luckily is almost confirmed as town, lilac is actually scumhunting. royston is new, and I can understand his reasoning for voting on me.

you on the other hand just seem kinda random. do you have any reasons to vote for me aside from my overpressuring of BRBP?

Sakura wrote:

I still don't see much from what fart said towards Jinxy. On the other hand Jinxy has been rather overdefensive...

Precisely that, though I wouldn't call that overdefensive. I argued back with massive annoyance precisely because I felt fart was trying to pin untrue stuff on me.

I'm psure that kanye is scum, he says that my reasoning of inactivity seems weird, but then RB's reasoning of inactivity is "understandable".

I also already said, that I have no deeper meaning in my RV. also, why should a townflip help me? people won't think "he voted him because scumbuddycover up", but much rather "he pushed further onto kanye, he has to be scum". I also voted on you so you finally come around, more pressure = more possible info from slips. I also honestly got scummy vibes from you, as your inactivity was just unnatural.

my counterattacks are fairly weak, yes, because there isn't any of the guys I really honestly believe are scum on my waggon. it's more of a last resort before claiming, since I don't want my role to be publicly known if I can.

@Tanz: Because you're deflecting.

Also i think you're at L-2 atm (by my count should be 5 votes on you), if you're town then you should try to claim and give us your reads before you are lynched, this normally only happens with an intent to hammer, but considering in here you're lynched at deadline i'm just warning you about the L-2.

Jinxy wrote:

Sakura wrote:

I still don't see much from what fart said towards Jinxy. On the other hand Jinxy has been rather overdefensive...

Precisely that, though I wouldn't call that overdefensive. I argued back with massive annoyance precisely because I felt fart was trying to pin untrue stuff on me.

What's 'untrue' there? I just perceive the game this way. The scum is usually not the obvious target and you have to look uniquely at the situation, though I admit it turned out good because your reaction convinced me town-leaning.

Tanzklaue wrote:

I'm psure that kanye is scum, he says that my reasoning of inactivity seems weird, but then RB's reasoning of inactivity is "understandable".

I also already said, that I have no deeper meaning in my RV. also, why should a townflip help me? people won't think "he voted him because scumbuddycover up", but much rather "he pushed further onto kanye, he has to be scum". I also voted on you so you finally come around, more pressure = more possible info from slips. I also honestly got scummy vibes from you, as your inactivity was just unnatural.

my counterattacks are fairly weak, yes, because there isn't any of the guys I really honestly believe are scum on my waggon. it's more of a last resort before claiming, since I don't want my role to be publicly known if I can.

RB voted me on meta and inactivity, you voted me on inactivity (and deflection). different cases entirely.

Sakura wrote:

@Tanz: Because you're deflecting.

Also i think you're at L-2 atm (by my count should be 5 votes on you), if you're town then you should try to claim and give us your reads before you are lynched, this normally only happens with an intent to hammer, but considering in here you're lynched at deadline i'm just warning you about the L-2.

I am aware of that.

I already gave my reads, they didn't change too much, except fart is a little more leaning scum now.

I am Nazrin, mouse yokai. I have some weird mice that like to find guns. so you can call me a gunsmith of sorts.

but I don't even know if gun flavour means mafia/cop (like it should) or if I can just find gun flavour on a potential nitori and maybe yukari (since she has connections to the world outside of gensokyo). pieguy gave me rather confusing answers to that when i asked him. I am not sure as to how much i can say about my questions and his answers.

Kanye West wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

I'm psure that kanye is scum, he says that my reasoning of inactivity seems weird, but then RB's reasoning of inactivity is "understandable".

I also already said, that I have no deeper meaning in my RV. also, why should a townflip help me? people won't think "he voted him because scumbuddycover up", but much rather "he pushed further onto kanye, he has to be scum". I also voted on you so you finally come around, more pressure = more possible info from slips. I also honestly got scummy vibes from you, as your inactivity was just unnatural.

my counterattacks are fairly weak, yes, because there isn't any of the guys I really honestly believe are scum on my waggon. it's more of a last resort before claiming, since I don't want my role to be publicly known if I can.

RB voted me on meta and inactivity, you voted me on inactivity (and deflection). different cases entirely.

not really. meta voting is something rather meh, and you just accuse me of deflection. so both reasons are pretty shallow, and what is left over is inactivity for both of us.

I also got the confirmation just now that I can work like a normal gunsmith.

Yeah, you're probably not a flavor Gunsmith since that would be underpowered (a lot). I guess it fits, but the role is still not necessarily town-aligned.

I am a flavour gunsmith. i discussed it with pieguy and we came to the conclusion that nobody in gensokyo makes sense. it's to be assumed that I find guns when scanning mafia or roles like cop, vig etc.

a mafia gunsmith would be really underpowered though, I wouldn't have been able to find the flavour on BRBP (asked pieguy about it, prolly because he mastersparks instead of using a gun), so the only thing I would be able to find is cop or nightvig with fairly low successrates.

Tanzklaue wrote:

I am a flavour gunsmith. i discussed it with pieguy and we came to the conclusion that nobody in gensokyo makes sense. it's to be assumed that I find guns when scanning mafia or roles like cop, vig etc.

Yeah, so you're an Alignment Gunsmith, not Flavor Gunsmith. If you were a Flavor one you'd be scanning the flavor (characters) and not the actual roles.

no, I find guns when scanning mafia, cops, vigs etc.

they carry the flavour "gun" with them. it says something about their flavour, but not necessarily about their alignment.

also, there is no such thing as an alignment gunsmith. a gunsmith is basically a specific flavour cop.

So you get an information what weapon is the character wielding?

no. it says "x has a gun/has no gun". I would assume.

I think there is a missunderstanding. I scan them for the flavour "gun", from which i can deduct the role behind it (mafia (except mafiadoctors), cop etc.)

Ok what. This is really confusing me. No body in Gensokyo uses a gun, obviously, so your role would probably be a Role Gunsmith, which finds roles that usually use guns. But you wouldn't have seen BRBP the Dayvig? That makes no god damn sense, and an Alignment Gunsmith is literally just a Cop, isn't it?

The problem with Gunsmith is that there's no master list of what triggers it, and when you add in the fact that it doesn't even fit the flavour, and... ?????

I literally asked pieguy the same questions. he maybe should've made me just a straight up flavour cop or role cop.

so to clarify:

I investigate roles, to find out if they have a gun flavour. so basically a normal gunsmith.

Tanzklaue wrote:

I also got the confirmation just now that I can work like a normal gunsmith.

So you say pieguy is online right now?

@mod: votecount please

he answered my pm half an hour ago,dunno if he is still there.

I thought Nitori uses water guns at some point. I thought Reisen uses her fingers as 'guns'?

like I said, for some reason, mafia aligned people here have guns aswell (except doc ofc), and cop and vig also have them. or should. BRBP wouldn't have had them, that's at least what pieguy said to me.

I also could have missunderstood what he said, and i would've been able to find the gun flavour on BRBP and I jsut read his answer wrong (or he my question).

I don't really buy it. You saying that you asked pieguy about it doesn't mean you actually did it. And if you didn't do it it might be as well a fakeclaim for a leaning-Town role.

Not believing that claim yet, it makes no sense at all.

Also apparently you know there's a doc in the mafia?

Sakura wrote:

Not believing that claim yet, it makes no sense at all.

Also apparently you know there's a doc in the mafia?

I never said that. but a mafia doc would give me a "x has a gun" result. just wanted you to keep that in mind.

if you don't believe my claim, then please at least lynch kanye day 2. I am 100% certain that he is scum by now.

Tanzklaue wrote:

like I said, for some reason, mafia aligned people here have guns aswell (except doc ofc), and cop and vig also have them. or should. BRBP wouldn't have had them, that's at least what pieguy said to me.

I also could have missunderstood what he said, and i would've been able to find the gun flavour on BRBP and I jsut read his answer wrong (or he my question).

This implies a mafia doc existing yes, and it also implies you have knowledge of it.

Also your statement implies that a mafia doc wouldnt have a gun, yet you said it would in the post right after i called you out for the mafia doc statement.

Lol'd.

it doesn't?

it says so in the wiki, and I thought I would bring it up, just as clarification. because there could be the case of a mafia doc, I wouldn't find guns, and would probably still confirm the person as most likly town.

Sakura wrote:

Also your statement implies that a mafia doc wouldnt have a gun, yet you said it would in the post right after i called you out for the mafia doc statement.

that was a crucial typo. it should say "wouldn't".

go to the wiki if you don't believe me. it says it right there.

Why would you specifically go look into the wiki about the existance of a mafia doc?

I looked up how exactly the gunsmith works. I only played three games until now.
there I read that doctors don't have guns. even mafia ones.

I am really tired of you 2. I am certain that you are town, but you both do a weird townjiob to say the least.

there you want to be nice and clarify to the best of your ability, and then you get scumcred for being nice.

If you already went and checked that why didn't you check on the possibility of a mafia dayvig? didn't you have suspicions on BRBP before?

I looked that up aswell, yes. there are few of them, but the chance of a dayvig being mafia is fairly low.

the situation back then was different. in my eyes, BRBP being a mafia dayvig was still higher than jinxy being scum, and he was the only other major scumsuspect at this point of time.

Fine for me.

Unvote
Vote: Kanye

Why back then were BRBP's chances of being a mafia dayvig higher than now?

Why do you think he cannot be a major scumspect right now?

Sakura wrote:

Why do you think he cannot be a major scumspect right now?

because his actions verified him as town. the chance of him being a mafia aligned dayvig were fairly low to begin with. he is as scummy as you are.

he took the questions face on, and actually played like a normal townie after the shot on NH.

Hmm ok then
Vote: Rantai
Your turn.

Just one last question for Tanz:

So you agree me and BRBP are the scummier people in here, you aren't voting either because we're technically confirmed town, yet you say that there's a possibility of a dayvig, which technically that doesn't make it confirmed town.

What would be the chances of a scum reviver as opposted to scum dayvig?

Sakura wrote:

Just one last question for Tanz:

So you agree me and BRBP are the scummier people in here, you aren't voting either because we're technically confirmed town, yet you say that there's a possibility of a dayvig, which technically that doesn't make it confirmed town.

What would be the chances of a scum reviver as opposted to scum dayvig?

scum reviver = almost 0. it's a fairly dumb role, because you couldn't revive anyone up until lylo, where it would be an automatic win.

mafia dayvig is a possibility, but BRBP doesn't give me any reason anymore to believe that.

you are bascially confirmed because your role on mafiaside would make no sense at all. BRBP is basically confirmed because mafia aligned dayvigs are rare, and his actions hint at him being town.
though BRBP has still swing in him (he could turn out to be mafia after all), you most certainly are town.

So you say that you are randomly believing my claim, ergo I should believe yours as well?

You say there can be mafia dayvig, does his actions excuse him (including the shot itself) from being scum? if so which?

Sakura wrote:

So you say that you are randomly believing my claim, ergo I should believe yours as well?

You say there can be mafia dayvig, does his actions excuse him (including the shot itself) from being scum? if so which?

I believe your claim because there is no real reason not to. your actions might be not the most protown, but I think you do them in pro-town interests.

BRBp did the most logical and town-ish thing he could do after the shot. you did that aswell. attacking me and putting pressure on me for my behaviour was probably the most town thing he could've done at that moment. (he also didn't continue with weird flip floppy play like you did )

So you think him shooting NH was town motivated?

what do you think?

Tanzklaue wrote:

what do you think?

I asked first, please do not reply to a question with another question.

technically you also said "only one last question" and then asked 4.

I can imagine him having town motivations and just not thinking it through. there is also the possibility of him shooting before getting lynched and then avoiding a lynch. but I don't think that is the case.

What motivation could he possibly had about shooting first and asking question later instead of saying he was dayvig and would shoot him if he didn't claim?

what motivations could you have had for acting overly scummy, when the usefulness of it was questionable?

what motivations could I have had for keeping the pressure on BRBP for so long?

sometimes people make mistakes. I don't overanalyze every little detail, because at one point, you will find yourself not being able to really make a point anymore and you end up flip flopping between everyone who looked at you funny. I think it's more useful to try to find solid reads and suspicions as opposed to "every action could have had scumintent!".

I already mentioned why I did it, re-read the thread and tell me if you can find it.

Good question on the second one, you kept pressure on him for fairly long then suddenly he becomes scummier and closer to lynch and you suddenly town read him, even after admitting there could be scum dayvig.

Vote: Tanzklaue

I can take care of Rantai tomorrow, this guy needs rope today.

Dem empty threats.

In less subtle words, come at me now. We'll see how good you are.

you're funny sakura.

you know that you contradict yourself? BRBP did, after his shooting, look less scummier than he did before. he was close to a lynch, and people started questioning me. it was established that BRBP read town for most people, they started pressuring me. I started explaining myself, and answered the questions that were asked to me as good as I could.

then I claimed, I already established before that that I don't have much reason to believe that BRBP is scum. then you come around, and say me townreading him (which is btw. the most sane thing for anyone to do) means that I am scum. you revote me, after unvoting me at first. you asked questions which are not really answerable in a town way. they even seem deliberatly asked in this fashion to make me answer in a way that would contradict myself.

you also seemed to be awfully concerned about my ability and who i could find and who I couldn't find.
afraid perhaps that i would find a few guns if I scanned you? would be inconvenient for a so called reviver to carry around weapons of murder I think.

you also didn't answered the questions I asked. like you didn't answer the questions earlier.

why should you be afraid of a role that could basically 99% confirm you if you didn't lie?

You contradicting yourself is your own fault, not mine. I'm not afraid of your role, what makes you think i am?

that you suddenly revote me, after first saying that my case is closed.

I didn't contradict myself. I already established how I first kept my vot on BRBP since he was my biggest lead, and then unvoted him in the aftermath, as I believed that he most likely isn't scum after that.
how would you answer the question "how does him shooting without saying anything before make him look not scummy?" in a way that wouldn't make you look scummy? its the same question as "why would you, sakura, grab all the attention if you weren't scum?". any answer that isn't "you're right, he/she is scum" would paint the asked one as scum.

your whole gameplan in this game was weird. even after you admitted that your tactic of acting scummy was dumb, you continued looking scummy, continued flip flopping between multiple people. you also didn't really hunt for scum, as your vote on me came out of the blue (out of yet another flip flop), and you have gone along with the reasoning of others. you seem to go for whoever seems like he would make a good target. your vote on rantai again came without reason, and you still reading jinxy as scum while most of us switched away from him is just odd.

I don't think any longer that any town aligned person would play like this. I'm sorry kanye, but I think your case has to wait.

Vote: Sakura

So because im pressuring you i'm scum? nice logic.
And looks like you're able to back down on your apparently conf.town read on me just because i'm pressuring you and asking you questions?

@Rantai: I specified the reasons i suspect you in my reads list, go and read.

So i'm still acting scummy then?

Why do you try to attack me while also mudsligning at a lurker to whom you deflected attention before?

because I think you're scum. and i believe kanye is scum aswell.

sakura, answer the questions I gave you.

and i have a nw one. might be familiar to you.

why did you unvote BRBP directly after his shot, when I gave the possibility of him being a mafia aligned dayvig? why do you back down from your scumsuspect directly after he did the most scummy thing possible?

it's also not the pressure in itself. it is the fact that you first took of the pressure from me, then asked iffy questions, and then voted me again. the questions couldn't get anything other but at least slight contradictions out of anyone because the way you asked them didn't allow for it. bsically, if you were this sure that I am scum, then why did you unvote in the first place?

Oh that was actually serious.

Well I outright giggled from the "scumslip" comment, I assume that's not a strong factor.

Unfortunately for you, my personality (need a better word but I'll stick to that) won't change on a whim, not going to pull out BS analysis just to appease the crowd.

If I actually see something that doesn't seem right, I'll probe it (then again you've seen my take on what I see in the thread already).

Tanzklaue wrote:

why did you unvote BRBP directly after his shot, when I gave the possibility of him being a mafia aligned dayvig? why do you back down from your scumsuspect directly after he did the most scummy thing possible?

At the time I thought he might've been a town dayvig, and you wanting to paint him as scum dayvig was you being scummy trying to go for a mislynch, unlike you, I didn't check the possibility of a mafia dayvig.

Children, stop fighting please. Make up with each other because you're (most likely) both Town voting yourselves. If you think Kanye is scum - vote him, because I think so too and we will not lose time for pointless argues.

This isn't fighting this is me questioning my scumread on his actions to see whether it strengthes or weakens my scumread on him, which as you have seen already it started going down then it went back up.

Sakura wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

why did you unvote BRBP directly after his shot, when I gave the possibility of him being a mafia aligned dayvig? why do you back down from your scumsuspect directly after he did the most scummy thing possible?

At the time I thought he might've been a town dayvig, and you wanting to paint him as scum dayvig was you being scummy trying to go for a mislynch, unlike you, I didn't check the possibility of a mafia dayvig.

and after I brought up the possibility of him being a mafia dayvig, you didn't reconsider your read on him. but I am scum for actually considering the possibility and keeping my pressure on him for that possibility?

I mean, if you now come around and say that he lookd the most scummy after he shot, then you must have considered it. but you still decided to go after me. your argument would work if you hadn't basically admitted that you considered the possibility of him being a mafia dayvig.

also, you still need to answer the question why you believe that BRBP is less scummy than me, and was less scummy than me, when he basically did the most scum thing possible. why do you read me as scum over him?

I never said I considered the possibility of mafia dayvig, what makes you think I did?

I read you as scum because you attempted to place blame on BRBP being possible mafia dayvig, without supporting it that it could actually exist, you're general IIoA throughout the game, deflecting attention when you're in trouble, and then contradicting yourself when being questioned.

that you even asked the questions did. why would it even be of interest what i think about the possibility of a mafia dayvig if you don't believe that there is one?

only other motivation would be that you - like I said - deliberatly tried to scumpaint me again.

A proper town defense would be to refute my points.

A proper scum defense would be to attack their attacker... like you're doing now.

I didn't contradict myself.

I actually have support for the possibility of mafia dayvigs (mafiascumwiki at least says that they aren't unheard of).

I tried to analyse, and for the most part, i couldn't get much out of it. I followed the most reasonable view, which was in the case of BRBP lilac. after that, I did have my own leads.

I tried to defend myself when i was under heavy pressure, like every person would. of course I would name the people I see as scummy when everyone tries to kill me. who wouldn't? there is no townmotivation at all in not defending yourself.

Yeah, but your defense ended up in you attacking me when I started to consider you as scum again, why?