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Pasonia has admin and is the official BATmanager

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Pokebis
2,047 posts
Joined April 2008
Topic Starter
Pokebis
@Pasonia: Did you just make guidelines on how we should organize our complaints? Why not just organize a complaint section with peppy if you're going to do that?

peppy wrote:

I remember initially wanting to make an awesome community. It is unfortunately getting harder and harder to say that I am proud of what it has become.
I'm not trying to question you here, nor is this meant to be aggressive, but I noticed you pushed a lot for publicity and a larger community. And you've got that. GT featured an osu! vid, it was mentioned in a few popular places like VG Catz, and the PW "Don't Stop Me Now" clip really caught the web's attention. I think that would be awesome to have a large community of great people, but with the world we're living in, did you really expect only quality members? To be honest, in my opinion, I loved the community here. About a year ago. I'm not really going to elaborate that much, but it was an opinion I did and still hold. There are still plenty of likable people here that can send a smile to my face, but it's drowned out by those who don't. Also, I know you regard me as one of your least favorite osu! members and would rather me just leave than do anything else, but this is my opinion.
Anyways, my question was, how could you realistically expect osu! to only attract quality members and become an "awesome" community if you show it to everyone who's interested in games in the slightest? Let me give an example. People post this game on GameFAQs. What if every member on GameFAQs signed up for osu! and started trying to be an active member. They all post in the forums and all try to map their personal taste in songs. What we get is lots of low quality posts, poorly mapped songs with beatmappers that unfortunately need a hands on tutor since the FAQ doesn't work for them, and a bunch of whiners, trolls, shut-ins, and idiots. A public website cannot be a secret tree house unless you make it invite only.

Wait, I typed way too much to make that point. tl;dr: You publicized your game on the internet, how could you misjudge the people there so much?

peppy wrote:

Taking the initial step forward is more than has been done in a long time.
Just... pointing this out...
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
Shouldn't this be in Random? People are free to bitch and moan and even troll in there all they want, but this is supposed to be for civil conversation. If that was the way it intended to turn out, things have gone astray.

This is not to say you must agree with whatever anyone says, but to simply say "Things have gone downhill because of <name>" offers little if anything to the conversation. I have strong doubts that anyone here has considered the full scope of variables at play for a community that has grown so large. If you're going to protest, you'd damn well better have a list of viable reasons.

"Pasionia's an admin and the BATmanager, therefore this community is going to become a pile of shit" is the type of opinion, when expressed, does little more than publish one's ignorance. You are not a prophet. You cannot predict nor dictate the future based on your personal feelings. If you're going to chew someone out for doing a lousy job, wait for them to do a lousy job first.

If anyone here didn't intend to be taken seriously when voicing their opinion, then they should have voiced their opinion in Random. Though, on the plus side, anyone who didn't intend to be taken seriously who posted in this thread now has the virtue of not being taken seriously any more by myself.

While I agree with Pokebis' statement that expecting a large community to consist only of quality individuals is ridiculous (thanks to Sturgeons Law), I find it disturbing that nobody else seems to realize this. In a community of 200,000 members, 180,000 of them are not worth talking to and will not contribute in a meaningful way. The sooner everyone realizes this, the sooner they'll realize it's in their best interest to stop making themselves look foolish.
Pokebis
2,047 posts
Joined April 2008
Topic Starter
Pokebis

awp wrote:

While I agree with Pokebis' statement that expecting a large community to consist only of quality individuals is ridiculous, thanks to Sturgeons Law, I find it disturbing that nobody else seems to realize this. In a community of 200,000 members, 180,000 of them are not worth talking to and will not contribute in a meaningful way. The sooner everyone realizes this, the sooner they'll realize it's in their best interest to stop making themselves look foolish.
I'm not sure I quite understand this. It sounds like you're saying "While I agree with Pokebis, I agree with Pokebis." Maybe I'm just slow today, could you elaborate more if that's not what you were trying to say?
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

Pokebis wrote:

I'm not sure I quite understand this. It sounds like you're saying "While I agree with Pokebis, I agree with Pokebis." Maybe I'm just slow today, could you elaborate more if that's not what you were trying to say?
Basically I'm disappointed that you seem to be the only person with an understanding of Sturgeons Law in this thread. As expressed in the second half of the first sentence you quoted.

EDIT: Oh, there's a comma there that shouldn't be. That could be part of the problem on my end.
lukewarmholiday
2,148 posts
Joined June 2008
lukewarmholiday
I understand he's the only one who stepped up to the plate so I really can't say much against that. But when I can't agree or want to feel associated with current/newer BATs and admins(strager was demodded so I guess just BATs), and when the ones that kept me in the community seem to be dropping like flies, I'm really coming to terms with the fact it's probably time for me to move on. We've had meme spouting garbage posters all along but it was small enough that I wasn't bothered by it.

My current(but possibly outdated) view of Pasonia is he's an overreacting, grudge holding, self victimizing, flat out child. I can't say much more about myself, I like to joke around a lot, and I have low toleration to people who overreact to playful comments. I used to be at the opposite end of the spectrum, never being to understand when someone is being serious or just paling around. Even when people get older they give each other crap. A lot. To many it's kind of a way to show you fit in, when you start rejecting that, they start rejecting you. You gotta roll with the criticisms and not let them eat at you so much. Acting self righteous and sitting on a high horse also isn't going to help any disagreement you get in ever when they arise. Most people in the real world that I see get a lot of crap are the people who overreact, and then take it a step farther and talk about how great they are, or how the opposite party is embarrassing themselves. You're just adding gasoline to the fire. It sucks sometimes, but it's how people are.

I usually try to forgive and forget. I'll give you crap on repeated occurrences of something I think is dumb or I disagree with. But going off and talking about how I'm a horrible person and how you don't want to speak to me or be around me, and you vocalize that.(and occurrences such in vent where you just leave the channel the moment I join) WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I GIVE YOU ANY RESPECT WHATSOEVER.

If you really want to end this, lets do it. I still won't treat you any differently than I treat others.

FOR THOSE WHO ARENT PASONIA/ADMIN WHO GIVES A FUCK. YOU CAN JUST READ THIS SECTION DOWN HERE

Ivalset wrote:

Mystearica wrote:

the trolls are making sense for once WHAT THE FUCK
The trolls have always made sense. They are the second greatest source of reason.

The first being LuigiHann, of course.
No sinistro?

wth man.
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun
yeah I'll cut you a deal Pasonia. The same deal I cut with most people IRL I dislike.

Don't ever talk to/about me and I won't ever talk to/about you unless it's absolutely necessary (which I don't see happening). It'll be like you don't exist to me.
Ivalset
osu! Alumni
1,522 posts
Here since the beginning
Ivalset
Sinistro is a troll.
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Pokebis
2,047 posts
Joined April 2008
Topic Starter
Pokebis

peppy wrote:

Also @pokebis I don't rate you that low on the scale. Especially now, as the scale has dropped a lot since we last interacted :p.
When did we last interact? Bug reports?
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Maybe when you ate my head...
lukewarmholiday
2,148 posts
Joined June 2008
lukewarmholiday
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17539

Mainly this thread is why I'm in such bad spirits with him getting anymore authority and title.

Half of my posts were deleted I dunno if you can still see em or not, the first post is in one of stragers quotes

I can't say I was in line from 2nd page onward, but it really ticked me off.
foulcoon
osu! Alumni
1,384 posts
Joined July 2008
foulcoon

peppy wrote:

Sure - I agree with you on a lot of your points, but I don't see that being a problem until it becomes one. I believe in giving people a chance and cleaning up afterwards should things go wrong.
If only Pasonia shared that same view, we could have avoided a big mod lounge bitchfest.
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun

peppy wrote:

I mean come on? Stop posting like this or get out? Just ignore him without making a dick of yourself in public and taking down the happiness of others with you? Just one example, but it was placed right in front of my eyes.
That's what I would have done but I'd rather just make it an agreement so nothing to cause drama happens. Ie, him bitching about me, me bitching about him.

It is immature but it's how I deal with people, sorry if it seems stupid.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

foulcoon wrote:

If only Pasonia shared that same view, we could have avoided a big mod lounge bitchfest.
Oh, nonsense. That's what we do in the mod lounge. We troll each other. And lounge.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,945 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral

lukewarmholiday wrote:

words
Why exactly are the newer BATs persona non grata?

I thought you were being totally reasonable until that point. Have you even talked to half of them extensively? I mean come on, you can't really judge someone like that and still appear outwardly reasonable.

I mean come on, if the community is made of the people in it and there's a rampant preconception amongst the 'pro-regulars' (to borrow Pasonia's term) that 90% of the standing community as we know it is inherently shit because of some internet 'law' - how is spurting nonsense like that and actively condemning people you've never even talked to even slightly beneficial to a community atmosphere? If you want things to improve, why are you complaining about it instead of actually doing something?

A great way to start would to be drop this horseshit regardless of whether Pasonia reciprocates it or not and just keep hanging around, I haven't really talked to either of you much but I know enough to say that the community will suffer should either of you leave over such a trivial matter - it's not as if I'm the community herald or anything, but both of you are interesting and engaging people and obviously have far more ulterior worth to the people here than you probably realize.
Pasonia
osu! Alumni
1,199 posts
Joined October 2008
Pasonia
It is with heavy regret that this topic is locked, given the bad blood that has come to spill all over and the accusations flying left and right and all over.
Edit: This thread has been unlocked after some considerations.

@ Todesengal - you got yourselves a deal. Me never to you, you never to me; you leave me alone, I do the same. Just as I won't interfere with your rage, you shall not interfere on my methods of going about my business.

@lukewarm - you must understand that the thread is for discussing a beatmap technique. Uhh, not... like... flaming.
But yea, hopefully with your better judgment you won't do it again. I guess you're the karma for me jacking kingcobra's initiative blind =x

@peppy - thanks for the trust.

@foulcoon - I didn't share a view of double standards, that is the crux of the matter. Unfortunately, though you are really in a very well-equipped position to make really great decisions, you just end up screwing, misinterpreting it and then sensitive information (+ misinterpretation) goes a-leaking, intention I don't know but consequences aplenty.
This is an "unforced error", nobody told you to leak for sure, so perhaps less time making hindsight judgments would be a good idea for all of us to move on. What has come to pass has already passed.

@Ephemeral - Appreciated gesture, but could use a less harsher tone.

I'm sure we did dream of not turning this place into a potential fairyland, but really, you guys with that tendency (you know, that five letter t-word that ends with double l?) ought to at least just keep the bad and the ugly inside of Random, if not just keep your peace altogether, ya know. Spare a thought for the other forumites.
gp0_old
174 posts
Joined July 2009
gp0_old
Truthfully, I have NOT been around Pasonia much to comment on his work as of now. That said, I will NOT hesistate to appease Pasonia nor will I hesitate to denegrade him if the situation goes north or south. I am grateful that peppy did not choose lukewarmholiday, as I would've permabanned right on the spot. (Though, peppy might have liked that.)

Let's go back to Sturgeon. No, the first law.

"Nothing is always absolutely so."

In appointing Pasonia: Holding reign over new power may change a man. It's best to wait/watch before judging someone, unless you know there has been an exceptionally bad background. To the ones who know him best, I don't care, and the majority of players (all 195,000 or so who don't use the chat or forumsuck) don't either. They play to have fun, I observe and build and destroy.

In this osu! being a "community": I say no. I'm risking my reputable name (what's left of it, what I ever had anyways) by equating this to the Old Order of the French monarchy. There was King Louis XIV (youknowwho), then there iis the first estate, which would be the active BATs (because who really does give a shit about the inactive ones?), and they make a small team of 20 or so, about one-ten-thousandth of a percent of the total population. Then there are the subscribe, to which I approximate to 10,000 (give or take hundreds or thousands, I don't know, peppy has the numbers), .5% - 5%.
Then, there's the average player, making up 99% of us, me included. Download quotas and plenty more the privilege increase, including recognition and some influence, with the rank. It is not easy moving up the ladder as it is in today's society. You have to be able to pay (I have the money, but I CANNOT engage in online transactions), you have to be recognized (regardless of your attitude towards certain people/the public), and you have to be chosen. The odds are very diminutive. More boundaries and more !kills target the majority of us, while some checks in power aren't being checked. I get silenced if I say bullshit on IRC, no one of us non-subscribers can silence anyone above our power, if it is justified. It sickens me, and hampers over crab mentality upon me. This is not a community, this is pre-Enlightenment France, and there are factions within, growing by the day.

In trolling: Sometimes reason comes out of anger, be it sarcastic, cynic, or true.

To paraphrase The Offspring, you're gonna go far apart, kid.

Pasonia wrote:

Spare a thought for the other forumites.
Looks like you got someone representing one faction of "the other forumites".
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
I don't see what subscribers have to do with anything.
K2J
872 posts
Here since the beginning
K2J
I for one haven't seen a sharp spike in preferential treatment in my favor since I got a subscription. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

K2J wrote:

I for one haven't seen a sharp spike in preferential treatment in my favor since I got a subscription. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
You are doing it wrong. Try using your subscription powers to silence ne'er-do-gooders in IRC every once in a while and we, the looming and cold-hearted STAFF may some day consider you to be inducted as one of us.

In other words, subscriptions get you little bonuses that you can live without. I'm not sure why it was raised as an argument regarding administration.
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun
also greenpoint you get silenced/banned because you're an idiot and say stupid shit in IRC (and vent)

subscription has nothing to do with it
gp0_old
174 posts
Joined July 2009
gp0_old

Todesengal wrote:

also greenpoint you get silenced/banned because you're an idiot and say stupid shit in IRC (and vent)

subscription has nothing to do with it
Who's talking?
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,945 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral

strager wrote:

I don't see what subscribers have to do with anything.
lukewarmholiday
2,148 posts
Joined June 2008
lukewarmholiday

Pasonia wrote:

@lukewarm - you must understand that the thread is for discussing a beatmap technique. Uhh, not... like... flaming.
But yea, hopefully with your better judgment you won't do it again. I guess you're the karma for me jacking kingcobra's initiative blind =x

awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
Looks like an Ocarina of Time model animation loop
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,945 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral

awp wrote:

Looks like an Ocarina of Time model animation loop
Now I have the song of storms stuck in my head.

AAAAAAAAA
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun

greenpoint0 wrote:

Todesengal wrote:

also greenpoint you get silenced/banned because you're an idiot and say stupid shit in IRC (and vent)

subscription has nothing to do with it
Who's talking?
I am what's your point
kingcobra52
osu! Alumni
974 posts
Joined May 2008
kingcobra52

awp wrote:

Looks like an Ocarina of Time model animation loop
Actually, it's from Majora's Mask. :P
Pasonia
osu! Alumni
1,199 posts
Joined October 2008
Pasonia
I lol'ed at the anim.

Hopefully he got the idea.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
you know pasonia there is 2 sides to every coin I hope you know that.
That is all.
Real1
968 posts
Joined September 2008
Real1
Ohi drama.

Can I say something?

osu! is an awesome game and it surely has tons of fun maps to play and many great people in the community. Maps have, and always will, vary in quality, and that is what happens with user-based content. To say the quality is going down, I say no. And stop complaining about Pasonia, and instead let's see what he can do and cheer him on.

Just chill people, enjoy this great game and relax.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

kingcobra52 wrote:

awp wrote:

Looks like an Ocarina of Time model animation loop
Actually, it's from Majora's Mask. :P
Really? I couldn't stomach that game so I never made it all the way through but given that Majora's Mask and OoT had the same spirit/engine/technology/whatever I find that very believable.
Torran
724 posts
Joined November 2008
Torran
It's the Happy Mask Salesman!
mtmcl
mtmcl
Sturgeon's Law is bullshit. You know why? Cause everyone who quotes it thinks they are part of the 10% of things that are not crud, just like Theodore Sturgeon. Buck up and get to know people or stfu.
Pokebis
2,047 posts
Joined April 2008
Topic Starter
Pokebis

mtmcl wrote:

Sturgeon's Law is bullshit. You know why? Cause everyone who quotes it thinks they are part of the 10% of things that are not crud, just like Theodore Sturgeon. Buck up and get to know people or stfu.
How does this make the "law" incorrect?
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann

Pokebis wrote:

mtmcl wrote:

Sturgeon's Law is bullshit. You know why? Cause everyone who quotes it thinks they are part of the 10% of things that are not crud, just like Theodore Sturgeon. Buck up and get to know people or stfu.
How does this make the "law" incorrect?
Because in reality, 100% of things are crap

We all just have different levels of tolerance
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
That level of tolerance is on average 10%, I'm guessing?
mtmcl
mtmcl

Pokebis wrote:

mtmcl wrote:

Sturgeon's Law is bullshit. You know why? Cause everyone who quotes it thinks they are part of the 10% of things that are not crud, just like Theodore Sturgeon. Buck up and get to know people or stfu.
How does this make the "law" incorrect?
Why do you put the word "law" in quotes as if it is anything but the pessimistic ramblings of a science fiction author?
EEeee
1,026 posts
Joined July 2008
EEeee
Grats pasonia ^^'
Pokebis
2,047 posts
Joined April 2008
Topic Starter
Pokebis
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
Gravity is a psychological theory.

It's all in your head.

(I love where this thread is going.)
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
Is time not the same?
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,945 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral

Pokebis wrote:

mtmcl wrote:

Why do you put the word "law" in quotes as if it is anything but the pessimistic ramblings of a science fiction author?
Because it's more of a psychological theory. Not a law by definition.
Provide basis for said theory please
Pokebis
2,047 posts
Joined April 2008
Topic Starter
Pokebis

Ephemeral wrote:

Provide basis for said theory please
http://www.google.com/
Pasonia
osu! Alumni
1,199 posts
Joined October 2008
Pasonia
You forgot to specify the keywords.
Sinistro
osu! Alumni
1,412 posts
Joined January 2008
Sinistro
I guess that was intentional; in other words, he's saying that "anything you look up on the Internet is proof".
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
Pasonia is gay.

Source: viewtopic.php?p=245236#p245236
mtmcl
mtmcl

strager wrote:

Pasonia is gay.

Source: viewtopic.php?p=245236#p245236
So how has this not degraded into a flame thread?
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

mtmcl wrote:

strager wrote:

Pasonia is gay.

Source: viewtopic.php?p=245236#p245236
So how has this not degraded into a flame thread?
Because my argument is not baseless.

I have absolute proof.
lukewarmholiday
2,148 posts
Joined June 2008
lukewarmholiday
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann
Don't know quite how to describe what this thread has become, but it certainly isn't a meaningful discussion.

Gonna go ahead and lock it now since anything worthwhile got discussed in the first couple of pages.
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